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Changes in PS3 hardware are anything but trivial...

Vaandaviii

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Apr 20, 2005
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MASSIVE changes on GS connectivity, changed "supposed scaler", and 65nm southbridge.

I don't know if the new PS3's will end up with better or worse backwards compatibility than the first models, but what I do know, is that what newer PS3's will be able to do by software, in terms of emulation, older models won't. The GS is now connected both with RSX and the scaler (It is the scaler, isn't it?) with very wide buses, and in the older model, the PS2 hardware is basically isolated from everything else.


Have a look. I've arranged the perspective from existing photographs to make them similar. The result is not polished at all, specially on the edges, but it's useful :lol



American PS3





European PS3






American PS3 -> European PS3

 

Zombie James

Banned
Dec 28, 2005
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I think they changed the cooling system in the Euro PS3s as well, but i haven't seen any comparison shots.
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Jun 8, 2004
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Yeah, as I posted earlier, just looking at the board, that GS chips looks like it's most important thing in the console :lol
*Everything* seems to be connected to it with huge fat buses.
 

MCD

Junior Member
Nov 9, 2006
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I am confused...

should i buy the US version with the PS2/1 hardware or wait for the new emulated version?

all i want is NG Sigma....
 

cjdunn

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Jan 22, 2007
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_leech_ said:
It's saving them money, but they're still selling at a loss at this point.

Correct. Between now and the price cut (Sept.-Oct. is my guess) it's all about bringing cost down to stop the hemorrhaging.
 

Manmademan

Member
Nov 3, 2006
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_leech_ said:
It's saving them money, but they're still selling at a loss at this point.

no one really knows how much sony is or isn't making on the $599 units. Considering that's all they're selling in Europe, AND they've reduced costs by chopping out the EE/GS and going to 65nm as well as blu-ray components getting considerably cheaper, I'd be surprised if they were selling that model for a loss at this point.

I think the 20gig will be introduced around holiday season with the internal modifications and a price drop.
 

Vaandaviii

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Apr 20, 2005
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_leech_ said:
I think they changed the cooling system in the Euro PS3s as well, but i haven't seen any comparison shots.

AFAIK, given the photographs, the only thing that has changed is the fan. Now the blades are bender, bigger, and less in number. 15 for eur, 19 for usa. Very unnoticeable change.
 

DrXym

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Feb 10, 2007
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Looks like they saved quite a bit of circuitry by losing that EE chip. Don't see many other changes - some chips that were between the Cell & RSX look like they have been moved up to the top right corner.
 

Elios83

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Jun 30, 2004
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Just a few infos: the numbers of total components on the board supposedely halved from 4000 to 2000.
Costs associated with Blu Ray are sinking (Blu Ray players will be in the 500-600$ range from 1000$+ in a couple of motnhs).
Sony said it expects to sell PS3s at a profit starting from September.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Feb 23, 2007
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Looks like they could cut out the left side of that motherboard after they removed the GS/ES chip.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Jun 8, 2004
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DrXym said:
Looks like they saved quite a bit of circuitry by losing that EE chip. Don't see many other changes - some chips that were between the Cell & RSX look like they have been moved up to the top right corner.

The big other difference is the size of the scaling chip, or supposed super-companion chip. B3D speculates it may have gone to 65nm.
 

Juice

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Dec 16, 2004
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What a shitter to split the userbase like that this early.

I was considering buying a PS3 now to ensure that I'd be getting solid BC, but now this complicates all that. If it turns out that software BC ever comes to have some advantage over the traditional, early adopters am boned. The potentiality of scaler hardware is also huge.
 

badcrumble

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May 12, 2006
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If this somehow means that late adopters get PSX/PS2 upscaling and early adopters don't, I'm going to be pissed. I just bought a PS3 so I'd have full hardware compatibility, and now you're telling me that I might end up getting the short end of the stick because I won't be able to upscale my PS2 games? ****!!!!
 

Pimpwerx

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Jun 7, 2004
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Hmm, if they dropped that many components, then it must be on the back side of the board. It doesn't look like they were able to shrink the board at all, and the only drastic changes are to the left side of the board. I didn't think the GS would be that big by itself @ 90nm. I can only assume additional logic has been put in place to handle communications with Cell. I can't tell if that's running off FlexI/O, though that would make the most sense, since that's the direct connection to the EIB. It looks like the GS is also handling whatever video output functions Cell used to handle before. They also moved that pair of chips from the middle of the board over to the right side of the smaller SCC(?). Did we ever confirm that it's the SCC besides the die comparisons? Anyway, I wish we had another flowchart of the new board. PEACE.
 

spwolf

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Feb 15, 2007
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badcrumble said:
If this somehow means that late adopters get PSX/PS2 upscaling and early adopters don't, I'm going to be pissed. I just bought a PS3 so I'd have full hardware compatibility, and now you're telling me that I might end up getting the short end of the stick because I won't be able to upscale my PS2 games? ****!!!!

lol...BC will never have 100% compatibility... NEVER. Nothing to be annoyed about.
 

badcrumble

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May 12, 2006
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spwolf said:
lol...BC will never have 100% compatibility... NEVER. Nothing to be annoyed about.
Oh, I'm not worried about compatibility. If everyone else gets that, I won't complain - that's cool with me. If they get to upscale their games to 1080p, though, and I don't, that's not cool.
 

123rl

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Jul 10, 2004
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From the games I've tried emulating on my PAL PS3, I'd gladly swap that for the hardware version in the US/JPN models. The emulation is rubbish!! I've tried plenty of games and there isn't a single one yet that I'd say I was happy with...everything has been a slow, jerky, horrible, mess - and that includes games that got a 3-point rating on Sony's website (ie games that were meant to run almost perfectly)
 

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Mar 10, 2007
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All of this speculation and worry about the older model not being able to scale has no basis atm.


Pimpwerx said:
Did we ever confirm that it's the SCC besides the die comparisons?
No, it's never been confirmed as being the SCC.
 

DrXym

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Feb 10, 2007
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Juice said:
What a shitter to split the userbase like that this early.

I was considering buying a PS3 now to ensure that I'd be getting solid BC, but now this complicates all that. If it turns out that software BC ever comes to have some advantage over the traditional, early adopters am boned. The potentiality of scaler hardware is also huge.

I haven't seen anyone mention any advantage to software BC (yet). Potentially I see it may be easier to support downloadable content, or even higher res rendering, but has it happened.

As for the scaler, I doubt it makes much difference. Europe took the rather sensible step of defining what "HD Ready" meant complete with logo. One requirement is that TVs should support and be able to scale between 720p and 1080i. It really shouldn't make a major difference what they do with their scaler. In fact I wonder why they're even bothering with it given the single whacky scaling mode it allegedly supports. Perhaps it does some other things too.
 

DaCocoBrova

Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
Jun 9, 2004
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^^

Not all TV scalers are created equal. In the end, your TV will play a major role in overall IQ. I don't like that. I want the console to handle that.
 

Diablohead

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Jun 4, 2006
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The images are interesting, since the removal of most of the ps2 hardware the board looks like it could half in size at first glance because of all the green showing.
 

Maxwell House

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Jun 6, 2004
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Wait, so are the cell processers in the European PS3s 90nm or 65nm? Is it just the southbridge that is at 65nm?
 

Ragnarok10

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Dec 6, 2006
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Maxwell House said:
Wait, so are the cell processers in the European PS3s 90nm or 65nm? Is it just the southbridge that is at 65nm?

90, only the SB and it looks like the scaler are @ 65nm.
 

Raistlin

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Jun 17, 2004
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Maxwell House said:
Do you know when the cell is supposed to go to 65nm?

It should be noted that the RSX is a big piece too. Both will need to be down to 65nm before any sort of price drop is likely.
 

Elios83

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Jun 30, 2004
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Maxwell House said:
Do you know when the cell is supposed to go to 65nm?

Cell has been already in mass production at 65nm for a while.
But european launch PS3s were shipped at the end of January so if was impossible to have the 65nm Cell inside. I guess all currently manufactured PS3s have a 65nm Cell.