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Bungie: "Destiny 2 uses a hybrid of client-server and peer-to-peer technology"

I guess I'm just lucky? I see a lot of people around the web totally devastated that Crucible will still be this total lagfest they're experiencing, but my Crucible has pretty much always been 100% smooth. I don't play it very often nowadays, but I played a lot back in Year 1 and a bit into Year 2, and can't remember many instances of invincible/teleporting enemies.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
I guess I'm just lucky? I see a lot of people around the web totally devastated that Crucible will still be this total lagfest they're experiencing, but my Crucible has pretty much always been 100% smooth. I don't play it very often nowadays, but I played a lot back in Year 1 and a bit into Year 2, and can't remember many instances of invincible/teleporting enemies.

Yes, you were lucky. :p
 

nOoblet16

Member
Probably.

The way it works in Destiny from what I can tell (or generally when someone says Client Authority over movement):
  • Player 1 is moving forward
  • Player 1 lags for a few hundred milliseconds
  • Player 1 turns left and starts moving to Player 2's left
  • Player 1 stops lagging
  • Physics Server receives Player 1's commands
  • Physics Server accepts all of players commands when client says they happened because Player 1 is authoritative over his own movement
  • Physics Server corrects Player 1's position on Player 2's game rubberbanding Player 1 to the left to correct the now incorrect position Player 2 has been seeing

The way it ideally works when the server is authoritative over movement:
  • Player 1 is moving forward
  • Player 1 lags for a few hundred milliseconds
  • Player 1 turns left and starts moving to Player 2's left
  • Player 1 stops lagging
  • Physics Server receives Player 1's lag delayed commands
  • Physics Server rejects some/all of Player 1's commands for time that is too far in the past or it applies the commands at the time received
  • Server corrects Player 1 on their client because some of their movement was rejected/delayed and their "client side prediction" was incorrect
  • Player 1 continues doing what they did on Player 2's game possibly with minor interpolation correction (no rubberband).

This is why when you lag in say Counterstrike you skip/rubberband but when you lag in Destiny you don't. You just end up whereever you are locally with some delay on the server so everyone else sees you skip/rubberband but its smooth as butter for you.
Here's the thing, you want the movement itself to be client side so that you don't get the skating effect but have the server have the final authority over your movement, which is what you have in CS/BF where you get rubber banding when you lag or overlap with someone. If everything was server side then the visual response on screen to our inputs will be laggy as fuck.

I am not sure what it'll be like in Destiny 2 i.e. whether it'll have full authority client side or if client gets control of their movements but the final say will still be on the server.
 

Alo0oy

Banned
I'm always happy when there are no dedicated servers, dedicated servers always meant more lag for people like me, most companies don't give a fuck about us so we never get dedicated servers nearby. P2P is always a better experience.
 

Raide

Member
Yup, sounds like old Uncle Bungle again. Say one thing, get people going crazy, backpedal and say something else to appease people, probably say something else later that causes rage. Their typical PR cycle.

Looking forward to their loot plans etc, since that was the but I loved more in D1. I just want more variation.
 

janoDX

Member
I expect the "Overwatch Treatment" to cheaters now that D2 will be on the Blizzard client. Cheat once, you're fucked.
 

FyreWulff

Member
I think people are conflating games that have both P2P and dedi modes with Destiny's networking.

Destiny has some things p2p, because they're better there, and couple of things on Bungie's server. D2 moves more things to the servers. As the point out, there's no more host transition. There's both p2p and dedi stuff going on that rule the game world.

Other games are either all dedi or all p2p for a game and can select which one to use.

Dedis do not solve all problems, neither does P2P. It seems Bungie is trying to squeeze the benefits of both out, but it's hard to explain since it's different than how even their own previous games were set up.
 

Xanathus

Member
At the end of the day, any networking setup less than what Blizzard does for Diablo 3 and WoW is going to be susceptible to cheating so it doesn't matter what PR spin they're trying to put on it.
 

FyreWulff

Member
At the end of the day, any networking setup less than what Blizzard does for Diablo 3 and WoW is going to be susceptible to cheating so it doesn't matter what PR spin they're trying to put on it.

it's also been pretty hard to cheat in a Bungie game since Halo 2. Bungie's track record is pretty solid now for this stuff.
 

nOoblet16

Member
it's also been pretty hard to cheat in a Bungie game since Halo 2. Bungie's track record is pretty solid now for this stuff.
They developed for consoles though, it's not possible to actually "hack" there unless your console is jailbroken with stuff like JTAG mod for Xbox 360.
 

FyreWulff

Member
They developed for consoles though, it's not possible to actually "hack" there unless your console is jailbroken with stuff like JTAG mod for Xbox 360.

It was possible to hack both Reach and 3 without a JTAG. They also detected you within minutes and banned you, either way.
 

Leyasu

Banned
Devs can easily do that but won't?

Of course they can. Some games have already had it. Halo 5 had it implemented then removed. Devs seem to prioritise matchmaking speed over quality.

It should be standard. With an option to play out of region.
 
All games that feature peer to peer could be described as using a hybrid client server and peer to peer. Because the servers that a peer to peer match communicate with are all client-server (matchmaking, stat registration and often specific events / other world attributes)

Ultimately this interpretation is spinning the truth and neglects what consumers really want to know. Whether player movements / behaviours (shooting eachother) is communicated via peer to peer, and in Destiny, it is.
 

nOoblet16

Member
All games that feature peer to peer could be described as using a hybrid client server and peer to peer. Because the servers that a peer to peer match communicate with are all client-server (matchmaking, stat registration and often specific events / other world attributes)
True but how deep the hybridisation goes also matters. In Destiny 2's case it's going to be more than just matchmaking, even timers and stat registration that is done on Bungie servers.
 

FyreWulff

Member
How did that work? The hacking I mean

people would mod the gametypes and forge variants embedded in the playlist files . there was some .map style modding you could pull off if you fucked with the the gametype and forge variant in the right way, and Halo 3/Reach actually download all the gametypes in matchmaking and store them locally already before you even play a game.

There was also a short lived hack where people found out how to modify screenshots and uploaded actual porn JPGs to fileshares

in halo 2 i ran into modded games daily. in halo 3 i ran into a modder once. in reach, never. Halo 2 basically scarred Bungie for life it was ravaged so bad
 

Leyasu

Banned
I think people are conflating games that have both P2P and dedi modes with Destiny's networking.

Destiny has some things p2p, because they're better there, and couple of things on Bungie's server. D2 moves more things to the servers. As the point out, there's no more host transition. There's both p2p and dedi stuff going on that rule the game world.

Other games are either all dedi or all p2p for a game and can select which one to use.

Dedis do not solve all problems, neither does P2P. It seems Bungie is trying to squeeze the benefits of both out, but it's hard to explain since it's different than how even their own previous games were set up.

So, if it's not on dedicated servers, then how will the host migration be handled, and pvp games? I can't wrap my head around it.

It's one or the other. They have said that it's not any dedicated servers, so somebody is going to host it.
 

nOoblet16

Member
OK, but what about hosting?
Quote in OP says hosting is done on Bungie servers.
That would effectively make it what people usually refer to (and want) when they say "dedicated servers" i.e. have the game hosted elsewhere other than the people playing the game.


Matt Segur, Engineering Lead on Destiny 2: Every activity in Destiny 2 is hosted by one of our servers. That means you will never again suffer a host migration during your Raid attempt or Trials match. This differs from Destiny 1, where these hosting duties were performed by player consoles and only script and mission logic ran in the data center. To understand the foundation on which we’re building, check out this Destiny 1 presentation from GDC. Using the terms from this talk, in Destiny 2, both the Mission Host and Physics Host will run in our data centers.
 

Leyasu

Banned
Quotes in OP says hosting is done on Bungie servers.
That effectively makes it what people usually refer to (and want) when they say "dedicated servers" i.e. have the game hosted elsewhere other than the people playing the game.

I must have skipped over that. OK, now I'm back in, sort of.
 

FyreWulff

Member
So, if it's not on dedicated servers, then how will the host migration be handled, and pvp games? I can't wrap my head around it.

It's one or the other. They have said that it's not any dedicated servers, so somebody is going to host it.

it's both Bungie's servers and p2p. they've essentially split the tasks between server and p2p, depending on which one results in less latent results.

However, it's not 100% server side, so I think they're trying to not overstate by saying it's all on dedis. they literally say "you will never again suffer a host migration during your Raid attempt or Trials match". It's a true hybrid networking model that's mostly hosted on Bungie's servers this time, with a lot less left to p2p than D1.
 

nOoblet16

Member
people would mod the gametypes and forge variants embedded in the playlist files . there was some .map style modding you could pull off if you fucked with the the gametype and forge variant in the right way, and Halo 3/Reach actually download all the gametypes in matchmaking and store them locally already before you even play a game.

There was also a short lived hack where people found out how to modify screenshots and uploaded actual porn JPGs to fileshares

in halo 2 i ran into modded games daily. in halo 3 i ran into a modder once. in reach, never. Halo 2 basically scarred Bungie for life it was ravaged so bad
So it was basically editing the files stored locally and you could do it with a completely unflashed, unmodded console ? That's...crap.
 
True but how deep the hybridisation goes also matters. In Destiny 2's case it's going to be more than just matchmaking, even timers and stat registration that is done on Bungie servers.

Timers and stat reg are common even with peer to peer. Sure it does matter, because it means players can't leave matches to escape a loss, and things like that, however the biggest consequences still remain. Host advantage / disadvantage is intact and the game needs to compensate players (lag compensation) to mediate the desynchronisation between players.

It ends up messy, and ultimately, it's not a competitively valid solution.
 

Zok310

Banned
Oh so basically "we changed the title of the tech being used but the end result will be the same in terms of how player behave"
PC competitive game modes are gonna be so shit in D2.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Having the Physics on server hardware is definitely an improvement. This is in effect close to dedicated servers; at least all the shooting should feel very crisp but movement may still ghost from laggy players if it is accepting their late inputs.

Curious if it is still 10 hz now or if they got that faster. I think 10hz is a bit outdated even though all the 60hz/120hz madness ppl are into is also a little over the top.

They are begging for cheaters on PC or any console with future custom firmware though.
Destiny uses 30hz... I don't know where this 10hz come.
 

Symbiotx

Member
Oh so basically "we changed the title of the tech being used but the end result will be the same in terms of how player behave"
PC competitive game modes are gonna be so shit in D2.

Nope, that's not it at all. Either you didn't read or you just don't comprehend.
 

DisgustipatedSA

Neo Member
Destiny uses 30hz... I don't know where this 10hz come.
Because they gave 2 numbers at the same time and people aren't very bright. They said that damage and positioning are at 30 Hz and timers and scoring are at 10 Hz. So people just latched on to the 10 Hz part, completely ignoring what actually runs at 10 Hz.
 
Oh so basically "we changed the title of the tech being used but the end result will be the same in terms of how player behave"
PC competitive game modes are gonna be so shit in D2.

Cant really take the competitive talk serious, without dedicated servers in 2017.
 

Crayon

Member
I have no idea why people expect this feature (dedicated servers) for a mass market cash cow like this.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Because they gave 2 numbers at the same time and people aren't very bright. They said that damage and positioning are at 30 Hz and timers and scoring are at 10 Hz. So people just latched on to the 10 Hz part, completely ignoring what actually runs at 10 Hz.
Well that makes sense but there is no way anybody that played the game thought it was updating damage at 10Hz.
 
I think there is some confusion and misunderstandings regarding network architecture and hosting strategies. I've been working on this for my own indie game recently so I'll try and help clear this up to the best of my understanding. Its a bit long, so bare with me!

First off I'm taking what they have said at face value. It's possible they were just speaking generally and freely interchanged terminology to help communicate to the press the general gist without being accurate to the technicalities.

By hybrid approach, what I understand is they are using server authority for progression and client for gameplay. Progression would be things like earning in game gold, items, levels etc. Stuff you don't' want people to be able to cheat because it could cost you real dollars via in app purchases etc. They are then using client authority for gameplay.

Client Authoritative Movement:
In a client authority based model of movement the client has final say or "Authority" over their movement. In an FPS example lets say you spawn at XYZ location of 0,0,0. If the user press the forward key once (W key). If one input equals one unit forward they would then move to 0,0,1. In the client authority model this location would then be communicated to the server or other clients. The Client would say "Hey server I'm now at 0,0,1". The server would then broadcast this new position to all other players. The problem with this is you could potentially cheat and overwrite that value and say you are at 0,0,900 instead. Since the movement code is running on the client and it has authority the server would believe you. Thus you could exploit this to do speed boosts and warp around the map etc.

Server Authoritative Movement:
In a server authority based model of movement the server has the final say or "Authority" over the movement. Using the same example. Instead of sending a location of XYZ coordinates, the client would instead send inputs. If the user presses the "W key" once, this input gets sent to the server, the server then interprets this. The server takes it's current position of the player which is at 0,0,0 and calculates the new position based on the input. Example: 0,0,0 + "W key" = 0,0,1. This new position is then communicated to all players. This solves the problem in the client authoritative approach of being able to lie about your position, but it also means the code is being run on the server. Which would mean just as much lag for your own inputs as it would mean for other players. How do you solve this?

Client Side Prediction with Server Reconciliation:
This uses the same server authoritative movement but it adds a layer of predication to solve the latency problems inherit with remote internet connections. What happens is that both the client and server run the same movement code based on inputs. So if the player starts at 0,0,0 and presses the "W key" once. Both the player and the server run the game logic that calculates the new position (0,0,0 + "W key" = 0,0,1). This way the client input is registered immediately for the player. This is Client Side prediction. In a perfect world this code would always line up, but unfortunately you can't rely on that. So what you do is add Server Reconciliation. Much like sending the resulting position in the Server Authority model to all other players, the server also sends it back to the original player that sent the input. The client updates their position to reflect the server authoritative position. But... By the time the server sends back the position for the first input, the player has probably pressed the W key dozens of times more. To solve this location issue you can then re-run all the prediction logic to get the latest client predicted position based on the last validated server position. Lets use the same example of 0,0,0 + "W key" = 0,0,1. After a few hundred milliseconds the server tells you the resulting position of your first input is 0,0,1. In the elapsed time you have pressed the "W key" five more times. If you are keeping track of inputs this is easy to solve. The first input equals 0,0,1 as validated by the server. So you remove the first input which leaves you with 4 more inputs. You then recalculate your current position of 0,0,1 + "4 W keys" = 0,0,5. Then you repeat the same logic as before. The server interprets those 4 inputs, and you get a new position back that includes those 4 inputs but not others that you've entered during that elapsed time. This way you can get server authority based movement without input lag. 99.9999% of the time this logic works out and you never notice this happening. In the case where it doesn't, the server wins and you see your player warp to the correct server location if the clients previous prediction was wrong.


Hosting Strategies:

Peer To Peer:
Peer to peer hosting is when one or more of the players also acts as a server to host the match. Do not be confused though, this has nothing to do with the different authoritative models. A Peer to Peer hosting strategy can have either client base authority or server based authority models, or both probably. The "Host" in peer to peer is only used to communicate the game state to all other players. All players could still have authority over their movement, or the host could have authority over it. In the scenario where you have a Peer to Peer hosting strategy with Server Authoritative based movement you could help prevent cheating of most players, but not all. The host, since it is being hosted by a player would be open to exploitation since you do not have control of it. It also maybe possible for multiple hosts in peer to peer, where multiple users have authority over different portions of game logic. I have not heard of this in use, but I'm going to assuming anything is possible. If anyone knows of example please let me know, I'd be interested.

Dedicated Server:
This is where the hosting server is not one of the players. Usually hosted on an external cloud server of some kind. In this scenario the owner of the dedicated server has full control of the machine and code running. This is helpful to prevent hosts from cheating as the owner has final say of what code runs. Also due to the nature of dedicated servers running out of server hosting centers there should be a connection improvement, although there is nothing stopping someone from running a dedicated server from the bedroom with equally bad connection as a peer to peer solution. Be aware though, you could still have a dedicated server with client or server authoritative movement. Although I'm not sure why would use client authoritative movement in this scenario there is no reason why you could not.

Anyways, this was just a brief overview from the best of my understanding. I also did not mention anything regarding anti cheat scenarios the could potentially be applied in either scenario.

Related Sources:
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking

This gentleman has a nice demo of what client side prediction looks like if anyone is interested:
http://www.gabrielgambetta.com/fpm_live.html
 

nOoblet16

Member
I think there is some confusion and misunderstandings regarding network architecture and hosting strategies. I've been working on this for my own indie game recently so I'll try and help clear this up to the best of my understanding. Its a bit long, so bare with me!

First off I'm taking what they have said at face value. It's possible they were just speaking generally and freely interchanged terminology to help communicate to the press the general gist without being accurate to the technicalities.

By hybrid approach, what I understand is they are using server authority for progression and client for gameplay. Progression would be things like earning in game gold, items, levels etc. Stuff you don't' want people to be able to cheat because it could cost you real dollars via in app purchases etc. They are then using client authority for gameplay.
Great post. I hope this clears up some doubts people have regarding the client/server side authority. Most if not all games released these days use Client side prediction with server reconciliation in order to avoid the inputs being delayed due to lag. It's why we don't have the skating effect in multiplayer games anymore. Also I guess rubber banding is caused when the position between the client and server don't match.

However I'd like to add a bit of information regarding the bolded. They already had a hybrid approach in Destiny 1 which does exactly what you described. But the game was still hosted by one of the players. The first quote in the OP says that in Destiny 2 they will use data centres to host the game instead of having on the the players do it.
 

_machine

Member
At the end of the day, any networking setup less than what Blizzard does for Diablo 3 and WoW is going to be susceptible to cheating so it doesn't matter what PR spin they're trying to put on it.
You really should not compare the networking code architecture of Diablo 3 and WoW (or LoL) to an FPS which has an exponential amount of physics calculations and objects that need to be run simultaneously (with accurate physics). The server-load, and resources needed to accurately run the simulation/prediction code make it impossible to reasonably reach the same precision as in games that function more based transformation- and state-data. This coming from someone who's working on massive scale-FPS game, with a similar networking structure as discussed in the OP.
 
The "10 tickrate" post was a misinterpretation of Bungie's networking presentation. The networking presentation describes the dedicated server activity hosts (which are used to keep high-level game status things like objectives stable) as using a tickrate of 10Hz, and it mentions that to emphasize how little internet throughput those functions need. As far as I know, Bungie has never said what the gunplay/physics tickrate is.

I guess they never said it isn't ten, but unless someone has done some peeking at network behavior since then and conclusively shown something, we have no idea.

What is Destiny’s network tick rate?
Combat damage is sampled at 30Hz (30 times per second). We track and network how your shots land in every frame of gameplay you can see. You receive updates on systems like scoring or ammo spawn timers from an Activity Host at 10Hz (10 times per second).


Excerpt taken from https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/45459/7_This-Week-at-Bungie--11172016
 
Not the first point.

Game lose responsive based in how is your connection with the dedicated server.

P2P not.
What you are describing isn't related to P2p or design server.

You can totally have a dedicated server and still perform some calculations on the client to feel responsive, that's what most games do actually.
 

geordiemp

Member
it's also been pretty hard to cheat in a Bungie game since Halo 2. Bungie's track record is pretty solid now for this stuff.

Wat ?

Trials has so many cheats, lag switchers and DDOS other teams out of the game.

Its s such a common complaint many just gave up.
 

BLCKATK

Member
Just want to say thanks to the posters chiming in with network experience! I was kind of confused after reading the Weekly Update but I feel like I have a better understanding now.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Wat ?

Trials has so many cheats, lag switchers and DDOS other teams out of the game.

Its s such a common complaint many just gave up.

DDOS doesn't go through Bungie's servers, they can only detect DDOS by compiling a series of games of people consistently having the other team disconnect or lag out even when their geo-map says they shouldn't. Unfortunately that requires them to play multiple games before they're detected.

In Destiny 2, you'd be required to DDOS Bungie themselves, and the fact that the Bungie server is now authoritative for game progression, it gets a lot easier to detect any possible remaining network manipulations. ("Hey, we're seeing we can talk to you.. but your client isn't sending voip packets to the other team.. whatcha up to?....)
 
Great post. I hope this clears up some doubts people have regarding the client/server side authority. Most if not all games released these days use Client side prediction with server reconciliation in order to avoid the inputs being delayed due to lag. It's why we don't have the skating effect in multiplayer games anymore. Also I guess rubber banding is caused when the position between the client and server don't match.

However I'd like to add a bit of information regarding the bolded. They already had a hybrid approach in Destiny 1 which does exactly what you described. But the game was still hosted by one of the players. The first quote in the OP says that in Destiny 2 they will use data centres to host the game instead of having on the the players do it.

It does seems though that comparing the first quote and the third quote are at odds.
in Destiny 2, both the Mission Host and Physics Host will run in our data centers.
vs
The server is authoritative over how the game progresses, and each player is authoritative over their own movement and abilities.

At odds is probably the wrong word. There is nothing stopping them from doing it. I just don't understand why they wouldn't also have server authority for player movement and abilities considering they are hosting some of the logic already? I'm sure there is a reason for it, or it's just being miss communicated but its not clear to me. I would guess that splitting it is actually more work... so I'm curious why they made that decision.
 
I think people are conflating games that have both P2P and dedi modes with Destiny's networking.

Destiny has some things p2p, because they're better there, and couple of things on Bungie's server. D2 moves more things to the servers. As the point out, there's no more host transition. There's both p2p and dedi stuff going on that rule the game world.

Other games are either all dedi or all p2p for a game and can select which one to use.

Dedis do not solve all problems, neither does P2P. It seems Bungie is trying to squeeze the benefits of both out, but it's hard to explain since it's different than how even their own previous games were set up.
P2P is only better than dedicated servers when all participants are closer to each other than from the servers. And for 1x1 games where no matter the location of the servers compared to the players, directly connecting them will always be closer.

But other than 1x1 games, P2p is only preferred when there are no local servers and you are playing with games, which happened a lot last gen in Brazil for instance,but now thanks to cloud solutions and games using them, there is always a data center close to us.
 

FyreWulff

Member
P2P is only better than dedicated servers when all participants are closer to each other than from the servers. And for 1x1 games where no matter the location of the servers compared to the players, directly connecting them will always be closer.

But other than 1x1 games, P2p is only preferred when there are no local servers and you are playing with games, which happened a lot last gen in Brazil for instance,but now thanks to cloud solutions and games using them, there is always a data center close to us.

True, but therein lies the rub. Dedicated servers aren't a magic bullet, they only make the lag consistently bad for everyone in the game if they're far from the datacenter, instead of unpredictable. Which is why it seems Bungie is splitting out some more latency-sensitive actions to P2P to make them feel better for gameplay, while pushing the rest up to the dedis to make them harder to cheat but also more consistent.

Throw in groups of people playing together internationally, and someone still has to be lagged up because one of you is going to be far from the data center the game chooses for you. Me playing with my brother in the US and his buddy in Australia will not be helped by the game host being in dedis, because it's still going to be the same situation of us lagging playing on an AUS/NZ p2p host or him lagging playing on a US host in D1, or us lagging playing on an AUS/NZ datacenter or him lagging playing on the US datacenter in D2.
 

tuxfool

Banned
It does seems though that comparing the first quote and the third quote are at odds.

vs


At odds is probably the wrong word. There is nothing stopping them from doing it. I just don't understand why they wouldn't also have server authority for player movement and abilities considering they are hosting some of the logic already? I'm sure there is a reason for it, or it's just being miss communicated but its not clear to me. I would guess that splitting it is actually more work... so I'm curious why they made that decision.

I remarked on this oddness earlier in the thread. It just seems strange to me. If they're doing physics authority on the server then why wouldn't movement also be part of it. Maybe they do it to reduce animation calculations or player model collision detection?

True, but therein lies the rub. Dedicated servers aren't a magic bullet, they only make the lag consistently bad for everyone in the game if they're far from the datacenter, instead of unpredictable. Which is why it seems Bungie is splitting out some more latency-sensitive actions to P2P to make them feel better for gameplay, while pushing the rest up to the dedis to make them harder to cheat but also more consistent.

If we go by their explanation and consider movement to be p2p and shooting to be dedicated, then farming out more latency insensitive actions doesn't really work as an explanation. movement is absolutely latency sensitive, to the point that if shooting suffers from less latency, you get into the position where you can get shot by invisible people or the reverse, shooting at air.

Then again that explanation they gave may be not quite accurate, where movement also goes through the server but the server does not validate.
 

Zarth

Member
I remarked on this oddness earlier in the thread. It just seems strange to me. If they're doing physics authority on the server then why wouldn't movement also be part of it. Maybe they do it to reduce animation calculations or player model collision detection?

I can only imagine that they just don't want to incur the cost of running these inputs on the server so instead they run them on the clients and send the results. Shooting physics is relatively cheap compared to calculating things like interpenetration.

Who knows what else they may be running there related to AI movement too that could make the servers way more computationally expensive.
 

speiky

Member
Yea dedicated servers would be pretty good but my issue with Destiny's pvp is the tick rate. It's at 10!!!!! That's what they need to fix.
 
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