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Buffy The Vampire Slayer / Angel Official Discussion Thread.
- Thread starter StalkerUKCG
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brianjones
Member
yeah i didnt wanna say anything
also the sister is hinted at a few times before season 5
remember the vision of buffy and faith making the bed
"little sister is coming"
User 100115
Banned
And Tara in Restless with her 'Be back before Dawn.'
User 100115
Banned
Isn't it glorious?
Henchmen21
Banned
Yeah you got it spot on before you even knew.
edit: it's sad really. They were both good shows but had so many bad missteps. Dawn should never have happened. Connor should never have happened.
Dawn works out okay, in my opinion. I liked season 5 quite a bit, probably despite her, and she's one of the few characters I don't hate in season 7.
Connor's not a bad idea either, just poorly implemented in Season 4.
katsubento
Member
I Will Remember You was the one
where Angel became human and he and Buffy could be together.
User 100115
Banned
Meh.
The Body wins that category, hands down. I thought IWRY was too...fluffy and unrealistic.
The Body nearly broke me. There was some bold direction in that episode, and all the little details really made it feel realistic.
I'm telling you, the real Vegeta shows up in Season 7.
He's really getting Majin Vegeta'd as we speak.
Dawn is Gohan.
I think about how awesome that ripper spin off show would have been and then I get sad.let's be sad together guys.
Such sadness
When ripper
smothers ben and says something like "Buffy couldn't take a human life she's not like us"
CharminUltra
Member
Hey all,
SO, since Breaking Bad is over, I'm watching Buffy next. Well, to be honest, I will most likely watch season 1 first and then alternate with other shows UNLESS the show is so good I just can't resist it and I'm forced to watch the whole thing.
Any suggestions or anything I should be aware of before I begin? I mean, aside from "Avoid this thread b/c of spoilers!". I know Angel is a Buffy spinoff, but what about the comics? Do those take place after the show? Before? In between? Is there a special "order of episodes/season" I should follow instead of watching each consecutive season in order?
Thanks in advance!
EDIT: Edited a few things in my post.
SO, since Breaking Bad is over, I'm watching Buffy next. Well, to be honest, I will most likely watch season 1 first and then alternate with other shows UNLESS the show is so good I just can't resist it and I'm forced to watch the whole thing.
Any suggestions or anything I should be aware of before I begin? I mean, aside from "Avoid this thread b/c of spoilers!". I know Angel is a Buffy spinoff, but what about the comics? Do those take place after the show? Before? In between? Is there a special "order of episodes/season" I should follow instead of watching each consecutive season in order?
Thanks in advance!
EDIT: Edited a few things in my post.
I've been watching Buffy myself recently. I'm sad I didn't watch it during its initial run (I avoided it since I couldn't stand the movie), since I was of the appropriate age and interest at the time to have enjoyed the show, but it's still fun and a bit of a blast from the past.
Season 5 was my favorite. Now I'm watching season 6 and it's almost unbearable.
Season 5 was my favorite. Now I'm watching season 6 and it's almost unbearable.
brianjones
Member
what dont you like it about?
i actually cant remember much about it other than
buffy coming back to life
im on season 5 on my rewatch.. its interesting reading imdb reviews for season 5 episodes saying this was the season the show jumped the shark
even though season 4 just happened
granted season 5 doesnt start mindblowing but it ends well
"restless" is so fucking good.. its one of those episodes that really elevates the show from itself
ive always loved well done dream episodes.. sopranos has some of my favorite .. and of course twin peaks
I kind of feel like it's ruining my favorite characters. Like they couldn't think of anything else to use in creating conflict so they just decided to throw these characters under the bus. I hope they get redeemed in some fashion later...
umop_3pisdn
Member
Dawn is like a hundred times more likable and better executed than Connor though.
Is Connor a season 7 guy?
umop_3pisdn
Member
Oh, no, sorry. I just mean in terms of introducing a younger new character Dawn was actually done rather well. It's kind of the territory with those types of characters to disrupt the previously established dynamic of the show, and shift the focus to them, so considering that that's pretty unavoidable I actually didn't hate Dawn.
All the below is spoiler free. Basically just a guide to the seasons, and what to expect in terms of quality and tone as you go through the show.
Season 1 is a totally different experience from watching the rest of the show. It's less serious, somewhat less serialized, lower budget, and more primitive. Luckily it's only half as long as the other seasons, and It can still be fun, as long as you know what to expect. Many of the episodes are very cheesy (even by Buffy standards), but most of the basic elements that make the show great are already there in embryonic form. Think of it as a much lower budget, cheesier proof of concept. The relative innocence of season one provides a great contrast to the later seasons when stuff gets much more serious.
Season 2 is where the show first starts to fully develop its real style. The overall story of season 2 is one of the best, and after you finish the season you will almost certainly be hooked. But there are still several terrible stand alone episodes, and there are a couple of real shitty ones in a row right after a pivotal moment that interrupt the flow of the season very badly.
Season 3 is my favorite season of a TV show ever. It has no flaws. Every single episode is excellent. The main villain is the best in the series.
Season 4 is almost universally regarded as the worst, so don't lose heart and start to worry that the show is going downhill, because you're actually hitting bottom, and there is plenty more good stuff to come. There are some great episodes in season 4, and it is actually quite watchable by the standards of most TV shows (it's leagues better than every recent season of Supernatural for example). I honestly had fun with it, but it is a big let down after seasons 2 and 3. Some important character development occurs during season 4, so I wouldn't advise skipping it, regardless of how you feel about it.
Season 5 is not quite as flaw free as 3, but is still mind-blowing, and easily my second favorite season. Almost every episode is excellent and the overall storyline is amazing.
Season 6 is really dark. I sometimes I enjoy it a lot, sometimes I find it exhausting. I'm doing another rewatch of the show right now, and I'm really enjoying 6 on this particular run through quite a lot, but I am skipping some of the more stand-alone episodes this time. This is probably the most divisive season among fans. There are some people that hate this season with a passion and almost as many who think it's among the best. I've waffled a bit on it, but overall I'm in the latter category. I think it is probably the third best season.
Season 7 has a fantastic conclusion, several great episodes, and a lot of genuine tension throughout, but there are a few annoying new characters that are particularly exhausting during a stretch of early episodes. I was fairly disappointed with 7 on my first watch (except for the last 4 or 5 episodes, which were always fantastic) but I like it more with each rewatch. At this point I think I like it about as well as season 2, which means I like it pretty darn well.
The comics came after the show. Almost every fan I've ever talked to hates them with a passion. They break everything about the show. You can (and should) ignore them.
Watch the seasons in order. If you skip a season, skip 4, but i would advise you not to skip any season.
Dawn is a well written character because they got me to dislike her, I felt like that was intentional.
User 100115
Banned
I would HIGHLY recommend sticking around for at least season two, episode 3 before you decide. That's generally regarded as when the series decided to take off and never look back. Season one is great, but it was very very low budget, and had a lot of cheese. If you absolutely can't stand it, watch the first episode, and the last episode, and then start season 2, and decide after that
Just talking about my opinion on the general theme of the season, no spoilers, but spoiler tagging just in case:
I think, personally, that they decided to remind us that humans can be monsters too, and sometimes even more monstrous than the actual monsters. And that everyone, even the good guys, can stumble and have set backs. I felt it was bold choice.
I've heard bad things about the Buffy comics, but are the Angel comics worth reading?
Yeah, and in the case of Willow, they had slowly been building up for it for a while.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
The first arc is, as it's a solid continuation from the final episode. I lost interest in them shortly after that wrapped up, though.
Buffy and Angel have some episodes that go together. Nothing too intertwined but there's that. Plenty of episodes in both are skippable too if you only want to focus on the overarching plot of the seasons. But the side episodes make the shows worthwhile.
Right. There are a couple instances (in 4th season of Buffy/1st of Angel and in the 7th season of Buffy/4th of Angel) where a character goes from one series to the other, so it's best to see those parts in the right order. Other than that, they each are pretty separate.
I knew Dawn was from some kind of Nickelodeon shit, turns out she was.
I was gonna watch Angel next, but I do not like Angel, and I'm not willing to sit through 5 seasons of watching him on screen.
For me this show is meh, but it is very important to me. I'm speaking from only being on episode 4 of season 7, so I'm almost done now. Most of the episodes are kind of filler with a few drops of story arch poured in. Then in the last 5-6 episodes the season start to focus on the main season arch which is cool. Season 4 seemed to have less random storylines than other seasons. I really like Willow and Xander, I don't like any of the other characters.
I liked Spike a lot when he was first introduced, and started to dislike him when Buffy and him became a thing. I understand at the time this was created, and the channel it was on, 22 episodes per season might have been necessary. A lot of the guts could easily be cut out to only make this show like 4 seasons. I can't believe I actually got to season 7 without skipping anything, because I fucking wanted to.
I was gonna watch Angel next, but I do not like Angel, and I'm not willing to sit through 5 seasons of watching him on screen.
For me this show is meh, but it is very important to me. I'm speaking from only being on episode 4 of season 7, so I'm almost done now. Most of the episodes are kind of filler with a few drops of story arch poured in. Then in the last 5-6 episodes the season start to focus on the main season arch which is cool. Season 4 seemed to have less random storylines than other seasons. I really like Willow and Xander, I don't like any of the other characters.
I liked Spike a lot when he was first introduced, and started to dislike him when Buffy and him became a thing. I understand at the time this was created, and the channel it was on, 22 episodes per season might have been necessary. A lot of the guts could easily be cut out to only make this show like 4 seasons. I can't believe I actually got to season 7 without skipping anything, because I fucking wanted to.
I had the same thought prior to watching Angel. Watch it anyway. Pretty much every character that moves from Buffy to Angel, including Angel, is much better on the latter.
I hated Angel in Buffy, and I grew to love him because of Angel. Watch it!
BaronLundi
Member
Same. Hated Angel in Buffy. Loved the series (not the first season though).
Especially Wesley. Favorite character by far in the whole Buffyverse.
Watching him in Buffy S3 and then in the last episodes of Angel you could believe it was the same actor playing two characters, but his evolution was both logical and believable.
brianjones
Member
you guys didn't like angelus in Buffy?
User 100115
Banned
Angel is annoying as hell on Buffy (unless he's evil).
On his own show, he's much better. Angel is an AMAZING show. Barring a serious stumble when one of the actresses got pregnant and fell seriously ill (and the plot suffered, OMG did it suffer), it's all around a joy. A much more adult, darker version of Buffy.
Finish season seven, and then maybe we can convince you
brianjones
Member
was talking about when he was evil in season 3
i thought he was hilarious
season 2 my bad
Angel turning evil made Season 2 of Buffy.
In Season 3, wasn't he just pretending to be evil to fool Faith?
He actually develops a likeable personality pretty early in the show and just becomes more likeable (and funny) throughout the series.
brianjones
Member
yeah season 2
also "eternal" is one of the best episodes of s1 angel just cause of angelus as well
also "eternal" is one of the best episodes of s1 angel just cause of angelus as well
User 100115
Banned
The one scene in the history of anything that never fails to make me giggle.
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