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[TheQueen'sOwn]

No! He's just a Conservative so instead of spending money on education or tax cuts for the poor he's going to build extra prisons.

There is ZERO reason to vote Conservative in Canada unless you're a bible thumper. The Federal Liberals are super centrist, almost centre right when it comes to fiscal policy, and centre left for social policy. They're literally the perfect party, almost Libertarian but without the crazy. The Conservatives are not any more fiscally conservative, they just allocate the money to stupider things like building excess prison capacity, and they're socially conservative so they hate gays and pander to churches and the uneducated paranoid hillbillies who think the census will somehow result in them going to a government internment camp.

I like you.

 

[BladeWorker]

That's the thing, I think most people understand that canceling the mandatory long form census is the most retarded move ever. At least I'd like to believe that Canadians are smart enough to see why you can't get statistically significant results with a fucking optional census. :lol

As someone who works with statistics for a living and who uses Census data on a regular basis, I second your hope but also know that non-math-oriented Canadians don't by and large understand the Census issue beyond "they're destroying quality data" OR "they're protecting my privacy". Which I find neither here nor there, except that it doesn't make the Conservatives any more likely to actually base their policy decision on fact.

I'd like to believe that most Red Tories went Liberal, especially since there's a lot of strife within the Liberal party regarding any kind of potential merger with the NDP.

Oh, that it were true. Red tories are usually "red" because they believe in more Liberal social policies.

But the economic values that red tories hold tend to be stronger than the social values that they believe in, so in a pinch, they swing Conservative, assuming Harper doesn't do anything that is completely abhorrent and incongruous to their social values.

A combination of good economic times, social policy turmoil, and a strong Liberal brand would increase the odds of moving red tories back to the red tent. Otherwise, they'll generally vote blue.

Harper's fearmongering about coalitions is more about scaring undecided voters - that is, those who are truly undecided and don't really have a fully-thought out orientation - into either voting for him or not showing up at all. When undecided voters do vote, they vote based on what they see day-to-day; in a summer election, that's often energy (sometimes infrastructure) and the environment. In a winter election, it's the economy and health care (all other things being equal, including economic stability). This has historically resulted in greater outcomes for the Liberals among previously undecided voters, though in the last four years that's shifted to the Conservative tent.

In an economic downturn, the game changes - hence the desperation moves to blame the Liberals for everything.

It's the meme of the political world now: Iggy did it.

 

[grumble]

I'm so conflicted. I hate the Liberal party because they're a bunch of bloated-government, dishonest scumbags who will support any position that is most popular that week, but I hate the conservative party because they're a bunch of thieving, dishonest scumbags who I'm not convinced have the country's best interests at heart. I hate the NDP because they're a bunch of left-wing fetishist scumbags, but most of all I hate the Bloc because they are insanely corrupt scumbags who are running federally to push an agenda of divisiveness and favouritism.

That's the issue with democracy; what do you do when everybody running sucks? No matter who we elect, they're going to waste our money and lie to us.

 

[Zzoram]

The Conservatives treat prisons as the first line of defense against crime, when really it should be the last resort. The idea is that you stop the crimes from happening in the first place.

Only a Conservative could think that the way to reduce already low Canadian crime rates is to be more like America, with the highest crime rate of the industrialized world.

 

[zedge]

The Conservatives are not any more fiscally conservative, they just allocate the money to stupider things like building excess prison capacity, and they're socially conservative so they hate gays and pander to churches.

Well I wouldnt go that far. I voted PC based on the candidates in my area. I dont hate gays or go to church. The problem is the Conservatives are becoming less and less Conservative. I don't know if that blame falls square on Harper's shoulders but something is wrong thats for sure.

 

[BladeWorker]

Well I wouldnt go that far. I voted PC based on the candidates in my area. I dont hate gays or go to church. The problem is the Conservatives are becoming less and less Conservative. I don't know if that blame falls square on Harper's shoulders but something is wrong thats for sure.

And this is what I don't get. The brand of Conservatism that the current batch of Conservatives are running under doesn't even reflect the old PC or Reform ways. It's more like the Canadian Alliance - which was, by most accounts, a massive electoral failure. So I'm wondering just how it is that the brand has managed to survive.

I suppose if the Liberal brand fails harder, the Conservative brand looks shiny and blue by comparison...?

 

[zedge]

Oh, that it were true. Red tories are usually "red" because they believe in more Liberal social policies.

But the economic values that red tories hold tend to be stronger than the social values that they believe in, so in a pinch, they swing Conservative, assuming Harper doesn't do anything that is completely abhorrent and incongruous to their social values.

Hit the nail on the head here. I cringe every time someone says anyone who votes conservative is a redneck or hillbilly.. c'mon now.

I suppose if the Liberal brand fails harder, the Conservative brand looks shiny and blue by comparison...?

I think thats the current situation unfortunately.

 

[Simon Belmont]

Only a Conservative could think that the way to reduce already low Canadian crime rates is to be more like America, with the highest crime rate of the industrialized world.

It's also so much cheaper to put people through school and give them opportunities than it is to deal with them when they hit the criminal justice/welfare systems. It costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $8000 per year per student in Canada. By contrast, the average prisoner can cost the system anywhere between $80,000 to $120,000 per year, and I don't know for sure that those figures even include the costs of running a trial to get them in jail in the first place.

 

[Zzoram]

Well I wouldnt go that far. I voted PC based on the candidates in my area. I dont hate gays or go to church. The problem is the Conservatives are becoming less and less Conservative. I don't know if that blame falls square on Harper's shoulders but something is wrong thats for sure.

I voted for the Federal Conservatives the year Harper won because I was hoping he'd scrap the expensive and useless gun registry like he promised. He didn't do that but he did a bunch of awful senseless shit like raise the lowest income tax bracket 0.5% (only Conservatives think taxing the poor more and cutting the GST that primarily impacts the rich is a good tax policy), killing the long form census and wasting $1Billion on the G20. Boy do I regret it voting for the Federal Conservatives now.

I couldn't vote for the Ontario Progressive Conservatives because John Tory wanted to slush money from public schools to private religious schools and I won't support government funded bible thumping pretending to be Biology class.

 

[firehawk12]

As someone who works with statistics for a living and who uses Census data on a regular basis, I second your hope but also know that non-math-oriented Canadians don't by and large understand the Census issue beyond "they're destroying quality data" OR "they're protecting my privacy". Which I find neither here nor there, except that it doesn't make the Conservatives any more likely to actually base their policy decision on fact.

Yeah. I remember some poll numbers after the announcement of the new census measures and I seem to remember the numbers shifting slightly. Then again, it's a fairly obtuse issue that's hard to explain to people who don't care about statistics or... well, the future of the country. :lol

Oh, that it were true. Red tories are usually "red" because they believe in more Liberal social policies.

I admit, I base my wishful thinking on Scott Brison and Belinda Stronach. I just assume other rich Tories generally feel the same way, but who knows.

Harper's fearmongering about coalitions is more about scaring undecided voters - that is, those who are truly undecided and don't really have a fully-thought out orientation - into either voting for him or not showing up at all. When undecided voters do vote, they vote based on what they see day-to-day; in a summer election, that's often energy (sometimes infrastructure) and the environment. In a winter election, it's the economy and health care (all other things being equal, including economic stability). This has historically resulted in greater outcomes for the Liberals among previously undecided voters, though in the last four years that's shifted to the Conservative tent.

I honestly hope that the Australian and British elections have basically shattered that fucking myth. The only thing now is whether or not Quebec bashing gets him anywhere. Quite frankly though, other than that pesky "French language" thing (big deal, I know ), I really wouldn't mind if the Bloc ran this country.

It's the meme of the political world now: Iggy did it.

Yes he did. :lol

 

[Zzoram]

The Bloc doesn't have a platform other than Quebec pride. They just use their seats to ensure Quebec gets a bunch of money from Alberta/Ontario to fund their $2/day daycare and money to celebrate "Quebec Day" on Canada Day.

 

[Zzoram]

Canadian politics enrages me because I know Canadians are sensible people. I just don't know why they stopped paying attention the day Harper got elected into office. The Liberal sponsorship scandal was peanuts compared to the Harper G20, and spread out over a much longer highly prosperous time for our country, not all at once in the middle of a shithole recession.

Harper being in office this long is punishment enough for the Liberals. They need to get back in power and get the census back. I really want the GST to go back up to 5% and be offset by a 1% income tax cut on the lowest bracket (to undo the Harper tax increase and then some) because the recent news about all those rich Canadians hiding money in Swiss banks to avoid income tax only goes to show that the GST is the only way to ensure rich people pay any tax.

 

[lunarworks]

The Conservatives treat prisons as the first line of defense against crime, when really it should be the last resort.

They're just preparing for when (they hope) they get a majority. I'm certain they'll try to push-through all kinds of laws, like a minimum 5 year sentence for possession of marijuana, and jailing anyone who's gay-married.

 

[firehawk12]

The Bloc doesn't have a platform other than Quebec pride. They just use their seats to ensure Quebec gets a bunch of money from Alberta/Ontario to fund their $2/day daycare and money to celebrate "Quebec Day" on Canada Day.

I'd argue that the Conservatives don't have much of a platform other than "Alberta pride" but we put them in charge!

The Bloc are like the far left socialist party of the country, so I'd be perfectly happy with them doing whatever they want. But I'm a dirty hippy like that. :lol

 

[zedge]

I voted for the Federal Conservatives the year Harper won because I was hoping he'd scrap the expensive and useless gun registry like he promised. He didn't do that but he did a bunch of awful senseless shit like raise the lowest income tax bracket 0.5% (only Conservatives think taxing the poor more and cutting the GST that primarily impacts the rich is a good tax policy), killing the long form census and wasting $1Billion on the G20. Boy do I regret it voting for the Federal Conservatives now.

I couldn't vote for the Ontario Progressive Conservatives because John Tory wanted to slush money from public schools to private religious schools and I won't support government funded bible thumping pretending to be Biology class.

Can't blame you there.

 

[lunarworks]

The Bloc are like the far left socialist party of the country, so I'd be perfectly happy with them doing whatever they want. But I'm a dirty hippy like that. :lol

I have to agree with my dad when he says that Duceppe is actually a very intelligent guy.

It's just a shame that his loyalties don't lie with Canada as a whole.

 

[grumble]

The Census thing made me absolutely furious. I hope that the second another party goes into power the long-form Census comes back.

 

[RevoDS]

I voted for the Federal Conservatives the year Harper won because I was hoping he'd scrap the expensive and useless gun registry like he promised. He didn't do that but he did a bunch of awful senseless shit like raise the lowest income tax bracket 0.5% (only Conservatives think taxing the poor more and cutting the GST that primarily impacts the rich is a good tax policy), killing the long form census and wasting $1Billion on the G20. Boy do I regret it voting for the Federal Conservatives now.

In what world is an annual cost of less than $4 million "expensive" and not worth the help in finding crime perpetrators? Those 4 millions are a fraction of the federal government's budget. The gun registry vote wasn't due to fiscal and economic factors, it was purely motivated by ideology.

Want to remove something useless and ridiculously expensive? Set your eyes no further than the Governor General. That'll be more effective.

Agreed on the rest of the post though.

The Bloc doesn't have a platform other than Quebec pride. They just use their seats to ensure Quebec gets a bunch of money from Alberta/Ontario to fund their $2/day daycare and money to celebrate "Quebec Day" on Canada Day.

For the record, our daycare is actually $7/day, and Quebec's National holiday is actually a week before Canada Day on June 24th, both holidays being commemorated.

 

[zedge]

I have to agree with my dad when he says that Duceppe is actually a very intelligent guy.

It's just a shame that his loyalties don't lie with Canada as a whole.

I enjoyed listening to him during the leader debates. Very articulate. As you said though, where are his loyalties in the end?

 

[gutter_trash]

I don't understand the Gun Registry hate.. so what if it's expensive.. the Afghanistan mission is expensive and the post of GG is expensive too

 

[Zzoram]

In what world is an annual cost of less than $4 million "expensive" and not worth the help in finding crime perpetrators? Those 4 millions are a fraction of the federal government's budget. The gun registry vote wasn't due to fiscal and economic factors, it was purely motivated by ideology.

Want to remove something useless and ridiculously expensive? Set your eyes no further than the Governor General. That'll be more effective.

Agreed on the rest of the post though.

The gun registry was overbudget to the tune of $800Million at the time of the election IIRC. That's why I wasn't a fan of it. Besides, it was a super annoying process that only hassled farmers with multiple hunting rifles. It should only cover hand guns, since those are the dangerous concealed weapons. You can't exactly carry a hunting rifle around in public without people noticing and running the fuck away.

In hind sight, I think it's fine to keep the gun registry since the $800Million was upfront sunk cost and maintenance is only ~$4Million now.

 

[gutter_trash]

The gun registry was overbudget to the tune of $1Billion at the time of the election IIRC. That's why I wasn't a fan of it. Besides, it was a super annoying process that only hassled farmers with multiple hunting rifles. It should only cover hand guns, since those are the dangerous concealed weapons. You can't exactly carry a hunting rifle around in public without people noticing and running the fuck away.

i think reducing crime in Urban centers and tracking weapons has more importance than the qualms of a farmer and his rifle.

If you need a license and registration for a vehicle, then you should too for a gun

 

[grumble]

I don't understand the Gun Registry hate.. so what if it's expensive.. the Afghanistan mission is expensive and the post of GG is expensive too

What pissed me off more than anything was the bank bailout in Canada. Our banks were fine! They didn't need money! Why the fuck did we give them 75 billion dollars?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12007

I mean fuck, all they did with the money was buy other countries' banks!

That was blatant theft from the Canadian people, and we should be fucking furious.

 

[Zzoram]

i think reducing crime in Urban centers and tracking weapons has more importance than the qualms of a farmer and his rifle.

If you need a license and registration for a vehicle, then you should too for a gun

Except urban crime isn't committed with hunting rifles. It's all hand guns, that's the only type of gun that should be covered by the registry.

 

[Simon Belmont]

Want to remove something useless and ridiculously expensive? Set your eyes no further than the Governor General. That'll be more effective.

Think of the GG as the top diplomatic position in the country, think of him as the Vice President. If he wasn't doing the job, somebody else would have to.

Also, the GG has a constitutional function, and in a small way serves as a check on the Governments power. It wouldn't be so easy as eliminating a line item on a budget to get rid of the position.

I don't disagree that there aren't always better ways the Government could be spending out money. Like not overpaying for fighter jets, for a completely random example.

 

[Zzoram]

What pissed me off more than anything was the bank bailout in Canada. Our banks were fine! They didn't need money! Why the fuck did we give them 75 billion dollars?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12007

Harper wanted to look like he was "doing something" and forced the banks to take the "bailout" money that they didn't need or want. Yes, all they did was buy failing US banks with the money to grow outside of Canada. I guess you can say that works out in Canada's favour since our banks become bigger international players and bring the profits home, but it was still unnecessary.

Harper drives me crazy. Somebody needs to kick Iggy's ass and get the Liberals back into shape so they can fix the mess Harper's created.

 

[Simon Belmont]

Except urban crime isn't committed with hunting rifles. It's all hand guns, that's the only type of gun that should be covered by the registry.

Lots of people get killed with long guns. Including some RCMP officers lately.

 

[gutter_trash]

Except urban crime isn't committed with hunting rifles. It's all hand guns, that's the only type of gun that should be covered by the registry.

big trucks require more stringent requirements to get a license for that class than a passenger car.

then why should a larger rifle be void of registration while a smaller hand gun should?

logic wat?

 

[Zzoram]

Lots of people get killed with long guns. Including some RCMP officers lately.

Fine, then register them. I don't even care about the gun registry anymore, the costs are sunk. Maintenance is cheap now, so register away. This isn't about the gun registry, I brought it up as a thing I thought was wasteful years ago but that time's long gone and maintaining it is cheap so I'm fine with it now. Stop talking about the registry, it's good, no arguement here.

Harper is a fuck up in every major thing he did, why won't people get mad?

 

[firehawk12]

Except urban crime isn't committed with hunting rifles. It's all hand guns, that's the only type of gun that should be covered by the registry.

Of course, the RCMP will remind you that four of its officers were killed by rifles in that incident a few years ago. Didn't the last university shooting in Montreal involve rifles as well?

Remember that the head of the RCMP was recently "transferred" out for defending the registry and that the police chiefs association also supports the registry. Harper is going against the very "law and order" people who claims to respect.

 

[bonesmccoy]

I'm curious to see how Harper rebounds (or doesn't) from this, the long gun registry and the census debacle. The Nordiques thing was silly, but it's not a serious faux pay; no one in the next election will be swayed by a Liberal/NDP attack ad that features a 'He's so irresponsible, he wanted to bring more professional sports to Quebec!' voice-over.

Certainly Ignatieff now has more than enough ammo to motivate the Liberal and Liberalish base to defeat Harper in the next election and at least take a minority. But here's the problem I foresee: As of right now, Canadians are not *that* worried about having the Harper PMO and Cabinet chart the country through the global recession/depression. No matter how utterly stupid and embarrassing his latest moves have been, his party is doing no worse than it normally does.

As for the UN seat, I'd much rather Canada not make such a fuss to join up with the likes of Brazil, Gabon, Nigeria, Lebanon and Bosnia. Kind of an ironic Security Council.

Zzoram, to call the CPC a group that panders to gay-haters and churches and hill billies is shockingly off mark (and bizarre when you consider how heavily the leftist NDP draws from faith groups, rural voters and blue-collar union members). Harper is pro-SSM, pro-abortion, pro-ESCR, pro-status quo on virtually every social issue in Canada at the moment. He's 'conservative' on foreign policy, small governmenteerism, the environment and crime. This is why he's been able to make in-roads into traditionally hard-core urban ridings that have deep historical roots with the Liberal Party and NDP.

grumble, I'm voting Green in the next election. I'd rather have Lizzie May have my $2 than any of the other federal parties. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[gutter_trash]

Of course, the RCMP will remind you that four of its officers were killed by rifles in that incident a few years ago. Didn't the last university shooting in Montreal involve rifles as well?

Remember that the head of the RCMP was recently "transferred" out for defending the registry and that the police chiefs association also supports the registry. Harper is going against the very "law and order" people who claims to respect.

the Dawson College shooter obtained his weapons legally too

 

[bonesmccoy]

I suppose if the Liberal brand fails harder, the Conservative brand looks shiny and blue by comparison...?

It's as if the whole 'Natural Ruling Party' thing is now biting them in the ass, with the Grits being seen as something of an incumbent, even though they've been out of office for 5 years.

 

[Ether_Snake]

In what world is an annual cost of less than $4 million "expensive" and not worth the help in finding crime perpetrators? Those 4 millions are a fraction of the federal government's budget. The gun registry vote wasn't due to fiscal and economic factors, it was purely motivated by ideology.

Want to remove something useless and ridiculously expensive? Set your eyes no further than the Governor General. That'll be more effective.

Agreed on the rest of the post though.



For the record, our daycare is actually $7/day, and Quebec's National holiday is actually a week before Canada Day on June 24th, both holidays being commemorated.

How much did Harper spend in a weekend that could have covered the gun registry for how many years?

 

[Zzoram]

I'm curious to see how Harper rebounds (or doesn't) from this, the long gun registry and the census debacle. The Nordiques thing was silly, but it's not a serious faux pay; no one in the next election will be swayed by a Liberal/NDP attack ad that features a 'He's so irresponsible, he wanted to bring more professional sports to Quebec!' voice-over.

Certainly Ignatieff now has more than enough ammo to motivate the Liberal and Liberalish base to defeat Harper in the next election and at least take a minority. But here's the problem I foresee: As of right now, Canadians are not *that* worried about having the Harper PMO and Cabinet chart the country through the global recession/depression. No matter how utterly stupid and embarrassing his latest moves have been, his party is doing no worse than it normally does.

As for the UN seat, I'd much rather Canada not make such a fuss to join up with the likes of Brazil, Gabon, Nigeria, Lebanon and Bosnia. Kind of an ironic Security Council.

Zzoram, to call the CPC a group that panders to gay-haters and churches and hill billies is shockingly off mark (and bizarre when you consider how heavily the leftist NDP draws from faith groups, rural voters and blue-collar union members). Harper is pro-SSM, pro-abortion, pro-ESCR, pro-status quo on virtually every social issue in Canada at the moment. He's 'conservative' on foreign policy, small governmenteerism, the environment and crime. This is why he's been able to make in-roads into traditionally hard-core urban ridings that have deep historical roots with the Liberal Party and NDP.

grumble, I'm voting Green in the next election. I'd rather have Lizzie May have my $2 than any of the other federal parties. What could possibly go wrong?

The Conservatives don't like gay marriage/abortion/etc but they can't do anything about it because Canada is strongly for those things and the Charter of Rights would thwart any attempt to ban them, no matter how badly some Conservatives want to ban them. That's not the same as being pro, they're just powerless to do anything anti. I guess that means in reality none of those positions matter since nobody can do anything about them.

As for the NDP, you're right, they are horrible and I hate them too because they're crazy spenders with no fiscal responsibility. They also seem to think a minimum wage of $20 would mean no more poor people.

The Conservatives and Liberals, in reality, are both pretty fiscally conservative. The difference is that Conservatives swing extra money towards stupid stuff like building excess prison capacity while Liberals tend to spend that money on social services. That and the Liberals tax more fairly, they wouldn't shift the tax burder onto the poor to help the rich like Harper did.

 

[Zzoram]

How much did Harper spend in a weekend that could have covered the gun registry for how many years?

Stop talking about the gun registry. It's a really minor issue and I'm fine with it now that the initial capitol investment is done and over with. It's cheap and relatively harmless now so it should stay because it makes most people happy and is only a minor hassle to a minority.

 

[RevoDS]

Think of the GG as the top diplomatic position in the country, think of him as the Vice President. If he wasn't doing the job, somebody else would have to.

Also, the GG has a constitutional function, and in a small way serves as a check on the Governments power. It wouldn't be so easy as eliminating a line item on a budget to get rid of the position.

I don't disagree that there aren't always better ways the Government could be spending out money. Like not overpaying for fighter jets, for a completely random example.

I know all of that. But the fact of the matter is that the GG is nothing more than a ceremonial, official role in the political system with no real power or influence. Whatever little actual power is left is really guided by precedence and using the Prime Minister's advice, which really means the PM could have taken the decision himself. The GG hasn't "kept the government in check" for decades; hell, Michaëlle Jean allowed Harper to escape a democratic vote by proroguing parliament two years ago. If that's keeping the government in check...

On paper it might well be an important piece of our democratic system, but in practice it's just useless nowadays, serving no other purpose than spending tons of money on frivolous, unchecked expenses.

 

[Zzoram]

It's as if the whole 'Natural Ruling Party' thing is now biting them in the ass, with the Grits being seen as something of an incumbent, even though they've been out of office for 5 years.

I think that does have something to do with it. It feels like the Liberals are always on the defensive, even when Harper is the one in office and fucking stuff up. The Liberals need to fundraise (might be the problem, they're poor) and highlight every day everywhere how Harper raised taxes on the poor to offset his GST cut and how he made tons of money disappear over a weekend.

 

[Zzoram]

I know all of that. But the fact of the matter is that the GG is nothing more than a ceremonial, official role in the political system with no real power or influence. Whatever little actual power is left is really guided by precedence and using the Prime Minister's advice, which really means the PM could have taken the decision himself. The GG hasn't "kept the government in check" for decades; hell, Michaëlle Jean allowed Harper to escape a democratic vote by proroguing parliament two years ago. If that's keeping the government in check...

On paper it might well be an important piece of our democratic system, but in practice it's just useless nowadays, serving no other purpose than spending tons of money on frivolous, unchecked expenses.

The GG position in our government does need to go. I don't think it should be a top priority though, but eventually I do expect it will be phased out somehow. It won't happen until there is a majority government though that can spare the time to pay attention to stuff like this.

 

[Simon Belmont]

I know all of that. But the fact of the matter is that the GG is nothing more than a ceremonial, official role in the political system with no real power or influence. Whatever little actual power is left is really guided by precedence and using the Prime Minister's advice, which really means the PM could have taken the decision himself. The GG hasn't "kept the government in check" for decades; hell, Michaëlle Jean allowed Harper to escape a democratic vote by proroguing parliament two years ago. If that's keeping the government in check...

On paper it might well be an important piece of our democratic system, but in practice it's just useless nowadays, serving no other purpose than spending tons of money on frivolous, unchecked expenses.

That being said it would require a constitutional amendment, and complete cessation from the Crown to achieve. Neither of those things are politically viable within the foreseeable future.

 

[Simon Belmont]

The GG position in our government does need to go. I don't think it should be a top priority though, but eventually I do expect it will be phased out somehow. It won't happen until there is a majority government though that can spare the time to pay attention to stuff like this.

You can't just 'phase out' parts of the constitution.

 

[Zzoram]

That being said it would require a constitutional amendment, and complete cessation from the Crown to achieve. Neither of those things are politically viable within the foreseeable future.

You can't just 'phase out' parts of the constitution.

Getting rid of the GG is not a big deal right now. It may be a waste of money but there are more important and easier things to fix first. Bringing back the long form census is more important and would be the easiest first thing for the Liberals to do when they get their act together and take office again.

 

[firehawk12]

Getting rid of the GG is not a big deal right now. It may be a waste of money but there are more important and easier things to fix first. Bringing back the long form census is more important.

Well, the latest wackiness with Harper kind of shows we need a GG in lieu of any actual rules dealing with when parliament can be dissolved and transfers of power.

We couldn't even get Meech Lake/Charlottetown done, so... yeah. :lol

 

[Simon Belmont]

I don't think there would be anything stopping any party from introducing legislation making prorogation contingent on a house vote.

 

[firehawk12]

I don't think there would be anything stopping any party from introducing legislation making prorogation contingent on a house vote.

Probably. I'm thinking more of formal power sharing agreements on the scale of the proposed NDP/Liberal government from what feels like ages ago.

 

[Zzoram]

The problem is Dalton McGuinty sucks and he's dragging down the Federal Liberals by turning off Ontario to the Liberal brand. Federal Liberals are way better than Ontario Liberals, but it's hard to make the distinction when their parties share the same name.

However, we need a non-crazy Ontario PC candidate to replace McGuinty. Then the Federal Liberals will get a real chance to return to power. Traditionally, Ontario always has the opposite party to the Federal one. I think it's some weird way for people to feel like they're balancing out power between parties.

I'm just scared of what the Ontario PC would do. We already know they've got the whole religious school funding thing in the back of their minds. They could probably try to pull it off in an indirect way by giving huge tax credits for people who send their kids to private school (awful, it only rewards the rich or fundies since tuition will still be more than the tax rebate and takes their share of the education tax money out of the system for the poor). That plus I bet the Ontario PC would try to privatize all their assets like how they privatized Ontario Hydro, which turned out to be a shitty idea.

 

[RevoDS]

We couldn't even get Meech Lake/Charlottetown done, so... yeah. :lol

That will have to be fixed eventually though...we can't retain a dysfunctional constitution forever. It's not happening anytime soon and there are indeed more pressing matters, but at some point we'll have to get back at it.

 

[firehawk12]

That will have to be fixed eventually though...we can't retain a dysfunctional constitution forever. It's not happening anytime soon and there are indeed more pressing matters, but at some point we'll have to get back at it.

Yep. I'm a nerd for this shit so I'd love to see it happen... but I just don't think anyone wants to revisit something that divisive in our life time.

 

[Simon Belmont]

The problem is Dalton McGuinty sucks and he's dragging down the Federal Liberals by turning off Ontario to the Liberal brand. Federal Liberals are way better than Ontario Liberals, but it's hard to make the distinction when their parties share the same name.

However, we need a non-crazy Ontario PC candidate to replace McGuinty. Then the Federal Liberals will get a real chance to return to power. Traditionally, Ontario always has the opposite party to the Federal one. I think it's some weird way for people to feel like they're balancing out power between parties.

I'm just scared of what the Ontario PC would do. We already know they've got the whole religious school funding thing in the back of their minds. They could probably try to pull it off in an indirect way by giving huge tax credits for people who send their kids to private school (awful, it only rewards the rich or fundies since tuition will still be more than the tax rebate and takes their share of the education tax money out of the system for the poor).

After being a student in the Harris years I could never vote PC. I'd like my kids to have services and programs in their schools.

 

[Zzoram]

After being a student in the Harris years I could never vote PC. I'd like my kids to have services and programs in their schools.

It's too bad that even when the Liberals are sucking, the Conservatives are often still a shittier option.

Mike Harris got a lot of hate but I don't think I hate what he did overall. His first term was actually somewhat successful. He cut taxes a lot, which is how he got elected, and maybe in the end it turned out to be a bad move. Cutting some of the overspending by the NDP on social services was fine, but firing nurses wasn't cool. Neither was cutting public transit in Toronto, the city which needs public transit the most, and where public transit is most efficient. Also, he sold Highway 407 to a private consortium for way too cheap ($4B when it cost $100B just to buy the land for the highway and $1.6B to build it), a highway that was built with taxpayer dollars. Breaking up Ontario Hydra was kinda pointless and probably overall a bad move. However a lot of his moves helped eliminate the debt in Ontario so overall his first term was probably positive. Merging municipalities was sorta good, sorta bad. He offloaded some costs to cities by doing it, but it did reduce a bit of unnecessary overlaps in government too.

His second term went to shit though with Walkerton (not exactly his fault, the guy running the place was too lazy to do real testing and just made up reports for years, although Harris cuts to inspection were blamed). He also made literacy and job training/placements a requirement for welfare, kicking 500,000 people off it. Not sure how I feel about that, I do think people on welfare should be getting job training and placements, but if they didn't know how to read, I think they should've been given tutoring classes instead of immediately kicked off welfare. Weakening school boards and putting in standardized testing may have pissed off teachers but I think that was fine. Cutting the number of prep hours teachers got by requiring them to teach an extra class pissed off teachers super hard but I don't know if it was really that bad. The thing I disgreed with most during this term was his plan to give tax rebates to people who sent their kids to private Christian schools. I don't think that passed so that's fine. Oh and he cut out OAC, the 5th year of high school, but that's fine, it wasn't necessary and a lot of people graduated without it anyways.

I guess upon reflection, Mike Harris wasn't so bad. He did some crappy things but also did some good and necessary things to balance the budget.



I'd rather have Conservatives running Ontario than Canada. The worst they can do in Ontario is keep trying to fund private Christian schools and sell off Crown assets. I think Ontario needs some business tax cuts to help revive the economy (it's better than the cash bribes for businesses to setup shop in Ontario that the Liberals are doing) but the Liberals won't do it so it might take a term of Conservatives at the helm to get that done.