echoshifting
Banned
This bugged me too. Made no damn sense.
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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos
- Thread starter Son Of D
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This bugged me too. Made no damn sense.
Alot of the hits Spidey took was due to his inexperience. Notice how Falcon "beat" him by using the drone, Cap took him down by doing the flippity flip with his web and he gets smacked by Ant-Man when he become a giant.
roflwaffles
Member
Spoiler Alert:
Dying
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
Am I the only one who forgot Tony's parents were killed in a car crash, so I was taken aback by the video reveal?
Oh YO actually just remembered I think the moment that really made me just shake my head was when Spidey webbed both of Caps hands and Cap somehow yanked him forward? Like... what? That's a straight tug of war there. And Cap somehow won. Not to mention Spidey has sticky feet for extra traction on the ground as support.
Like man what even
why is Cap suddenly so strong in this
Cap suuuuuuucks
I keep saying that because that's basically what you and some have said all since. Ultron is all Tony but wanda, hydra and banner gets a pass for that. Captain is always right even though the movie shows plenty flaws in him, he might as well get away with murder cause he's goodie two shoes with charming good looks. I don't dislike cap but the overwhelming pandering to shift the debate in his favour us irritating, esp trying to make out Tony as villain when in fact, the movie shows both sides as good in intention and flawed at thier extremes but you know, team cap and all that selfish nonsense, how dare 117 countries want oversight
Ultron hackibg from the inside. Vision is a puppet.
He also clearly lacks stamina at this early point in his Spiderman life. After half the battle he was all "Yeah.... I'm done..."
He was freaking exhausted. Its clearly not a prime spiderman. They were very forceful with that point of the story, stuffing in comments about him "getting used to the suit" and whatnot. I can't believe people are surprised he was matched by some folks with more experience.
Strength is only one variable of a fight. And none of those guys were really trying to kill each other so much as incapacitate them.
Scarlett: "You were pulling your punches"
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
But as soon as you leash them, you limit how truly effective as heroes they can be, not to mention the potential for abuse by individual states with politics.
Plus, it's always much easier to blame the heroes for not winning overwhelmingly, even though without them, although, say, Ultron wouldn't have been a problem, Loki would have won in the first avengers movie, or Hydra would have quietly taken over SHIELD.
Blame is always easy to assign in hindsight, especially with such easy targets.
Admittedly, I shook my head in that Wanda didn't just send the explosion up into the middle of the open square, and instead had it go right next to the building. Seemed...convenient, given how her powers later send Vision through hundreds of feet of solid rock.
I took it more as him trying to assuage his guilty conscience, even if the 'incredibly convenient' placement of the State department lady, complete with picture, just happened to be waiting to prey on Tony's guilty conscience and break-up with Pepper annoyed me, somewhat.
edit: Did like the nod to the Shield insanity with Spidey commenting on how it didn't obey the laws of physics at all. Vibranium is hax,
Like I said, unexpected moves like that beats him.
If it's just a simple tug-of-war, Spidey would've won.
Ummm leverage? He webbed Caps hand as he was standing behind him.
In the movie, Tony tells cap (when he's trying to convince him to sign) something like "Sokovia, that's on me". I'm not attributing anything to him that the movies didn't attribute to him. Plus I've not given Wanda or Hydra a pass - Wanda showed Iron Man his biggest fear and he acted on that. Hydra...had the scepter for him to take...okay.
The MCU has done a great job of putting both Tony and Steve right where they need to be to make the decisions they make EACH with their own bad ramifications from those choices. I don't have to vilify Tony just because I'm Team Cap. I've said this exact same thing to you like 3 or 4 times now, I'm sorry you don't seem to understand that.
Cabbagehead
Member
Just got back from seeing this movie. It was amazing, that airport scene was boss. Turned out to be funnier then i thought (Given the subject matter), funnier then Winter Solider and the fights were ten time's.
Tom Holland is Spiderman! perfect casting. His movie could turn out to be the greatest of them all if it's done right. So Sony Better not stick their nose were it does not belong.
Chad as Black Panther i need more! Expect to see some awesome shut in the future.
Wanda has really grown on me. The shit she did to Vision was crazy and unexpected! And Jeremy redeemed Hawkeye for me.
Antman and Paul convinced me in this movie. GIANTMAN BABY!!
I understood Zemo. He really wasn't wasted and he did succeed in his plans in crumbling the Avengers. Because they're pretty variable all things considered.
Really feel bad for Bucky, to be a pawn like that and have to remember the things you did. Must be hellish "I remember them all".
Shit made sense here. Though its not without its flaws but it doesn't out way the work the Russo brother did. Great Film, amazing Superhero movie most definitely in my top 5. Its a movie with heart and emotion plus great action.
Tom Holland is Spiderman! perfect casting. His movie could turn out to be the greatest of them all if it's done right. So Sony Better not stick their nose were it does not belong.
Chad as Black Panther i need more! Expect to see some awesome shut in the future.
Wanda has really grown on me. The shit she did to Vision was crazy and unexpected! And Jeremy redeemed Hawkeye for me.
Antman and Paul convinced me in this movie. GIANTMAN BABY!!
I understood Zemo. He really wasn't wasted and he did succeed in his plans in crumbling the Avengers. Because they're pretty variable all things considered.
Really feel bad for Bucky, to be a pawn like that and have to remember the things you did. Must be hellish "I remember them all".
Shit made sense here. Though its not without its flaws but it doesn't out way the work the Russo brother did. Great Film, amazing Superhero movie most definitely in my top 5. Its a movie with heart and emotion plus great action.
Good throwback to Cap 1 when he disobeyed orders to go on the rescued mission too after being told you sit out conflict, with Peggy's support.
Zemo as "a Sokovian guy who had a bad day" really, really doesn't jive for me. In the short span between AoU and this took place, some civilian just takes a running jump right into a web of master spy shit? Starts torturing career villains, uncovers and exploits intel that the menacing shadow organization that's been dogging Cap since WWII didn't think to?
Should have made him a part of the Winter Soldier program that broke free or something. That would have made his talents for scheming and espionage make far more sense, his hard-on for Winter Soldier intel much more personal, and the whole "other Winter Soldiers" bit wouldn't have ended with such a wet fart. Plus I just didn't feel the actor had the stage presence to match up with the character's importance.
As is, Crossbones easily out-presenced and out-motivated him in his short time in the movie.
Should have made him a part of the Winter Soldier program that broke free or something. That would have made his talents for scheming and espionage make far more sense, his hard-on for Winter Soldier intel much more personal, and the whole "other Winter Soldiers" bit wouldn't have ended with such a wet fart. Plus I just didn't feel the actor had the stage presence to match up with the character's importance.
As is, Crossbones easily out-presenced and out-motivated him in his short time in the movie.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Not that I don't disagree in how absolutely successful he is with all of his machinations, but it's said in-movie that he's a former intelligence/army officer of Sokovia when Tony gets the info from Friday while travelling to see the imprisoned Avengers.
Not just a civilian.
Um... He wasn't a random civilian. From the MCU wiki which remembers the details far better than me:
"Helmut Zemo is a former Sokovian intelligence officer and commander of EKO Skorpione, an elite Sokovian paramilitary tactical unit."
This wasn't just some random joe who was Sokovian. He knew his shit.
Cabbagehead
Member
Zemo connects back into the theme of this whole movie though. An then some.
He's was just the one that took things into his own hands. Plus I wouldn't call having his whole family be collateral. Due to Superheroes "saving the day", just a really old bad day. Though I will agree him being apart of or in connect to the Winter Soldier program would have been a interesting tissue but that would conflict with his motive.
Also I think him not using the other winter soldiers. Was a double edged sword but i liked that he didn't do the typical villain thing. That would have defeated the purpose of his actions thus far. Plus again he won in the end despite the letter Tony got. I don't think it will be that easy and now Captains Avengers in Wakanda, are literally fugitives to 175 (?) nations.
Sure. Forgot that one although i saw the movie twice.
I think you missed the part in the movie where they explain that Zemo is ex Sokovian special forces I think. I mean he's got some intelligence chops. Not making fun here - it's a pretty dense movie, easy to miss things. I caught things on my second viewing I didn't catch on the first.
Nostremitus
Member
The last time an international over site committee was in charge, they tried to nuke New York City instead of letting them fight the bad guys...
Then, it turned out that most of them were Hydra and were using S.H.I.E.L.D. as a smoke screen and were sending him on missions to further their agenda... Cap's hesitance to answer to another such group is understandable.
But it wasn't just "one bad day" he was already the leader of a Sokovian death squad add that to losing his family to the avengers and probably having the network system in place to decipher the files released by Black Widow I fail to see how his skill set was lacking.
Sony *
Zemo wasn't the only one. From the Sokovia fiasco itself the black lady who played as Miriam. Totally blindsided Tony with her guilt tripping attack about her son. As a representative of a government agency she' more honor bound to not do something illegal to make her pain felt but she still hatched a plan that helped push Tony further into adopting the Sakovia accords.
From the treaty itself T'Challa took actions into his own hands as the head of a government going on a revenge spree flaunting the sovereignty of his allies and their borders and their legal authorities to hunt down Bucky himself.
Cabbagehead
Member
Really like how this movie put up the question. When superheroes save the day who cleans up their mess? and who is to blame for the dead. Once they leave to have a buddy, buddy in a sandwich shop.
Oh man...you've just made me wish that they was a Blonsky/Abomination cameo in the raft now.
It makes sense to keep him there.
Mm. Okay. Definitely should have emphasized that fact through more than just a quick line of debriefing.
Yeah. With the way Slayven hyping up Black Panther, I would love to see how he's fighting something like Abomination.
I always feel that War Machine is one Iron Suit to much. Scratch him
The scene with War Machine going all out on the bus Giant Man has in his hands was really awesome. That's what i go to the cinema for. That sound...
Can't really remember how pronunced the eastern europe accent from Wanda was but in the german dub, it was way to thick and overpronounced. Everybody else was good. Had fears for T'challa but he was close to the original voice.
It's line of quick dialogue uttered by a mechanically altered voice so understandable how it could be missed.
Cipher Peon
Banned
In Agents of SHIELD, it's revealed that Blonksy is kept in a cyro cell in Alaska. Whether the fall of SHIELD affects that at all is... no idea.
Damage Control!
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I actually thought it was Howard's car right at the beginning until they started focusing entirely on the serums. They effectively distracted me from what I'd thought and still surprised me.
boclfon479
Member
So there's one tiny little detail that I have a question about:
When black panther was fighting Bucky the first time (not in costume), there was one moment where it seemed his ring, the one he took from his father, reacted with winter soldier's arm.
Is there any reason for this, or am I thinking too much into it?
When black panther was fighting Bucky the first time (not in costume), there was one moment where it seemed his ring, the one he took from his father, reacted with winter soldier's arm.
Is there any reason for this, or am I thinking too much into it?
Cabbagehead
Member
Of course but still people die in these attacks and some times as a result of their actions. Which this movie puts forth as a huge problem, thus the new law and like I mentioned it puts this scene
https://youtu.be/EYiZeszLosE
Into perspective. Even though it was funny at the time
Except the adult is Spiderman and the kid is Captain America, except the kid is an expert MMA and the adult is a dope.
I thought it was just BP trying to use his claws but then realize he was not in costume.
Maybe someone who watched more than once can chime in.
Yeah I don't know - it was attracted to the arm and T'Challa kind of looked at it like "wha??". Someone said it was vibranium hitting vibranium, but Bucky's arm is not made of vibranium.
Yeah, also what was the red shit that Rumlow was trying to steal? Someone earlier in one of these threads said "is that stuff what I thought it was?" and then proceeded to not say anything.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
I could see where Cap was coming from with the whole oversight thing, especially when the secretary of defence was pretty much Dick Cheney. Still in the wrong though.
Thatoneguy64
Member
Well, frankly Stark just isn't smart enough to mess with Pym tech. Hank Pym runs circles around Stark in that regard.
And even if they were near equal, they have near opposite focuses. Not all science is the same. Pym's expertise is in biochemistry and AI. Stark's an engineer. He's not exactly going to be figuring out how the Pym particle works, let alone mass producing it easily.
I didn't know there was a post post credits scene
apparently it's to do with Spider-Man. Link would be appreciated
Nostremitus
Member
The answer matters to me because it helps determine on which side of the moral quandary you personally lay. Agreeing that you would repeat his actions in his circumstance ultimately means there is a moral obligation greater than following the law. Steve can't help that he's been made into something so powerful. If you were in his circumstance and you knew Bucky was going to be murdered for actions he had no ability to prevent, don't you have a moral responsibility to stop that form happening? Steve admits to this being incredibly dangerous during his fight with Peter but that doesn't really change anything for him personally. Steve knows global mistrust and collateral damage are inevitable if he keeps intervening in world events just because he can. But the fact that he can do those things at all is not something we really see so clearly in the real world. I'm sure the US President for example has a major impact on world events and the position is supposed to be a reflection of who the nation desires to see temporarily wield that right. Steve Rogers, much like the rest of the heroes, don't have the ability to give up that power.
I think being Team Stark is really more Team Rhodey. Rhodes lays out a compelling counter argument, that even though it may lead to situations turning south like it did in this case, abiding by the Accords is ultimately the responsible thing to do. It's agreeing that your power cannot be wielded by your conscience alone and it's more important that you are controlled through some form of representative bureaucracy.
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