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Burnout Paradise 2 for next gen? [Criterion asks what you want in it]
- Thread starter Bgamer90
- Start date
AwakenedCloud
Member
If they just added the traffic lane bumpers from Burnout Revenge in the race events, I'd raise my score for that game by nearly 2 points.
You guys can have all the open world stuff you want, just keep it out of the races!
manfestival
Member
Get rid of open world and make it more like burnout 3. Revenge was good too but takedown is the most fun I ever had with a racing game
blindrocket
Member
Burnout Paradise is the best Burnout.
So more of the same, please!
So more of the same, please!
thecosmicfly
Banned
The increasing hate in this thread for the open world design of Burnout Paradise is leaving me flabbergasted. Absolutely flabbergasted. Granted, Paradise wasnt perfect by any stretch of the imagination, pre-patches it was a hassle to fully enjoy and certain tasks like finding every last gate, billboard and super jump continue to be a grind (The Angus Wharf parking lot will forever remain as that time-wasting asshole parking lot to me). But thats what sequels are for, to improve and refine on what did and didnt work in the previous entry. Forza Horizons mix of open world freedom with closed circuit race events is a clear example for what direction they could easily take the next game.
The comments that have this its either one or the other stance seem to be coming off as woefully ignorant. Theres still plenty of untapped potential with that style of gameplay. The idea of creating your own tracks in the city has already been mentioned by a couple people here but I feel needs reiterating. That idea alone would give whole new life to the game if you could mark out your own crazy routes, maybe place down a few ramps or hazards here and there to spice things up. Heck, if they're feeling adventurous, they could go all out with a create-your-own Crash Mode stage. You cant tell me your interest isnt slightly peaked at that prospect, can you? So, apart from that rather contentious sticking point, everything else (60fps, classic Burnout handling, return of Crash Mode, more varied environments, autolog etc.) has been pretty much covered in this thread.
Oh, and the game needs a ballsy-ass moment like this.
To be fair though, every game could do with a ballsy-ass moment like this.
The comments that have this its either one or the other stance seem to be coming off as woefully ignorant. Theres still plenty of untapped potential with that style of gameplay. The idea of creating your own tracks in the city has already been mentioned by a couple people here but I feel needs reiterating. That idea alone would give whole new life to the game if you could mark out your own crazy routes, maybe place down a few ramps or hazards here and there to spice things up. Heck, if they're feeling adventurous, they could go all out with a create-your-own Crash Mode stage. You cant tell me your interest isnt slightly peaked at that prospect, can you? So, apart from that rather contentious sticking point, everything else (60fps, classic Burnout handling, return of Crash Mode, more varied environments, autolog etc.) has been pretty much covered in this thread.
Oh, and the game needs a ballsy-ass moment like this.
To be fair though, every game could do with a ballsy-ass moment like this.
blindrocket
Member
I remember playing this game in the arcade, back in the day, that was like a stunt rack and you could drive through these loops. It was awesome. We need more loops!
And that gif. Lovely. What game is that?
And that gif. Lovely. What game is that?
AlphaTwo00
Member
I can understand that side, and it really isn't. If you did like that linear arcade racing experience, nothing has really been able to top what Takedown/Revenge did. Paradise doesn't satisfy that tight arcade racing battle feel, and only the Marked Men races came close to that type of intensity.
However, I don't think people in here are willing to face the facts: Criterion themselves has said before (I can't find the podcast/post for it) that they aren't willing to remake the same game again, because as they've said, it's still available to buy, so they won't remake it, and they've always said that the next game is going to be different than the last (hence, the deviation between 2, Takedown, Revenge and paradise). More importantly, games that have sort of taken the mantle of the old Burnout games into different direction hasn't made much of a dent as far as sales goes either, so is there even enough interest in gambling to make a linear racing game again? I know everyone in here wants one, and I'm all for them making one too, but if it leads them to the untimely demise that has plagued the likes of Bizarre Creations and Black Rock, then no thanks.
Recently released images of Bizarre's in production game before they were canned.
Crash Mode ala 3 (Revenge Crash wasn't terrible either, but 3 was better)
Rivalry Matchmaking ala Revenge
"Gated" Races
Autolog
Race Leagues/Tournaments
Random:
Let us record an avatar animation with Kinect (or manually) to play when we get Takedown'D. This would be in addition to or instead of the Face Cam. Extra points if we can animate fingers/face.
Rivalry Matchmaking ala Revenge
"Gated" Races
Autolog
Race Leagues/Tournaments
Random:
Let us record an avatar animation with Kinect (or manually) to play when we get Takedown'D. This would be in addition to or instead of the Face Cam. Extra points if we can animate fingers/face.
Chû Totoro
Member
One of the best racing game this gen. Count me in Criterion 
Just improve the menu navigation, make a Burnout 3 style crash mode, dynamic weather and the same awesome quality support with free DLC !!!
Just improve the menu navigation, make a Burnout 3 style crash mode, dynamic weather and the same awesome quality support with free DLC !!!
Crimsonclaw111
Member
I just want an easier to navigate open world. I don't remember if there's a fast warp/travel option, but if not, add that too.
Also bring back
Also bring back
the DeLorean
thecosmicfly
Banned
Don't get me wrong, I do see where people are coming from. Classic racing games with selectable, more linear tracks do have a more tigher, focused and competitive feel which helps them stand out and make them incredibly enjoyable to play, and it's a shame games that try to keep to classic arcade roots have failed to make an impact in the market. But I don't see why there's much harm for the next Burnout to keep those exact same linear tracks, but have it so when the race ends those glowing arrow barriers switch off and you're free to roam the city again. Like I said, the open world of Paradise wasn't the greatest (Although imo still a kick-ass experience) and isn't to everyones cup of tea, but as mentioned before, they can add features to draw in the older fans of the series whilst keeping the open world structure in tact, and exploit it to it's full potential (Again, customisable tracks/routes).
The only legitimate concern I can see people having is Criterion trying to appeal to everyone and satisfying no one, and we've seen how games that try to do that end up missing the mark. They would have their work cut out for them to even remotely have a chance to pull something of this caliber off, but if they somehow did, then we're talking about one hell of a great game here.
A untitled prototype build from a Bizarre Creations project, sadly enough. Hopefully that talent doesn't go to waste.
Nappuccino
Member
The increasing hate in this thread for the open world design of Burnout Paradise is leaving me flabbergasted. Absolutely flabbergasted. Granted, Paradise wasnt perfect by any stretch of the imagination, pre-patches it was a hassle to fully enjoy and certain tasks like finding every last gate, billboard and super jump continue to be a grind (The Angus Wharf parking lot will forever remain as that time-wasting asshole parking lot to me). But thats what sequels are for, to improve and refine on what did and didnt work in the previous entry. Forza Horizons mix of open world freedom with closed circuit race events is a clear example for what direction they could easily take the next game.
The comments that have this its either one or the other stance seem to be coming off as woefully ignorant. Theres still plenty of untapped potential with that style of gameplay. The idea of creating your own tracks in the city has already been mentioned by a couple people here but I feel needs reiterating. That idea alone would give whole new life to the game if you could mark out your own crazy routes, maybe place down a few ramps or hazards here and there to spice things up. Heck, if they're feeling adventurous, they could go all out with a create-your-own Crash Mode stage. You cant tell me your interest isnt slightly peaked at that prospect, can you? So, apart from that rather contentious sticking point, everything else (60fps, classic Burnout handling, return of Crash Mode, more varied environments, autolog etc.) has been pretty much covered in this thread.
Oh, and the game needs a ballsy-ass moment like this.
To be fair though, every game could do with a ballsy-ass moment like this.
So... instead of making the same game, they're going to make the same (but different) game?
Maybe if Burnout 3 was on the PC or PS3 I wouldn't care but I have no way of playing my favorite racing game in HD. The problem with the open world tracks is that arguably the best part about the first for games, the intensely perfected tracks with huge sweeping bends for high speed drifting get relegated to one small area of the track and there isn't much variety there either because the turns take up so much room. If you put those turns in the middle of the city in a truely open world racer, no one's going to take them because it would make no sense- a straight light is much faster than a curved line to the same destination.
Maybe, like some people say, they can keep both modes, but I'm not sure how that's viable.
And to the financial aspect: the games that emulated Burnout weren't Burnout. I think most people watching the videos of the game play could see that. They were good, not great racers that settled on gimmicks instead of intense road-swerving glee.
I don't see why you can't have open world for roaming, billboards etc, but when you roll up to a junction for a race you get some barriers in place to turn the course into more of a standard race. Best of both worlds.
VibratingDonkey
Member
More drift-ass corners.
Boosting should also boost the volume of the music/mix into the good bit.
Music should be good.
Visuals need to go back to the 90's. I want Sega blue skies, not this sterile monochrome-toned nonsense.
Dynamic events. Where's my helicopters?
Customization. Be it performance, cosmetic, or dumb special abilities like driving on two wheels. Or all of the things.
I wouldn't oppose if they also went less realistic with the track design. The whole thing doesn't need to be Trackmania, but little bits maybe.
Track editor.
Borrow Driver's car launching level and make a mode out of it.
Borrow Driver's singleplayer and make singleplayer out of it.
Replay editor.
Make Logitech or whoever produce a decent wheel that works across all of the platforms and doesn't aim to emulate the price of an F1 wheel.
I'm sorry, but I can't come up with my own ideas. I like the above parts of various racing games though. Just shove em all together and things should turn out great right?
Boosting should also boost the volume of the music/mix into the good bit.
Music should be good.
Visuals need to go back to the 90's. I want Sega blue skies, not this sterile monochrome-toned nonsense.
Dynamic events. Where's my helicopters?
Customization. Be it performance, cosmetic, or dumb special abilities like driving on two wheels. Or all of the things.
I wouldn't oppose if they also went less realistic with the track design. The whole thing doesn't need to be Trackmania, but little bits maybe.
Track editor.
Borrow Driver's car launching level and make a mode out of it.
Borrow Driver's singleplayer and make singleplayer out of it.
Replay editor.
Make Logitech or whoever produce a decent wheel that works across all of the platforms and doesn't aim to emulate the price of an F1 wheel.
I'm sorry, but I can't come up with my own ideas. I like the above parts of various racing games though. Just shove em all together and things should turn out great right?
Nappuccino
Member
This is more or less what the Midnight Club games do . . . but I feel like the openworld nature just limits what they can do with Burnout level design. Maybe they can surprise me and have two great things in one game but . . . I'd rather get the one thing I want (fantastically laid out tracks) first and foremost. If that means no open world, I couldn't care less.
Nintendo Playstation
Member
Save file recognition. Got an elite license in Burnout Paradise? Get instantly rewarded with some kind of bonus. Extra cars or some other status icon/identifier. Did you buy Big Surf Island? Get early access to an exclusive section of the city.
Intense paths with insane jumps. You could start at the Observatory, drive south along the west side of Paradise, through Dead Man's Pass and the wind farm, following the construction tubes doing wicked jumps on a hidden path, to make one final jump through a hole in the side of a mountain, only to hit the gas station around the corner and race to the finish line around the dirt race track or the ranch. Or you could continue around by crossing the bridge to the Naval shipyard and on. In other words, just make complete use of the city again, so you can find a fluid path anywhere you are/are going.
Intense paths with insane jumps. You could start at the Observatory, drive south along the west side of Paradise, through Dead Man's Pass and the wind farm, following the construction tubes doing wicked jumps on a hidden path, to make one final jump through a hole in the side of a mountain, only to hit the gas station around the corner and race to the finish line around the dirt race track or the ranch. Or you could continue around by crossing the bridge to the Naval shipyard and on. In other words, just make complete use of the city again, so you can find a fluid path anywhere you are/are going.
Killing_Joke
Member
I personally hate the open world. Boring as fuck imo. To be fair i haven't touched it in years so i don't know how much has changed.
Pryor
Member
I have to agree and say no more open world stuff. There are plenty of games out there which cover this. Maybe have a little more going on in the background of the tracks too. Nothing as extreme as a game like Split/Second but something more than just a static back drop.
Oh and don't bother making new music. Just import all the music from Takedown.
Oh and don't bother making new music. Just import all the music from Takedown.
Seventy_X_Seven
Member
I like your thinking, definitely more ballsy-ass moments. In regards to that GIF, I could only imagine how cool it would be as spectator in that event with a box seat right behind that glass!The increasing hate in this thread for the open world design of Burnout Paradise is leaving me flabbergasted. Absolutely flabbergasted. Granted, Paradise wasnt perfect by any stretch of the imagination, pre-patches it was a hassle to fully enjoy and certain tasks like finding every last gate, billboard and super jump continue to be a grind (The Angus Wharf parking lot will forever remain as that time-wasting asshole parking lot to me). But thats what sequels are for, to improve and refine on what did and didnt work in the previous entry. Forza Horizons mix of open world freedom with closed circuit race events is a clear example for what direction they could easily take the next game.
The comments that have this its either one or the other stance seem to be coming off as woefully ignorant. Theres still plenty of untapped potential with that style of gameplay. The idea of creating your own tracks in the city has already been mentioned by a couple people here but I feel needs reiterating. That idea alone would give whole new life to the game if you could mark out your own crazy routes, maybe place down a few ramps or hazards here and there to spice things up. Heck, if they're feeling adventurous, they could go all out with a create-your-own Crash Mode stage. You cant tell me your interest isnt slightly peaked at that prospect, can you? So, apart from that rather contentious sticking point, everything else (60fps, classic Burnout handling, return of Crash Mode, more varied environments, autolog etc.) has been pretty much covered in this thread.
Oh, and the game needs a ballsy-ass moment like this.
To be fair though, every game could do with a ballsy-ass moment like this.
And actually Paradise did have a design your own track via connection intersections, my friends and I came up with a bunch of circuits using it. Problem is that they don't add any boundaries so unless you already know the circuit by heart it can be hard to follow.
True. It was a big part of what made Burnout unique. Why take a great feature away?
EYEL1NER
Member
At first I was thinking that I would be fine with a Forza Horizon -esque "open-world with some races that have barriers," but then I decided I don't even want that.
Sure there are multiple open-world racers out there, but how many offer the same kind of short-cuts, alternate paths, and other ways to reach an objective as Paradise did? Some offer short dirt paths off a main road that shave a second off your time and allow you to overtake an opponent who is directly ahead of you. Or there will be a building you can dart around or cut through.
Paradise allowed you to pick whatever route you wanted to get to your destination. I can't remember how many times I took a wrong turn, pulled up the map to compare my distance from the end-point with my opponent's, thought "Fuck, I'll never make it there on this road in time," and then busted my ass to the finish line and won anyway. Just look at an event that spans the map and where the cars are on the map mid-race. The cars break up and take multiple paths and routes to get to the finish line, two might be up here, one taking some road to the left, four bunched up going over a bridge somehwere. I liked that.
I was hoping Forza Horizon would be similar to that when I saw the map, but it wasn't. You can take whatever roads you wanted, but in almost all instances taking a different road or route meant that you were fucked. In Paradise, you can drive anywhere during a race and still be in the game and have a shot.
So open-world and no barriers, all the way baby!
Sure there are multiple open-world racers out there, but how many offer the same kind of short-cuts, alternate paths, and other ways to reach an objective as Paradise did? Some offer short dirt paths off a main road that shave a second off your time and allow you to overtake an opponent who is directly ahead of you. Or there will be a building you can dart around or cut through.
Paradise allowed you to pick whatever route you wanted to get to your destination. I can't remember how many times I took a wrong turn, pulled up the map to compare my distance from the end-point with my opponent's, thought "Fuck, I'll never make it there on this road in time," and then busted my ass to the finish line and won anyway. Just look at an event that spans the map and where the cars are on the map mid-race. The cars break up and take multiple paths and routes to get to the finish line, two might be up here, one taking some road to the left, four bunched up going over a bridge somehwere. I liked that.
I was hoping Forza Horizon would be similar to that when I saw the map, but it wasn't. You can take whatever roads you wanted, but in almost all instances taking a different road or route meant that you were fucked. In Paradise, you can drive anywhere during a race and still be in the game and have a shot.
So open-world and no barriers, all the way baby!
Crunch2600
Neo Member
Bigger world with multiplayer and singleplayer blending seamlessly. Populating your world with other players, having races just happen. Seamless matchmaking?
Bounty hunting your friends who are just doing their own race.
Kind of random, there's so much they could do. Bigger, better crashes/vehicle deformation/explosions, more players in multiplayer for certain modes. Carrying on what they did with Most Wanted, repurposing different settings for different modes.
Bounty hunting your friends who are just doing their own race.
Kind of random, there's so much they could do. Bigger, better crashes/vehicle deformation/explosions, more players in multiplayer for certain modes. Carrying on what they did with Most Wanted, repurposing different settings for different modes.
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
In my opinion, it wasn't Crash mode which made Burnout unique, but more the arcade-y brutal speed oriented gameplay with an awesome damage model for every car. Burnout Paradise made it better by giving it a big open city where you can choose your missions yourself any time you want them.
Oh, you mean like Burnout Paradise?
Agent X
Gold Member
I see many people here didn't like Burnout Paradise's "open world" approach.
You know, when the demo first came out, I disliked it, and thought that the big open city was a big mistake. But I decided to get the game anyway, and it turned out to be one of my favorite games of the last few years. I've been playing Need for Speed: Most Wanted (similarly-designed game from the same developer) over the last 3 months, and that too is an excellent game.
I definitely say keep the open world for the majority of the game, but perhaps they could have certain individual modes (for example, Crash Mode) take place in restricted areas.
Cool, but I'm still on season 3 (watching on Netflix) and trying to catch up chronologically. I just started watching a few months ago--wish I knew earlier how great this show is! (But now I'm getting off topic.)
Very good, although for points 1 & 2 I'd say (as stated above) open world should be the majority of the game, especially for standard race events. Fenced-off circuits could be used for special race events here and there, but I do like the open city with its freedom to experiment with different routes. Sometimes it sucks when you're still trying to familiarize yourself with the map, and take a wrong turn thinking it's a shortcut when it's not. However, that's not a bad thing. That's just part of the learning process, and hopefully you can use that knowledge to improve your skills.
Crash mode? Definitely!
Signature Takedowns (as seen in some earlier Burnout games)? Awesome suggestion! It would be even better if the game took a snapshot of the Takedown, and allowed you to export the snapshot to your game system's photo storage area.
Speaking of photos, a Photo Mode sure would be nice. Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit (also from Criterion) had this, and even had an easy way of sharing photos on your "wall" within the game. That's one feature that was sadly missing from Most Wanted.
That would be nice. Criterion has previous experience with this concept, as Burnout Revenge did this several years ago. It would unlock special vehicles if you had saved game data from Burnout 3: Takedown and/or Madden NFL 06.
I'm surprised Criterion hasn't tried anything on this scale with their games during this generation. With both Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit and Burnout Crash, you could carry over some progress from the demo to the full game. However, nothing crossed over between games.
You know, when the demo first came out, I disliked it, and thought that the big open city was a big mistake. But I decided to get the game anyway, and it turned out to be one of my favorite games of the last few years. I've been playing Need for Speed: Most Wanted (similarly-designed game from the same developer) over the last 3 months, and that too is an excellent game.
I definitely say keep the open world for the majority of the game, but perhaps they could have certain individual modes (for example, Crash Mode) take place in restricted areas.
Cool, but I'm still on season 3 (watching on Netflix) and trying to catch up chronologically. I just started watching a few months ago--wish I knew earlier how great this show is! (But now I'm getting off topic.)
Very good, although for points 1 & 2 I'd say (as stated above) open world should be the majority of the game, especially for standard race events. Fenced-off circuits could be used for special race events here and there, but I do like the open city with its freedom to experiment with different routes. Sometimes it sucks when you're still trying to familiarize yourself with the map, and take a wrong turn thinking it's a shortcut when it's not. However, that's not a bad thing. That's just part of the learning process, and hopefully you can use that knowledge to improve your skills.
Crash mode? Definitely!
Signature Takedowns (as seen in some earlier Burnout games)? Awesome suggestion! It would be even better if the game took a snapshot of the Takedown, and allowed you to export the snapshot to your game system's photo storage area.
Speaking of photos, a Photo Mode sure would be nice. Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit (also from Criterion) had this, and even had an easy way of sharing photos on your "wall" within the game. That's one feature that was sadly missing from Most Wanted.
That would be nice. Criterion has previous experience with this concept, as Burnout Revenge did this several years ago. It would unlock special vehicles if you had saved game data from Burnout 3: Takedown and/or Madden NFL 06.
I'm surprised Criterion hasn't tried anything on this scale with their games during this generation. With both Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit and Burnout Crash, you could carry over some progress from the demo to the full game. However, nothing crossed over between games.
Open world is fine for between races or for mini games but for a proper race I want to play on a set track, kinda like the NFS: Underground 2 system.
It's just frustrating to lose a race just because I didn't see a street coming up or the computer found a faster route then me. It just takes away the fun from the game.
It's just frustrating to lose a race just because I didn't see a street coming up or the computer found a faster route then me. It just takes away the fun from the game.
I'm disappointed by Criterion, I was expecting way more with Most Wanted, they basically just did a Burnout game with the NFS franchise.
I was expecting the following for the new NFS:MW:
1. Allow people to create a character/avatar.
2. Use characters/avatarts and cars (if they have a good car) from your friend list friends to appear as the top 10 most wanted.
3. If you don't have enough friends with the game, then use others people names and cars from Autolog.
4. Have cars customization back, on par with Midnight Club LA at least.
5. Make getting to the Top 10 most wanted hard, just like the original.
Of course, they didn't do any of that. But if they do a Burnout Paradise with any of those ideas above, then that will be great in my book.
The only problem I had with Burnout Paradise was that the city didn't have much variation, it was boring after driving for long hours. NFS: Most Wanted map they did was great, lots of variation and sections. Would love to have a China Town area, Vegas like area, etc. Give us places to look lights at at night, those places are always fun to race on IMO.
Besides that Burnout Paradise was fun as hell, unfortunately I only ended up using 1 car in general and didn't move from there unless I was forced to.
I was expecting the following for the new NFS:MW:
1. Allow people to create a character/avatar.
2. Use characters/avatarts and cars (if they have a good car) from your friend list friends to appear as the top 10 most wanted.
3. If you don't have enough friends with the game, then use others people names and cars from Autolog.
4. Have cars customization back, on par with Midnight Club LA at least.
5. Make getting to the Top 10 most wanted hard, just like the original.
Of course, they didn't do any of that. But if they do a Burnout Paradise with any of those ideas above, then that will be great in my book.
The only problem I had with Burnout Paradise was that the city didn't have much variation, it was boring after driving for long hours. NFS: Most Wanted map they did was great, lots of variation and sections. Would love to have a China Town area, Vegas like area, etc. Give us places to look lights at at night, those places are always fun to race on IMO.
Besides that Burnout Paradise was fun as hell, unfortunately I only ended up using 1 car in general and didn't move from there unless I was forced to.
A big open world and crashes are the point of Burnout Paradise and Need For Speed: Most Wanted 2012 is a worse game because it's worse at both. If it's Burnout Paradise 2, then it needs a huge open world with shit to do and amazing crashes. If it's just Burnout, then I don't know that it needs any of that.