LabouredSubterfuge
Member
Mr. B Natural said:
Which is why I had a 'Licence to Kill' only policy whenever I played.
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Bullet Sponges - Which Games Are the Worst Offenders?
- Thread starter Guevara
- Start date
Which is why I had a 'Licence to Kill' only policy whenever I played.
Neuromancer
Member
I know a lot of people complained about the amount of damage you (and everyone else) could take in Section 8, but that was balanced between shields and armor and was a big part of the game's strategy.
fastford58
Member
Yeef said:
I knew I wasn't smoking crack. I was crucified by the UDF for criticizing the hit detection in this game.
I dont think anything is wrong with bullet sponges...not everything needs to be hyper-realistic. Just about everything was a bullet sponge back in the old days :/
I miss those days....
Super hard bosses that are 10 times bigger than you and have 10 times as much health/energy...and you're sitting there like "how the hell am I going to pull this off?!?!?!" Yet, somehow you do! I'm tired of all this pop-3-shots-and-you're-dead gameplay. It's BS. YES, even in multiplayer!
Also, why does there NEED to be a reason as to why enemies have more health than the avg person? It's a video game, it doesnt really need a reason. It's funny how there are people that absolutely hate 'bullet sponges' but apparently, if there's a good reason for it then it's ok? Just because there's a 'fictional reason' as to why characters have more health (energy shields)...means that you're fine and dandy with it, even though you dont like bullet sponges?
I miss those days....
Super hard bosses that are 10 times bigger than you and have 10 times as much health/energy...and you're sitting there like "how the hell am I going to pull this off?!?!?!" Yet, somehow you do! I'm tired of all this pop-3-shots-and-you're-dead gameplay. It's BS. YES, even in multiplayer!
Also, why does there NEED to be a reason as to why enemies have more health than the avg person? It's a video game, it doesnt really need a reason. It's funny how there are people that absolutely hate 'bullet sponges' but apparently, if there's a good reason for it then it's ok? Just because there's a 'fictional reason' as to why characters have more health (energy shields)...means that you're fine and dandy with it, even though you dont like bullet sponges?
Dr Frasier Crane
Member
Resistance 2 Co-Op. I mean I'm shooting a Gatling Gun directly at a Chimera and it takes a while to die.
I mean in it's face.
In it's fucking face.
It should just be a bloody rag of tissue attached to the neck.
I mean in it's face.
In it's fucking face.
It should just be a bloody rag of tissue attached to the neck.
My experience was the opposite. The guns were powerful, but you just needed to manage the recoil. If you were just pushing the shoot button down I guess it might seem like the enemies were bullet sponges, but in reality it was because you weren't hitting anything. You had to do bursts of fire, and then enemies dropped like apples. I really enjoyed the gunplay for this. I think in the beginning I took out a group of military with the pistol and got some decent equipment and guns from the start.Backfoggen said:
The Ratchet & Clank series is pretty terrible about this. There was a part in... I think it was the second one, where you had to wander around a gigantic icy field to find some stuff, and some yetis would occasionally pop up. Just one of these yetis took half the ammo of my most powerful gun, which was, at that point, a rocket launcher that shot five homing rockets for each round. Not to mention my weaker guns, some of which couldn't take down a yeti with all of its ammo. And this field was full of them. I had to constantly jet back to a shop to restock on ammo.
sixteen-bit
Member
Gears of War, especially Horde mode
Devil May Cry
Devil May Cry
electroshockwave
Member
Having just played through it again recently I think GTA IV qualifies for this as far as body shots are concerned. Shotguns especially feel really weak at anything other than point blank range.
rollingstart
Banned
Black on PS2/Xbox is maybe the worst offender. For a game that is explosive and has weapons that look, sound, and feel powerful, when it comes time to use them against an enemy you might as well break out a super soaker or pellet gun. If enemies dropped quicker in that game, I would have liked it so much more.
The idea in general is one that really annoys me. It makes sense in some games, like Bioshock where you have powers and objects in he environment that can do more damage, or games with rpg elements like Mass Effect 2, or games where it only appears they have a huge health bar until you figure out a trick to taking them down like Halo. But for games like Gears, Black, Uncharted 1, and to a lesser degree the games previously mentioned, it is just annoying.
The absolute worst is if a game scales difficulty by increasing the enemies health as it decreases yours.
That's actually the one problem I have with Half Life 2 combat.
The idea in general is one that really annoys me. It makes sense in some games, like Bioshock where you have powers and objects in he environment that can do more damage, or games with rpg elements like Mass Effect 2, or games where it only appears they have a huge health bar until you figure out a trick to taking them down like Halo. But for games like Gears, Black, Uncharted 1, and to a lesser degree the games previously mentioned, it is just annoying.
The absolute worst is if a game scales difficulty by increasing the enemies health as it decreases yours.
Zeliard said:
That's actually the one problem I have with Half Life 2 combat.
sixteen-bit
Member
play on easier difficultiesEagleEyes said:
I dont really get answers like these. I mean the game is not trying to be realistic, and it has strong rpg elements. What would be the point of leveling up if the game had a more realistic approach to combat where you could just kill every enemy with a shot to the head/chest ?bearcatjosh said:
Metroid Prime 2 on any difficulty
Metroid Prime 3 on any difficulty above normal
I don't really care about what sci-fi logic they use to justify it, because in real Metroid games Samus's beam obliterates enemies appropriate to the level of its upgrades. Prime 1 did this ok, and MP3 does it well enough on normal. But when I tried 3 on Hypermode, I found out the name of that difficulty is because your health is so low and the enemies are such terrible bullet sponges (not smarter, not tougher) that you spend forever in Hypermode so you can actually kill things.
also I don't get the Borderlands complaint at all. If you can aim in that game and critical guys (headshot for 99% of creatures in the game) you win. If you have a high damage/pellet count shotgun, you barely have to aim and you gib guys easily. If you have a good SMG with Lilith you can headshot guys super fast.
Metroid Prime 3 on any difficulty above normal
I don't really care about what sci-fi logic they use to justify it, because in real Metroid games Samus's beam obliterates enemies appropriate to the level of its upgrades. Prime 1 did this ok, and MP3 does it well enough on normal. But when I tried 3 on Hypermode, I found out the name of that difficulty is because your health is so low and the enemies are such terrible bullet sponges (not smarter, not tougher) that you spend forever in Hypermode so you can actually kill things.
also I don't get the Borderlands complaint at all. If you can aim in that game and critical guys (headshot for 99% of creatures in the game) you win. If you have a high damage/pellet count shotgun, you barely have to aim and you gib guys easily. If you have a good SMG with Lilith you can headshot guys super fast.
It never felt too bad in Uncharted for me because most of my kills were hs's. What was annoying was that occasionally what looked to be a perfect head shot somehow registered as a body hit.
No games have pissed me off more than the Gears series though. Not only does it take a ridiculous amount of bullets to kill these guys but the bloody enemies are sliding all over the place like they're wearing rocket powered roller skates while i'm shooting them. What the fuck is that about and why wasn't it fixed in Gears 2.
No games have pissed me off more than the Gears series though. Not only does it take a ridiculous amount of bullets to kill these guys but the bloody enemies are sliding all over the place like they're wearing rocket powered roller skates while i'm shooting them. What the fuck is that about and why wasn't it fixed in Gears 2.
Scythesurge
Member
Oh god, MP3, I forgot how awfully long some of those fights were.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Far Cry 2 was the only game I can't be bothered to finish because of this. Just playing on normal it takes nearly an entire assault rifle clip to drop someone.
Enemies also don't show any reaction to being shot unless you damn near blow off their legs with a sniper or shotgun round. Meanwhile, as the star of the game, I have to see my vision go red, break my aim, and dig bullets pout of my flesh as I take damage. So they charge you with impunity if you have the misfortune of being spotted, and you can't break line of sight, even if the enemy dialogue said you did. Oh, and their shotguns don't spray at distance, so they behave like sniper fire.
Combined with exclusively iron-sight aiming, its an exercise in frustration to fight groups of 3 or more.
In Halo 3, I don't play much multi these days, but I always thought it was bullshit that Brutes and Flood could take multiple Sniper/Beam rifle rounds, even to the head, even when unshielded. They are so nerfed compared to multi.
I really like the hit detection system in the original Perfect Dark, and recently in Splinter Cell Conviction. Enemies "feel" all bullets, even when charging, and headshots drop instantly. Rainbow Six Vegas isn't bad in this regard either, shooting enemies in the hands and legs is generally an effective way to get them to break cover.
Edit: wow, forgot about HL2 striders and nearly all the mid-tier enemies in Metroid Prime 2. If it takes me >5 Super Missiles to kill an enemy that's going to respawn a soon as I leave the room, backtracking is going to suck. The first game is so much better in this regard, thanks to the freeze and plasma rifles.
Enemies also don't show any reaction to being shot unless you damn near blow off their legs with a sniper or shotgun round. Meanwhile, as the star of the game, I have to see my vision go red, break my aim, and dig bullets pout of my flesh as I take damage. So they charge you with impunity if you have the misfortune of being spotted, and you can't break line of sight, even if the enemy dialogue said you did. Oh, and their shotguns don't spray at distance, so they behave like sniper fire.
Combined with exclusively iron-sight aiming, its an exercise in frustration to fight groups of 3 or more.
In Halo 3, I don't play much multi these days, but I always thought it was bullshit that Brutes and Flood could take multiple Sniper/Beam rifle rounds, even to the head, even when unshielded. They are so nerfed compared to multi.
I really like the hit detection system in the original Perfect Dark, and recently in Splinter Cell Conviction. Enemies "feel" all bullets, even when charging, and headshots drop instantly. Rainbow Six Vegas isn't bad in this regard either, shooting enemies in the hands and legs is generally an effective way to get them to break cover.
Edit: wow, forgot about HL2 striders and nearly all the mid-tier enemies in Metroid Prime 2. If it takes me >5 Super Missiles to kill an enemy that's going to respawn a soon as I leave the room, backtracking is going to suck. The first game is so much better in this regard, thanks to the freeze and plasma rifles.
ChoklitReign
Member
I'm playing Doom and Doom II and they have a hell of a lot of bullet sponges. At least it feels appropriate that 10 foot tall demons could take 3 rockets to the chest.
Pizza Luigi
Member
Are there games where there are no bullet sponges at all?
I mean, when you shoot someone through the chest, two times, maybe even once, eventually they will die from blood loss or whatever. Are there games where this actually happens?
I mean, when you shoot someone through the chest, two times, maybe even once, eventually they will die from blood loss or whatever. Are there games where this actually happens?
Bullet sponges don't usually bother me, though I do always think about how unrealistic it is. But regenerating health makes it even worse. I'm not a fan of Halo, but at least they explain it. However, in Call of Duty: World at War (haven't played the others) you essentially were a bullet sponge. You could theoretically take hundreds of bullets to the head and never die. It kind of takes you out of the 'war' atmosphere, which is a big part of what CoD is about. And when enemies can regenerate health, like in Borderlands, it just gets even worse (though the bigger issue with them is their insane amount of HP).
Wolf Akela
Member
Devil May Cry 3 DMD
Particularly DT'd Sloths. Takes forever to kill them, very boring.
Particularly DT'd Sloths. Takes forever to kill them, very boring.
MistakenMobius
Member
Operation FlashpointPizza Luigi said:
One of the only open world games where you really felt in a war
And Action Quake 2/Half-life
also had pretty realistic system for wound and such
in other genre lots of game had that kind of mechanic (Jagged Alliance IIRC)
Pizza Luigi said:
I don't believe there are any games where an enemy can bleed out from injuries. Maybe that will be a next gen feature :lol
There are plenty of games where weapons feel powerful, enemies react to shots, and you can tell how close an enemy is to death based on visual or audio clues.
I consider a game to have Bullet Sponges when weapons feel underpowered (even high tier weapons like AK 47s or shotguns), enemies do not react to being shot even to the point where you wonder if you hit them, and enemies have only two modes: fully operational or dead.
Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
Perfect Dark Zero - You pretty much have to get head shots on everybody in that game.
GitarooMan
Member
Kane and Lynch 2 I thought was like this at first, but really like someone else it's just that a lot of the common weapons are very, very inaccurate. If you can actually get close enough or use certain weapons that have less spray, enemies go down pretty fast.
RelentlessRolento
Member
GameGamer said:
Sam here. just beat it and have to say that's my largest problem with it. I'd enjoy it more if it was more enemies and less sponge.
Backfoggen
Banned
Did you play the unpatched version? I played the retail version of the game (yeah, i'm hardcore like that) and the balance between what I and what the enemies could take was ridiculous.Esperado said:
For whatever reason I always felt like Resistance was much worse than either of the Gears game. I suppose in Gears you are supposed to be getting active reloads and flanking to get close. Also one shot gibs and chainsaws were pretty frequent. I do agree that Gears 2 seemed to suffer from an absurd amount of lag if you're using your shotty. The Lancer is pretty damn powerful though.
Mr. B Natural
Member
Jay-B said:
Beat Splinter Cell: Conviction on the hardest difficulty and I completely disagree. The game was Rambo enough as it was. Do you have any idea how easy this game would have been if a couple of shots to the chest would kill an enemy? It was easy enough. All you had to do is shoot for the head.
And it definitely was not a bullet sponge game, 1 shot to the head or 3 or so in the chest is anything but bullet spongey.
Neuromancer
Member
Ah that was part of the games charm to me... Hitting the bosses with rocket after rocket (or grenades) watching their body fly around around on fire, and watching their health bars deplete... :lolsonicmj1 said:
I'm currently replaying Fallout 3 for the GOTY material.
In Point Lookout the swamp people's health scales to far beyond ridiculous.
Seriously - these are hillbillies wearing a t-shirts and jeans and they literally take dozens of facefulls of plasma rifle shots to kill.
Pretty much all the post 20 scaled enemies are that way.
Super Mutant Overlords and Feral Ghoul Reavers are amazingly annoying to fight as well.
In Point Lookout the swamp people's health scales to far beyond ridiculous.
Seriously - these are hillbillies wearing a t-shirts and jeans and they literally take dozens of facefulls of plasma rifle shots to kill.
Pretty much all the post 20 scaled enemies are that way.
Super Mutant Overlords and Feral Ghoul Reavers are amazingly annoying to fight as well.
IlludiumQ36
Member
As far as the Brutes, Halo 2 was a much bigger "offender" than 3.Revolutionary said:
Danne-Danger
Member
Day of Defeat had that for a while (don't know if it made it into retail). Very low health and you'd have to bandage yourself if you managed to survive. I think Firearms (another HL mod) did the same, but you could take a bit more punishment in that one.Guevara said:
Red Orchestra: Heroes of Stalingrad will also use a bleed/bandage system.
Plus 1 for uncharted, 2 fixed it though.Neuromancer
Member
Operation Flashpoint: Dragon Rising had it, I'm sure OF: Red River will too. You have to bandage yourself to stop the bleeding but your medic has to fully heal you (leg wounds make it so you can't run, arm wounds affect your aim.)Guevara said: