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Game Dev CEO of HOUSEMARQUE: we are truly thankful to our publishing partner Sony, who has given us an opportunity to work on something very risky.

Haggard

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Developers =/= games.

Housermaque is a third party developer. Sony doesn't own them.

Returnal is first party game and IP. Sony owns it.

If I go on google...


(Demon Souls is a first party game, BluePoint is a third party developer)


(Resistance is a First party game, Insomniac was a third party developer)


PS: Don't forget that Returnal wasn't developed just by Housemarque, it will have involved Sony VASG and maybe even others.
and now check for the actual definition of the term instead of picking some bloggers as a source.....

You admitted it yourself that the term first party relates to ownership, yet you're still talking about developer
Ownership of the developer. Stop playing dumb....


1st, 2nd and 3rd party definiton is the same across all fields, not only gaming.....
 
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I think his point is Sony doesn't own Housemarque. So there for it falls in that Second/Third party. i thought if you owned the IP regardless of internal/external studio it was considered first party. But I guess it seems that if the studio is internal it makes it first party.

That just means Housemarque is a third party developer

A third party game would be mean Sony doesn't own it

The closest thing we have to a second party game today is something like Pokemon, which is co owned by the first party Nintendo and the Third Party Gamefreak
 
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Gediminas

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It's called 1st party because the IP is owned by Sony and published by Sony. Second party is a new phrase to make it more detailed but it's inaccurate in practice. It's like calling this game a 2nd person game because you have 3rd person mode and 1st person mode inside the house/ship.
actually you are wrong.

first party would be when IP is developed in their own studios.(naughty dog developing uncharted)
second party when their IP developed by other studio outside their own.( from software developing bloodborne, or recturnal by housemarque or sackboy)
third party when you are publishing the game which you don't hold IP rights and is developed by studio outside your own ( these are time exclusive but there are plenty and simple exclusives. f.epl : Team Ninja developing NioH)
 
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Bo_Hazem

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actually you are wrong.

first party would be when IP is developed in their own studios.(naughty dog developing uncharted)
second party when their IP developed by other studio outside their own.( from software developing bloodborne, or recturnal by housemarque or sackboy)
third party when you are publishing the game which you don't hold IP rights and is develop by studio outside your own ( these are time exclusive but there are plenty and simple exclusives. f.epl : Team Ninja developing NioH)

See, there is no such thing as "second party" like there is no such thing as "2nd person view". The game is 1st party, the developer is 3rd party. In that case it's a second party game, but that's inaccurate.
 

Haggard

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The develooper is irrelevent. Sony could completely sack Housemarque, take all the assets and give it to Naughty Dog
And from that point on housemarque prodcuts would be first party, until then they are an independent 3rd party that produce 3rd party products for the platform of their choice, no matter what kind of deal is in the background.
Simple as that.

See, there is no such thing as "second party" like there is no such thing as "2nd person view". The game is 1st party, the developer is 3rd party. In that case it's a second party game, but that's inaccurate.
It´s comissioned work. The IP is owned by the publisher, Sony ,and therefore exclusive as long as they want it to be. But it is and can`t be a first party development as Housemarque is not a Sony studio.....

Returnal is a PS exclusive, but not a first party game.
If Sony took the IP and gave it to Naughty Dog, then the next game that came from that would be first party.
 
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Thirty7ven

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and now check for the actual definition of the term instead of picking some bloggers as a source.....

Oh that's how we are playing this game? Show me where you found the definition of a first party game.
 
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And from that point on housemarque prodcuts would be first party, until then they are an independent 3rd party that produce 3rd party products for the platform of their choice, no matter what kind of deal is in the background.
Simple as that.

Is returnal owned by the first party or the third party
 

Captain Toad

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Weird that the reviews aren't out yet though. Usually when reviews come out on or after release day it's never a good sign. Let's hope it wrong this time.
That's more the theory than what actually happens. Plenty of late embargo for games that review very well, as well as mediocre scores for earlier embargos.
 
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Clear

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See, there is no such thing as "second party" like there is no such thing as "2nd person view". The game is 1st party, the developer is 3rd party. In that case it's a second party game, but that's inaccurate.

Ehhh, he's kinda right.

Second-party is an informal term to specifically indicate a product that was developed externally, but ultimately is a first-party IP.

Its all a bit of a grey area because so much is down to the specifics and terms of the publishing agreement. I mean something like Demon's Souls or Bloodborne are perfect examples of second-party deals. FROM get all the credit, and presumably are adequately rewarded for their work, but Sony gets to walk away with the IP and the code for those specific games for future use.

However FROM aren't disbarred from repurposing their work in part down the line and using it for their benefit, they get to make Dark Souls or whatever "spiritual successor" they like without Sony calling the lawyers in. They just don't get to use the IP directly.
 

Haggard

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Is returnal owned by the first party or the third party
Owned by Sony, developed by Housemarque => 3rd party, or, at best 2nd party, though there is no consensus if that category should actually exist.


Oh that's how we are playing this game? Show me where you found the definition of a first party game.
3seconds with google.


You could also look up the 1st/2nd/3rd party definitions concerning contracts...will bring you a similar classification....
 
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Owned by Sony, developed by Housemarque => 3rd party.



3seconds with google.


You could also look up the 1st/2nd/3rd party definitions concerning contracts...will bring you a similar classification....

noun Computers.​

software created by programmers or publishers independent of the manufacturer of the hardware for which it is intended.

You played yourself.gif
 

Thirty7ven

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Owned by Sony, developed by Housemarque => 3rd party.



3seconds with google.


You could also look up the 1st/2nd/3rd party definitions concerning contracts...will bring you a similar classification....

None of those definitions meet your criteria, did you even read them? Honestly it's getting a bit weird...
 
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Haggard

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None of those definitions meet your criteria, did you even read them? Honestly it's getting a bit weird...
You realise that the same sources also can be used to look up "1st party"? There is such a thing as an "embedded search".
I gave you the definition of 3rd party.......

noun Computers.​

software created by programmers or publishers independent of the manufacturer of the hardware for which it is intended.

You played yourself.gif
So you finally decided that you might just as well go finally completely off-topic?
 
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killatopak

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You realise that the same sources also can be used to look up "1st party"? There is such a thing as an "embedded search".
I gave you the definition of 3rd party.......

So you finally decided that you might just as well go finally completely off-topic?
Dude it was on the very link you posted.

did you even read it yourself?
 

Clover904

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Dammit Housmarque! Ya'll really gonna make me purchase Returnal a mere week before Resident Evil 8.

My poor wallet.

My poor girlfriend... "I'll see you in about a month."
 
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You realise that the same sources also can be used to look up "1st party"? There is such a thing as an "embedded search".
I gave you the definition of 3rd party.......

So you finally decided that you might just as well go finally completely off-topic?

That is the definition you provided

In what world is Housemarque independently developing Returnal?

Congratutions, another you played yourself.gif
 
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Haggard

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That is the definition you provided

In what world is Housemarque independently developing Returnal?

Congratutions, another you played yourself.gif
Housemarque is a from Sony independent deverloper.
Last I checked Sony hadn`t bought them.
The definition

"software created by programmers or publishers independent of the manufacturer of the hardware for which it is intended."

fits perfectly.
 
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MHubert

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If they paid for the game's development it is First party. Nintendo did the same thing with Platinum games for Bayonetta 2/3. Which is why those titles are locked to Nintendo's platform.

Nintendo owns the title of B2.

If Sony owns the rights to the Returnal IP then It is 100% first party.

First Party doesn't mean all internal development. It means games that are publishing and funded by said platform. Before Insomniac's purchase Spiderman was and still considered first party because of License ownership, and Sony published and paid for games development. Same goes with All other titles made by insomniac back in PS2-PS3 days. First party titles.
This is wrong on almost every account.
First party development is indeed defined by being developed internally within the organization.

Is returnal owned by the first party or the third party
These definitions doesn't even exist. You don't say that 'X' IP is owned by first or third party; Sony might have some exclusivity rights for the IP, but no one here actually knows exactly what kind of agreement Housemarque has made with Sony, so this whole point is redundant. Like, when was the last time you heard an official statement adressing something as a 'first party IP'? It's called a 3rd party exclusive:
https://www.ign.com/articles/sony-t...irst-party-studios-and-third-party-exclusives

This isn't an exclusive deal. I think you're confused.
Of course this is an exlusive deal. Sony didn't approach Housemarque with the blueprints for Returnal and said 'please make this game'. What else would you call it?
 
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Thirty7ven

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These definitions doesn't even exist. You don't say that 'X' IP is owned by first or third party; Sony might have some exclusivity rights for the IP, but no one here actually knows exactly what kind of agreement Housemarque has made with Sony, so this whole point is redundant. Like, when was the last time you heard an official statement adressing something as a 'first party IP'?


Of course this is an exlusive deal. What else would you call it?

I see what u doin there. When's the port begging thread?
 
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Housemarque is a from Sony independent deverloper.
Last I checked Sony hadn`t bought them.
The definition

"software created by programmers or publishers independent of the manufacturer of the hardware for which it is intended."

fits perfectly.

So Sony isn't paying the salary of Housemarque to develop returnal

That's what you're saying?
 

killatopak

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Housemarque is a from Sony independent deverloper.
Last I checked Sony hadn`t bought them.
The definition

"software created by programmers or publishers independent of the manufacturer of the hardware for which it is intended."

fits perfectly.
Made with Sony budget.
Made with Sony IP.
 
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This is wrong on almost every account.
First party development is indeed defined by being developed internally within the organization.


These definitions doesn't even exist. You don't say that 'X' IP is owned by first or third party; Sony might have some exclusivity rights for the IP, but no one here actually knows exactly what kind of agreement Housemarque has made with Sony, so this whole point is redundant. Like, when was the last time you heard an official statement adressing something as a 'first party IP'? It's called a 3rd party exclusive:
https://www.ign.com/articles/sony-t...irst-party-studios-and-third-party-exclusives


Of course this is an exlusive deal. What else would you call it?

It's called copyright and trademarks, which you are free to look up
 

nerdface

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Slurp slurp slurp


still buying the game, but have some self respect...sony (or ms or nin) isn’t shit without developers
 
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Haggard

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So Sony isn't paying the salary of Housemarque to develop returnal

That's what you're saying?
If I make a contract with a plumber to fix something I´m not automatically gaining possession of the plumber in the process. I gain possession of his work, but that doesn`t mean I did his work for him....

Jesus, is it so hard to understand that a contract with a company is not the same as ownership of the same..........
 
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If I make a contract with a plumber to fix something I´m not automatically gaining possession of the plumber in the process....

Jesus, is it so hard to understand that a contract with a company is not the same as ownership of the same..........

You are litterally trying to argue that Returnal was independently made outside of the manufactur

Even though the manufacture paid for the salaries, paid for the markerting and owns everything about the game, and most likely, as is the case with most, if not all of their third party contracts, sent their own staff to help with QA and tech support

I mean, are you taking the piss?
 
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Haggard

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Made with Sony budget.
Made with Sony IP.
by an independent 3rd party developer as comissioned work => 3rd party.,

You are litterally trying to argue that Returnal was independently made outside of the manufactur

Even though the manufacture litterally paid for the salaries, paid for the markerting and owns everything about the game, and most likely, as is the case with most, if not all of their third party contracts, send their own develoeprs to help with QA and tech support
It`s like you have no understanding of basic business.....
If I pay for a product to have it manufactured, I create revenue for the contractor, but that does not make ME the contractor nor does it mean that I own him.......

Housemarque is independent until Sony outright buys them. Comissioned work is neither ownership of the contractor nor "in house" development which would be the requirement to get classified as first party.
 
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by an independent 3rd party developer as comissioned work => 3rd party.,


It`s like you have no understanding of the very fundation of business.
If I pay for a product to have it manufactured, I create revenue for the contractor, but that does not make ME the contractor. or means that I own him.......

You are an indiependent worker

Your products were not independently made

Do you get it yet?
 
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Haggard

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You are an indiependent worker

Your products were not independently made

Do you get it yet?
I get that you are either not willing or not capable of actually reading the definition.

"software created by programmers or publishers independent of the manufacturer of the hardware for which it is intended."

Let me rephrase it so you may be able to finally understand it:

"Software made by people who are independent of the manufacturer of the hardware" -----
 
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I get that you are either not willing or not capable of actually reading the definition.

"software created by programmers or publishers independent of the manufacturer of the hardware for which it is intended."

Let me rephrase it so you may be able to finally understand it:

"Software made by people who are independent of the manufacturer of the hardware" -----

No, that's not what statement means

Read it. Carefully

It is software created independently of manufacturers
 

geary

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Hmmm....Iphone apps available on the Apple ecosysten are apple software or X company software? The fact the Apple paid or not the company X to make the app can change the ownership of the software?
 
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Hmmm....Iphone apps available on the Apple ecosysten are apple software or X company software? The fact the Apple paid or not the company X to make the app can change the ownership of the software?

If Apple paid to develop the apps, it's apple software, if not, its X company software
 

Haggard

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No, that's not what statement means

Read it. Carefully

It is software created independently of manufacturers
wrong.
Another example from the PC realm:
"Third party software refers to programs that are developed by companies other than the company that developed the computer's operating system. Therefore, any Macintosh applications that are not developed by Apple are considered third party applications. Likewise, any Windows programs developed by companies other than Microsoft are called third party programs. Since most programs are developed by companies other than Apple and Microsoft, third party applications make up the majority of software programs."

1st/2nd/3rd party classification for games/software depends on the developer. Ownership of the code/IP does not matter.
If Apple paid to develop the apps, it's apple software, if not, its X company software
no.
 
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wrong.
Another example from the PC realm:
"Third party software refers to programs that are developed by companies other than the company that developed the computer's operating system. Therefore, any Macintosh applications that are not developed by Apple are considered third party applications. Likewise, any Windows programs developed by companies other than Microsoft are called third party programs. Since most programs are developed by companies other than Apple and Microsoft, third party applications make up the majority of software programs."

No, you're not getting out of this one

The definition you posted was about third party software, so why would that definition main subject be about the developer
 

Haggard

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No, you're not getting out of this one

The definition you posted was about third party software, so why would that definition main subject be about the developer
because it always was. ownership of the code/ip doesn`t matter for the classification.
Housemarque product.
Housemarque not Sony owned.
=>Third party.
In this case third party with whatever kind of exlusivity deal/comissioned work.

No because Sony owns Returnal
But they don`t own the developer.
 
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