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[Dambrosi]

In this case, there would be some shenanigans for sure. I expect the Conservatives would engineer a no-confidence vote against their own government, leaving Corbyn with the impossible decision between (a) facing a General Election in which he will be absolutely tonked and (b) having to propose a vote of confidence in a Conservative government in order to avoid (a) ... and then him being expelled from his own Labour Party because of doing (b).

Or some similar permutation.

Your scenario doesn't include the (unlikely, but delicious) possibility of the Conservatives tearing themselves asunder in the process, nor does it include the (slightly more likely) possibility of former Tories leaving UKIP and returning to the nest, creating further tension and conflict within. The Tories may win any new election, but they won't be able to catch a break Europe-wise (if Remain wins).

Let me dream, even if only for a moment.

It just seems to be people laughing at Mensch again.

As far as I know, content claiming on Youtube is automatic, so I doubt the BBC had anything to do with it (as in, any actual intent).

 

[Tak3n]

It just seems to be people laughing at Mensch again.

yeah, so take it as such, I am sure the BBC pulled it for good reason, after all it is their content

 

[PJV3]

yeah, so take it as such, I am sure the BBC pulled it for good reason, after all it is their content

It's the programme maker saying it's available on iPlayer, and then laughing at Mensch.

 

[Jezbollah]

Also consider that there are external companies who content providers pay to automatically detect and claim for copyright infringement videos on Youtube.

 

[Tak3n]

well this put the Turkey argument to bed then

Turkish border guards have shot dead at least eight Syrians, including four children, who were trying to cross into Turkey, activists say.
A further eight people were injured, said the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based monitoring group.
It happened at a border crossing north of the Syrian town of Jisr al-Shugour, which is controlled by jihadist groups.
The Turkish military insists guards fired only warning shots and that the Syrians dispersed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36570890

 

[jufonuk]

It looks like this will very much be the case.

I spent most of yesterday at a barbeque (they live in Bromley). Also had a few friends from Maidstone around too. They were all talking about the massive Vote Leave displays from so many house windows and on roadsides, and the anti-EU feeling they got in general.

I will be surprised if Remain get 30% of the vote there to be honest.

even in Bromley? flipping hell. :/ wonder is Chislehurst will be a leave too?

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

In this case, there would be some shenanigans for sure. I expect the Conservatives would engineer a no-confidence vote against their own government, leaving Corbyn with the impossible decision between (a) facing a General Election in which he will be absolutely tonked and (b) having to propose a vote of confidence in a Conservative government in order to avoid (a) ... and then him being expelled from his own Labour Party because of doing (b).

Or some similar permutation.

Then watch as Chuka Umunna rises from the ashes to lead Neo-New Labour into a glorious 2020 victory.

Spoiler

I actually have no idea how the Labour or Conservative leadership will look at the next election, which is both exhilarating and terrifying.

 

[phisheep]

So far in this thread I've posted about the grass and the fence, the scary process of leaving, the positives of being in the EU, who is being ignored, an argument for Brexit, the need for a warm coat, democracy, perverse incentives, the US media, when the EU gets it wrong, the ECHR, the secession of London, other sources of information, the self-employed working class, how to not be rude to the French and still win, the EEA and EFTA, candy, civil servants and immigration, political upheaval, immigration and prejudice, inconsistency in the Leave message, the weather, EU expansion and German reunification, Labour strategy, getting out now before it is too late, John Donne's sermons and the Prisoner's Dilemma and democracy again.

And there's still four days to go. Here's an argument for the broader reaches of history.

We've fought for the freedom and prosperity of Europe. Twice in the last century and once in the century before that. Each time the price was paid in cash and blood. This time it's cash only, which in comparison sounds like a really good deal.

It is in our interests that the rest of Europe, all of it, prospers. And that includes the poorer nations to the east. Sure, it'll take time. It'll take commitment. It'll take putting up with some regulation that maybe we'd rather not have. It'll take having immigrant workers here sending money back to their own countries, because that's the way these things work. That's still not a bad price.

Quite possibly exactly the same sort of thing happened in your own family histories. I have family who immigrated from Ireland in the mid 19th century, from Yorkshire to Lancashire in the late 19th century, from there to Wales in the early 20th century - all of them living poor but and earning and saving. Let others do the same.

EDIT: Forgot to mention - Vote Remain!

Your scenario doesn't include the (unlikely, but delicious) possibility of the Conservatives tearing themselves asunder in the process, nor does it include the (slightly more likely) possibility of former Tories leaving UKIP and returning to the nest, creating further tension and conflict within. The Tories may win any new election, but they won't be able to catch a break Europe-wise (if Remain wins).

Let me dream, even if only for a moment.

Then watch as Chuka Umunna rises from the ashes to lead Neo-New Labour into a glorious 2020 victory.

I actually have no idea how the Labour or Conservative leadership will look at the next election, which is both exhilarating and terrifying.

Yep, the permutations are legion. The terrifying bit is spot-on. Exhilarating? Maybe. Depends a bit who blinks first.

 

[8bit]

Then watch as Chuka Umunna rises from the ashes to lead Neo-New Labour into a glorious 2020 victory.

Spoiler

I actually have no idea how the Labour or Conservative leadership will look at the next election, which is both exhilarating and terrifying.

I think Action Dan is waiting in the wings until this political generation sputters out.

 

[PJV3]

Corbyn will continue to have ok but a little disappointing results, UKIP a load return to the Tories pushing it rightwards on social issues, Libdems start to rebound picking up unhappy Tories and marginals.

Farage gets a TV show on cable that is funded by an EU grant.

 

[Kathian]

Leave ad on STV was honestly terrible. If this is their final push I expect them to lose.

Suggesting they'll be creating some sort of glorious utopia.

Edit: also breaking point statement being used again. Ill thought out.

 

[Beefy]

Osborne has called for each side to tone down the amount of fear etc according to Sky....

 

[Dambrosi]

Osborne has called for each side to tone down the amount of fear etc according to Sky....

Haaaaaah. The absolute nerve.

 

[Beefy]

Fuck, the host on Question Time just called some one Jo Cox by mistake.

 

[Tak3n]

surely if the question time audience has any skill tonight

who is right Mr Cameron on immigration, you or Mr Corbyn?

 

[Mr Cola]

It would earn Cameron alot of respect from me if he did a mea culpa about the campaign, or at least acknowledged how bad its been fought on his side as well as the others.

 

[Azoor]

Not a Brit, but doesn't the UK benefit greatly from the EU research fund ? If the UK exited the EU wouldn't that negatively affect them ?

 

[Mr Cola]

Not a Brit, but doesn't the UK benefit greatly from the EU research fund ? If the UK exited the EU wouldn't that negatively affect them ?

The argument Gove made is that a vast majority of the money institutions receive is actually the money we send that is then sent back to us.

 

[phisheep]

Not a Brit, but doesn't the UK benefit greatly from the EU research fund ? If the UK exited the EU wouldn't that negatively affect them ?

Quite possibly, but it is nowhere near the top of the list of things being discussed. Not even on the list.

 

[Moosichu]

Not a Brit, but doesn't the UK benefit greatly from the EU research fund ? If the UK exited the EU wouldn't that negatively affect them ?

Yes. Academic research here wouldn't be helped.

Switzerland is a good example:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...nt-become-switzerland-swiss-academics-tell-uk

Quite possibly, but it is nowhere near the top of the list of things being discussed. Not even on the list.

Even though it arguably really should be!

 

[Burai]

Boris Johnson in paper this morning

Sorry Boris, under what jurisdiction are you going to do those things? Last thing I knew you weren't a cabinet member.

That's the biggest issue I've had with the Leave campaign; So many things promised by people who don't have the power to make them happen.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Fuck, the host on Question Time just called some one Jo Cox by mistake.

That was a horrible mistake, yikes.

 

[Azoor]

Yes. Academic research here wouldn't be helped.

Switzerland is a good example:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...nt-become-switzerland-swiss-academics-tell-uk



Even though it arguably really should be!

Indeed, The UK is a leading country in science research and it'll be a shame if it go a serious financial hit.

 

[Beefy]

Cameron is so bad at answering questions.

 

[Mr Cola]

Interesting that he seemed to concede that point about the message not getting across and Brexit making a claim to win.

And yet his tactic is to reiterate the same arguments.

 

[Tak3n]

Cameron is so bad at answering questions.

clearly been briefed to keep mentioning experts

 

[Jackpot]

The argument Gove made is that a vast majority of the money institutions receive is actually the money we send that is then sent back to us.

The majority of grants in my dept, and most definitely the largest ones, all come from the EU. The idea that it'd all be replaced with millions by our gov is laughable. An entire continent of researchers, and we'd instantly be the lesser choice for all of them because people don't know all the stuff the EU does for them and hate immigrants.

 

[Mr Cola]

"I dont want to baffle you with statistics" is not a good line D:

 

[Jasup]

Not a Brit, but doesn't the UK benefit greatly from the EU research fund ? If the UK exited the EU wouldn't that negatively affect them ?

I posted these videos earlier. The EU research fund is only one part of the issue. EU brings with it other advantages that surpass the funding by a huge amount. It breaks unnecessary bureaucracy of building beneficial collaborations for example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBHPot8k4h0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfef9oKDz80

 

[Tak3n]

Fuck me

Gove admits immigration will go up if leave wins for the future...

Cameron, still rolls the same line.... rest of EU will catch up, did not even answer the question about his immigration figures

 

[IdreamofHIME]

"How can we believe them?!"

Christ man, get your xenophobia in check.

 

[Mr Cola]

Gaaaahhh Cameron why cant you answer a question

 

[Mr. Sam]

Cameron being caught between the "Why can't we be more generous to immigrants?" and "Why can't we throw immigrants into the sea?" crowds.

 

[Uzzy]

Time to break out Churchill.

 

[DiGiKerot]

"I dont want to baffle you with statistics" is not a good line D:

To be fair, the guy didn't seem to understand how percentages work.

 

[D4Danger]

But what would you do in 30 years?

This is ridiculous

 

[Mr. Sam]

Time to break out Churchill.

You need the lowest common denominator. I'm surprised a huge union flag didn't suddenly unfurl in the background.

To be fair, the guy didn't seem to understand how percentages work.

It did seem like an actually quite brilliant covert insult.

 

[Tregard]

The audience jeering at other audience members is really ugly

 

[Mr Cola]

The audience jeering at other audience members is really ugly

Well when the precedent for debate in our country is PMQ's then its all a farce

 

[Hasney]

Cameron goes straight to the ladies #Playa

 

[jelly]

Thought Cameron did pretty well there. Message was quite clear. Hope it works.

 

[Jackpot]

The audience jeering at other audience members is really ugly

Audience participation is always a bad thing. Even Jack Dee's decision comedy thing is unwatchable because of it.

 

[Tak3n]

so if you believe the Jo Cox murder has influenced a boost for remain, will that ethos carry on to polling day?

 

[EdwardTeach]

Not a Brit, but doesn't the UK benefit greatly from the EU research fund ? If the UK exited the EU wouldn't that negatively affect them ?

It all falls under the fact that we are a massive net contributer. We give them lots of money, and they give some of our back. EU research grants are part of this,but there is no reason why research funding wouldn't be maintained at similar levels post Brexit.

 

[Hasney]

so if you believe the Jo Cox murder has influenced a boost for remain, will that ethos carry on to polling day?

Yes, because I don't believe it's all due to that murdering cunt. I agree with what was said on UK Polling Report.

Like the Survation poll in the Mail on Sunday, YouGov in the Sunday Times show Remain ahead again following the pro-Leave polls a week ago. Topline figures are REMAIN 44%, LEAVE 43%, with fieldwork conducted on Thursday and Friday (full tabs are here). Almost inevitably people are going to look at these polls and assume that the murder of Jo Cox on Thursday has caused the move back towards remain.

My own view is that Jo Cox’s death probably isn’t the cause of the reverse. YouGov also conducted a poll on Wednesday-Thursday for ITV, and that already showed Leave’s lead falling (and indeed, a third of the fieldwork for this poll was conducted before Jo Cox’s death was announced). Looking at the rest of the questions, there is also a marked shift in people’s views on how they think leaving the EU would impact their finances – 33% of people now think that they would be worse off outside the EU, compared to 23% a fortnight ago.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9720

 

[jelly]

https://m.facebook.com/martin.fletcher.3998/posts/10154422902371062

Interesting.

 

[Beefy]

Cameron did okish at the end. But still hardly answers anything. He still doesn't come off as trustworthy either.

 

[Undead]

so if you believe the Jo Cox murder has influenced a boost for remain, will that ethos carry on to polling day?

I'm not sure that's going to affect it too much, sure there will be some influence but the biggest change will be people getting cold feet when they actually get to the polls and realise they are literally going to be taking a gamble on not only their future but their kid's as well.
people generally don't like to gamble with their futures, especially when it's almost guaranteed that there will be a long period of hard times, 2008 is still fresh.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Not a Brit, but doesn't the UK benefit greatly from the EU research fund ? If the UK exited the EU wouldn't that negatively affect them ?

The real advantage to being in the EU for research isn't really so much to do with the funding as much as how easy being part of the EU makes collaborative works between groups and labs across the continent.

 

[Jasup]

It all falls under the fact that we are a massive net contributer. We give them lots of money, and they give some of our back. EU research grants are part of this,but there is no reason why research funding wouldn't be maintained at similar levels post Brexit.

Yes, that's one part of it. But beyond the funding the EU has an extra value of having the infrastructure for multinational collaboration mostly in place, which is vital for current cutting edge research.