And probably every other character in the game was too. Such things are the expected norm in game development. Initial concepts rarely pan out 1:1 or even close to it in VGs.
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And probably every other character in the game was too. Such things are the expected norm in game development. Initial concepts rarely pan out 1:1 or even close to it in VGs.
Especially because it's Virtua Fighter, and that series NEVER changes character designs as far as I've seen.
SerTapTap
Member
First I've heard of Skyrim redguards being too white? This is definitely a thing though, and not video games but prominent rolls for film as well. It's this gross focus on (not my wording) "exotic" skin coloring which is just a bit dark, clearly not quite white but not very dark at all either.
She's still lighter than the concept art and the generic black enemies in the game. I don't mind the concept art-> final character nearly as much as the "black in earlier game, olive at best in next game" thing though. Even happened to Daisy and she wasn't even that dark to begin with...
Holy shit. Every game needs to let you turn off these awful camera effects, that looks so much better.
She's still lighter than the concept art and the generic black enemies in the game. I don't mind the concept art-> final character nearly as much as the "black in earlier game, olive at best in next game" thing though. Even happened to Daisy and she wasn't even that dark to begin with...
Holy shit. Every game needs to let you turn off these awful camera effects, that looks so much better.
Might be but all the promotion for the game features her but with her lighter complexion from her original incarnation
Masquerader
Member
I... Never played VF5. That image comparison's damn horrible. Why did they even NEED to change her, exactly? Stupid shit.
DoktorEvil
Banned
mullet2000
Member
Sadly this more of an issue with society in general than it is in videogames.
In a lot of the world lighter skin = higher social status and "more beautiful," which is incredibly unfortunate. It's quite pervasive in many Asian cultures in a very overt way as well (India and Bangladesh being the ones that stands out formost in my mind).
Still, yes, I'm sad when it happens in videogames too. The kickstarter for the new Shantae: Half-Genie Hero game originally significantly whitened Shantae's skin, which really stood out to me as borderline offensive. They later fixed it to some degree, though she's still ligher than she use to be. :/
Pre-update Shantae, for reference:
In a lot of the world lighter skin = higher social status and "more beautiful," which is incredibly unfortunate. It's quite pervasive in many Asian cultures in a very overt way as well (India and Bangladesh being the ones that stands out formost in my mind).
Still, yes, I'm sad when it happens in videogames too. The kickstarter for the new Shantae: Half-Genie Hero game originally significantly whitened Shantae's skin, which really stood out to me as borderline offensive. They later fixed it to some degree, though she's still ligher than she use to be. :/
Pre-update Shantae, for reference:
Every character has skin tone edit options to make them more or less tan. In Vanessa's case this translates to more black...
I always thought Jade looked tan rather then black in UMK3. And if she was black that would mean they blacked up Kitana.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
The fact you can modify Vanessa with darker skin in-game is irrelevant to me, and probably most others as well--it's obvious Sega didn't want Vanessa being dark. They then changed her default look.
I don't agree on Vanessa and Jade. I don't think I really ever saw Vanessa as black, but it is a shame they made her lighter in VF5.
Jade is not black. Even in other media she is portrayed as asian. She looks more Pacific Islander than black.
Elena looks more japanese than black, but that could be an artstyle thing.
I think Sheva looks fine.
With the above being said though, I do agree that there is a lack of realistic looking black characters.
Jade is not black. Even in other media she is portrayed as asian. She looks more Pacific Islander than black.
Elena looks more japanese than black, but that could be an artstyle thing.
I think Sheva looks fine.
With the above being said though, I do agree that there is a lack of realistic looking black characters.
BronsonLee
Member
Yeah, now that I think about it, the designs pretty much stay the same whole hog. Even the damn costumes.
Shit, that just makes it stand out even more!
BabyFaceKillah
Member
There you go:
Look at the right side of her face here to see how extremely oversaturated the lighting can get:
She is still lighter than the art in the OP
Coming from a pretty clueless standpoint on this "issue", but I'm curious: if a character is "too black" (see the NHL example above), doesn't it often cause their model to lose definition?
In an age of low-quality LCD's that are poor at simulating true Black, I feel like making a character too dark is something a designer would have to be concerned with for non-racial reasons, especially in games with Brown/darker environments.
In an age of low-quality LCD's that are poor at simulating true Black, I feel like making a character too dark is something a designer would have to be concerned with for non-racial reasons, especially in games with Brown/darker environments.
SerTapTap
Member
She looks a bit "anime" which was probably deliberately lost when putting it in 3D. Explains the features, not the color though.
Depends on your contrast, but Skyrim's Redguards have a good level of contrast and are still quite a bit darker than most "post-whitewash" examples given:
If anything these shit color filters AAA devs love ruin your contrast 100x more than skin color ever could.
I've noticed in all kinds of Japanese media, games, comics, cartoons, that they love giving black or just generally dark skin characters white hair. What's with that? Now that I've pointed it out you won't be unable to unsee it.
Rather than her her skin color, I find it interesting they changed her braids into straight hair. People must not like animating "nappy" hair or something? Do we need "ethnic hair" tech?!
Rather than her her skin color, I find it interesting they changed her braids into straight hair. People must not like animating "nappy" hair or something? Do we need "ethnic hair" tech?!
Triggerhappytel
Member
Very disappointing. Another example - and a very glaring example - the badass and amazing Vanessa from Virtua Fighter 4:
Then there's a huge change when going to VF5:
The fuck? I haven't played enough of VF5 to have noticed this change, but that's fucking disgusting.
Edit - I've just watched some VF5 footage, and she now looks like a Caucasian woman with a mild tan. Can't believe they changed it to such an extreme degree.
Vanessa in vf 4 looks like a white girl in "black face" idk something about it is super awkward.
I feel like many black characters in Japanese developed games have that going on. That said I probably only notice it easy since there are so few black characters in games in general.
Off-Kilter
Banned
WayForward tried to whitewash Shantae but then restored her original skin tone after enough criticism.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
I think they based Sheva on Karen Dyer did her mo-cap and voice work
Vanessa from VF on the other hand is some ol bullshit.
Vanessa from VF on the other hand is some ol bullshit.
Very disappointing. Another example - and a very glaring example - the badass and amazing Vanessa from Virtua Fighter 4:
Then there's a huge change when going to VF5:
Loved VF4. Loved VF5 but didn't play it as much as VF4 since I had a lot of other games to play during the time it released. I never noticed this before. Sad.
killatopak
Member
I don't think there's a problem in Sheva's case. I'd consider it a problem if in the next time she appears in a game, she has the same problem Jade did.
notworksafe
Member
I see the race to be the most offended has already started.
TheBlackMarvel
Member
blessed is he who hath posted said gif
Slamtastic
Member
She's not from Earth. Her nationality is Outworld/Edenian.
Side note but I've never liked silver hair on black women like that. I don't like it on Storm, nor Elena and I don't like it on Vanessa. I always opt for natural hair colors when I can.
ah, didn't realize that happened. Sort of lessens the blow, I guess?
Oh LOL
ah, didn't realize that happened. Sort of lessens the blow, I guess?
Oh LOL
BronsonLee
Member
OH GOD EA I see your game now! Darkening the world, one by one!
Maybe there's like 80 Jades? It'd explain fucking Shaolin Monks
PhoenixFyre
Member
I might get shit for this, but yes, that can be the case. In one of the games I'm working on, I originally wanted a black main character, but with the art style I want, I found she lost more and more detail the closer I got to her original design. Oftentimes the shadows just made it look awful and in some darker areas the character just looked like a weird moving smudge.
Were I better with lighting, character models and the over all art of the game, I probably could have figured out some compromise that didn't mess up the art style too badly, but sadly I'm just one dude and in the interest of time had to give up on that version of the main character.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Im going to be that guy, but honestly, no matter where you look in media, unless we are talking big arsed, twerking sex objects, dark skinned black women are by and large the least desirable.
Even media that has "black" representation, the woman is usually so light she could pass for mixed race.
Its something that has become so ingrained in society that its very unusual to meet a darkskinned woman who hasn't come across so kind of bullshit like
"Oh you are pretty...for a dark skinned girl". That's coming from black men, never mind anyone else.
Its a horrible disturbing trend and far bigger than representation in videogames.
Even media that has "black" representation, the woman is usually so light she could pass for mixed race.
Its something that has become so ingrained in society that its very unusual to meet a darkskinned woman who hasn't come across so kind of bullshit like
"Oh you are pretty...for a dark skinned girl". That's coming from black men, never mind anyone else.
Its a horrible disturbing trend and far bigger than representation in videogames.
KojiKnight
Member
I don't completely disagree with this... Her character looked less black, and more white girl in a tanning bed way too long. That said, their 'solution' to dousing her in bleach instead of modifying her facial structure a bit is very offensive.
I think they based Sheva on Karen Dyer did her mo-cap and voice work
Vanessa from VF on the other hand is some ol bullshit.
Josh in RE5:
Josh's voice and mo-cap actor:
Code:
[IMG]http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ayb7WP_KYls/hqdefault.jpg[/IMG]It was simply a case of trying to make the sexy sidekick sexier by lightening her skin colour.
Pyramid head
Banned
In the first picture, her skin colour looks indistinguishable from Chris's, in the second she still looks like she only arrived in Africa a week before Chris.That sheva image is a little unfair considering it's the dullish filter that's native to the game that's drowning out a lot of her color. Here's another shot in different lighting:
With the game's shit filter turned off completely via mods in the PCv:
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, about that Gloria/Trish...
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
But concept art is just concept. Especially when you're doing motion capture and are basing your character off of the chosen actress. Sheva looks way mroe similar to her initial concept art than most VG characters. According to Laura Bailey, when Fetch first started out she was light skinned, wore a bit of tribal makeup, and had a shy look and hunched back and some kind of cloak. As we've seen there are characters that get lighter and darker overtime, I don't think there's some secret motive here on the part of character modelers.
BronsonLee
Member
...What the hell
Eh, that was honestly just a random ass bug. I think it happened during a GB launch stream?
Leafhopper
Banned
Sword Familiar
178% of NeoGAF posters don't understand statistics
To be fair, Vanessa's origins are "unknown" according to the wiki. It could be explained with her not having dark skin, but having a temporary tan that went away.
SneakySneaks
Member
Outworld has a middle east too. Tanya is from the south, Jade is from somewhere in the middle-east.
Then either that's some really blatant hyperbole or you need to get a better monitor.
Yeah, you definitely need to get a better monitor.
That's nonsense.
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