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Boko Haram Actually Kills More People In Terror Attacks Than ISIS

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Alx

Member
Terrorist groups in history (Red is civilians killed, Yellow is civilians injured)

Terrorism-Activity-Graphs.png


http://terror.periscopic.com/

Maybe it's because I haven't had my morning coffe yet, but I don't understand those entirely. What is the grey-ish part in the middle ?
*edit : nm, had my coffee and could find the info at the source. Not exactly the easiest chart to read though.
 
On another instance a plane carrying weapons from Ukraine to Nigeria was refused over-flight permit by Saudi Arabia, making it harder for those cargo planes to make it to Nigeria.

Looking at a map I can't come up with any flight plan from Ukraine to Nigeria that comes even close to Saudi Arabia.

And speaking of weapon sales to Nigeria...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34855695

Nigeria's President Muhammadu Buhari has ordered the arrest of his predecessor's security adviser, for allegedly stealing some $2bn (£1.3bn).
Sambo Dasuki is accused of awarding phantom contracts to buy 12 helicopters, four fighter jets and ammunition.
 
well its in Africa so the mainstream media doesn't care.

Look at the story of 100's of girls that Boko Haram kidnapped and forced into sexual slavery. It only got any real buzz due to social media and slowly reached the mainstream media. If something like that happened to lets say even 20 Europeans it would of been the biggest news story of the year and the whole world wouldn't of rested until those 20 girls were found a dn the captors killed.
*20 Western Europeans
 

keuja

Member
Yeah why do Western mainstream media whose target audience is westerners gives more coverage to tragedies happening in the West affecting people living in the West ?
No one knows, it's a mystery.
 
Yeah why do Western mainstream media whose target audience is westerners gives more coverage to tragedies happening in the West affecting people living in the West ?
No one knows, it's a mystery.
Why should something that happens in Paris affect me more than something that happens in Africa when I live in Canada?
 
Terrorist groups in history (Red is civilians killed, Yellow is civilians injured)

Terrorism-Activity-Graphs.png


http://terror.periscopic.com/

The 25 groups included here have been active in 73 countries on five continents. Of these, the country targeted by the most groups has been France: Al-Qa`ida, Basque Fatherland and Freedom, Hizballah, The IRA, and the Kurdistan Workers' Party. The group with the greatest geographic spread is Hizballah, responsible for terrorism in 17 countries.

Interesting. I would have thought Al Qaeda would have the widest spread, not Hezbollah. Going by the comments I've read recently here one would thing Islamic terrorism is only a Sunni thing.
 
Oh it gets worse. Where they kidnapped the girls, they straight up kill the boys as to not have any of them grow up and fight them.

Yeah, Boko Haram are fucking terrible. I don't know where people live not to have heard of them but even our dreadful UK news covers stories on them.
 
Yeah. About 95% of my family is from Nigeria and about 40% still live there. Luckily, I've yet to hear about any of them being victims even tangentially from Boko Haram. The reporting just reassures me how little the US cares about Africa. I've literally heard more history about the Middle East just blooming from terrorism and xenophobia from US media than I've heard about Africa in my 27 years alive. It doesn't help that media representation is mostly still huts, tribes, dusty markets and the Savannah. My family still meets people who don't know that Nigeria has bustling cities.

Maybe it's because I haven't had my morning coffe yet, but I don't understand those entirely. What is the grey-ish part in the middle ?

The white spread length-wise is years from 1970 till 2013 and height-wise chunks that make up months of the year. The gray is terroristic incidence which I'm guessing is any kind of attack where people could have died and the red line above would be victims while the yellow would be wounding both over the course of the incidences that occurred that year.year as a result. For example, on the Boko Haram chart, the single light grey square around 2009 in July (I think) mean 10 incidents of terrorism occurred in that month with the red above indicating the victims killed by the incident(s). Darker gray squares means more incidents occurred in that same month, up to 500 from the legend they have on the site.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
If you follow international news services, like BBC World News there were plenty of news over the years about Boko Haram, including extensive documentaries.

Unfortunately the fact that Nigeria, despite being being the richest African country and having a big army, doesn't seem to be able to tackle them (mostly due to the extended corruption) and the fact that its neighbors didn't really care until they were attacked as well made Boko Haram able to do so much damage.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
They are both absolutely evil organizations of murdering monsters that need to be wiped from the surface of the planet.

EDIT: People have actually not heard of them before? They have been in the news quite a bit here in Sweden, although not as frequently as IS.
 

bigjig

Member
Why should something that happens in Paris affect me more than something that happens in Africa when I live in Canada?

Presumably because you're much more likely to want to travel to/do business with Paris/Europe than Africa, and/or have relatives/friends in Europe
 

Herbs

Banned
Yeah why do Western mainstream media whose target audience is westerners gives more coverage to tragedies happening in the West affecting people living in the West ?
No one knows, it's a mystery.

I'm stumped, but seriously, the media is one aspect of this but our lack of political involvement in the happenings of Boko Haram has a great deal to do with it as well. And maybe for once, we are doing the right thing by not engaging in another overseas conflict that we have no stake in. I guess I'm just jaded that way.
 
French Canadians?
Oh yeah.

Presumably because you're much more likely to want to travel to/do business with Paris/Europe than Africa, and/or have relatives/friends in Europe
I can see that. I have family in Tanzania so its sorta close to home.

I can understand why one would get more attention. I get it. I still dont like it. How many people do you see sporting Nigerian flags on their avatars? I just feel like people should have those in Africa who lost their lives in their hearts as much as anyone else.

And just to be clear, its not the amount of attention and support people show for victims of terrorism that are from whi...western countries that bugs me. Its the lack of attention and support our fellow humans are givin in other parts of the world because reasons.

The fact that nobody I spoke to today even knew about the attacks in Nigeria or even who Boko Haram was, kinda just left me feeling like that aint right.
 
but what about our american terrorist where do they rank?
Is it because they don't do it all under a umbrella name?
We should just give them a catch-all group name for the Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Dylan Roof, Timothy McVeigh, Colleen LaRose, Tamerlan Tsarnaev

I think we should call them
The Aristocrats
 

Kinokou

Member
12,000 people died from gun violence in the US in 2013, but I guess people don't care since they mostly weren't killed in terror attacks.

I often think like this as well, right before the terrorist attack in Norway 2011 there was a paper that had written a piece on how many people had died in traffic that year, it was way more but I can no longer recall the exact numbers. The contrast of reactions and assigned importance to the victims of traffic and victims of terrorism is still with me as one of the absurdities of the world.

Looking at a map I can't come up with any flight plan from Ukraine to Nigeria that comes even close to Saudi Arabia.

And speaking of weapon sales to Nigeria...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34855695

Planes rarely fly as the crow flies, air space regulations and such often require them to choose more inefficient paths so I guess that plays into it.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
If you follow international news services, like BBC World News there were plenty of news over the years about Boko Haram, including extensive documentaries.

Unfortunately the fact that Nigeria, despite being being the richest African country and having a big army, doesn't seem to be able to tackle them (mostly due to the extended corruption) and the fact that its neighbors didn't really care until they were attacked as well made Boko Haram able to do so much damage.
This is wrong though Nigeria is actually far more successful in it's campaign against Boko Haram than the west has been against ISIS considering Boko harm controls practically no land in Nigeria, the issue is basically straight up terrorist attacks e.g Paris, which is infinitely more difficult to straight up irradicate.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
This is wrong though Nigeria is actually far more successful in it's campaign against Boko Haram than the west has been against ISIS considering Boko harm controls practically no land in Nigeria, the issue is basically straight up terrorist attacks e.g Paris, which is infinitely more difficult to straight up irradicate.

If Nigeria is more successful then is this thread wrong? If Nigeria is succesful then maybe Western media has nothing dramatic to report about Boko Haram, no?
 

You have to be delusional if you think the response was anywhere close to being the same.

If Nigeria is more successful then is this thread wrong? If Nigeria is succesful then maybe Western media has nothing dramatic to report about Boko Haram, no?

The thread is not wrong in that BH has killed more people, but Principate is also right that Nigeria has been far more successful in its campaign against BH than the west or its allies has been against ISIS. ISIS controls a vast territory in Iraq and Syria, BH no longer does in Nigeria (at one point earlier this year they controlled a massive amount of territory). The mighty power of the West and its allies (plus now Russia and its allies) cant fold back ISIS gains in any significant way but a lone West African power under defacto arms embargo from the West is tearing up shit.
 

linsivvi

Member
If Nigeria is more successful then is this thread wrong? If Nigeria is succesful then maybe Western media has nothing dramatic to report about Boko Haram, no?

Nah that was utter bullshit. Nigeria is failing against Boko Haram in spectacular fashion.

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2015/10/18/Nigerian-general-jailed-for-failing-to-stop-Boko-Haram-raid/5021445216634/
Nigeria sentenced a military general to six months in jail for failing to perform his duties during a Boko Haram assault on the town of Baga early this year.

Baga, in northeastern Nigeria's Borno state, fell to Boko Haram in January when military forces at a nearby base retreated from their positions, allowing the militants to conduct a follow-on attack that resulted in hundreds of deaths and the burning of the town.
The army regained Baga in February after sustaining heavy casualties. Sources vary on the number of people killed; the Nigerian government reports 150, while locals say up to 2,000 are still missing.

The loss is considered the worst inflicted on Nigeria's military by Boko Haram, which has killed an estimated 17,000 people since 2009 in a bid to create an Islamic government in the region.

http://news.yahoo.com/nigeria-pm-blames-corruption-weak-fight-against-boko-100635542.html
Nigerian troops were denied weapons to fight Boko Haram and thousands of lives were lost because of rampant fraud in the procurement process, President Muhammadu Buhari has alleged.

Buhari ordered anyone involved in corrupt multi-billion dollar deals for weapons and equipment to be "brought to book" after receiving a report from a committee set up to probe the issue.

Former national security advisor Sambo Dasuki is accused of awarding some $2 billion in "fictitious and phantom contracts" for fighter jets, helicopters and bombs that never materialised.
 

KodaRuss

Member
I agree that this wasn't covered as heavily as it would be if it were in a white country but this was a very big deal when it happened. I remember multiple news stories about it. What has been done? Not much. What can we do? Send in a joint force military? Pretty sure no one has the appetite for that right now.
 
Just shows how incompetent the people in charge of these security services are.

4 Hour tip off to secure the place, fuck all happens.

Paris got warned twice about one of the suspects involved in the attacks - didn't act on it.

Incredible, really.

What were those warnings? If it was "there are chances that sometime somewhere an attack will probably occur", what could they have done better than what they did?
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
well its in Africa so the mainstream media doesn't care.
It's a little more complicated than that. The Kenyan Mall shootings were big news, for example. I think it is mainly that groups like BH are seen as internal conflicts, that are considered the sovereign nations problem. It's only when western countries have a vested interest in the government of the region that people show major interest. Even still ISIS atrocities within the middle east get minimal coverage, it's the terrorist acts aimed at the West and the sense that they are expanding their influence.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
I often think like this as well, right before the terrorist attack in Norway 2011 there was a paper that had written a piece on how many people had died in traffic that year, it was way more but I can no longer recall the exact numbers. The contrast of reactions and assigned importance to the victims of traffic and victims of terrorism is still with me as one of the absurdities of the world.

Really? People who die in traffic generally do so because of accidents. It's sad, but there's usually nobody to be angry with, really. Terrorist attacks are murder; evil, vile human beings deliberately slaughtering innocent people. And you think the contrast of reactions is absurd?
 

linsivvi

Member
Please provide territories that BH controls in Nigeria.

Why must territories be the measurement used?

Losing 17K people in your own country and failing to sufficiently arm your own army is what I would consider utter failure.

This:
President Muhammadu Buhari fired all Nigeria’s military leadership in a rebuke for their inability to stop the Islamist group’s latest spate of deadly attacks.

is evidence of failure.

Shrug.
 

Keri

Member
Western media cares about the terrorist organizations that are directly threatening western nations. The Paris attack got more coverage, because it was an organized attack outside the traditional "territory" of ISIS and directed towards a western nation. That is much more likely to have an effect on other western nations, because it reminds us that the same can happen in our countries. A terrorist organization that is limited to a specific area, isn't going to get much attention from outside nations.
 

Red Hood

Banned
lol, who cares? that happens in Africa, nobody cares about that. We all know one western life equals to around 20 non-western ones.

says the majority of the west
 

AxelFoley

Member
well its in Africa so the mainstream media doesn't care.

Look at the story of 100's of girls that Boko Haram kidnapped and forced into sexual slavery. It only got any real buzz due to social media and slowly reached the mainstream media. If something like that happened to lets say even 20 Europeans it would of been the biggest news story of the year and the whole world wouldn't of rested until those 20 girls were found a dn the captors killed.


Summed it up.
 
there are a bunch of deaths that happen in Africa, genocides, and chaos but it isn't strategically important (for now) so we don't get a ton of media coverage about it.
 

ReAxion

Member
well its in Africa so the mainstream media doesn't care.

Look at the story of 100's of girls that Boko Haram kidnapped and forced into sexual slavery. It only got any real buzz due to social media and slowly reached the mainstream media. If something like that happened to lets say even 20 Europeans it would of been the biggest news story of the year and the whole world wouldn't of rested until those 20 girls were found a dn the captors killed.

In this example, mainstream media is to blame, but in your example, the audience is to blame. This is covered all the time and the audience doesn't give a shit. You don't even care enough to see how much coverage Boko Haram actually given.
 
Why must territories be the measurement used?

Losing 17K people in your own country and failing to sufficiently arm your own army is what I would consider utter failure.

This:


is evidence of failure.

Shrug.

Nigeria has failed miserably on various accounts over the last few years, but yes i used territories because up until now it was the measure everyone was using to slap Nigeria as a whole in the face with. Well the Nigerian military with the help absolutely no one, under an unofficial arms embargo, retook all territories it lost to Boko Haram and has kept it since.

Many countries (led by US ofcourse) were ridiculing Nigeria and saying that Nigeria will split and become a failed state in 2015 because of Boko Haram, when Nigeria started retaking all that territories those same countries claimed that it wasn't really Nigeria recording those successes, that it was Chad and Niger and Cameroon and ofourse the "white saviour" mercenaries. Now that Nigeria has retaken all that territory its no longer used as a measure, it has shifted to the killings.

I can't fault you in saying that the deaths of so much people is a failure on the governments part, because it is.But it could have been much much worse, we aren't Iraq by a massive margin. Also mind you that while the death count in Nigeria might be higher our population is 5 times larger than Iraq's and 3 times larger than Iraq and Syria combined, also the attacks in Nigeria don't affect any place of economic importance, its limited to remote regions for the most part so we are still better off than most middle eastern countries.
 
Boko Haram = Local attacks

ISIS = International attacks

of course ISIS is gonna get more coverage....

Whats considered local and international? and when did ISIS start international attacks? last i checked BH was pulling attacks in Nigeria, Cameroon, Chad, and Niger, though i guess Africa is local.
 

Daria

Member
Boko Haram = Local attacks

ISIS = International attacks

of course ISIS is gonna get more coverage....

So, because the Boko Haram attacks are local, that means they shouldn't be more widely covered by media? Paris was an international attack and that was covered in the US. Does Nigeria not get classified as international as well?

This isn't a dick measuring contest on who does what because in the end it is all terrorism and innocent people are getting killed. Stay out of this thread if you don't have anything relatively productive to talk about.
 
And this always stuck with me. In a white, Western dominated world. What do they care that a bunch of Africans are killing themselves? Africans who don't have the resources, economic power, or political will to inflict change? We discussed this once in a sociology class, how white people even are afraid to intervene because they are afraid to seem racist or as imperialists. They are quick to criticize only themselves but afraid to criticize others. India reverses it's laws on LGBT rights, not a peep from the western world. White Russia introduces new laws targeting LGBT rights, let's boycott Russia, fire up the B2 stealths, where are sanctions. Japan doesn't want Syrian refugees, aside from a little criticism, not much. Hungary's PM says we don't want Muslim refugees or another country puts up a border fence, 'the Nazi's are back, let's kick these people out of the EU'.

It's interesting how in Africa, the western countries that intervene are typically the ex-colonial powers in that region - the UK in Sierra Leone, France in Mali, Belgium in the Congo etc.
 

linsivvi

Member
I can't fault you in saying that the deaths of so much people is a failure on the governments part, because it is.But it could have been much much worse, we aren't Iraq by a massive margin. Also mind you that while the death count in Nigeria might be higher our population is 5 times larger than Iraq's and 3 times larger than Iraq and Syria combined, also the attacks in Nigeria don't affect any place of economic importance, its limited to remote regions for the most part so we are still better off than most middle eastern countries.

Iraq and Syria and terrible comparisons. Iraq was invaded, army disbanded and the entire nation was rebuilt from scratch. Syria is in a civil war and being used as a proxy battlefield between several powerful countries.

None of these happened in Nigeria.
 
Iraq and Syria and terrible comparisons. Iraq was invaded, army disbanded and the entire nation was rebuilt from scratch. Syria is in a civil war and being used as a proxy battlefield between several powerful countries.

None of these happened in Nigeria.

Neither is Iraq or Syria akin to Nigeria, the whole reason i made the comparison is to show you how unlike them we are. If you are saying that it is understandable that terrorism flourishes there, then sure, but then are you saying it isn't understandable as to why there is terrorism in Nigeria?. Because if so then i will tell you to read up on Nigeria's history with BH and also the recent collapse of a little country in North Africa called Libya.
 

linsivvi

Member
Neither is Iraq or Syria akin to Nigeria, the whole reason i made the comparison is to show you how unlike them we are. If you are saying that it is understandable that terrorism flourishes there, then sure, but then are you saying it isn't understandable as to why there is terrorism in Nigeria?. Because if so then i will tell you to read up on Nigeria's history with BH and also the recent collapse of a little country in North Africa called Libya.

I never said anything remotely like that. Please do not put words in my mouth.

I am merely saying that this:

This is wrong though Nigeria is actually far more successful in it's campaign against Boko Haram than the west has been against ISIS

is a terrible comparison because the situation is very different.

Both have failed spectacularly, but for different reasons.
 
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