• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Can we talk about pop-in?

Why is this graphical problem so ignored nowadays when we have consoles capable of reducing them by a big margin??

Pop in has always been one of my biggest pet peeves about graphics. Almost every AAA game out now has them in droves, with only a few devs making any effort to mitigate or hide them from the player's face..

I'd rather see a subpar texture than a whole field of grass popping in out of nowhere in front of the player, is there any reason devs (and players) just don't care about it?
 
I care about it for all of two minutes before I get immersed in the game's local environment. I am more concerned with inconsistent framepacing as it breaks that immersion.
 
Last edited:

iHaunter

Member
Pop-in is the main reason that BDO will always be a trash game. I don't know why, but K-MMOs always have the worst engines. Not like it matters, their games are P2W trash anyway.
 

Quantum253

Member
Popped in to say that it's been around for almost all my gaming life. Would it be nice to see it gone, yes! But it probably won't be since we have really powerful systems and it still exists albeit better than it was on ps1/ps2 days
 

Bartski

Gold Member
Same here. I absolutely hate it to the point I prefer graphics to be lower fidelity in general than to see LODs swapping in my face

Epic engineers spent years working on Nanite to eliminate pop-in, so its time is hopefully numbered. At least in UE games.

Which is funny as some recent UE5 games that run nanite have pop-in much worse than last gen's UE4 titles, still hope you're right
 
I'm used to it since forever, but honestly I'm kind of surprised to see it rather commonplace in XSX and PS5 games still today.
 
Pop-in at this point is not an issue with hardware but engine. Most engines can not process a lot of data at the same time, specially shadows.
 

Sushi_Combo

Member
You'd hope that with SSD's in every console, a custom built one for Ps5, you'd see a reduction but it's still there! Devs are not taking advantage or are unable to do so with their engine limitations.
 
Last edited:

Shin-Ra

Junior Member
What about those momentary bright ‘holes’ at the edges of the viewport when you whizz the camera around. Like overaggressive occlusion culling or parts of culled geometry are too slow to load back in.

Shit should be called anal bleaching, why does it have to contrast so much against the general scene brightness?
 

SJRB

Gold Member
I think a lot of current devs have found very elegant, non-intrusive ways to deal with lod and pop-in. It’s only apparent when you actively look for it.

As tech progresses and ssd / memory bandwidth expands, this will become less and less an issue.
 

Skifi28

Member
I think it's much better than the previous generation. In most current stuff I have a difficult times noticing it.
 

NinjaBoiX

Member
This is one of my main hopes for GTA6, especially bearing in mind they don’t have to worry about last gen.

I don’t mind some minimal pop-up in most games, but a R* open world drawn as far as the eye can see?

Lawdy…
 

kiphalfton

Member
By the time you see it you've already bought the game and they've made their money

So why would devs care about fixing this issue.
 

Sakura

Member
I know pop-in was crazy back in the day, with games like Halo 2 and stuff, but I haven't had a problem with it lately. Maybe I just don't play those kinds of games though.
 

FeralEcho

Member
Pop in and aliasing,my worst gaming nightmares.I don't know which one i hate more...but it's shocking they're both still not resolved to this day with how powerful these consoles are,though lessof an issue with aliasing nowadays compared to older gens wuth high resolutions.Still, I'd rather take a lower res and better antialiasing and better LODs than what we have on most games today.
 

mansoor1980

Gold Member
in games like cyberpunk 2077 fast traversal makes it even more apparent , lets see what gta6 does in 2025 since they got rid of it in RDR2
 

CamHostage

Member
Why is this graphical problem so ignored nowadays when we have consoles capable of reducing them by a big margin??

Pop in has always been one of my biggest pet peeves about graphics. Almost every AAA game out now has them in droves, with only a few devs making any effort to mitigate or hide them from the player's face..

I'd rather see a subpar texture than a whole field of grass popping in out of nowhere in front of the player, is there any reason devs (and players) just don't care about it?

So, I'm curious why you believe these new consoles have unique powers to drastically reduce pop-in that is being ignored?

PS5 and Xbox Series have much faster IO, and that helps a ton, and then virtualized geometry techniques like Nanite can mitigate pop-in visibility. (It actually in a way "increases pop-in" since every object is recalculating its surface constantly based on the master mesh and the visibility of that object in a scene, but the change is on a micro level instead of the defined LODs before and so ideally you will never notice the difference even though it's changing way more often.) UE also has introduced and will continue to create solutions for virtual/dynamic assets in textures and shadows (and audio), same for other engines. The basics are getting better.

However, we're still dealing with multiple layers of quality passes and interdependent textures/shaders for intricately detailed scenes with large numbers of objects in a scene and complex detail (and varied approaches of how to apply that detail to a material) across an often open world, under a limited amount of compute speed... it's a lot. More than before, even with more powerful hardware. (You've even got dynamic shaders and realtime shaders and other elements creating scene-dependent elements on the fly or on-call, and if the timing is off, you'll get a compilation pop.)



Nobody has solved the problem, there's not a one-size-fits-all solution that developers just are too lazy to bother with. Everybody is working to squash issues as well as they can, and the engine manufacturers are coming up with global solutions which knock off the biggest annoyances. Sometimes development schedules affect what they can put in the box or what they can test before launch and so they patch afterwards with greater data reports, but it's not that they didn't have However, there's no magic bullet. In fact, I can't find it but I remember a different tech chat from around the Nanite reveal that was complementary of the geometry solution but still warned that, as games get from 10s of thousands+ of shaders and permutations to millions and beyond, timing issues will get worse not better because it's impossible to actually solve for virtually infinite combinations of variations. And hopefully the answer will be in finding ways of best hiding what cannot technically be eliminated.

 
Last edited:

calistan

Member
I've been playing Ready or Not on PC, and in the target range on the training level you can see your bullet holes when you're zoomed in but they disappear when you zoom back out.

That was on the default recommended settings, and it was fixable by tweaking some options, but not what you really want to see when starting a game for the first time.

I've noticed it in CoD MW 3 on Xbox too, where windows in certain MP levels are opaque when zoomed out but clear when zoomed in.
 

Comandr

Member
Epic engineers spent years working on Nanite to eliminate pop-in, so its time is hopefully numbered. At least in UE games.
Fort Solis was the first game I experienced this in and it's really something. Being able to navigate the world without any visible pop in really lends itself to immersion. Love it or hate it, UE5 is going to be doing amazing things in a couple years.
 

ChiefDada

Gold Member
Pop in has always been one of my biggest pet peeves about graphics. Almost every AAA game out now has them in droves, with only a few devs making any effort to mitigate or hide them from the player's face..

You and me both, brother. I've posted threads on it myself.

Have you checked out SM2? It's not perfect, but considering the amount of geometry, RT and speed you're moving through the city I think it's best in the biz for minimal pop-in.

 
It's the sort of thing you get used to if you play games on PS and Xbox. A friend turned on Hogwarts for me and how bad the pop in was one of the things I found shockingly bad. I'm used to playing Nintendo games and I don't remember pop in offending me in botw.
 

Denton

Member
Which is funny as some recent UE5 games that run nanite have pop-in much worse than last gen's UE4 titles, still hope you're right
Once I fixed the texture pop-in (fixable via single command in engine.ini, bizzare oversight by developers), I have yet to notice any pop-in in Robocop.
 

Robb

Gold Member
Agreed, I really hate pop-in in general.
a3f.gif

Sad Jim Carrey GIF


I replayed BotW on Switch before TotK and man.. The pop in was way worse than I remembered, to the point I was gliding down from a mountain only for an enemy camp to appear out of nowhere and ruin my landing.

I have no idea what they did in TotK but somehow they managed to improve it a ton. Although I’d still wish it was even better.
 

Bartski

Gold Member
Once I fixed the texture pop-in (fixable via single command in engine.ini, bizzare oversight by developers), I have yet to notice any pop-in in Robocop.
Havent played Robocop, but Lords Of The Fallen uses nanite for umbral meshes. Since there are no low-detail versions, what happens is whole chunks of surface detail and geometry spawn and despawn in front of you. The end result looks much worse than what you'd expect with LOD swaps in UE4. Not up to me to judge whether this is due to horsepower or badly optimized code, and I hope we will see nanite and similar tech eventually rise to its potential.
 

HoodWinked

Member
It's a hard problem. The game has to essentially anticipate an object before you come across it.

Say you move in a straight line. Then it is easy as it fetches stuff in front. But if you turn 90 degrees it now has to pause and load that instead. So to compensate the game loads more and more stuff it may not use just in case. Which leaves less cycles to render the current frame.
 

SimTourist

Member
Remember when people claimed that SSDs in this gen's consoles would eliminate pop-in? Except pop-in is there because the GPU can't render everything in full quality at all distances. Sometimes pop-in is due to low speed of storage, but most of the time it's not.
 
Top Bottom