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Capcom: Street Fighter V's ESRB rating was the "primary factor" in removing buttslap

GrantDaNasty said:
Having an M rating was deemed unacceptable by Capcom, ESRB would've just slapped an M on the box and been done with it.

This is not censorship, this is a business decision. If this bothers you, go yell at Capcom.
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How about we yell at ESRB for thinking a butt slap is enough to give a game an M rating in the first place?

If my life were a game right now, and I slapped my ass (to, say, dust off a bit)...right now....the game of my life would now be rated M?

That makes zero sense.
 
Gentleman Jack said:
Walmart has policies about selling M rated games, as do I'm sure other retailers. Depending on how strictly those are enforced, an M rating would definitely have an impact on sales.
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LOL

The policy is "check for ID." M rating rarely stops a thing. Doesn't stop GTA. Doesn't stop CoD. Doesn't stop Halo (Halo was M, remember? Hell, it sold worse when they dropped it to T. =P). Doesn't stop a damn thing.

Capcom's primary fanbase, the ones they now claim to have aimed this release at, are M rated as fuck. There is nothing "T" about the FGC. A bunch of grown men and women, cussing on stream, gambling on fights and wildling out on a routine basis.
 
GrantDaNasty said:
Yes because that is illegal, hence why they won't sell M-rated games to children under the appropriate age because the fines and bad press associated with breaking laws isn't worth the hassle. By that logic, alcohol and cigarettes undergo censorship.
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It is not illegal to sell an M rated game to a minor due to free speech and expression of art as ruled by the Supreme Court.

Many retailers however do have policies refusing the sale of an M rated title. Thats the classic definition of censorship.
 
5mPgE5o.png


The PNJ on the right is cracking me up. Whoever took the shot, nicely done.
 
Scientist Supreme! said:
This is still not censorship, so I don't see your point.
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Self censorship is a thing when trying to conform to a moral or societal standard. Even though some people are dead set on suggesting it can never exist because of business decisions.

This statement confirms, even though anyone with half a brain already knew, that this decision wasnt made as a creative design change. It was made for the sake of compromise and conformity to not offend. The derivative of that is a T rating.
 
GrantDaNasty said:
Yes because that is illegal, hence why they won't sell M-rated games to children under the appropriate age because the fines and bad press associated with breaking laws isn't worth the hassle. By that logic, alcohol and cigarettes undergo censorship. If you disagree with ratings on game boxes/media, that's another topic completely.
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it's not illegal.

it's retailer choice.

several proposed and passed laws to legally enforce the ratings have all been struck down.
 
jhmtehgamr20xx said:
How about we yell at ESRB for thinking a butt slap is enough to give a game an M rating in the first place?

If my life were a game right now, and I slapped my ass (to, say, dust off a bit)...right now....the game of my life would now be rated M?

That makes zero sense.
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*shrug*

Feel free to yell at anyone you'd like to, I honestly don't think this little animation matters one iota, and if I were an exec at Capcom, and was told removing this would loosen the rating from M to T, you'd bet your bottom dollar I'd be down with that.
 
Gentleman Jack said:
Walmart has policies about selling M rated games, as do I'm sure other retailers. Depending on how strictly those are enforced, an M rating would definitely have an impact on sales.
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For those bringing up an M rating having an impact on sales - can we just fully state that MK, a series that has been a HARD M rating, and was the impetus for the ESRB even being created, has not only been M rated for the entirety of its franchise history, but has also vastly outsold Street Fighter. There is no comparison between SF5 sales & MKX sales, and MKX is a M rated game. Yes, there are other factors at play here, but even when we compare SF4 sales to MKX or MK9 sales, it still pales in comparison.

Ratings don't really have an impact on a title's sales. We'd like to think they do, but they don't.
 
ESRB is broken. Even if it just comes down to lewd animations Mika's finisher literally involves a character being crushed by her bare butt cheeks which is far worse than the slap. The zooming in on crotches is one of the least concerning things when it comes to the representation of women in V.
 
Unspeakable Evil said:
But I get the feeling SF5 fanbase is made up hardcore fans who would buy the game regardless of rating.
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Less than half of whom showed up last month to buy it at retail. Capcom must have had some idea of the risk an M rating would present to bringing in the new fans they really need to keep one of their marquee franchises afloat.
 
Nirolak said:
You don't consider the ESRB an external influence?
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Sure but Capcom isn't an artist, they are a corporation trying to make as much money as possible.

Its not censorship, they are not being told they CAN'T have it, they are being told what rating they will get if they keep it, and the rating (and money that comes with additional customers) is more important to them then artistic integrity. If that makes someone not want to be their customer, that is their choice as well.
 
jhmtehgamr20xx said:
How about we yell at ESRB for thinking a butt slap is enough to give a game an M rating in the first place?

If my life were a game right now, and I slapped my ass (to, say, dust off a bit)...right now....the game of my life would now be rated M?

That makes zero sense.
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i agree. it makes no sense.

it also makes no sense that Capcom doesn't just accept the M like many successful brands do.

they are cowards who don't stand behind their own artistic freedom while other fighting games and many other games in general accept their M rating and go on to sell millions.
 
Glix said:
Sure but Capcom isn't an artist, they are a corporation trying to make as much money as possible.

Its not censorship, they are not being told they CAN'T have it, they are being told what rating they will get if they keep it, and the rating (and money that comes with additional customers) is more important to them then artistic integrity. If that makes someone not want to be their customer, that is their choice as well.
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Oh, to be clear, that's not what I mean.

I just feel his statement is trying to make it sound like it's something they came up with internally in response to fan criticism and a push for inclusiveness when in reality it's a response to wanting to hit a rating for business reasons.
 
GuardianE said:
Self censorship is a thing when trying to conform to a moral or societal standard. Even though some people are dead set on suggesting it can never exist because of business decisions.

This statement confirms, even though anyone with half a brain already knew, that this decision wasnt made as a creative design change. It was made for the sake of compromise and conformity.
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Of course it exist but it doesn't carry the same negative connotations as actual censorship does. Since it's a person changing or changing a aspect of their art for personal or business reason, which we all do everyday. There's nothing wrong with self-censorship.
 
Scientist Supreme! said:
Of course it exist but it doesn't carry the same negative connotations as actual censorship does. Since it's a person changing or changing a aspect of their art for personal or business reason, which we all do everyday. There's nothing wrong with self-censorship.
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Self censorship is a form of censorship. It's in the name. As for whether it's wrong or right, that's a matter of context and opinion.
 
Kintaro said:
Know what is awesome about this? She winks. Like, she is totally self aware of her movements. What a fun touch.

I love you Laura. o/
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That's because she is bae. But that is off topic.

The topic is ASS. And how having a wonderful ass brings it over to an M rating somehow.

Like, you need to be 17+ to understand the ASS?!!! Wat TA FUCK AMERICA!?
 
Nirolak said:
Oh, to be clear, that's not what I mean.

I just feel his statement is trying to make it sound like it's something they came up with internally in response to fan criticism and a push for inclusiveness when in reality it's a response to wanting to hit a rating for business reasons.
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Ah, I see. I missed the part where they are getting criticized for bending to public outcry, I thought they would be just taking heat for "censorship".
 
Mesoian said:
Considering the amount of overhead on that, I'd still rather see those sales numbers. That DLC is doing NO WORK in the americas and the grand majority of proliferation for DOA5 is digital. Meanwhile SF4 has been almost purely retail across 8 years and 5 releases. I'm not quite sure the Whales of DOA5 can outbuy the hardcore and casual markets for Street Fighter.

Not to say that DOA5 is doing bad work, I actually like their model (even if I think most of the DLC they've offered is some straight garbage), I just don't know how well it's working compared to other more traditional models.
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The vast majority of DLC is sold in the West, their magins are highest in the west since that's where their base is. To know how well it is working think of it as Koei does not overspend on anything and yet they have 3 season passes and the game has 900 costumes, their best sellers are not even the bikinis. Just looking at those numbers you can tell how well it's doing. What game has 3 season passes? They may go on to their 4th realitivly soon.
 
I'm trying to figure out which is funnier

  • Butt Slap pushes a game up to an M (especially compared to what else is in the game)
  • Ono "lying"
  • Capcom is worried an M might scare away newcomers yet don't launch their game with newcomer friendly content
  • Mortal Kombat has been a hard M series all its life that has consistently and still to this day outsells Street Fighter

What a mess :P
 
Crocodile said:
I'm trying to figure out which is funnier

  • Butt Slap pushes a game up to an M
  • Ono "lying"
  • Capcom is worried an M might scare away newcomers yet don't launch their game with newcomer friendly content
  • Mortal Kombat has been a hard M series all its life that has consistently and still to this day outsells Street Fighter

What a mess :P
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second-guessing oneself is always bad. they should've just went with it. why worry about something so mundane.
 
Crocodile said:
I'm trying to figure out which is funnier

  • Butt Slap pushes a game up to an M
  • Ono "lying"
  • Capcom is worried an M might scare away newcomers yet don't launch their game with newcomer friendly content
  • Mortal Kombat has been a hard M series all its life that has consistently and still to this day outsells Street Fighter

What a mess :P
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Ikr! I feel like I am in the twighlight zone or something where nothing makes sense. Wow wow wow.

I mean, I'm so confused I can't even be fully mad. I'm just so shocked. Never thought I'd see the day where Mk reigns over SF. Never.
 
Scientist Supreme! said:
I guess you decide to not read my post since I didn't disagree with that. Also, what's wrong with it?
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Oh I'm not trying to argue whether its morally acceptable to anyone and I dont think he is either. Thats up to the individual on whether they want to be cool with it in this case or not.

But yeah there is certainly an aspect of censorship here. Not all censorship is inherently bad of course.
 
Crocodile said:
I'm trying to figure out which is funnier

  • Butt Slap pushes a game up to an M (especially compared to what else is in the game)
  • Ono "lying"
  • Capcom is worried an M might scare away newcomers yet don't launch their game with newcomer friendly content
  • Mortal Kombat has been a hard M series all its life that has consistently and still to this day outsells Street Fighter
Click to expand...

hqdefault.jpg
 
Obliterator said:
Oh I'm not trying to argue whether its morally acceptable to anyone and I dont think he is either. Thats up to the individual on whether they want to be cool with it in this case or not.

But yeah there is certainly an aspect of censorship here. Not all censorship is inherently bad of course.
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Which is what I was implying.
 
Vex Krone said:
Speaking of "zeroing in":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn5ulZklaWc

Look at how the camera is basically glued to her ass and tits. Esrb didn't have a problem with this??¿! C'mon.
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Not enough to push the rating of the game but enough to mention it during their summary (that I bet most people don't read)

Street Fighter 5

Platform: Windows PC, PlayStation 4
Rating Category: T
Content Descriptors: Mild Language, Suggestive Themes, Violence
Other: Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB (Windows PC, PlayStation 4)
Rating Summary: This is a fighting game in which players engage in one-on-one combat with a large cast of human characters. Players mostly punch, kick, and use special attacks (e.g., fireballs, flying attacks, electrical strikes) to deplete opponents' life meters. Some characters use weapons such as claws and chains; some special moves are depicted in brief cutscenes with slow-motion, dramatic close-ups and opponent reaction shots. Combat is highlighted by cries of pain and frequent impact sounds. Several female characters are depicted in low-cut, form-fitting outfits that display large amounts of cleavage and/or buttocks. Female characters' breasts sometimes jiggle during character selection. The words “a*s” and “bastard” appear in the dialogue.
 
The slap got "removed" right around the time the game got rated. Anyone who believes otherwise is silly and paranoid.
 
Obliterator said:
"the practice of officially examining books, movies, etc., and suppressing unacceptable parts."

Thats what it is. Parts were deemed unacceptable by the ESRB not internally and were thus changed. You can be pro censorship in this case but thats what happened. Capcom didn't change it internally of their own artistic choosing. They were forced to to in order to hit the ESRB guideline.

Though why a butt slap takes it from T to M is really weird
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Your argument would make more sense if M-rated games were illegal or unsellable or something.

Capcom weren't forced by anything other than their own desire to get a T-rating. Now, there's plenty of room for debate regarding the ESRB's guidelines and whether they're reasonable or consistent or whatever, but Capcom was ultimately in control of this decision about content. If it was an artistic rather than commercial issue, they would have stood by their original choice and taken the M rating.
 
Scientist Supreme! said:
I guess you decide to not read my post since I didn't disagree with that. Also, what's wrong with it?
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I did read your post. You decided to distinguish between the two with self censorship vs "actual censorship", which to me is a rather irrelevant distinction. Or at least one that implies that one side isn't real when it definitely is.

And for me, design changes are made at a variety of levels, from the creative side to the publishing side to the localization side. If a change is made only within the context as to not offend a particular group and not enforced on the creative side, I don't see it as a generally positive thing. It usually involves the specific removal of something with a net negative. It depends on what's cut and the people/situation involved.
 
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