synchronicity
Member
Sure, I get that. I'm a games fanboy. The delivery method is a means to that end, and doesn't matter to me.
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Buying exclusivity not OK for Epic store, but fine for Sony and Microsoft?
Sure, I get that. I'm a games fanboy. The delivery method is a means to that end, and doesn't matter to me.
I think exclusivity is fine as long as it is funded and made clear from the beginning. Announcing your game as on both consoles, taking preorders then pulling one because you got a moneyhat (like TR) or advertising your game or requesting funding from the public as a game releasing on steam then pulling it off the store because you were paid is, again, bullshit.
In conclusion, don't pull a switchero and all is fine.
In conclusion, don't pull a switchero and all is fine.
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MMaRsu
Banned
Why couldnt they give out free games while not taking exclusives?
Now that would be consumer friendly.
Its not competition and Steam has improved in many ways over the years.
No matter how you spun it, Epic is not your friend. They are giving away free games so you enter their space.
Also there is no GabeN fanclub. Whoever dreamt that up needs to get their head checked.
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PSlayer
Member
I don't think people champion the idea of buying third party exclusives,even on consoles. People usually accept the idea of first and second party exclusives on consoles but that concept doesn't exist on PC.
As people already said,not only Epic is buying third party exclusivity but it is doing in the platform where gamers don't like exclusivity at all.
As people already said,not only Epic is buying third party exclusivity but it is doing in the platform where gamers don't like exclusivity at all.
No company is your friend but different companies can offer better value and Epic has done that. Both for the consumer and the developer.
S
SLoWMoTIoN
Unconfirmed Member
I was agreeing with him on GoG being superior but not something steam fanboys will ever admit. Also where else would I shit from if not my ass? What a stupid thing to say.
Arkam
Member
I could care less what Epic does/doesnt do. Their launcher will forever only be on my PC for Unreal game development. I wish that didnt require their launcher, but it does, so its there out of necessity. So when they buy exclusives it just means I will not be playing them (unless on Console too). Will I care if I miss a mig game? Maybe.... but Ill live.
Dargor
Member
I actually dont care about any of that. The only time I find it troublesome is when the game has already been announced as multiplatform and then someone buys the timed exclusive deal. And that almost never happens. That I can recall, the last time that happened was with one of the tomb raider games, and as far as I remember, unless SE got a really good paycheck, that backfired hard on them.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
It's shit for AAA games. It's fine for smaller titles that need funding. I don't think MS does this anymore and well Sony hasn't stopped seemingly.
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MMaRsu
Banned
Who are these Steam fanboys you are talking about?
MMaRsu
Banned
No they havent. Not at all.
Bryank75
Banned
I think context is important... I usually am fine with companies funding games complete development if it is all agreed before the announcement. (If the game was not going to happen otherwise).... like SFV and Demons Souls.
But I don't like companies coming in after an announcement and then making a deal...
But I don't like companies coming in after an announcement and then making a deal...
009EspadaSageJay
Member
Different market the gaming platform on PC isn't tied to a sole entity you dont even need windows to play games you have linux,ubuntu,steam os,Ios. Pc has multiple store fronts and multiple distributors no one person owns anything steam is less a store front and more of an open internet data base for games were you can do anything you want. And thats before we talk about emulators and other side piece of software that is 100% open source.
Epic is a propriety gaming company that is locking stuff to there store origin was the same but unlike origin Epic is selling your info out to the Chinese communist party. Epic's store is unusable, the rootkits hidden in there store front raise legality eye brows and the fact that they just steal exclusive deals and lock them on a store front behind other shady practice is disgusting.
MS,Sony,Nintendo,Steam,GOG arent like epic in the slighest even Origin and Uplay aren't like that the fact that Epic is backed up by the CCP and Tencent is reason alone not to touch that store with a 10ft pole.
Epic is a propriety gaming company that is locking stuff to there store origin was the same but unlike origin Epic is selling your info out to the Chinese communist party. Epic's store is unusable, the rootkits hidden in there store front raise legality eye brows and the fact that they just steal exclusive deals and lock them on a store front behind other shady practice is disgusting.
MS,Sony,Nintendo,Steam,GOG arent like epic in the slighest even Origin and Uplay aren't like that the fact that Epic is backed up by the CCP and Tencent is reason alone not to touch that store with a 10ft pole.
tmlDan
Member
I never said that Epic is my friend, I just understand business. None of these companies are your friend.
Steam has NOT changed, they have early access and changed their UI, and changed the review system slightly but their business practices have not changed,
If Epic realizes this and they know they can win consumers over by buying exclusives and giving out free games, in the end that competition give you free games - you can't argue that its bad for consumers.
Your argument isn't really sound, especially when you say Steam fanboys don't exist - they certainly do.
Stilton Disco
Member
Whether an exclusive is justified or not is subject to the circumstances around why it's exclusive:
If the platform holder wants to make their own games, then that's fine (1st party titles)
If they want to commission an external studio to make a game specifically for their platform, then that's also fine (2nd party titles)
If an external publisher/studio want to make a game on just one platform, either because the audience doesn't exist elsewhere or to minimise costs, thats good too (3rd party titles)
If a platform holder is simply paying for a game to not be released on one or more other platforms, or adding timed/full exclusivity clauses to their contracts when agreeing to allow sales on their platform, then that's bollocks, as well as an anti consumer and underhanded way to conduct business.
If the platform holder wants to make their own games, then that's fine (1st party titles)
If they want to commission an external studio to make a game specifically for their platform, then that's also fine (2nd party titles)
If an external publisher/studio want to make a game on just one platform, either because the audience doesn't exist elsewhere or to minimise costs, thats good too (3rd party titles)
If a platform holder is simply paying for a game to not be released on one or more other platforms, or adding timed/full exclusivity clauses to their contracts when agreeing to allow sales on their platform, then that's bollocks, as well as an anti consumer and underhanded way to conduct business.
Free games + lower cut from developers. How haven't they?
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Damigos
Member
The term exclusivity and the term buying are very loose.
I guess you mean that for games that already exist and are not made by studios who belong to Sony / MS etc.
But to our point, i do mind pc exclucivity because no one “makes” a PC. Console is a closed system created by a company, PC is not.
And i dont mind console exclucivity because its the exact thing that justifies buying a console.
I guess you mean that for games that already exist and are not made by studios who belong to Sony / MS etc.
But to our point, i do mind pc exclucivity because no one “makes” a PC. Console is a closed system created by a company, PC is not.
And i dont mind console exclucivity because its the exact thing that justifies buying a console.
RedVIper
Banned
There's nothing wrong in having a monopoly in on itself.
Monopolies are bad when the company keeps pushing everyone else out. Steam didn't try to stop GOG, or origin, or all the other launchers that exist. They have a monopoly because they're the better store.
Epic wants to be the monopoly and it wants to keep everyone else out. People shit on them because of their anti consumer practices.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Fair point. I am not familiar enough with some of the anticonsumer Tactics you speak of so if you would like to educate me im all ears.
But I do take a bit of hesitance when you say they have the monopoly because they are the better store. Steam is a form of DRM and from what I know GoG isn't all DRM free. Wouldn't that make them the better store?
MMaRsu
Banned
So? Pc gaming has thrived since they entered the market and has been growing since.
cartman414
Member
What about itch.io? Not a full on platform, but devs can set their own split (90/10 recommended) and there are lots of deep cuts.
RedVIper
Banned
Gog does have benefits over steam but it also lacks many other things. Things like steam workshop and the social aspect (which I know not everyone cares about) are lacking on GOG side.
IDappa
Member
Because people for some reason are loyal to the conglomerate they prefer and I just have no clue why. Look at Sony for with all of their new game announcements for instance, I noticed one big theme which is timed exclusivity and the lack of outrage and even misinformation spread through gaming sites regarding these releases. You see people championing the fact that a large portion of gamers have been locked off from a game knowing that they would not be happy with this outcome if the shoe was on the opposite foot and would have initiated full mob mentality if it was another company.
My question would be why does any company get positive feed back for these timed exclusives when in the long run it just hurts consumers. I do however feel it's less of a problem on pc than console as people don't have to buy a new PC to download games on the epic store.
Bugsnax (Timed exclusive)
Deathloop (Timed exclusive)
Ghostwire: Tokyo (Timed exclusive)
Godfall (Timed exclusive)
Goodbye Volcano High (Timed exclusive)
JETT: The Far Shore (Timed exclusive)
Kena: Bridge of Spirits (Timed exclusive)
Little Devil Inside (Timed exclusive)
Oddworld: Soulstorm (Timed exclusive)
Project Athia (Timed exclusive)
Solar Ash (Timed exclusive)
Stray (Timed exclusive)
My question would be why does any company get positive feed back for these timed exclusives when in the long run it just hurts consumers. I do however feel it's less of a problem on pc than console as people don't have to buy a new PC to download games on the epic store.
Bugsnax (Timed exclusive)
Deathloop (Timed exclusive)
Ghostwire: Tokyo (Timed exclusive)
Godfall (Timed exclusive)
Goodbye Volcano High (Timed exclusive)
JETT: The Far Shore (Timed exclusive)
Kena: Bridge of Spirits (Timed exclusive)
Little Devil Inside (Timed exclusive)
Oddworld: Soulstorm (Timed exclusive)
Project Athia (Timed exclusive)
Solar Ash (Timed exclusive)
Stray (Timed exclusive)
The Hamburglar
Banned
the way xbox went about it this gen was pathetic because they had no exclusives of their own la second tomb raider. With that said, Sony doing it now is just as bad.
Paying for funding is one thing such as titanfall, but paying for the game to be off other platforms is sad.
Paying for funding is one thing such as titanfall, but paying for the game to be off other platforms is sad.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Why does the social aspect and workshop have to be exclusive to games on steam? Like I know that can sound like a trolly response but I see no reason why they need to be locked down to that platform. That's assuming they are. I'm not sure if they are.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
It's just the norm now sadly on console. People have accepted it. It's hypocritical for sure.
teacupcopter
Banned
I do think there is a difference. PC should be open.
but I also realise that ship has sailed. Ultimately the EGS stuff is overblown and I wish gamers would stop shrieking about it.
but I also realise that ship has sailed. Ultimately the EGS stuff is overblown and I wish gamers would stop shrieking about it.
RedVIper
Banned
Why would steam waste money to provide you with features for a game you bought on epic?
And the workshop is available anyway if you really want it. Just not directly trough steam.
MMaRsu
Banned
What is overblown about a company wanting to fundamentally change the way you buy and play games on the system?
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
That's my point though. It's just as much of a walled garden as epic if I have to use their software to access their features in games that are available on more than one platform.
I just don't see a huge difference between the two. Is exclusive money hatting bad for consumers? For sure, but so is having to login to steam for their features. Console makers do it all the time and nobody cries out the way they do when epic does it.
At the very least epic is providing a much better cut to developers.
Neither one seems ideal in my eyes.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Because in order to get people on your platform having exslusive content is an absolute must. Not saying I was a fan of HOW they did it, but Epic needed exclusive content for their platform to get users.
RedVIper
Banned
Steam isn't paying developers to keep their games off gog, or epic, or origin. Calling steam a walled garden is ridicolous.
You're free to buy the games on other stores, you just won't get acess to the steam workshop (Well not officially), I think comparing this to Epic money hatting games is pretty disingenuous.
If epic had a feature that steam didn't have and you only got access to it if you used their platform that would be more than fine.
It's just as bad when consoles do it, but console users have been used to that shit for decades, it doesn't make it good, it's just the norm. I'd like it not to be the norm on PC too.
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teezzy
Banned
I personally just like having all of my games under one platform. I know and trust Steam, and have done so for years. The fact that I can't access GamePass proper through Steam irks me, and I love Xbox!
Basically I'm at a point where if I can't play it on Steam or Xbox then I really can't be bothered. There's too much I haven't played yet per these services that I don't feel like I'm missing enough to commit elsewhere.
Steam + Xbox is the best fr.
Basically I'm at a point where if I can't play it on Steam or Xbox then I really can't be bothered. There's too much I haven't played yet per these services that I don't feel like I'm missing enough to commit elsewhere.
Steam + Xbox is the best fr.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Not when it benefits developers it doesn't.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
How is steam not a walled garden? I think our definition is different, at least in my head. If I buy a game on steam I can't take that software anywhere else. I'm stuck in that eco system with it. It's not that I can't get the software it's that to use the software I bought I have to go through steam. Thus defeating this idea of PC being an open platform.
Which is why I brought up GoG being the most ideal i would think. DRM free.
Valves hold on the industry seems dangerous as they have all of the mindshare and if you want your games to be successful you basically have to be on steam.
I don't like epics approach but I understand it.
At least we can agree on it being bad when any console maker does it.
dcx4610
Member
People are just so used to Steam being the place to buy games that it feels wrong to have to use a different app. People like having their games in one place.
A better analogy would be if you had a PS4 and you had to launch an app, buy the game there and only be able to play the game from that app. That would annoying, no?
A better analogy would be if you had a PS4 and you had to launch an app, buy the game there and only be able to play the game from that app. That would annoying, no?
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Annoying sure but if it meant developers got a better cut shouldn't it be something we should strive for?
RedVIper
Banned
Steam doesn't force DRM, publishers/developers do. You're free to put your games on Steam without DRM. You're free to distribute your game outside of steam.
The things you're complaining about aren't forced by Steam. Most small developers simply can't host their own games, but some do, I bought factorio once, but I have access to it trough Steam and trough the official factorio website.
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D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, "nothing," except making sure there was a PC gaming industry in the first place.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
For the record I'm not complaining. I'm simply trying to get the full picture.
And I wasn't aware of that. Is there an easy way to tell which games are DRM free on steam? How does it work with factorio? Was a steam key generated when you bought it from their website?
RedVIper
Banned
List of DRM-free games
This is a list of games and software available on Steam that do not require the use of the Steam client itself (after the game or software is downloaded using the client), do not contain any third-party DRM (Digital rights management, e.g. Games for Windows - LIVE, Uplay, Denuvo Anti-Tamper...
FAQ | Factorio
www.factorio.com
If I buy the game on your Purchase page will I be able to get a Steam key?
Yes, that is possible. After you have bought the game you can connect it to your Steam account at your profile page and then have your Steam key emailed to you. Linking to the Steam account is an anti-fraud mechanism. However, this free Steam key only applies to purchases made directly on our webpage: any purchases from 3rd party retailers are not eligible for a Steam key.
Steam also does not take a cut when you do this, if you buy the game trough the oficial channels Wube gets all of your money even if you decide to get the Steam key.
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Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
List of DRM-free games
This is a list of games and software available on Steam that do not require the use of the Steam client itself (after the game or software is downloaded using the client), do not contain any third-party DRM (Digital rights management, e.g. Games for Windows - LIVE, Uplay, Denuvo Anti-Tamper...steam.fandom.com
FAQ | Factorio
If I buy the game on your Purchase page will I be able to get a Steam key?
Yes, that is possible. After you have bought the game you can connect it to your Steam account at your profile page and then have your Steam key emailed to you. Linking to the Steam account is an anti-fraud mechanism. However, this free Steam key only applies to purchases made directly on our webpage: any purchases from 3rd party retailers are not eligible for a Steam key.
Does valve still get a cut of this?
I'm well aware of what Valve has done for PC gaming. But I expect more from them given the position they have. They have been slacking on the games department front at least for 8 years.
RedVIper
Banned
See me edit, I added it after. (No)
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
I would say that's a definite point for steam them by giving that option. Is there any particular reason this practice isn't widespread among the indie community? Or is it and I just wasn't aware?
RedVIper
Banned
It isn't because setting up your own store and website is not only costly (Factorio also has their own site to hold mods), it's also risky because of resellers, people buying your game with stolen credits card and then requesting a refund. If you have your own store you'll be losing money every time someone does this, if it's on steam they'll handle it for you.
To mention the cost again, if you're a small indie devolopers the server costs are going to be more than 30% of your revenue, so simply paying steam makes business sense.
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