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Cal football fans who think some grand conspiracy screwed them..

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StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
let me introduce you to a wonderfull poster at a Texas fansite called Syntex. I dont know who he is, but nearly a month ago he called Texas jumping Cal... and now he lays the wood on the Pac 10 comish, Tedford and that guy from the counting crows.

The Pac 10 commish, the Cal coach, and many others are harping on some of the voting patterns that may have tainted the BCS. Let's talk about it. Let me take item by item some of the problems that have been discussed (and I will make adjustments accordingly).

-- You complain about the 3 Texas based AP voters who switched and put Texas ahead of Cal. I'm gonna switch it back for ya. (typing). There you go!

-- You complain about the Alabama jerk who suddenly realized Texas is not the #9 team, but he suddenly moved us up to #5. Bear in mind, he still had Texas behind you guys, but what the hay? Let's take away those four points from Texas, shall we?

-- You are offended (and you have a case) that some coaches put Texas #2 or #3. You are right. That is wrong. I'm taking it all away. I will take away those points from Texas, and because y'all are so damn confident that you unequivocally outrank Texas, I will reassign all these #2/#3 Texas coach votes to Texas as a #5 vote. (More typing). There we go! And I'm being so nice today, I'm gonna go ahead and leave the pro-Cal #3 vote that mysteriously appeared in the final coaches poll.

-- You are offended that 6 coaches put you #7 or #8. Yes, that's wrong, too. Forget the fact that 8 coaches had Texas #7 or #8, the media is not mentioning that fact at all, but whatever. What I will do for y'all... I will take all 6 Cal #7/#8 votes, and because y'all are so convinced you are the better team, I will magically turn those into #4 votes, ahead of Texas.

So where do we stand after all these very generous changes?

#4 Texas 0.8442
#5 Cal 0.8397
0.0045

That's right. We eliminated a little more than half of the difference. So much for the razor thin margin. So much for the conspiracy taking away your Rose Bowl bid. Y'all need to get together, figure out another injustice, and let me know, so we can try to plug a way for you guys to win.

OK. Now that I have mathematically shown (and given you all are very smart students at Berkeley, and you know based on what I said above, I'm right), let me give you all the reasons why you need to shut up already and just accept your damn Holiday Bowl bid.

1. The "Conspiracy Effect" Doesn't Add Up
This is what was just proven above. In the end, it makes for a neat Trev Alberts, PTI, New York Times, Seattle Times story, but it didn't really matter.

2. You Outranked Us in Both Human Polls
Al Gore wanted a recount, investigations, because he had LOST the human vote. You guys won it, damn it! Not only do you outrank us #4/#5 in the coach's poll, but you have the added benefit of a wedge (Utah) to outrank us #4/#6 in the AP poll. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?? How can you allege fraud in the human polls, when in the end, they WENT IN YOUR FAVOR?

Forget the fact that both teams have identical records, and a good case to make as both teams lost to undefeated national title contenders. It's understandable that some voters will vote Cal #4/Texas #5, and vice versa. If you refuse to accept that premise, you are being naive. It is not a slam dunk case, that in every voter's mind, that you are better than Texas. You know it and we know it. I will never argue that every voter should have Texas higher than Cal, and you should never argue the opposite. It's a grey area.

And in the end, the grey area was in your favor. You are unhappy, because it wasn't overwhelmingly ENOUGH in your favor. Oh well.

3. There's a reason the computers liked Texas
Cal's cumulative opponents win/loss was 61-61, a perfect breakeven.
Texas' cumulative opponents win/loss was 67-56, 11 games over 0.500

That's right. The best way we can try to demote our schedule to your level, is to pull out the undefeated 12-0 record of our best opponent, Oklahoma. But given that you guys bitch and bitch and bitch how close you came to beating your undefeated opponent, I don't think we can accomodate you there.

We beat 5 teams that had 7 or more victories. You defeated one. One. One team that won 7 or more games.

4. Be fair about each of our losses.
I am more than willing to grant you that you played USC better than we played OU. But don't go saying that you practically beat USC (because you outgained them, and your wideout tripped on his route), while we got blown out by OU. The score of the OU game at halftime was Oklahoma 3, Texas 0. It was Oklahoma 6, Texas 0 up until 8 minutes in the 4th quarter. I realize that given you are Pac 10 fans, you must shiver when you see such a defensive struggle. But this was a very close game.

Again, we did not do as well against our rival as you did against yours. You guys were close. But don't go saying that we were blown out by OU.

5. Be fair about each of our sloppy wins.
Kansas. Boy, the media sure loves that game. We played sloppy in that one no doubt, but you guys know that as time was winding down, the Oregon WR dropped a wideopen, easy pass that puts them well within field goal range. So those are both near misses against sub-0.500 teams.

Arkansas. Well, I was happy with that one, it was an electric environment. It was probably closer than it should have been. Honestly, I do think this is a wash with your Southern Miss game. On the road, close at the end (game was nearly tied 17-16 with a mere 6 minutes left). But in the end, the better team won.

If you try to assert that any of our wins beyond KU and Arkansas were low quality or squeakers in nature, you are wrong (in my opinion). I attended and re-watched each of these games. Kansas and Arkansas made me sweat, but as the games concluded, none of the others were really in question, and they were all by reasonable victory margins. Yes, a comeback was needed against Okla State, but we won that game by 21 points.

6. Quit harping on the Big 10/Pac 10 sanctity crap.
For years, the Rose Bowl has been diligent in preserving tradition by always inviting the champion of the Big 10, to play the champion of the Pac 10.

Three teams: Michigan, Cal, and Texas. Only one of them meets this tradition, and last time I checked, that team is going to the Rose Bowl. Tell me, again, how the tradition is being violated.

7. Quit saying Mack Brown's "whining" did the trick.
While you and Utah were off, and after we defeated a ranked A&M team in a rivalry game, Mack Brown made public statements asking for voters to reconsider their votes. Some have portrayed this as "whining," some may say he was politicking, but whatever you want to call it, it doesn't matter. He was certainly making an appeal to voters.

When the polls came out merely 2 days later (again bearing in mind that Texas beat a ranked team, Cal and Utah were off), here's what happened: Cal GAINED 4 points relative to Texas in the human polls. Texas LOST ground after defeating a ranked team by 13pts, while Cal was off. If ANYTHING, the "whining" backfired. It clearly didn't help.

Here's a thought.... maybe Cal lost ground in the human polls in the following week (a full 9 days after Mack's "whining") because of a subpar performance against a mediocre conference USA opponent. Because they were virtually tied with Southern Miss with only 6 minutes remaining in the game. Not because of Mack's "whining." And if you think it is wrong for Cal to be penalized on ballots because they didn't look good against a mediocre opponent -- welcome to college football. Teams have constantly been tweaked because of soft performances. Nebraska, in 1997, lost considerable votes (relative to Michigan) when it needed some luck to squeak by Mizzou. The precedent is ample, and reasonable. In fact, Texas according to many voters was being penalized for its performance against Kansas. What goes around, comes around.

(Edit: Sincere apologies, slight math error on BCS estimate now corrected. Clear I didn't go to Berkeley! Net effect of edit only 0.0006, so immaterial to the conclusion)
 

DJ Sl4m

Member
Hell I think everyone realizes Cal is overated, but in a year of so many (normally) good teams having an off/transition year they look almost decent.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Also, I have been trying to think of a Texas alum who should counter the counting crows guy..

at first I thought Walter Cronkite should do it, because EVERYONE loves him. But then it hit me. GARY BUSEY. We just need him to go on PTI and just go fucking nuts. No one can argue against Gary Busey. I think he could win a debate on the merits of slavery.
 

Nerevar

they call me "Man Gravy".
from sports illustrated:

What I do have a problem with is voters who seemed to think Cal was the better team for a month or more, then suddenly using a 26-16 victory over Southern Miss as an excuse to change their mind. So Southern Miss isn't Southern California, but they're not Southern Methodist, either. Any road game, nevertheless one 2,500 miles away, is tough, and the Bears got the "W." It was no more an indictment of the Bears than Texas' near-loss at Kansas. Voters had 10 weeks to come to the conclusion that Texas is a better team than Cal. You're telling me it finally dawned on some voters a week after the 'Horns' season ended?

And don't get me started on the Coaches' poll. According to USA Today, two coaches decided to move Texas up to No. 3 after last weekend's inaction. One already had the Longhorns No. 2! Cal picked up one third-place vote in the AP poll. Meanwhile, four coaches moved the Bears down to No. 7, two to No. 8, when last week none had them below No. 6. And unlike the AP voters, whose names and ballots were made public Sunday night, none of the coaches are held publicly accountable for their actions. Unbelievable.

Sorry, but there is nothing more fundamentally broken than the college football system.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Nerevar said:
Sorry, but there is nothing more fundamentally broken than the college football system.

what they leave out is the fact that most voters had never seen Cal until that night. You only get one first impression, and fair or not, Cal didnt make a very good one.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Either way it's still the Bullcrap System and basically no one other than the schools that get lucky under it (Texas, Pitt) and the people making $$$$$$$$ off it can even tolerate it.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
AstroLad said:
Either way it's still the Bullcrap System and basically no one other than the schools that get lucky under it (Texas, Pitt) and the people making $$$$$$$$ off it can even tolerate it.

wait.. you are lumping Texas with Pitt? Shit like that is what makes me hope Cal returns to the doormat status it occupied for the previous 50 years.

Plus, we got screwed last year, so tough shit. Get over it. We managed to, and we didnt even go ballistic and put on tin foil hats when we did it.
 

Nerevar

they call me "Man Gravy".
StoOgE said:
what they leave out is the fact that most voters had never seen Cal until that night. You only get one first impression, and fair or not, Cal didnt make a very good one.

so you're endorsing a system that encourages people to improperly evaluate other teams based on hearsay and highlight reels? That's why the fucking polls are so inertia-driven in the first place. It's broken, and it sucks.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Nerevar said:
so you're endorsing a system that encourages people to improperly evaluate other teams based on hearsay and highlight reels? That's why the fucking polls are so inertia-driven in the first place. It's broken, and it sucks.

that is part of the reason they started using the computers. Then everyone hated that, you can thank the 'whining' of USC for this change. Now that they reduced the computers influence, everyone hates the human polls again. Plus, Cal was ahead in the human polls, its the "objective" computers that had Texas WAY ahead of Cal. There is no good way to do this that doesnt involve a playoff.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
StoOgE said:
wait.. you are lumping Texas with Pitt? Shit like that is what makes me hope Cal returns to the doormat status it occupied for the previous 50 years.

Plus, we got screwed last year, so tough shit. Get over it. We managed to, and we didnt even go ballistic and put on tin foil hats when we did it.

Hahaha... wtf man I hate Cal. I've never even been there, so I don't have shit to "get over" beyond the fact that the BCS is retarded, and so is anyone who thinks it's a good system.

I'm not "lumping Texas with Pitt," as if to say that Texas is as good as Pitt, especially when you consider the only point I'm making. Pitt was "lucky" b/c they totally jobbed their way in, no one denies that. So people from Pitt are now trying to defend the system b/c they got a nice deal out of it. Either way you cut it, maybe Texas is slightly better than Cal, maybe Cal is slightly better than Texas, most likely it's close to a toss-up. To anyone w/o colored glasses on it's not a decisive advantage either way. Yet Texas got the lucky draw this time they get in while an easily as good team is totally shut out and Texas fans are defending the BCS like it's God's gift to man. It's just funny. I'd love to see what all you horns would be saying if it was the other way around.

What everyone need to realize instead of just basking in it when their team gets the edge and turning around and bitching about it when it doesn't (and vice versa) is that the system is shit. I think that's the only valid point to come out of this whole mess.
 

marko

Member
AstroLad said:
Either way it's still the Bullcrap System and basically no one other than the schools that get lucky under it (Texas, Pitt) and the people making $$$$$$$$ off it can even tolerate it.

Neither of those teams were lucky. Pitt won the conference, and Texas earned it. Pitt just looks really bad this year since were so many good teams and big east is a weak conference this year. But, one thing, it was a pac-10 team in 1999/2000 that was the first unranked team in the BCS (Stanford), at least Pitt is ranked this year.


And if Texas was screwed last year, it was screwed by one of it's own conference members, I'm sure most people would of rather seen a more deserving Texas than Kansas St, but you play by the conference rules, and that is why there were no complaints.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
marko said:
Neither of those teams were lucky. Pitt won the conference, and Texas earned it. Pitt just looks really bad this year since were so many good teams and big east is a weak conference this year. But, one thing, it was a pac-10 team in 1999/2000 that was the first unranked team in the BCS (Stanford), at least Pitt is ranked this year.


And if Texas was screwed last year, it was screwed by one of it's own conference members, I'm sure most people would of rather seen a more deserving Texas than Kansas St, but you play by the conference rules, and that is why there were no complaints.

If you don't think Pitt is lucky to be where they are right now, you are out of your mind. Shit, my best friend went to Pitt and he thinks they were lucky.

Good God, are you on the BCS Committee or something? Holy shit.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Dont misunderstand the first pose. Im not claimng Texas is better than Cal. I would take Texas simply because Vince Young is an X factor, but it would be a close game and I have tinted glasses.. play the game 10 times, neither team would win more than 6 of them.

This post is in response to Cal fans who are up in arms, blaming Texas for them not making it, blaming Mack Brown, blaming Texas buying off voters, etc. The fact is, it was a toss up and Cal lost, but they are now acting as though it was a given that they are the better team and the only way that they DIDNT make it was some sort of screw job. Its gotten to the point where I really have started to dislike Cal and its fans because they are coming off as whiny bitches.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
StoOgE said:
Dont misunderstand the first pose. Im not claimng Texas is better than Cal. I would take Texas simply because Vince Young is an X factor, but it would be a close game and I have tinted glasses.. play the game 10 times, neither team would win more than 6 of them.

This post is in response to Cal fans who are up in arms, blaming Texas for them not making it, blaming Mack Brown, blaming Texas buying off voters, etc. The fact is, it was a toss up and Cal lost, but they are now acting as though it was a given that they are the better team and the only way that they DIDNT make it was some sort of screw job. Its gotten to the point where I really have started to dislike Cal and its fans because they are coming off as whiny bitches.

C'mon man you know you'd be whining if you had their season and this happened. Just think about it that way. I prefer "whining" to non-whining b/c the "whining" is drawing attention to the fact the system sucks while the being quiet is just "woo-hoo! we got in! now everyone stfu about the broken system."
 

marko

Member
AstroLad said:
Hahaha... wtf man I hate Cal. I've never even been there, so I don't have shit to "get over" beyond the fact that the BCS is retarded, and so is anyone who thinks it's a good system.

I'm not "lumping Texas with Pitt," as if to say that Texas is as good as Pitt, especially when you consider the only point I'm making. Pitt was "lucky" b/c they totally jobbed their way in, no one denies that. So people from Pitt are now trying to defend the system b/c they got a nice deal out of it. Either way you cut it, maybe Texas is slightly better than Cal, maybe Cal is slightly better than Texas, most likely it's close to a toss-up. To anyone w/o colored glasses on it's not a decisive advantage either way. Yet Texas got the lucky draw this time they get in while an easily as good team is totally shut out and Texas fans are defending the BCS like it's God's gift to man. It's just funny. I'd love to see what all you horns would be saying if it was the other way around.

What everyone need to realize instead of just basking in it when their team gets the edge and turning around and bitching about it when it doesn't (and vice versa) is that the system is shit. I think that's the only valid point to come out of this whole mess.


I don't think anyone here is defending the BCS, most everyone agrees the system sucks. People are not defending the system when they defend the team, they are defending the rules by which they qualify. When you say crap like "Pitt was lucky/they jobbed their way in", no such thing happened, the big east champ got a BCS bid, this was a known fact, therefore the big east champ gets a bid. It is simple. Pitt was not the first unqualified team to get a bid, nor the last, maybe the least worthy...

And I've seen Stooge bash the BCS just as much as anyone else.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
marko said:
I don't think anyone here is defending the BCS, most everyone agrees the system sucks. People are not defending the system when they defend the team, they are defending the rules by which they qualify. When you say crap like "Pitt was lucky/they jobbed their way in", no such thing happened, the big east champ got a BCS bid, this was a known fact, therefore the big east champ gets a bid. It is simple. Pitt was not the first unqualified team to get a bid, nor the last, maybe the least worthy...

And I've seen Stooge bash the BCS just as much as anyone else.

Pitt was lucky b/c a shitty fucking system that everyone has hated for years put them where they are. I don't know what you wanna call that, man, but I call it lucky. If there was a system that allowed the Cleveland to play the Steelers in the NFL Playoffs I would also call Cleveland lucky.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
AstroLad said:
C'mon man you know you'd be whining if you had their season and this happened. Just think about it that way. I prefer "whining" to non-whining b/c the "whining" is drawing attention to the fact the system sucks while the being quiet is just "woo-hoo! we got in! now everyone stfu about the broken system."

this happened to us LAST YEAR. We were 5th or 6th in the BCS, the highest ranked non conference champ, and then OU lost and we were screwed. Then to top that off our arch rival STILL got in the championship game. We got it pretty bad last year, dont get me wrong there were alot of upset people.. but our quarterback, coach or conference comish were not on ESPN calling foul on another team. The thing is, they ARENT attacking the BCS, I wouldnt have a problem with that. They are going on TV and bitching about Texas and Mack Brown.

To be clear: the BCS sucks. The fact hat Pitt, Florida State, and Michigan got in instead of Cal is crock. Texas didnt deserve to go in before Cal. Cal didnt deserve to get in before Texas. Someone had to get screwed. It was Cal. However, WE didnt do it to them.
 

marko

Member
AstroLad said:
If you don't think Pitt is lucky to be where they are right now, you are out of your mind. Shit, my best friend went to Pitt and he thinks they were lucky.

Good God, are you on the BCS Committee or something? Holy shit.

lol, the big east is lucky their automatic bowl bid wasn't revoked, that is all, but even then that isn't really luck if you look into the details. Once that was set, the big east kept their bid, and conference champ got a BCS bid. Where is the luck in that? No different than Kansas St getting a BCS bid with 3 losses last year, or Fl St in 2002 with 4 losses. It is more noticeable of course this year because there are truly more deserving teams (Cal) that should be in the BCS instead of Pitt, and the big east is quite weak.
 

Dilbert

Member
StoOgE said:
The thing is, they ARENT attacking the BCS, I wouldnt have a problem with that. They are going on TV and bitching about Texas and Mack Brown.
Did he or did he NOT publicly ask voters to rank Texas higher than Cal?
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
-jinx- said:
Did he or did he NOT publicly ask voters to rank Texas higher than Cal?

He didnt ever mention Cal. He just asked voters to take a look at Texas because we deserved to go. For whats its worth, Cals athletic director was doing the SAME THING the week before your game. USC did the same thing last year, Tubberville asked the voters to think about his team after their game against Tennesee. Stoops has been doing it all year. Stumping for your team is something you should do. Mack believes his team did everything they needed to in order to get in the BCS, and for whatever reason, Texas has been an afterthought all year.. its his JOB to do what he can to get his team considered. I would have been upset with him if he hadnt done anything.

Dude, if you could go back and read and listen to the things you said a year ago, you'd probably sound like a whiny bitch too.

Maybe, but our QB didnt call out another teams coach.
 

Dilbert

Member
Also, I don't know how I missed this the first time:

Some dumbshit Texas fan quoted without attribution said:
6. Quit harping on the Big 10/Pac 10 sanctity crap.
For years, the Rose Bowl has been diligent in preserving tradition by always inviting the champion of the Big 10, to play the champion of the Pac 10.

Three teams: Michigan, Cal, and Texas. Only one of them meets this tradition, and last time I checked, that team is going to the Rose Bowl. Tell me, again, how the tradition is being violated.
Hey, moron -- Texas is in the BIG 12. Michigan is in the Big Ten, and Cal is in the Pac-10. Guess which school doesn't belong?

I'm sorry, but quoting some guy as support when he's making a "point" based on flagrantly wrong data is just hilarious.
 
I live an hour from Austin and UT, and all the talk down here is about how Texas sneaked into the BCS, and how it's basically bullshit. Our local paper, who has a vote in the AP, ran two huge op-eds about how they're strongly considering relinquishing their vote until the NCAA fixes this shit. Very good reads...
 
Of course he was referring to Cal. Who the hell talked about Pitt all year long besides the Big East loons who are still in denial over what the ACC did to them? :lol :lol
 

marko

Member
Incognito said:
Of course he was referring to Cal. Who the hell talked about Pitt all year long besides the Big East loons who are still in denial over what the ACC did to them? :lol :lol

Big east fans aren't in denial. The ACC goal was to eliminate the big east from the BCS by taking Miami/VaTech, and with the larger conference, garner multiple BCS bids. Well, only 1 bid for ACC this year, and it is a marginal VaTech team (VaTech/Miami in fact have moved the ACC teams down, Virginia goes from Gator bowl to Boise St bowl for example with addition of Miami/Tech). The big east still has their auto BCS bid The acc was effective in making the big east a much less desirable football conference, and ACC tv revenue was increased and big east decreased therefor.

Basketball is another side of the story though. The acc has mucked with a perfect 9 team round robin system, and additions of Miami/VaTech lessen the conference. The verdict is out on the results of the ACC takeover and the benefits to the original ACC teams.


Ah, enough, just wasting my time. College football is ruled by the big school conferences (big 10/sec/big 12) since that is where most fans and the money is. That is why the acc went after Miami (and got VaTech/BC). This is why the big east faces an uphill battle to solidify their BCS status. That is why almost half the Div 1 college football teams are exluded from BCS(till Utah). That is why I am here replying to all these posts. oh well.

Oh, I'll stop posting these big east posts, got to stop butting in at first sign of big east slight.
 
Cyan said:
Oops, missed this the first time around. For Cal fans, it's not about 5th place. It's not about the BCS. It's not even about 14 million dollars, as cubsfan suggested. It's about the Rose Bowl. The Rose Bowl is the ultimate goal every year, for every team in the Pac-10 and Big 10. Cal has not been in the Rose Bowl for nearly fifty years. Old Blues thought this was finally our year. But despite a 10-1 year, despite our sole loss coming to the #1 team in the country, we missed out on the Rose Bowl due to the vagaries of the system.

That's why this is a big deal.


oh no, i understand that, and i understand Cal's and their fans gripe (i personally think they got screwed too, a WIN shouldn't lower your ranking, period.) but its not some huge injustice. I mean, Auburn made it through the SEC undefeated, those players did everything you can ask of them all season long, and they have zero chance at a national title. That to me is 100X more fucked up than Texas screwing Cal out of a nice BCS bonus.

This is why i think the whole BCS thing is stupid. Even though it'll never happen cause of the $$$/teams/conferences involved, they should just have a seperate "BCS Title Bowl" and stick to picking the no.1 and 2 teams and leave it at that. There's no reason to get 6 teams, cause honestly, unless you are gonna setup a playoff, i don't see the "prestige" in being selected as the 4th or 5th BCS team. Whats the big deal?
 
Utes got screwed big time. Go undefeated, bust into the BCS, and then don't even get to prove themselves against a fucking top 10 ranked team. Instead we get Big East shit that doesn't even deserve to be there.
 

Brian Fellows

Pete Carroll Owns Me
As a Michigan fan I'm happy that we get to play against maybe the only coach in D1 more overrated than our own.
 

element

Member
there is always an east coast bias. Cal came 6 points and one complete pass from beating the #1 team in the country (that was an amazing game, shocking to see that Aaron Rodgers isn't getting more attention), and decide to do the 'classy' thing and not run up the score and they get penialized for it.

BCS is a joke.

The system is broken when the #4 team in the country doesn't get to play in a 'serious' bowl, yet #12 Michigan, #20 Pitt, and #9 Virgina Tech end up getting invites.
 

Nerevar

they call me "Man Gravy".
marko said:
Big east fans aren't in denial. The ACC goal was to eliminate the big east from the BCS by taking Miami/VaTech, and with the larger conference, garner multiple BCS bids. Well, only 1 bid for ACC this year, and it is a marginal VaTech team (VaTech/Miami in fact have moved the ACC teams down, Virginia goes from Gator bowl to Boise St bowl for example with addition of Miami/Tech). The big east still has their auto BCS bid The acc was effective in making the big east a much less desirable football conference, and ACC tv revenue was increased and big east decreased therefor.

Is this a joke? The ACC's goal was to "eliminate" the Big East? Their goal was to increase their football revenue, get into lucrative TV markets they previously weren't in (Boston), and add a football title game that would generate an insane amount of money. Virginia Tech has wanted to be in the ACC ever since the breakup of the Southern conference, and it wouldn't have even joined if it wasn't for UVa pushing for them. Miami, like FSU in the "old" ACC, was always only in the conference to boost football. They found an infinitely many times more lucrative offer from the ACC and, guess what, jumped ship again. Keep in mind that this whole situation arose from the Big East going after big football money, just like the ACC is doing right now. To claim that the ACC had some "agenda" to destroy the Big East is retarded.

marko said:
Basketball is another side of the story though. The acc has mucked with a perfect 9 team round robin system, and additions of Miami/VaTech lessen the conference. The verdict is out on the results of the ACC takeover and the benefits to the original ACC teams.

Agreed, this result in basketball has dragged down the average talent of the ACC. That's why this is probably good for the Big East. It allows them to refocus on being a pure college basketball conference (what it was before big football money, with powerhouses like Georgetown ruling the roost), which means they're less likely to get burned by someone jumping ship for big football money again.

marko said:
Ah, enough, just wasting my time. College football is ruled by the big school conferences (big 10/sec/big 12) since that is where most fans and the money is. That is why the acc went after Miami (and got VaTech/BC). This is why the big east faces an uphill battle to solidify their BCS status. That is why almost half the Div 1 college football teams are exluded from BCS(till Utah). That is why I am here replying to all these posts. oh well.

You do realize that the Big East is one of the "big 6" power conferences in the NCAA? You're trying to paint some picture of the Big East as the MAC, but no one is going to be stupid enough to believe you. They are one of the founding members of the BCS. Their conference commissioner is the director. They have a guaranteed payout of 4 million every year. I can't understand how you refuse to recognize this.
 

marko

Member
Yes, I overdid it. I don't think the acc sat around and said "Let's destroy big east football", but taking 3 teams from big east has severly crippled big east football. I do however think the ACC did have a goal of weakening the big east enough to free up their auto BCS bid so their conference could have a better chance multiple bids.

I know the big east is founding BCS member and a current member. I'm not sure what my point was exactly in talking about the bigger conferences. I guess just that moreso than any other sport, fans matter in college football. Travel reputation help get conferences get better bowls, more fans mean better tv ratings. In this regard, the big east has become more like a mid major conference.
 

cubanb

Banned
heres mel kiper's thoughts on espninsider
Before we get to the individual players making noise around the country let's talk about the big story in college football right now: The failure of the BCS.

There has been plenty of talk about which teams deserve to be in the BCS championship game and it is certainly a shame that Auburn is being left out of the mix, but the real injustice is that one-loss California is being left out of the BCS altogether in favor of one-loss Texas.

Mack Brown and his Longhorns certainly deserve credit for a tremendous season, but here's how I see the argument for the Golden Bears over the Longhorns:


-California went to Hattiesburg, Miss., last week to play Southern Miss in a game that had been postponed, and a 26-16 win there at night, against a team with nothing to lose, is nothing to be ashamed of. That close margin of victory ultimately cost the Bears a chance to represent the Pac-10 in the Rose Bowl, though, because they lost enough points in the polls despite playing a bowl-bound team under immense pressure and scrutiny without a number of injured players.

-They say margin of victory has been removed from the equation, but it will always be in the minds of the voters. Coaches know they have to impress voters who might only see the final score of their games, so they will still fell the pressure to run the score up and get that extra touchdown. Should Jeff Tedford have thrown the ball in the final minute to get another score? And is that the kind of question we really want to ask?

-If you want to talk about close wins, then consider the fact that Texas only beat Arkansas by a 22-20 margin, Kansas by a 27-23 score thanks to some late-game heroics, and Missouri by a 28-20 final in a game that was played in Austin. All three of those teams finished with losing records. California's 28-27 win at home over a 5-7 Oregon team negates one of those close calls for the 'Horns, but not all three.


-Compare how each team played against its best competition: California took USC to the wire in a 23-17 loss in Los Angeles, while Texas was shut out by Oklahoma, 12-0, on a neutral field in Dallas.

Based on what we saw in the entire body of work for both teams I just don't see how any voter can place Texas ahead of California. That's not picking on Texas, that's just the facts speaking for themselves.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
1) Stop bitching about not getting into your precious Rose Bowl. Your conference joined the BCS, I dont want to hear about it. If you hate the fact that a Big 12 team is in the BCS, you and the Big 10 can leave the BCS and go back to your Rose Bowl. You didnt win your conference either, that was the other guys point.

2) The point of this thread isnt to say who should or should not have gone to the BCS, its to tell Cal fans to point their anger in the proper direction. A case can be made for either team.. Cal played USC better than we played OU. Both had close games. Texas SOS is significantly better and Texas played more ranked teams as well as more teams with winning records (Cal's opponents record was .500, Texas opponents were 11 games over that mark). So its sort of a toss up on what you weigh as being important.

3) I agree a team shouldnt be dropped because they won a game. However, Texas fell behind Utah because of the Kansas game in the AP poll. So its not like it only happened to Cal, it just happened to Cal in the last game of the season, so it gets more exposure.

4) Tedford took a knee instead of running up the score. We took knee's against ATM (our last game) when we could have scored. Vince Young also fumbled the ball after it seemed to have allready broken the plane of the endzone.. ATM ran that back for a touchdown.. so the phantom clipping call may have been a 7 point swing, but we had a 14 point swing against ATM.

5) After our last game (during a bye week for Cal) we lost ground in the human polls too. In fact, we manhandles a ranked team who happens to be one of our largest rivals (along with OU and Arkansas). So Cal drops because they play poorly against a bad team on the road, Texas drops because we handle a ranked rival game at home. Which seems worse? If that hadnt happened we would have passed Cal two weeks ago.

6) Mack Brown wasnt talking about Cal not deserving to go to the BCS. If you read anything he has said over the last two weeks (including before we jumped Cal) he said both teams should be in the BCS. Mack Brown wants the top 8 BCS teams to go regardless of conference championships.

7) If you DO want to blame a team for your situation, blame Arizona State losting to Zona. That loss KILLED Cal in the computer polls. Before that your SOS was on par with Texas and some polls were giving you a quality win bonus. Your computer average dropped an entire point as a result of that..
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
while I am here..

heroes.jpg

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yoink.jpg


The last one is pure comedy genious.. but it was made by a sooner. I guess they are good for something. Also, I now dislike Cal because for some reason all the sooners are rooting for us, and most of us are rooting for the sooners. I dont like that one bit.

brown_mack3.jpg
 
StoOgE said:
1) Stop bitching about not getting into your precious Rose Bowl. Your conference joined the BCS, I dont want to hear about it. If you hate the fact that a Big 12 team is in the BCS, ...

<SNIP>

You'd be bitching to high heaven if Texas were relegated to yet another Holiday Bowl trip in San Diego, so to tell Cal fans to quit their bitching is a little naieve. In fact, if Texas did manage to lose out again, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see multiple posts from you and other Texas fans advocating major overhauls in the BCS system. As it stands, all I see is, "Yeah, it's fucked up, but you shouldn't have won by only 10 against Ole Miss -- tough shit."

Until Texas can prove it can WIN over Oklahoma, and WIN their conference, they'll always be junior leauge to me. They were very close to 3 meltdowns this year, and for the Texas fans to jump on the Cal-Ole Miss result bandwagon as justification for them being in Rose Bowl is absolutely ridiculous.

Beat OU. Win the Big 12.

Then talk.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Incognito said:
Beat OU. Win the Big 12.

Then talk.

Its not like we have never done either before.

Besides, that part of my post (that you quoted) was in regards to the Big 10/Pac 10 people who want the sanctity of the Rose Bowl to remain intact by only having those two conferences go to it. You cant both be in the BCS and have your conference allways in one of the bowls. They can bitch all they want about not being in the BCS.. but the Rose Bowl is special crap is getting on my nerves.
 

Iceman

Member
The Cal-Texas switch is a joke. Cal beat a good non-conference team to end the season. And for that they lose a spot in the rankings to a team that didn't play that week? Garbage.
 
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