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[lughnasadh123]

There is no hyperbole. And why are you coming off so aggressive? People have different opinions.

His post from the beginning was nothing but pure aggression all throughout. Come on.

Don't like dialog in a game or in a time crunch? Skip it like everyone else has done at one point. Making a whine post how his time waster of a hobby is wasting time AND ruining modern gaming? Lmao, nah. It's being ridiculous for no reason other than to stomp around the forums.

 

[StueyDuck]

His post from the beginning was nothing but pure aggression all throughout. Come on.

Don't like dialog in a game or in a time crunch? Skip it like everyone else has done at one point. Making a whine post how his time waster of a hobby is wasting time AND ruining modern gaming? Lmao, nah. It's being ridiculous for no reason other than to stomp around the forums.

go outside dude, get some air.

 

[JimmyRustler]

I agree it was especially bad in FFXVI but come on… it was always like this. People just don‘t have the attention span any more.

 

[lughnasadh123]

yep, average twitter shitposter.

Or I just disagree with overly dramatic position. Sorry, I'll let you get back to saving modern gaming. Godspeed man. Thankyou for sparing your precious time for it.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I only have limited time at night after the toddler is asleep, and man, some nights with FFXVI, I don't even think I fought an enemy. It was talking to a few NPCs, maybe craft something or fetch something, then time was up.
It is getting ridiculous.

 

[Kurotri]

I've been experiencing this with Starfield. I'm pretty sure I've started to skip like half the dialogue because it's literally useless and I get the gist of it all anyway. It doesn't even feel like I missed anything at all.

 

[StueyDuck]

Or I just disagree with overly dramatic position. Sorry, I'll let you get back to saving modern gaming. Godspeed man. Thankyou for sparing your precious time for it.

you aren't disagreeing you are acting like chode.

disagreeing is saying "i disagree"

And god forbid you actually back up any of your statements, like why hearing about the time the woman who runs the gun shop once enjoyed being in the shop, but then didn't enjoy the shop anymore not until the shop then had a different item, then the shop was actually much better for it.

i think most of us hear that and mash skip cause it's shit and wasting our time as players (players being a verb not a noun) but you are arguing that these sorts of interactions are incredible and how dare us morons ruin your incredible games! So please do enlighten us with why that is more enjoyable, there's plenty of people hear telling you why it isn't but you say you have a counter? and no just saying "it's subjective" isn't an answer

 

[64bitmodels]

Then play games that story is not the focus.

/thread

 

[StueyDuck]

/thread

not thread,

Uncharted "has a story as the focus" never had that issue playing that game.

Modern warfare is a "Story game" didn't struggle getting through that dialog

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

I love the main questline of FFXVI. The sidequests are mind-numbing and steal the joy I get from playing the game.

 

[StueyDuck]

I only have limited time at night after the toddler is asleep, and man, some nights with FFXVI, I don't even think I fought an enemy. It was talking to a few NPCs, maybe craft something or fetch something, then time was up.
It is getting ridiculous.

I know how you feel, not with the toddler though, but congrats!

but just having limited time available and feeling like you literally did nothing.

 

[sono]

Horizon zero dawn springs to mind. While the gameplay and progression and side quests are good the dialogue I just mash skip

 

[SJRB]

If any, Starfield comes to the point way too fast.

There's zero time for development, everybody immediately trusts you with their life and their entire personal life story and problems, making the entire experience shallow and artificial.

Within 20 minutes of meeting a new person they're gushing their deepest insecurities all over you. It's absurd.

 

[Cashon]

A. World-building doesn’t have to mean a character just stands there dumping info on you paragraph after paragraph. In fact that’s probably one of the worst ways to accomplish world-building and is a sign of crappy writing

B. A lot of that supposed “world-building” barely even qualifies as that. Much of the time it’s just an attempt to give you some flimsy but “better-than-nothing” in-world explanation for why it’s asking you to do some dumb videogame-y that nobody would ever agree to in real life.

E.g. FF XVI there’s one quest where a lady is like “help me, my kids’ clothing is falling apart because I don’t have any fabric to repair it. I ordered fabric from some random person at a shop stall half a continent away but it hasn’t been delivered yet, probably because we live in the middle of a poisonous lake in the middle of an abandoned wasteland. Can you go find out what happened to my fabric?”

Then you go and

Spoiler: Big megaton spoilers for FF XVI’s Oscar level world-building

find out the fabric shop had their supply shipment hijacked by some BANDITS, so you go kill the bandits and get the lady’s fabric.

Come on. That’s not world-building, most of the dialog is just there in service of the dumb fetch quest and adds nothing.

I mean... when you talk to your friends, do you simply stick to the absolute purpose of your talk, or do you go into detail?

"How are you?"
"I'm well. How are you?"
"I'm well as well."
"Okay, great."
"Great. Goodbye."

Why even have a conversation?

"How are you?"
"Pretty good. I had a bitch of a case today at work, because my boss wanted something accomplished in an unrealistic timeframe, but otherwise things are pretty good. Janette and I are planning a trip to Mars this weekend, so I'm pretty excited about that."
"Wait, what? Mars?! I didn't know we had people going to Mars now!"
"Yeah, man. Have you been living under a rock?"
"You know that I have been, ever since that rockslide buried my house. It was a very traumatizing exp..."

One of those conversations, though poorly written, is more interesting than the other. If I'm exploring a game's world, I want to see stuff like that, as opposed to...say... the first Borderlands, where it's just a brief spoken sentence and all of the detail is in a text box explaining your quest.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

All the suits infiltrated gaming and made it needlessly complex and dragged out for the sake of money. All these time-gates, multiple editions of games, and whatnot should go. Let me boot my games, and go straight to the action. LET ME HAVE FUN.

Every game isn’t an action game..

 

[IntentionalPun]

I skip through Bethesda RPG dialog about as fast as humanly possible and always have.

They are still my favorite games lol

 

[Sethbacca]

Don't play story heavy games if you don't want an emphasis on story? I mean, that seems the obvious solution here.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Yeah I agree to an extent. I’m all for having more game and less chatter.

But I’m not sure if WRPG/RPG games are good examples, that kind of stuff is a big part of those genres in general.

EXACTLY! People don’t have patience and want every game to be their way. People act like children.

 

[StueyDuck]

I mean... when you talk to your friends, do you simply stick to the absolute purpose of your talk, or do you go into detail?

"How are you?"
"I'm well. How are you?"
"I'm well as well."
"Okay, great."
"Great. Goodbye."

Why even have a conversation?

"How are you?"
"Pretty good. I had a bitch of a case today at work, because my boss wanted something accomplished in an unrealistic timeframe, but otherwise things are pretty good. Janette and I are planning a trip to Mars this weekend, so I'm pretty excited about that."
"Wait, what? Mars?! I didn't know we had people going to Mars now!"
"Yeah, man. Have you been living under a rock?"
"You know that I have been, ever since that rockslide buried my house. It was a very traumatizing exp..."

One of those conversations, though poorly written, is more interesting than the other. If I'm exploring a game's world, I want to see stuff like that, as opposed to...say... the first Borderlands, where it's just a brief spoken sentence and all of the detail is in a text box explaining your quest.

but these characters aren't your friends, i'd much rather have the borderlands approach (for side content) and let me get back to playing the game.

we don't have nearly enough agency as players to have that sort of interaction with an NPC, RDR2 being the only game that's kind of given the illusion of player agency in interacting with an NPC.

so until then i have to rely on what Developers are actually writing to make that dialog seem lifelike and interesting and right now they aren't doing a very good job at that.

very few times will i see a response choice in the way i would actually respond to a human being telling me that their went to mars or whatever.

 

[StueyDuck]

Don't play story heavy games if you don't want an emphasis on story? I mean, that seems the obvious solution here.

Uncharted is a story heavy game?

Life is strange is a story heavy game?

so no that's not a solution.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yeah, ive noticed that too. There is a lot of that in horizon forbidden west. im like i dont give a shit about yur sob story, im only here for the xp.

especially when its a side mission for a character you know you wont see again.

starfield at least has some funny responses for me to reply with, but even then im like lets just get this done with and dont pick those punchy lines most of the time.

 

[zeldaring]

Honestly a good story can take it to the next level for me, but the only video game stories i ever liked were i think MGS series, last of us the first only and sekiro but it does really take to the next level when a story is good and you care about the world.

 

[Cashon]

but these characters aren't your friends, i'd much rather have the borderlands approach (for side content) and let me get back to playing the game.

we don't have nearly enough agency as players to have that sort of interaction with an NPC, RDR2 being the only game that's kind of given the illusion of player agency in interacting with an NPC.

so until then i have to rely on what Developers are actually writing to make that dialog seem lifelike and interesting and right now they aren't doing a very good job at that.

very few times will i see a response choice in the way i would actually respond to a human being telling me that their went to mars or whatever.

And that's fine. It just means that this isn't a great game for your particular tastes. It strikes me as similar to complaining that Mario doesn't have enough narrative or that The Sims doesn't have enough combat.

If the complaint is that the writing isn't strong enough, I think that's a valid complaint, but it's one that plagues the entire industry, in my opinion. The number of games with truly great writing are very, very few. But if it's just that you don't want to read/listen to tangential details from characters... it's just not a good game for you.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

You’re playing RPGs and are upset about dialogue? Maybe try MLB The Show or Call of Duty 2k23.

 

[R6Rider]

I'll never, ever finish Persona 5 because of this

One of the main reasons I never finished that game.

What a slog.

 

[StueyDuck]

You’re playing RPGs and are upset about dialogue? Maybe try MLB The Show or Call of Duty 2k23.

no please read the thread...

getting a little fed up with the low effort drive-by non posts

 

[StueyDuck]

And that's fine. It just means that this isn't a great game for your particular tastes. It strikes me as similar to complaining that Mario doesn't have enough narrative or that The Sims doesn't have enough combat.

If the complaint is that the writing isn't strong enough, I think that's a valid complaint, but it's one that plagues the entire industry, in my opinion. The number of games with truly great writing are very, very few. But if it's just that you don't want to read/listen to tangential details from characters... it's just not a good game for you.

well you are right that it plagues the industry, but i disagree that i dislike RPGs because the current level of fluff writing isn't very good, i've said many times in this thread that game such as ME and The Witcher 3 actually did these things pretty well.

I barely mashed the skip button in ME if ever, even during my legendary collection playthrough when that released, i can replay those games and not want to skip a single line but mash the skip button in sooo many modern RPGs dialogs. So I don't agree that its not a good game for me but rather that the writing itself and the pacing aren't good enough and waste the players time

Fuck... Fable is an amazing example of doing it well, although i get you need to understand the British Cheekiness but Fable just draws you in and you don't feel like you have achieved nothing in an hour long play session

 

[lughnasadh123]

you aren't disagreeing you are acting like chode.

disagreeing is saying "i disagree"

And god forbid you actually back up any of your statements, like why hearing about the time the woman who runs the gun shop once enjoyed being in the shop, but then didn't enjoy the shop anymore not until the shop then had a different item, then the shop was actually much better for it.

i think most of us hear that and mash skip cause it's shit and wasting our time as players (players being a verb not a noun) but you are arguing that these sorts of interactions are incredible and how dare us morons ruin your incredible games! So please do enlighten us with why that is more enjoyable, there's plenty of people hear telling you why it isn't but you say you have a counter? and no just saying "it's subjective" isn't an answer

As explained already, it's worldbuilding. Details however small that further help flesh out the world and all the people inhabiting it. It's an extra layer of immersion for those who enjoy it particularly roleplayers. Same goes with flavor text on items or audio logs/notes scattered in a world that goes a step further explaining things that went on. If you're in a rush to get to...whatever the hell it is you're trying to get to - do it. But cutting that other stuff out that you don't like hurts those that do.

 

[StueyDuck]

As explained already, it's worldbuilding. Details however small that further help flesh out the world and all the people inhabiting it. It's an extra layer of immersion for those who enjoy it particularly roleplayers. Same goes with flavor text on items or audio logs/notes scattered in a world that goes a step further explaining things that went on. If you're in a rush to get to...whatever the hell it is you're trying to get to - do it. But cutting that other stuff out that you don't like hurts those that do.

but that has nothing to do about the thread, that is just world building, the thread isn't about world building.

it's about poorly written/acted/paced dialog that forces you to sit through 11 pages to get a two sentence outcome, it's literally in the Title, it's about getting to the point, what does that have to do with roleplaying. I don't think you actually know why you are angry, you are just angry because video games and someone criticises them?

 

[Raonak]

They're RPGs. Dialog is like half the genre

 

[KXVXII9X]

It honestly depends on the quality of the dialogue and how it is implemented. I think JRPG's are notorious for having characters drone on forever. Some I still can be engaged with like Persona 5, but I would need to plan a lot of time just to fully engage with the game. I think other games like Baldur's Gate 3's dialogue never gets boring to me as each piece of dialogue is really important and all NPCs are voice acted and have unique animations which are engaging.

I also don't think this is a modern phenomenon. I think there are some gamers who aren't interested in story heavy games are making a lot of these gripes. Large amounts of dialogue have been a staple in JRPGs/RPGs, adventure games, and Point and Click games for decades.

 

[Cashon]

well you are right that it plagues the industry, but i disagree that i dislike RPGs because the current level of fluff writing isn't very good, i've said many times in this thread that game such as ME and The Witcher 3 actually did these things pretty well.

I barely mashed the skip button in ME if ever, even during my legendary collection playthrough when that released, i can replay those games and not want to skip a single line but mash the skip button in sooo many modern RPGs dialogs. So I don't agree that its not a good game for me but rather that the writing itself and the pacing aren't good enough and waste the players time

Fuck... Fable is an amazing example of doing it well, although i get you need to understand the British Cheekiness but Fable just draws you in and you don't feel like you have achieved nothing in an hour long play session

I love the world of Mass Effect, but it's certainly not because of the dialogue specifically, which is often just as it is in any of these other RPGs mentioned. Especially when you talk to them between missions on the Normandy. It's usually just a bunch of expository backstory stuff (basically every companion in Mass Effect 1). I feel in love with the universe of Mass Effect mostly because of the codex., But also because the companions and NPCs would flesh it out further via dialogue, but I can't say that the dialogue was anything particularly well-written. In fact, playing through the Legendary Edition, my overall opinion of the game series was lowered a bit because the flaws of the writing became more apparent with time.

3 had a lot of side-quests that amounted to something like,
"Hey, can you find my comic?"
"Why?"
"Because I want it."

Obviously it's subjective, but I'd rather get a lot more detail from NPCs (which is relatively optional; it's usually obvious which dialogue to pick to get to the point of the conversation vs which you pick to get detail) than something like that.

 

[StueyDuck]

It honestly depends on the quality of the dialogue and how it is implemented. I think JRPG's are notorious for having characters drone on forever. Some I still can be engaged with like Persona 5, but I would need to plan a lot of time just to fully engage with the game. I think other games like Baldur's Gate 3's dialogue never gets boring to me as each piece of dialogue is really important and all NPCs are voice acted and have unique animations which are engaging.

I also don't think this is a modern phenomenon. I think there are some gamers who aren't interested in story heavy games are making a lot of these gripes. Large amounts of dialogue have been a staple in JRPGs/RPGs, adventure games, and Point and Click games for decades.

JRPGs use to be the backbone of my gaming, I do agree it depends on the quality of the writing/acting/pacing.

but it's certainly more of an issue today with games being so much bigger, just because now we can have 100 000s of unique npcs doesn't mean one character have 20 pages of text for a single quest now about bringing a package from a guy called steve, I think that is the issue with modern gaming is that their doesn't seem to really be editors or script doctors, i am sure there actually is to a degree but it doesn't feel like it which is a problem.

 

[theclaw135]

I couldn't possibly generalize. It's different for every kind of title.
I've played through at least five Trails games and like *every* Ace Attorney (including Layton and Edgeworth), yet I dread how long just the prologues to games like Rune Factory 4 feel.

 

[StueyDuck]

I love the world of Mass Effect, but it's certainly not because of the dialogue specifically, which is often just as it is in any of these other RPGs mentioned. Especially when you talk to them between missions on the Normandy. It's usually just a bunch of expository backstory stuff (basically every companion in Mass Effect 1). I feel in love with the universe of Mass Effect mostly because of the codex., But also because the companions and NPCs would flesh it out further via dialogue, but I can't say that the dialogue was anything particularly well-written. In fact, playing through the Legendary Edition, my overall opinion of the game series was lowered a bit because the flaws of the writing became more apparent with time.

3 had a lot of side-quests that amounted to something like,
"Hey, can you find my comic?"
"Why?"
"Because I want it."

Obviously it's subjective, but I'd rather get a lot more detail from NPCs (which is relatively optional; it's usually obvious which dialogue to pick to get to the point of the conversation vs which you pick to get detail) than something like that.

look of the trilogy obvs ME3 is the black sheep but even then i ended up just skipping many of those quests, the difference however was that there wasn't many of those quests, in modern gaming we seem to be getting 1000s of those quests on a huge massive scale and with every character just droning on and on about a comic (which made me laugh because i literally just got that starfield quest the other night too). Even FFXVI has way to many of these quests and while finding out what breed torgal was had an interesting payoff, helping the guy find his lost item for the 30th time was really grinding, just mash that x button and get it over with.

the difference between ME , Fable, the witcher 3, Skyrim even kingdoms of amalur which i revisited not too long ago was that you would never feel like you achieved nothing but people droning on after an hour or more of gameplay. where when i was playing hogwarts or starfield or FFXVI, if im not on the main questline it just felt like i was going to put down the controller and listen to some NPC who i've seen for the first time go on an on about why they don't like the color blue

 

[Virex]

Currently my time is being shared between two AAA campaigns, ffxvi and starfield, this time being limited, I can only squeeze an hour or two luckily a night

If I'm lucky

Modern game design/pacing/story-telling has characters nattering on for minutes and minutes on end. it's always just pointless meaningless shit with side characters we are meant to Care about apparently.

Am I only one finding this pointless droning on by characters about menial shit ruining most modern games, the writing seems to be extremely superfluous and doesn't respect the players time whatsoever.

I am finding myself mashing the skip button as fast as I can in these games after a few hours.

EDIT: thanks to mods for getting this on the right side

Can you just get to the damn point

 

[Knightime_X]

I learned to skim read.
If it looks like pointless banter and delivers no useful lore\story\or important progression, I skip.
Especially if I'm not interested in whatever conversation is to be had.

Basically read the first few words and kinda "buffer read" as you go without needing to comprehend.
Skip a few words, wash, rinse, repeat.
Comprehend only when necessary.

You read\reread all of that because it contained somewhat important information.

 

[StueyDuck]

Can you just get to the damn point

 

[Little Chicken]

I dropped FFXVI the minute I realised it was going to disappoint me and have no regrets.

 

[lughnasadh123]

but that has nothing to do about the thread, that is just world building, the thread isn't about world building.

it's about poorly written/acted/paced dialog that forces you to sit through 11 pages to get a two sentence outcome, it's literally in the Title, it's about getting to the point, what does that have to do with roleplaying. I don't think you actually know why you are angry, you are just angry because video games and someone criticises them.

I just told you: storytelling is world building. Even for the writing YOU don't like. Even for the writing YOU think goes on too long. Which all goes right back to my first post to you.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

This thread in a nutshell:

“I hate it when you go to a steakhouse and order a steak, and it comes out all overcooked and tough.”

“Hurrrr hey bro maybe you should go to McDonalds instead”

 

[Trilobit]

I bet OP is the kind of person who gets stuck in dialogue with the owl from Ocarina of Time and ends up crying in a corner.

 

[Agent_Nobody]

Currently my time is being shared between two AAA campaigns, ffxvi and starfield, this time being limited, I can only squeeze an hour or two luckily a night

If I'm lucky

Modern game design/pacing/story-telling has characters nattering on for minutes and minutes on end. it's always just pointless meaningless shit with side characters we are meant to Care about apparently.

Am I only one finding this pointless droning on by characters about menial shit ruining most modern games, the writing seems to be extremely superfluous and doesn't respect the players time whatsoever.

I am finding myself mashing the skip button as fast as I can in these games after a few hours.

EDIT: thanks to mods for getting this on the right side

Being longwinded isn’t a crime, Disco Elysium was up to the level of it rivalling classic literary works.

At the same point, there is a problem with over-explaining with some other game scripts; Where you get the same small fact repeated to you again and again by different characters and it‘s something obvious where It’s like: ‘yeah I know’ from the last half dozen times I’ve been told’. And just telling a boring story; Mass Effect Andromeda was full of it; everybody’s homesick so everyone's story is the exact same of being homesick and wanting some semblance of home.

 

[semiconscious]

I agree it was especially bad in FFXVI but come on… it was always like this. People just don‘t have the attention span any more.

yeah, i agree. i think what's changed is my own personal tolerance for it. truth to tell, it really doesn't seem to be all that bad in starfield (tho there's loads of back'n'forth running around at times). i'm just not all that invested in it for some reason...

 

[theclaw135]

I dropped FFXVI the minute I realised it was going to disappoint me and have no regrets.

Definite mixed feelings there. The combat is roughly similar to Ys 8 or 9 (which I overall enjoyed),

Though the jerky pace of the writing, egads. It jumps from flashy kaiju battles to long stretches of very little happening.

 

[KXVXII9X]

JRPGs use to be the backbone of my gaming, I do agree it depends on the quality of the writing/acting/pacing.

but it's certainly more of an issue today with games being so much bigger, just because now we can have 100 000s of unique npcs doesn't mean one character have 20 pages of text for a single quest now about bringing a package from a guy called steve, I think that is the issue with modern gaming is that their doesn't seem to really be editors or script doctors, i am sure there actually is to a degree but it doesn't feel like it which is a problem.

I think you are right in about the games being bigger and that can affect things like pacing and trying to fit quality writing in these huge games. There definitely needs to be better quality assurance for the writing and more focus overall. Cut the bloat.

 

[_Ex_]

doesn't respect the players time whatsoever

Modern gaming in general. Quantity supersedes quality to the point of detriment. Bigger is not better, it just makes development take longer, ergo raising the game's price for the consumer. A consumer that largely doesn't want that long of a game as evidenced by completion ratio stats. I'd rather see shorter, filler-free games, that last 12 hours max, and cost $30-40. That time can fit all genres other than RPGs, and with RPGs keep the bastards under 40 hours tops.

 

[Sethbacca]

Uncharted is a story heavy game?

The action in every Uncharted game is meant to be in furtherance of the story, so .... I mean you're supposed to be playing it for the story yeah.... Whether you're happy with the quality/length of the storytelling and dialogue is another discussion entirely though.

 

[theclaw135]

Modern gaming in general. Quantity supersedes quality to the point of detriment. Bigger is not better, it just makes development take longer, ergo raising the game's price for the consumer. A consumer that largely doesn't want that long of a game as evidenced by completion ratio stats. I'd rather see shorter, filler-free games, that last 12 hours max, and cost $30-40. That time can fit all genres other than RPGs, and with RPGs keep the bastards under 40 hours tops.

Collect a thon is the most detrimental invention in gaming. Repeating the same areas to find obnoxiously hidden bananas, barrels (stars, crystals, giant rings, Feebas, arrrgggh!)

 

[Phase]

If any, Starfield comes to the point way too fast.

There's zero time for development, everybody immediately trusts you with their life and their entire personal life story and problems, making the entire experience shallow and artificial.

Within 20 minutes of meeting a new person they're gushing their deepest insecurities all over you. It's absurd.

And then you can't kill them!