He did, though. It's in the only authoritative text we have that describes his choices.
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Civil War as a movie makes no sense
- Thread starter Bleepey
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He did, though. It's in the only authoritative text we have that describes his choices.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I should have added a "not so surprised with some" qualifier lol.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
I don't think you understand that these movies need a big third act. The movies would be 100% different if they weren't made from an popcorn entertainment angle.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Did some people skip the other movies and went straight to CW .
It is rather easy to see how Tony and Cap change sides and how they think.
It is rather easy to see how Tony and Cap change sides and how they think.
"The hypothetical movie that would exist if only they listened to me" is not an authoritative source.
Guys, obviously I know all that. I was making fun of Chuck Norris.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
So you're saying if a movie wasn't focused on being an action blockbuster, it would still have the same ending?
WaterAstro
Member
Of course they are blamed. In the eyes of world, they were operating within civilian zones. Their actions resulted in people's deaths.
I don't agree with the UN assessment. This isn't the case of ends justify the means. They are there to save as many people as they possibly can. Cap is never going to think about sacrificing lives for the greater good.
Tony has the perfect set up as a motivation to own up to his faults. He created Ultron. He feels guilty for the deaths caused in Avengers 2. You talk about Iron Man 2, but he doesn't start getting it until Avengers 2.
Captain America stopped a sleeper Hydra agenda from killing millions of people. The entire SHIELD organization was compromised. Do you really think he'll believe another agency that could also be compromised?
His dad got killed. You don't really think logically after that sort of episode. Black Panther is pretty emotional in the comics.
We just saw Batman murder dozens of baddies in BvS. I don't think Batman is any sort of role model either.
Zemo's plan is perfect, and Zemo beat the Avengers. Once Hydra's info got leaked in Cap 2, Zemo cracked Hydra's codes and found the Winter Soldier program. Everything he did was carefully planned. You can see it especially when he courted the room service lady in order to get her to find the body of the psychiatrist, and he did this knowing it would draw Iron Man to Siberia.
The variable of whether Cap would get captured first or not doesn't matter. If Cap got captured, the Avengers fall apart. If he didn't get captured, then he would lure Cap and Iron Man to Siberia into a trap. He had the absolute perfect plan.
Whatever, it's Spiderman. Who really cares if it's a useless cameo.
Lmao holy shit
For real though, Zemo's plan is a bit simpler than the movie made it out to be. It goes as such:
1) Dig through the Hydra files to find something he can use against the Avengers
2) Get the mission report from December 1991
- He tried doing this with the major, but the major refused to help him, complicating his plan. So he instead goes to the source of the information himself, armed with the brainwashing codes
3) Smoke Bucky out of hiding. Hey, the UN is having a big important meeting. Perfect, I'll bomb that and blame in on Bucky. Cue international manhunt
4) Get close to Bucky to get the mission report
5) Go to Russia and get the video evidence
6) Lure Tony and Cap there by revealing the false identity shit
The whole Civil War/Accords thing was conveniently happening alongside Zemo's plan, he had nothing to do with it. You can call that a contrivance but his plan theoretically could have worked even if tensions amongst the Avengers weren't already crazy high from the accords. If Tony and Cap weren't lured to Siberia with him, Zemo could've easily just sent the video to Tony directly. Again, if you think that's contrived that's your prerogative
This is sad...like really sad.
I...am not sure how you got that from what I'm saying.
I'm saying that you might think the movie might be different, but, like, that doesn't actually change the characters as they were revealed to us, and they were revealed to us by the movie that was actually made.
Your argument seems to postulate that the characters exist independently of the movies. They don't. (I mean, they do, but the characters in the comic books are not the same as the characters in the movies. Otherwise there's kind of a huge continuity problem where Steve is doing all this stuff despite being a secret Hydra agent.)
MegaManTrigger
Banned
It was so obvious this OP would be the one to do it. He's even said he was going to do it over at the BvS thread.
I'm surprised I did too. Sheesh I need less GAF on my life.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
The characters choices are defined by there being an explosive third act. I'm not sure how you do not get this.
MHWilliams
Member
I get that you're arguing that, I'm just not sure why it matters even if it is true. The fact that the character's choices are driven by the demands of the medium doesn't make them not the character's choices.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Not saying it's not their choices but their choices don't feel earned because their being used cheaply to get to a certain stage of the film.
Iva Demilcol
Member
The original comic doesn't make sense either so it was kind of expected that the movie would be pretty bad.
Ocarina_117
Banned
This was good. Got a chuckle.
old manatee
Banned
Civil War was a slog for me. It was saddled down with tons of franchise baggage. It honestly reminded me of Spider-Man 3.
Not as bad as a movie whose plot device was a jar of urine.
I can never get a read on you, if you're not a gimmick account, I feel sorry for you
If you are, why
Ocarina_117
Banned
Man this thread devolved into 'but BvS is worse'.
I feel the OP was bait, but ya'll should have known better than to fall for it.
Civil War is a good film, though I personally find it vastly overrated (enjoyed TWS, both GotG movies and the first avengers much much more). Felt like a avengers-lite to me.
Guess I'm in the minority again, on rewatches I mostly end up skipping a lot of CW, but watch BvS all the way through (even the Martha scene).
I feel the OP was bait, but ya'll should have known better than to fall for it.
Civil War is a good film, though I personally find it vastly overrated (enjoyed TWS, both GotG movies and the first avengers much much more). Felt like a avengers-lite to me.
Guess I'm in the minority again, on rewatches I mostly end up skipping a lot of CW, but watch BvS all the way through (even the Martha scene).
arts&crafts
Member
I was actually going to make this thread a while ago but not even for the Africa thing. The UN or whoever runs the government blames the Avengers for collateral damage for the previous movies. THE SKY OPENS UP AND A GIANT MECHANICAL SNAKE 500 STORIES HIGH CLIMBS OUT AND DESTROYS NEW YORK....like the world would have ended a few times if it weren't for the Avengers.
Ay
Don't worry bout it
I believe the constant thought is if the Avengers weren't around, then that never happens. Which is wrong but they don't know that. They just know they have people to blame.
First guardians is way overrated. Haven't seen 2.
WaterAstro
Member
The building had Wakanda officials, so it became a bigger deal as Wakanda pushed for action.
I'm on Cap's side though.
It's great.
None of the marvel movies are.
The film was goddawful tbh. Absolute trash. It doesn't work as a work of cinema and it's riddled with bad storytelling. Zemo only exists to retroactively give some sort of consequence for age of ultron and he LITERALLY tries to kill himself when he's all done forcing plot to happen.
"WOW CAPTAIN AMERICA IM SHOCKED AND HURT THAT YOU DIDNT TELL ME YOUR FRIEND KILLED MY PARENTS WHEN HE WAS BRAINWASHED WHILE WE ARGUED OVER CHOPPED WOOD"
arts&crafts
Member
I am sure there are reasons I just remember when watching it the first time I chuckled at the plot point. I mean, I dont watch The Avengers for the story so its okay.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
A few hours earlier...
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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