Killjoy-NL
Member
Nintendo isn't dead, but can't compete with Playstation as a traditional console.
They needed the handheld demographic as leverage to reach the success it has now.
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CNBC — Can The Sony PlayStation Remain The Top-Selling Gaming Console?
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
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They needed the handheld demographic as leverage to reach the success it has now.
JackMcGunns
Member
So Xbox isn’t dead, but can’t compete with PlayStation as a traditional console. They needed Game Pass and cloud gaming to reach success.
Got it.
Killjoy-NL
Member
There is no succes for GP and cloud gaming. Xbox is dead.
You're a special kind of stupid, huh?
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JackMcGunns
Member
You’re a special kind of asshole, huh?
fallingdove
Member
Nonsense. There is nothing stopping people and or households from purchasing multiple switches the same way they did multiple DS’s or Wiis. Unless you are trying to suggest that the Switch hardware profit margins and attach rates are so high that it somehow exceeds the massive installed bases of the Wii and DS — which again, I would say nonsense.
Nintendo consolidated markets to help recover from the dumpster fire that was the Wii U. The Switch has been very successful but nowhere near as successful as they were with the one-two punch of the Wii + DS.
- Development costs for switch games have risen dramatically, it's not like we are seeing a switch library of handheld-quality games and a separate group of console-quality games. This has definitely eaten into gross margins for 1P/3P financed games.
- Physical games can be shared between multi-device households, where as if you wanted Mario Kart on the go and Mario Kart for the TV, you were buying it twice.
- Switch and Switch Lite might share the same library but you bet your ass Nintendo was hoping that the handheld diehards would have treated the it as a standalone handheld to compliment the switch they had sitting in the dock - why else would they avoid including any sort of TV hookup. (They didn't see console sales skyrocket like they were hoping it would and instead went back to incremental switch upgrades and delaying their next generation launch.)
I’m very curious what Nintendo does with this next generation. In a world of backward compatible digital libraries, are Switch games going to be made available for more capable Switch 2 hardware with better graphics and framerates or are they going to kneecap these games to try and draw distinction with the Switch 2 versions? Nintendo has consolidated the market - it's going to be impossible to go back to console + handheld unless they start releasing something to compete with the PS6.
Killjoy-NL
Member
For stating the obvious?
Oof85
Member
Again, the implication is that if it's not a stationary home console, it simply doesn't count.
Which is a moronic take.
Nintendo entered the videogame market with the Game and Watch, a portable wristband device.
The unsaid statement is that Nintendo doesn't compete against Sony in checkers anymore, now they're playing 4d chess and winning heavily.
The future looks more like a Switch+PC than a PS5 alone, correct?
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Oof85
Member
They've made more money in the Switch generation than they did in the DSWii generation.
Which is crazy considering the DSWII gen saw them make more money as a publisher than any company before them(yes including the PS1-PS2 Sony gens. They near basically never made as much let alone more money than Nintendo back then).
So this gen they were technically really just competing with themselves from thirteen years prior and they won.
They've literally never been stronger as a company than now, when you consider profit and position.
In the NES gen they were the singular power for the most part in the markets they entered, but they made muuch less money.
It's not even up for debate.
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Killjoy-NL
Member
I highly doubt the Switch demographic is interested in PC gaming.
Sure, there will alway be some overlap, but it's more probably that it's going to be PC+PS5.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Eh, PS5 exclusives are fine. They just need more of them.
Kataploom
Gold Member
What about interest? Today if you wanna play all current gen Nintendo games you can do so on switch alone, back then you would have needed DS and Wii, both. Nothing stops you from buying things, except for a reason why. By the same logic nothing stops you from buying two PS5.
Ogbert
Member
The only mistake Nintendo could make is not having backwards compatibility.
Which, for example, has absolutely bummed the PSVR2.
Ogbert
Member
Why would there be more overlap on systems that broadly share the same library?
Nintendo's success has been down to the fact that gamers choose between PC, Playstation and Xbox......and then they pick up a Switch as well.
Oof85
Member
He knows that. We know that.
He also knows that more Sony titles day n date on PC are coming as well.
He just won't say it.
Because PC + Switch is the endgame.
Sorry I didn't realise I was beaten 10 times already
KaiserBecks
Member
Switch ist about to become the most successful console of all time (even without a single price cut in seven years) and people still have the nerve to downplay Nintendo's position.
Give credit where credit is due or choose to look like a clown.
Give credit where credit is due or choose to look like a clown.
Killjoy-NL
Member
The vast majority of gamers buys only 1 system and Nintendo's installbase largely exists of casual gamers and kids.
Nintendo's success with Switch lies in the handheld-demographic (Wii with the housemoms and grannies), not the traditional console-gaming demographic.
Of people pay attention to what Sony, Ryan and Layden have said, is that they are going to reach beyond the PlayStation installbase and get those gamers into the PlayStation eco-system and on PS consoles.
They don't even have to leave the PC platform, they just have to buy a PS5 in addition.
Edit:
People like
Oof85
and
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
can laugh all they want, but we've seen what happened to WiiU.
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Oof85
Member
What are you talking about?
Sony has built its brand off being the home of casual games.
FIFA/Madden/GTA/2K/COD.
Those are the casual titles that sell the most year after year.
Many people just buy those titles above yearly, and that's it. It gets no more casual/basic gamer starter pack than that.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Ofcourse there will be casuals on Playstation.
What you highlighted doesn't state otherwise.
But as I stated in my edit, WiiU showed what happens if Nintendo tries to go the traditional route.
Same as N64 and Gamecube.
Wii was an outlier and Switch is a hybrid, that heavily relies on the Nintendo handheld-demographic.
In no way am I saying Nintendo is dying or can't compete with Playstation, but it's not going to be as a traditional console.
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MisterXDTV
Member
I don't think backwards compatibility helps that much if you have to sell a new console.
It would help for people that DON'T have the current Switch so they can recover the 8 years of software they lost, but it doesn't help that much for upgrading a console.
You buy a new console to get something that isn't available or even possible on the one you already have...
BC is just an extra bonus
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Zathalus
Member
I don't think anything about the WiiU was "traditional".
Killjoy-NL
Member
Traditional as in console-space, not a console/handheld hybrid.
They just went after the casuals from Wii again.
Fact is, without the handheld demographic, Nintendo would be left in the dust again.
We've already seen it.
With a hybrid, they struck gold and that's why they're successful.
It's pretty much what the video in the OP is implying.
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Oof85
Member
WiiU's problem imo is that it wasn't traditional enough.
I'm a fan of Nintendo but I didn't even consider buying a WiiU as it just wasn't attractive to me.
I'm not interested in two screen stationary gaming, and the market felt the same.
We'll never be able to say if the market would've been receptive to a somewhat powerful traditional Nintendo stationary console to follow-up the Wii because we never got it.
We got a weird half-hearted handheld/stationary amalgamation with a spec base that matched the prior gens offering from the other two.
Killjoy-NL
Member
No, but we have sales numbers so far:
Playstation - 102M
Nintendo 64 - 33M
Playstation 2 - 155M
Gamecube - 28M
PS3 - 87M
Wii - 101M
PS4 - 117M
Wii U - 15M
Switch - 139M
Things get muddy after Wii U flopped, as Nintendo killed it early, causing Switch to release mid-gen.
Nintendo doesn't do well against Sony if they compete head-on.
Switch is combining the Nintendo console and handheld installbases, which is the perfect formula for Nintendo.
It also creates a situation where Nintendo doesn't have to compete with Playstation head-on, so both can thrive.
It's basically a win-win situation for both.
SirTerry-T
Member
What does it matter if one chunk of plastic is a "traditional console" and one is a handheld?
If they share the same shelf space in the same store, they are in the same market. Form factor has got fuck all to do with it.
If they share the same shelf space in the same store, they are in the same market. Form factor has got fuck all to do with it.
Oof85
Member
How is it not direct competition if as the poster above you outlined, they're sold in the same spaces?
Nintendo is in the arena with Sony, Microsoft, Ubisoft, Netflix, Disney+, Max, etc.
It's like that old Yamauchi quote: "They're all entertainment products so they're all competing for those disposable income dollars. It's not basic necessities here."
Orbital2060
Member
ozz ex machina
Member
Some very sad people in here hahaha.
Sony, Xbox, Nintendo. They are not your friends. You have no benefit in life by having an allegiance to a brand. It's nauseating behaviour. I've always been neutral and go where the best platform is for me. Was PS1, PS2, then PS3 (I was convinced it was going to destroy 360 because I guess I was a fanboy at this point), was quickly humbled by how bad all the ports were on PS3, how poor the online experience was. Swiftly moved to 360 and wish I had done when it launched. Then I moved to PC as primary platform and have been able to afford all consoles since.
Sony, Xbox, Nintendo. They are not your friends. You have no benefit in life by having an allegiance to a brand. It's nauseating behaviour. I've always been neutral and go where the best platform is for me. Was PS1, PS2, then PS3 (I was convinced it was going to destroy 360 because I guess I was a fanboy at this point), was quickly humbled by how bad all the ports were on PS3, how poor the online experience was. Swiftly moved to 360 and wish I had done when it launched. Then I moved to PC as primary platform and have been able to afford all consoles since.
MisterXDTV
Member
If that's the criterion, then even a porn streaming website is in competition with Playstation
Everything you do in life takes time away from something else....
That doesn't mean everything competes directly with everything else
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Bumblebeetuna
Member
Why do some Sony stans try so hard to downplay Nintendos success, so weird.
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Ogbert
Member
That makes no sense.
You're trying to discard an overwhelming section of the videogame market to prove a counter factual.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
M$ is begging for a death, it feels like
Killjoy-NL
Member
What section am I supoosedly trying to discard?
And nothing about this is counter-factual:
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tkscz
Member
"Usage by household" not "Purchase per household". Its a survey based on whose actually playing the device.
Ogbert
Member
You're trying to claim that the handheld market doesn't really count.
Killjoy-NL
Member
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Ogbert
Member
So when I play Tears of the Kingdom in handheld, I morph into a different type of video gamer?
You're drawing a ring around static console gaming and claiming that is the sole metric of success.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Again, not at all.
Did I say Nintendo is unsuccessful or dying?
No idea how that is your take away from anything that I've said.
dano1
A Sheep
Microsoft is of course the bottom and since Nintendo can’t play all third party games ( at all or well) that only leaves PlayStation for the W
fallingdove
Member
There is definitely interest. Nintendo, overall, still makes the best games of the big 3. I think the argument, however, is that their share contracted with the WiiU and the Switch numbers we are seeing aren't indicative of “Nintendo is bigger and more successful than they have ever been.”
XXL
Member
He didn't say that at all.
Different demographics exist with markets that are similar.
For example, Mobile gamers and console gamers don't have the same outlook on what they desire from a product. Handheld and Consoles are different as well. PC gamers and Console gamer have different needs also.
This doesn't have to be a point of contention, they all (Nintendo, Playstation and Steam) are serving their desired markets well enough.
MasterCornholio
Member
I don't believe anyone is calling Nintendo a failure. However Xboxs performance is questionable.
Kataploom
Gold Member
I meant, interest for a single person to own more than one switch since all first party library is in a single platform instead of two, which is why I say that comparing switch with DS + Wii makes no sense, specially with switch alone makes more money for Nintendo than both of them did
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