I don't fall into the line of thinking that just because someone who supports an argument is a hypocrite, that means that said person's entire argument is invalidated. Just because the town idiot has a moment of epiphany doesn't mean we negate his idea because of his past track record. Take it with a grain of salt? Maybe, but simply refuting his viewpoint on the grounds that he's a hypocrite doesn't add anything to the discussion.RedStep said:
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Can we get a moratorium on transgendered slurs? (other recommendations welcomed ITT)
- Thread starter RiskyChris
- Start date
- Status
Poor wording on my behalf. I just mean to say I think it should be within the rules. As in, the person should not be banned for it.game-boi said:
I just don't think someone should be banned for what they say unless they are directly attacking or disparaging someone. Grow up and ignore it.
RiskyChris
Banned
Jim Stark said:
Thank you, it's a single fucking word, people.
calcaneus said:
I am sometimes aggressive. I've been overwhelmingly civil in this thread and patient. The posts are there.
Hex said:
No, that doesn't give you free reign to act like a bigot.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
RiskyChris said:
Jesus loves you.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Well I used to use the word "tranny"FoneBone said:
Reducing what it means to be a woman to simply choosing to dress and act like one is similarly ridiculous, but that's exactly what you did, isn't it?FoneBone said:
Choosing to have a sex change operations and all that goes along with it is a choice that some people make. My wife doesn't have a choice. She was born a woman and for the last twenty years of her life has had to endure monthly pain that sometimes prevents her from being able to do the simplest everyday tasks. So I find your insinuation that dressing and acting feminine is the same as being a woman, quite offensive.
RiskyChris
Banned
dave is ok said:
No, that is fucking false.
FoneBone said:
Go look at the craigslist or backpage personals or take a trip to thailand or south america and tell me that those are all going though a "deeply painful process".
Like everything else, there are degrees and various situations.
Trying to pretend that it is all noble and deep for everyone to legitimize your own experiences is a bit reaching.
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
dave is ok said:
In terms of their gender identity it isn't.
dave is ok said:
Noway do I agree with this in that context, you basically saying that a MTF can't be classed as a women and that's ridiculous imo.
You guys are placing too much emphasis on the 'physical' aspect of gender.
captmcblack
Member
Do transgendered/transsexual people call each other "trannies"?
Do people call transgendered/transsexual people "trannies" the same way someone might call me "ni**er"?
I always understood "tranny" to be the literal shortform version of the word "transsexual", and I didn't think it was a word that was used alone as an insult to transsexual people. I'm sure that it could be used alone as an insult to non-transsexual people, but that would be a problem with the people using the word like that ("why is it offensive/bad to be a transsexual person?" would be the appropriate question here) rather than the word itself being bad, I'd imagine.
I have yet to need to reference transsexual people on this forum (or pretty much anywhere; the topic isn't exactly common in my day-to-day discourse, lol), but if it really is decided that it's a slur on GAF, then I will take care to refrain from using it. It does strike me as odd that it is a bad word, though.
Do people call transgendered/transsexual people "trannies" the same way someone might call me "ni**er"?
I always understood "tranny" to be the literal shortform version of the word "transsexual", and I didn't think it was a word that was used alone as an insult to transsexual people. I'm sure that it could be used alone as an insult to non-transsexual people, but that would be a problem with the people using the word like that ("why is it offensive/bad to be a transsexual person?" would be the appropriate question here) rather than the word itself being bad, I'd imagine.
I have yet to need to reference transsexual people on this forum (or pretty much anywhere; the topic isn't exactly common in my day-to-day discourse, lol), but if it really is decided that it's a slur on GAF, then I will take care to refrain from using it. It does strike me as odd that it is a bad word, though.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Now I'm confused.
Are we talking about people who seriously have issues with the societal norms of gender roles. Or people who dress as women to get their rocks off?
Are we talking about people who seriously have issues with the societal norms of gender roles. Or people who dress as women to get their rocks off?
Instigator
Banned
RiskyChris said:
Some people are born with extra limbs and whatever. There's no need to add bipedal or in the process of being one. Similarly, the vast majority of boys are born as boys. it makes much more sense to point out the exception rather than have a constant reminder that, sometimes, a boy born as a boy might not feel like a boy 15-30 years from now.
Yes, you can check this thread here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401886
That Chris fellow shot himself in the foot right there.
This is why the "you're whiteknighting!" meme is so annoying. If Chris is such a poor advocate for his cause, why not address that directly instead of personally attacking him? That accusation doesn't carry the weight that many of the posters here, including yourself, thinks it does.Instigator said:
Just as a point of reference: this is not what most people would call "civil."RiskyChris said:
Jim Stark said:
Its natural to defend its use for a bit , since most people dont see that history attached. Before this thread I know I never thought of it in a negative way, only slang. And for a second there, I too was thinkin everyone is being over sensitive. Tranny seems like callin a girl "shorty" cuz shes short...not cuz we hate short people. Just a nickname with no ill intent. But if truely has that history you mention, there isnt much for debate.
And I will have to take people's word for it that it really does have that history. I'm not gay, but if I hear someone yell "FAG!" in public it immediately seems offensive...it pings you in a specific way when you hear it. "Nigger" "Spic" "WetBack"...all these carry that weight of, damn, cant believe someone went there. Tranny doesnt seem to carry this sense of hatred and offensiveness, but apparently it does. I gotta admit that even though I'm not gonna really defend the term, I'm kinda doubtful its on the level of the words I mentioned
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
RiskyChris said:
No, because a transexual should be clear about what exactly is going on before getting into it. Otherwise, I wouldn't judge a guy bad for saying 'a tranny trapped me' I'd be more likely to say 'fuuuuuuuuuck' sympathise with him, then laugh at him secretly.
Like it or not, for a lot of men, the idea of having sex with a transsexual is gross.
You'll find people that will vote for their rights, back them if they are being victimised etc, but if that same man was to unknowingly have sex with one and find out during/right after, their opinion will quickly change on the matter and probably all matters regarding transsexuals and their rights, forever.
you're posting too many things as fact. Gender largely being a 'social construct' is nonsense.
I look in my pants and see wang, that's me being a boy. Not cause society said.
RiskyChris
Banned
Rickard said:
Care to contribute or tell me which of my recent posts turned down the level of discourse, or is it going to be more character assassination?
AVclub said:
No, it's offensive that you say someone can't present as the gender they wish and be respected just as any other member of the community.
catfish said:
This doesn't explicitly make you a male, otherwise preop mtf would be men too.
Yea how ironic. I've been reading this whole thread. This post actually caused me to post how stupid of a reply this is.Lambtron said:
I dont want to argue over the internet, would much rather finish reading the thread first. If its worth it I'll post my opionion. I'm on the side that doesnt find "tranny" offensive unless its used offensively at the time, just like any other word.
Sirpopopop
Member
Wthermans said:
It certainly does.
I'm less inclined to support Chris precisely because he is a hypocrite. It certainly diminishes any claims that he is doing this out of any sense of respect for the idea of persecution as a whole, or, of creating equality for all unfairly persecuted groups on GAF.
With that said, back on ignore he goes.
My beef here is that in all this time we've never had a problem with the word on NeoGaf before. Tranny surprise has been a meme for god knows how long, and nobody ever popped up to say "Hey that shit's offensive". Until all of a sudden Chris has a problem with it and now it's an issue?
I'm with the crowd that says it's only offensive when used in an offensive manner. As in quite clearly used to put someone down or used in a derogatory manner towards someone.
I'm with the crowd that says it's only offensive when used in an offensive manner. As in quite clearly used to put someone down or used in a derogatory manner towards someone.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
OK.
As a Born Again Christian, let me lay down the law here.
Sex is biological and cannot be changed.
Gender is a social construct.
Some people, do not feel comfortable, for a large number of reasons, within their social prescribed gender roles. Thus, they become trans-gendered! Because they identify with a different or modified gender role.
As a Born Again Christian, let me lay down the law here.
Sex is biological and cannot be changed.
Gender is a social construct.
Some people, do not feel comfortable, for a large number of reasons, within their social prescribed gender roles. Thus, they become trans-gendered! Because they identify with a different or modified gender role.
Wthermans said:
I'm not saying that it makes the discussion pointless. I mean that it removes all value from his comments. What I'm saying is that you can't just choose one group to protect without being a hypocrite. As so many have mentioned, there are the overweight, those with eating disorders, the mentally challenged, the mentally ill, those who belong to minority religions, and others.
I don't think I've ever even used the word "tranny" in any context. I've never had occasion to. But while we're striking words, will you agree to ban "fat", "anorexic", "retard / retarded", "crazy", "Jesus Christ" and "Goddamn" (and drawings of the prophet) from your vocabulary in order to be more sensitive to those groups? It's just 6.5 words (and one drawing).
Sirpopopop
Member
Yes Jim.
I know it's surprising that the way you come across can affect how people perceive your message.
SHOCKING I KNOW!
I know it's surprising that the way you come across can affect how people perceive your message.
SHOCKING I KNOW!
Mechanical Snowman
Member
Regarding the word tranny - It's all about intent, IMO.
RiskyChris uses the word "queer" freely without indenting it to be offensive: therefore it's not offensive.
Why isn't this the case with the word tranny? It's a double standard, and it's condescending to imply that the word is insulting to all transgender men and women no matter what context it is used in.
Though I do agree with the point that you should refer to a TG as the gender they assign themselves. Otherwise, you are being intentionally insulting for the sake of it.
Anyway, that's my LTTP opinion.
RiskyChris uses the word "queer" freely without indenting it to be offensive: therefore it's not offensive.
Why isn't this the case with the word tranny? It's a double standard, and it's condescending to imply that the word is insulting to all transgender men and women no matter what context it is used in.
Though I do agree with the point that you should refer to a TG as the gender they assign themselves. Otherwise, you are being intentionally insulting for the sake of it.
Anyway, that's my LTTP opinion.
KibblesBits
Member
I'm not sure about everyone else but I do feel strongly that this thread has helped to promote some awareness and understanding of how transgendered slurs can be harmful even as jokes to others.
I wish that more people would take the time to read the thread and look past the nonsense and troll baiting to look at the real issues at hand.
While I understand that there is much dislike for being told what words one can and cannot use I think that as responsible mature individuals we can try to perhaps educate ourselves on topics that are pointed out as sensitive to others.
A major recurring theme I find in this thread is people voicing the opinion that using the word transgendered or transsexual is too long, thus propping up their reasons for using the word tranny. Well, tranny is actually longer than the word trans by one letter. If you want to be lazy why not use the word trans which is much more acceptable and less likely to be seen as a slur or derogatory? If your intent is to simply show how rude or crass or hurtful you wish to be then by all means use tranny and its variants as you please but be ready for the resulting aftermath of upsetting others and being called out for it.
Shidoshi your contribution to this thread was stellar and while emotional it was able to give others some insight into what is truly harmful about words and their usage and intent. I was glad to see your post as Chris began to become bogged down with frustration.
Chris, I'm concerned that perhaps I shouldn't have encouraged you to create this thread. Part of the manner in which you deal with others can be off putting and while your intentions are usually honorable and quite noble you degrade your argument by falling into using foul language and implying that others are lesser for simply not knowing as much as they might need to. In the future when you take a stand about social injustice it will help you to try to avoid this behavior but I can understand that you are passionate about how you feel about things and when one is passionate they tend to lose their focus.
As for my opinion? I think that the intent of the words are much more damaging than the words themselves and that applies for all words. We get so caught up with our 'freedom' of speech and anonymity on the internet that often it is hard to find sympathy for the other because we are so caught up with concepts of the self. This applies to the Just-World theory that many people express but I am beginning to digress.
Good Job, well done. I hope there is more learning to be had and less trolling and antagonism.
I wish that more people would take the time to read the thread and look past the nonsense and troll baiting to look at the real issues at hand.
While I understand that there is much dislike for being told what words one can and cannot use I think that as responsible mature individuals we can try to perhaps educate ourselves on topics that are pointed out as sensitive to others.
A major recurring theme I find in this thread is people voicing the opinion that using the word transgendered or transsexual is too long, thus propping up their reasons for using the word tranny. Well, tranny is actually longer than the word trans by one letter. If you want to be lazy why not use the word trans which is much more acceptable and less likely to be seen as a slur or derogatory? If your intent is to simply show how rude or crass or hurtful you wish to be then by all means use tranny and its variants as you please but be ready for the resulting aftermath of upsetting others and being called out for it.
Shidoshi your contribution to this thread was stellar and while emotional it was able to give others some insight into what is truly harmful about words and their usage and intent. I was glad to see your post as Chris began to become bogged down with frustration.
Chris, I'm concerned that perhaps I shouldn't have encouraged you to create this thread. Part of the manner in which you deal with others can be off putting and while your intentions are usually honorable and quite noble you degrade your argument by falling into using foul language and implying that others are lesser for simply not knowing as much as they might need to. In the future when you take a stand about social injustice it will help you to try to avoid this behavior but I can understand that you are passionate about how you feel about things and when one is passionate they tend to lose their focus.
As for my opinion? I think that the intent of the words are much more damaging than the words themselves and that applies for all words. We get so caught up with our 'freedom' of speech and anonymity on the internet that often it is hard to find sympathy for the other because we are so caught up with concepts of the self. This applies to the Just-World theory that many people express but I am beginning to digress.
Good Job, well done. I hope there is more learning to be had and less trolling and antagonism.
RiskyChris said:
Fuck that. All of them.
I've been reading this thread steady since its inception. For the last little while, before you came back, there was steady discourse occurring in relation to interesting topics. I was deeply enjoying the read and then all of a sudden your dumbass comes back and immediately starts a bunch of stupid fucking arguments.
And what the fuck do you mean by "Character assassination"?
Go fuck yourself man. I'm sick of your bullshit.
Hey RiskyChris you should stop posting.
People are more interested in 'attacking' your 'white knighting' than debating the thread subject.
EDIT: I know that many of you guys are having a reasonable debate here but you know what i mean. :lol
People are more interested in 'attacking' your 'white knighting' than debating the thread subject.
EDIT: I know that many of you guys are having a reasonable debate here but you know what i mean. :lol
BattleMonkey
Member
Mechanical Snowman said:
Seeing the countless "I didn't know it was a slur" in this thread seems pretty clear most people don't have any negative conotation to the words.
"Queer" is much more accepted for the LGBT community than "tranny" is among trans people I'd say. Though I understand there's some ambiguity and confusionMechanical Snowman said:
Which is why I'd say this thread has accomplished something worthwhile (albeit more in spite of RiskyChris than because of)BattleMonkey said:
Why does it matter what his intentions are when what he is saying has merit? Simply dismissing his ideal because he doesn't follow it is rather close-minded IMO. If he's a hypocrite, call him out on it, but don't close your mind to what he's championing until you have other reasons for disagreeing with it other than "this random person talking to me about this ideal does not follow the same ideal he is supporting".Sirpopopop said:
Arguments are good, it's the people that distort them that are the problem (and who should be brought to light as a fraud).
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Nearly half the hostility in this thread comes from the thread starter, who takes it upon himself to lecture Gaf on porn, judging women as 'ugly', and I believe he even championed incest.Wthermans said:
When someone takes it as a personal insult every time you insult someone, it becomes less and less likely you're going to take them seriously in the future. It's gotten so bad that people post RC batsignals in threads he hadn't even posted in, and people say MORE offensive things than normal because they know it will piss off him alone. He's clearly not above derailing a thread or insulting the religious.
This topic, no matter how noble, was doomed to dissention the moment he started it.
I personally have no problem modifying my vocabulary to use the word trans rather than tranny. I absolutely refuse to refer to people as cis-boys, it's a crime against language.
And I still believe in full disclosure before intercourse if you don't want to be seen as an asshole.
SimpleDesign
Member
Car Transmission?hamchan said:
KibblesBits
Member
hamchan said:
I tend to disagree here. If you are referring to an individual as trans you are generally stating their gender may have been changed or is in flux.
If you are referring to an inanimate object using trans it could mean a whole different thing.
RiskyChris
Banned
I'm out, people are too petty to let me speak on a subject without resorting to baseless claims. This is ridiculous. I may post the quote-chain I was building from the posts thus far and from early this morning, but I can't stand not being able to partake in a conversation because people say I can't.
Yes it does, absolutely. A black person doing someone bad doesn't make it ok to start spouting nigger.
Dead said:
Yes it does, absolutely. A black person doing someone bad doesn't make it ok to start spouting nigger.
- Status