You didn't answer my question? I'll ask another way: Why do you think shows like Wipeout, or Alone, aren't considered sports?
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Are todays most popular sports terribly designed?
- Thread starter Men_in_Boxes
- Start date
diffusionx
Gold Member
I have no interest in watching a real world battle royale, sorry OP. But you stumble upon a good point, sports is culture, and the fact that BR is popular in movies and vidya right now, really popular, means that some people will try to turn it into a sport. Most of our modern sports came from the English academic scene of the mid-1800s, where it was believed that the demands of the empire required young men to be competitive, physical, tough, and athletic. The sports reflected that. Basketball evolved later, largely because, well, kids were getting really hurt by those older violent sports, and it came about right as North America was becoming ascendant on the world scene where they successfully exported it. It's no accident that basketball is super popular in the Philippines, which was taken over by the USA less than a decade after basketball was invented.
That said, the best sports are the ones that are closest to our nature. For example, two men facing off and beating each other up will always be popular. This sport has existed as long as there have been humans. The Greeks even had MMA. It will exist long after the last soccer stadium has turned into dust.
That said, the best sports are the ones that are closest to our nature. For example, two men facing off and beating each other up will always be popular. This sport has existed as long as there have been humans. The Greeks even had MMA. It will exist long after the last soccer stadium has turned into dust.
Every professional league has the same problems. MLB, NFL, and NBA all play too many games and are too bloated. All have stupid rules that bog down the action and make it more tedious than it should be. It is because it is a business first and sport second. This stuff self-corrects over time.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
They are sports. Look at the definitions provided.
Ok, so why do you think that, despite your definitions, these are defined as game shows and not as sports?
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daveonezero
Banned
Those are manufactured. Sports that are popular are mostly to simulate either battles or hunting in some way.
They are tests of skill strategy and athletics.
Competition exists without trophies and money. Humans are prideful and like to one up each other.
While I agree some of the money is exaggerated and probably too much it doesn’t take away from the mindset required to compete at the highest levels.
MastAndo
Member
I do believe a few of the more popular sports have inherent design flaws. Basketball is one of them. When watching two talented teams face up, it's basically just an exchange of meaningless buckets until the later moments when baskets actually matter. It's too easy to score, especially considering the insane talent level of modern players and made even worse now by the fact that defense is basically non-existent. Unless you're following your team, you might as well check out for most of the game and check back in in the last 5 minutes of a close game.
American football is a game that can be controlled too easily by the officials. There are penalties happening all the time (I'm convinced there is holding on every play), it's just a matter of if the refs choose to make the call or not. That's the last thing you want in a pro sport.
American football is a game that can be controlled too easily by the officials. There are penalties happening all the time (I'm convinced there is holding on every play), it's just a matter of if the refs choose to make the call or not. That's the last thing you want in a pro sport.
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AmuroChan
Member
Nice effort, but I'm good with my traditional sports. I barely have enough time now to watch all the games I want to watch. The year is already so packed. Right now we're in March madness + WBC. Baseball season begins soon as will the NBA playoffs. NFL and college football come after that. Then every other year we have either the Olympics or World Cup. I don't have the bandwidth to invest into a brand new sport.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I think when you look at the OP, you must ask yourself "What's OPs point with this idea? What is the interesting thing to discuss here?"
Debating the definitions of words is not interesting or relevant in this context. The meat worth getting off the bone is that todays most popular sports were made 100+ years ago. We can do better.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I agree.
And the giant survival war game described in the OP would be a far more interesting war / battle simulation than basketball or football.
I'm puzzled at the negative reaction at such a bloody brilliant idea. This concept would be fascinating.
Wheeljack539
Member
Honestly first thing I thought of after reading the OP is American Gladiators.
Fbh
Member
Not saying your idea couldn't be fun to watch but one big reason why the biggest sports are so popular is that they are simple, straightforward and anyone can play them.
Something like soccer/football can be played and enjoyed by nearly everyone of any social standing because ultimately all you need is an object to kick around and some friends to play with. It's easy to implement on a school level and also on an adult amateur level. Generally people like watching the professional version of activities they themselves participate in.
Videogames are no different, the most watched Esports events are stuff like LOL, DOTA, Valorant and Counter Strike. The one thing they have in common is that they are F2P and run on a potato PC, because a key part of their popularity is that almost anyone can play them. Try getting LOL or Counter Strike Numbers with some complex survival crafting game that requieres a PC with an RTX4090 to run.
Something like soccer/football can be played and enjoyed by nearly everyone of any social standing because ultimately all you need is an object to kick around and some friends to play with. It's easy to implement on a school level and also on an adult amateur level. Generally people like watching the professional version of activities they themselves participate in.
Videogames are no different, the most watched Esports events are stuff like LOL, DOTA, Valorant and Counter Strike. The one thing they have in common is that they are F2P and run on a potato PC, because a key part of their popularity is that almost anyone can play them. Try getting LOL or Counter Strike Numbers with some complex survival crafting game that requieres a PC with an RTX4090 to run.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
What you're suggesting has nothing to do with sport. It's like a mash up of a survival TV show, larping, Game of Thrones style politics and a touch of Assassin's Creed.
You've mentioned hunting for food as well. How are teams going to hunt animals? Will they have to kill the animals with just their hands, or will they try taking out a deer with a foam sword?
Actually, this idea sounds so insane that I might actually watch it. Watching some guy get critically injured trying to take out a stag with his fists, only to get taken out the game by an assassin with a painted foam dagger.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I hear you (people played it, can understand it, therefore they watch it) and I think the effect is mostly exaggerated.
Formula 1 is growing in popularity around the world and very few people know what it's like to race a high performance sports car.
The Marvel movies are the most successful films...ever and no one knows what it's like to be bitten by a radioactive spider.
Entertainment will beat out familiarity+simplicity (repetitiveness = boredom) 10/10 times.
War, politics, betrayal, survival are concepts innately fascinating to the human species. Todays popular sports don't explore or showcase them in any meaningful way.
To me, it's very analogous to videogames. Imagine if todays biggest videogames were Pong, Pac Man, and Tetris? We've moved on from those ancient titles because our game design knowledge has improved. Football, basketball, and baseball etc... are old busted games.
Don't get hung up on the word "sport". We're not discussing semantics here.
Btw, everyone would watch it. This idea would be crazy successful if implemented correctly.
Well it becomes relevant to the OP because you suggest that sports should turn into game shows. Honestly I think your idea is pretty great, I would watch such a show. I just don't see what it has to do with sports, which is kinda the point you make in the OP.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I guess to me, I just look at todays top sports as games. They're poorly designed games imo. I'm not necessarily saying we should define what the word sport means.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
I don't think your idea would be popular. People aren't going to turn away from traditional sports for this random survival game.
Do you think people really want to see a group hitting each other with foam swords? If that were the case then larping would be more popular than it is already.
Then there are the politics? Why? I don't want to watch a bunch of strangers sit down and try and diplomatically resolve the conflict.
The only way this is popular is if you do 2 things.
1) make the weapons real. I'm talking real medieval weapons.
2) add in dangerous animals to hunt the contestants.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Alone is on it's 9th season. This thing would break records.
I'm obviously not challenging the NFL with this concept in the first few years...it would need to grow organically...but by year 5 or 6 the NFL is completely f***ed. I am confident I can get Zion Williamson to sign a NWL contract once his current NBA deal ends. Money talks.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
okay, now I know you're trolling.
The secret of making a troll post/thread is being subtle. If you go too far you give the game away. Never go full troll.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I hereby officially ban IDKFA from investing in, or participating in, the NWL. Duration: Lifetime ban.
I never forget a face.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
A good one too. My bro and I saw the Malibu episode. They changed the rules after where contestants cant sick out their legs anymore. They could only do cannonball style which sucked. lol
ThePringler
Neo Member
this is Musk talking about chess. He sounds ridiculous and so do you
PaddyOCanager
Member
There are sports, and then there are games. The audience you're trying to reach knows the difference whether they can articulate it or not. You are marketing a game to sports fans.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I disagree.
The battle is over eyeballs.
Males with testosterone are drawn towards conflict. I simply created a superior conflict.
Many people can't comprehend the inherent weaknesses of modern sport because it's all they've ever known.
Do as Steve Jobs says "Think differently."
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Spaceman292
Banned
May as well just give them swords
Spaceman292
Banned
Bro there's a whole thread telling you why your idea is dumb just let it go
Heimdall_Xtreme
Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
This is better than any ESPN Sport channel or Netflix sport program.
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PaddyOCanager
Member
Have you ever competed seriously in a sport before? I'm curious to know the inherent weaknesses you experienced.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
There are whole flat earth threads (elsewhere on the internet) telling the round earthers who stumble in that their idea is dumb as well. Some minds aren't changed by recognizing what everyone else is doing/thinking.
Yes. I've lusted for manly competition since I won my escape from the womb. It's why I defend the raddest, most competitive multiplayer games of today.
Football sucks because you don't get to see player personalities on field. All the strategies are extremely basic and repetitive. There's very few brilliant ideas in an NFL season that translates to wins. Players tell you nothing in interviews. Coaches tell you even less. All the "water cooler moments" basically boil down to "The refs blew it on that play" or "Did you see that catch". Every year is the same strategies with different logo colors. Kurt Warner threw it all over the field in one era. Mahomes is doing the same this era. Yawn...
Again, if videogames have advanced past 1970 game design, why do some of you think we shouldn't advance past 1910 sport design?
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Well I get what you mean, I'm not that much into Sports but I'm always amazed how much strategy, willpower and quick thinking something like Tour de France requires. I do cycle touring myself so I guess that's why.
If you need some participants for your game show, sign me up!
Spaceman292
Banned
Okay I think we know what this thread is REALLY about
Laieon
Member
Kid Nation - Wikipedia
Bring it back!
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
What's the point of sport?
Lunarorbit
Member
Baseball.... I mean I liked it for awhile but it's just so boring. Cricket fans must be super human.
I think that's why squid games was popular. There's been lots of "innovation" in the shlocky dating shows like fuck boy Island.
Having not seen road rules/real world challenges before covid I was impressed, at least in the early seasons. I think this is a good example of ops idea
I think that's why squid games was popular. There's been lots of "innovation" in the shlocky dating shows like fuck boy Island.
Having not seen road rules/real world challenges before covid I was impressed, at least in the early seasons. I think this is a good example of ops idea
kuncol02
Banned
Socially accepted gambling and live tv transmissions.
March Climber
Member
Your frustration with sports not evolving into something more, matches my frustration with console controllers not evolving the standard beyond dual joysticks for 25 years.
It’s mainly annoying for games that require precision aiming, and for some reason too many people push back against gyro aim, which seems like the most reasonable compromise to enhance something old.
TheGrat1
Member
Nah, I'll just watch stuff like this OP:
On tv and in person. Thanks, though.
On tv and in person. Thanks, though.
It is basically mob football, the progenitor of the popular football codes.
Mans really came after my hoops with some Steam early access type survival crafting game show.
LarsQMorient
Neo Member
Too many subjective rules exist in team sports and contact sports.
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Cyberpunkd
Member
Theory: All of todays most successful modern sports leagues are terrible games to watch. They were all designed 100+ years ago when throwing a ball through a peach basket was considered wild.
Why aren't we seeing interesting spectator sports pop up that are designed with todays knowledge and technology in mind?
I just watched this show. It was scripted garbage. However, it did get me thinking that something interesting could grow out of it. Consider the following idea...
*4 - 6 "teams" are randomly dropped in the wilderness on a 5 mile by 5 mile grid.
*Teams are comprised of 10 players.
*Each team has a prebuilt compound with walls like this...
*Teams must survive by hunting and searching for food, firewood etc...
*Teams are given soft sword like weapons that put paint on opponents they strike. Get hit, you're removed from the game.
*The 4-6 teams must survive + wage war on one another until there's one team left.
*Politics, assassins, warfare, survival etc are all captured using cameramen, positioned cameras, and drones.
*Offseaaons would see teams retain previous seasons players as well as a % of new blood.
Who the **** wouldn't watch this?! Why is no one challenging 100+ year old sports with this survivor, Game of Thrones type stuff? Why are billionaires spending money trying to get the XFL and USFL off the ground when it's all more of the same? Videogames have taken the next step. Why are sports so flat footed?! Happy Sunday y'all!
Your idea for a game: 20 different rules
Rules for football: take this ball, use only your feet, shoot it into the net there.
The 100-year old sports are incredibly popular because everybody gets them and everybody can participate with almost no learning curve. Go overengineer something else.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I like how Idiocracy is your defense.
People can't comprehend much more than "kick ball in net". Tribal war game too hard, make brain hurt.
Cyberpunkd
Member
Or differently: simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I suppose tribal war game is like Cyberpunk2077. Too complicated. People just want to play pong today.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
Chronicle
Member
Really?
Last night on International TV we had the two best baseball players Mike trout and shohei ohtani square off against each other- pitcher vs batter, teammate vs teammate, MVP vs MVP and country vs country in a game deciding showdown. It was something unbelievable.
And that's just one night. Basketball has been great. Connor McDavid in hockey is doing unbelievable things. Been upsets in ncaa basketball etc.
And here you're crying about some 'rust-like' sport.
I'm sorry but get a fucking life if the former doesn't satisfy you. Unreal!
I bet you're cheer leaders would be fucking raccoons too!
Last night on International TV we had the two best baseball players Mike trout and shohei ohtani square off against each other- pitcher vs batter, teammate vs teammate, MVP vs MVP and country vs country in a game deciding showdown. It was something unbelievable.
And that's just one night. Basketball has been great. Connor McDavid in hockey is doing unbelievable things. Been upsets in ncaa basketball etc.
And here you're crying about some 'rust-like' sport.
I'm sorry but get a fucking life if the former doesn't satisfy you. Unreal!
I bet you're cheer leaders would be fucking raccoons too!
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
LMAO.
For kids to play football in the streets, they just need a football and something to make into a goal (we used a pair of jumpers when I was at school). Traditional sports are popular because their easy for anybody to play.
For your "sport" they'd need to build a fort, have foam swords and paint, know how to hunt and kill animals with their bare hands (plus skinning them and gutting just by hand) and come equipped with copies of The Republic and The Prince. Might as well add in Dressage and Kendo to make it even more complex.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
No no no.
All those kids kicking a soccer ball around watch Marvel movies, Game of Thrones, Star Wars etc...
The idea that basic wargames as sport is too complex for people is absurd. You don't need to take a fencing class to appreciate lightsaber duels do you?
War as sport is superior. This thread proves it.
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Watching adults tickle each other with foam swords isn't war.
The only way this insane idea is interesting is by replacing the foam swords with real medieval weapons, plus dropping in animals to hunt the players (Polar bears, Siberian Tigers etc). Then it becomes something special. Currently, it's just larping with extra steps.