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Capcom: Western developers start with the visuals, while Japan focuses on gameplay.
- Thread starter DaSorcerer7
- Start date
Final Fantasy 13? Uh yeah. Go ahead and list all the other Japanese games from this gen with literal hours of fancy CG scenes, amazing graphics, and almost no gameplay for the first 50% of the game.
Even FF13-2 doesn't qualify.
IrrelevantNotch
Banned
Expensive games are designed by marketing execs.
way of saying
no need to get all fanboy about it, im just stating that Final Fantasy is Japan's flag title, not it's exception. I dont disagree with you, I was just refering to that comment.
Castor Krieg
Banned
Is this why all Japanese games have some shitty gimmick detailed in 124323243425 issues of Famitsu?
Not to mention - Capcom, really? The guys that make Resident Evil with it's outdated control scheme? Really, the guys that cannot incorporate movement system from Gears of War, which was a 2006 game?
Also, this post if just an excuse for saying "we suck at HD graphics! graphics are not important!".
Not to mention - Capcom, really? The guys that make Resident Evil with it's outdated control scheme? Really, the guys that cannot incorporate movement system from Gears of War, which was a 2006 game?
Also, this post if just an excuse for saying "we suck at HD graphics! graphics are not important!".
universalmind
Member
Capcom sucks.
AKingNamedPaul
I am Homie
Flag title not Mario?
good point, let's say "one of the"
Riposte
Member
What a weird imaginary narrative you've written for yourself.
If you ask me, games which "focus on gameplay" have this annoying tendency to choose a gameplay mechanic that no one asked for.
Like "He's a guy who has magnets for hands, which means you can solve puzzles, but be careful or you'll stick to the ceiling!"
The best games are, were, and will always be those in which you pick up the controller (or other input device), and you're instantly on your way.
Like "He's a guy who has magnets for hands, which means you can solve puzzles, but be careful or you'll stick to the ceiling!"
The best games are, were, and will always be those in which you pick up the controller (or other input device), and you're instantly on your way.
Horse Armour
Member
Well it looks like Capcom are moving back to their PS2 heritage judging by their RE6 efforts:
Palette Swap
Member
Love blanket statements like that, coming from a couple of examples.
By that rationale, you could say Japan focuses on trailers, seeing VS or TLG.
edit: also, graphics/gameplay first doesn't necessarily mean graphics/gameplay at the cost of gameplay/graphics.
By that rationale, you could say Japan focuses on trailers, seeing VS or TLG.
edit: also, graphics/gameplay first doesn't necessarily mean graphics/gameplay at the cost of gameplay/graphics.
Yes, that would be the problem faced by Japanese devs......
Glass Rebel
Member
Well, when you consider that Capcom has worked mostly with shit western developers it isn't that surprising that they think this way.
ComputerMKII
Banned
That's some deep technical analysis right there. Give him a Ph.D already.
thomasmahler
Moon Studios
I'd say that's a load of bull.
I've never worked on any game where the gameplay wasn't tested out with early prototypes for quite some time before the art production really began. I think western developers that have gone through this kinda stuff probably just have their pipelines set up so that art is the first thing a publisher usually sees. It's easy to produce and it's nice to look at.
With how fundamentally broken and shitty some of the recent japanese games were, I'd be surprised if that statement is even true. A ton of japanese games in the recent years had okay'ish graphics and just really bland, shitty, old gameplay to go through. I mean, shit, we still have fucking high scores, lives and continue systems even in Super Mario. They're still kicking you out to the title screen on a game over in Castlevania or Resident Evil.
I've never worked on any game where the gameplay wasn't tested out with early prototypes for quite some time before the art production really began. I think western developers that have gone through this kinda stuff probably just have their pipelines set up so that art is the first thing a publisher usually sees. It's easy to produce and it's nice to look at.
With how fundamentally broken and shitty some of the recent japanese games were, I'd be surprised if that statement is even true. A ton of japanese games in the recent years had okay'ish graphics and just really bland, shitty, old gameplay to go through. I mean, shit, we still have fucking high scores, lives and continue systems even in Super Mario. They're still kicking you out to the title screen on a game over in Castlevania or Resident Evil.
seems to be the same many people wrote
Riposte
Member
If something isn't the norm, then it is an exception. As Japanese developers have largely moved away from very expensive console development, games like Final Fantasy XIII are indeed the exception amongst its genre peers. Itsuno's Dragon's Dogma is another huge console title and that seemed to have followed what he said.
Just because people are obsessed over certain names and trailers doesn't mean reality can be so easily discarded.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you made a typo and don't actually think Seth Killian leaving had any effect on Ono "going insane" and SFxTK being unsatisfactory.
walking fiend
Member
The issue Japanese devs are facing can actually be pretty much seen in RE.Well it looks like Capcom are moving back to their PS2 heritage judging by their RE6 efforts:
Last gen RE4 not only had exceptional gameplay, but also looked exceptional too, bested only by few titles.
I guess the main reason Japanese devs fell behind this gen, is that 360 being a powerhouse, and PS3 following the suite, caused the former western PC devs to move to the consoles; while of course Japanese fell behind due to their lack of expertise with PC development and advanced graphic techs.
Riposte
Member
I don't think he means literally graphics coming before mechanics. He probably means more the lines of art design taking precedence.
Your second paragraph is totally stupid, but more importantly, that last sentence is factually incorrect.
You are ignoring that RE5 is one of the best looking console games and one of the best looking console ports on PC. RE6 looks the way it does for reasons outside neglect. The engine has been changed so different things get priority (which can see in the vastly improved lighting) and the game is about three times as large.
hahah, I see how you read it but that's not how I meant it. I was just mentioning those 3 things happening.
eso76
Member
this must be the reason why they had western developers take care of some of their most important IP's.
Also, i don't even remember the last proper japanese game i played.
Oh, wait. Bayonetta probably.
Oh, and Vanquish.
So turn it into "Western developers start with the visuals, while Platinum games focuses on gameplay" and it's about right.
Also, i don't even remember the last proper japanese game i played.
Oh, wait. Bayonetta probably.
Oh, and Vanquish.
So turn it into "Western developers start with the visuals, while Platinum games focuses on gameplay" and it's about right.
I think he's trying to emphasise the fact that Japanese developers think about the game logic and how to make it fun before they start developing the other areas of the game. As opposed to western developers who build the game world first before adjusting the gameplay. The best example really is skyrim vs dark souls.
It has a lot to do with western developers and how important graphics are in order to sell a game. It's all about the trailers and screenshots. They want the game to look amazing because every extra screenshot is extra media time and more publicity. Gameplay isn't as critical because it's more important to make u shell out the dollars first. It's only once you have the game can you really give the game a workout.
Secondly I find most western games are either indie or massively mainstream. All the b grade titles are gone. Of course t doesn't make financial sense to have these titles. So most of the gameplay mechanics in western titles are easier to grasp for mainstream games. That's how you make more money. In Japan many adults still play games and watch anime and such so the level of entry is a lot older and they can grasp deeper concepts. But I guess in America it's all about getting the widest audience as possible. That's why I think games like ratchet and clank look amazing but to be perfectly honest is not very challenging. Pretty sure any 7 year old kid could pick it up and beat it but he would have a harder time beating ninja gaiden.
So I think its not that western devs don't want to make gameplay complicated but I think they get blocked by the publishers who insist no one will probably play it if they make it hard to grasp
It has a lot to do with western developers and how important graphics are in order to sell a game. It's all about the trailers and screenshots. They want the game to look amazing because every extra screenshot is extra media time and more publicity. Gameplay isn't as critical because it's more important to make u shell out the dollars first. It's only once you have the game can you really give the game a workout.
Secondly I find most western games are either indie or massively mainstream. All the b grade titles are gone. Of course t doesn't make financial sense to have these titles. So most of the gameplay mechanics in western titles are easier to grasp for mainstream games. That's how you make more money. In Japan many adults still play games and watch anime and such so the level of entry is a lot older and they can grasp deeper concepts. But I guess in America it's all about getting the widest audience as possible. That's why I think games like ratchet and clank look amazing but to be perfectly honest is not very challenging. Pretty sure any 7 year old kid could pick it up and beat it but he would have a harder time beating ninja gaiden.
So I think its not that western devs don't want to make gameplay complicated but I think they get blocked by the publishers who insist no one will probably play it if they make it hard to grasp
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Nemesis_
Member
CecilRousso
Member
If this is the case, then I wonder why the majority of the big innovations still come from west. I would really like to see some bigger leaps in the genres they are mostly interest in at least. 
Feel free to correct me though, I´m saying that as a fact but as a feeling I have.
Feel free to correct me though, I´m saying that as a fact but as a feeling I have.
I'd agree with this in general.
Look at the Wii - not that powerful graphically, but there are some amazing Japanese games for it. The Western developers mostly released shovelware for it, with a few exceptions. The big studios weren't releasing for it despite millions of consumers owning it, simply because it didn't have "enough power". But oddly it was powerful enough for games like Xenoblade and Monster Hunter.
Recent games like Modern Warfare 3 and Skyrim were lauded by the Western press for their amazing graphics, but when it comes down to it both are rather dull games.
Look at the Wii - not that powerful graphically, but there are some amazing Japanese games for it. The Western developers mostly released shovelware for it, with a few exceptions. The big studios weren't releasing for it despite millions of consumers owning it, simply because it didn't have "enough power". But oddly it was powerful enough for games like Xenoblade and Monster Hunter.
Recent games like Modern Warfare 3 and Skyrim were lauded by the Western press for their amazing graphics, but when it comes down to it both are rather dull games.
Well it looks like Capcom are moving back to their PS2 heritage judging by their RE6 efforts:
Yeah, I can totally see where you're coming from.
Here's the thing: if Resident Evil used a control system like Gears it would largely cease to be Resident Evil. It would be Gears with zombies. AKA: RE:ORC
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I hate this japan vs the west thing. I buy for for fun addictive gameplay no matter where a games from.I do understand the visual side, but I could put up with this gens graphics for a damn long time if everything could be bumped up to 60fps.
this emphasis on making a game look pretty and have no substance (by both sides of the pond) is going to destroy itself eventually.
i still rather play Tetris than heavy rain or uncharted.
this emphasis on making a game look pretty and have no substance (by both sides of the pond) is going to destroy itself eventually.
i still rather play Tetris than heavy rain or uncharted.
Hellraider
Member
It's possible to create a true Resident Evil game no matter the controls.Level design,enemy encounter and a couple of other mechanics (ammo management for example) RE is known for can easily adapt.Not that I'm saying this is going to happen with RE6, but it is not impossible.
Castor Krieg
Banned
Since when control scheme defines the game?
PubbyMcbrosef
Banned
Really ?
I can't even count on one hand the number of japanese games that have had retarded, convoluted control schemes the likes of which have never seen any gameplay testing.
Likewise I can't describe the sheer amount of agony, I , personally, have lived through while trying to understand the half baked, half explained, and utterly asinine design features and gameplay mechanics
that inhabite over half of the japanese games I have played. I'm talking about concepts so goddamn foreign to the human psyche that they simply could not have been birthed from any sane mind regardless of wether or not this mind was japanese.
Furthermore the complete blindsighted idiocy found in trying to explain gameplay concepts without a functional way to represent these ideas graphically is probably what is leading to the aforementioned clusterfuck of mechanics and gameplay concepts.
It's not even a western vs japanese type thing. Because in my honest opinion I've seem some grand'mal seizure type distasters from both sides of the pond. It's about smart people disengaging the brain and just riding a coaster of complacency and corporate doctrine towards an everflowing pond of fecal matter.
I can't even count on one hand the number of japanese games that have had retarded, convoluted control schemes the likes of which have never seen any gameplay testing.
Likewise I can't describe the sheer amount of agony, I , personally, have lived through while trying to understand the half baked, half explained, and utterly asinine design features and gameplay mechanics
that inhabite over half of the japanese games I have played. I'm talking about concepts so goddamn foreign to the human psyche that they simply could not have been birthed from any sane mind regardless of wether or not this mind was japanese.
Furthermore the complete blindsighted idiocy found in trying to explain gameplay concepts without a functional way to represent these ideas graphically is probably what is leading to the aforementioned clusterfuck of mechanics and gameplay concepts.
It's not even a western vs japanese type thing. Because in my honest opinion I've seem some grand'mal seizure type distasters from both sides of the pond. It's about smart people disengaging the brain and just riding a coaster of complacency and corporate doctrine towards an everflowing pond of fecal matter.
makingmusic476
Member
I'd actually say the gameplay in this was spot on. The battle system was great.
The problem was the design of the world, mainly the level design and enemy placement.
Kinda falls in between the two.
Canis lupus
Member
FF13 gameplay graphics were okay, nothing exceptional. The CGI however was out of the world.
Seriously, I couldn't stop laughing at that!
thomasmahler
Moon Studios
WiiU version of NSMB, supposed to be released later this year. Top right corner.
I'm sure it'll also still bank on other clever things like limited lives with unlimited continues that give you 5 lives back should you lose all of them (the fuck?), or the stupid checkpoint system that makes you replay half of a level, etc.
Japanese developers used to be on the top of the world, but it really very strongly feels like they've been resting on their laurels. They're afraid to change anything, they're afraid to innovate. Nintendo used to be a company that reinvented itself with each and every game - now they're a company that makes safer bets than Electronic Arts.
With Capcom at this point basically having gotten rid of everything that made Resident Evil special in the PSone days (what in the world do the newer REs have to do with Survival Horror?) and copying aspects of, say, the Gears series, I really don't see how that Capcom statement applies to the actual results they're getting.