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[cosmicblizzard]

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Did Kuwait Airways just scrap an entire flight service to avoid carrying Israeli passengers?

The airline has this week pulled its connection between New York's JFK airport and London Heathrow after U.S. authorities threatened legal action over alleged discrimination.

The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) in September warned the Kuwaiti carrier that it had "unlawfully discriminated" against a passenger using an Israeli passport by refusing to sell him a ticket.

It sent a letter giving the airline 15 days to outline how it would in the future comply with anti-discrimination laws.

Kuwait Airways response, according to the DOT, appears to have been to drop its London-New York route.

"On December 15th, Kuwait Airways informed the U.S. DOT that they will be eliminating service between JFK and London Heathrow," a spokesperson for the DOT told CNN.

Online booking services showed no future flights available from the airline.

The DOT's action followed a complaint from an Israeli citizen, Eldad Gatt, who said he attempted to buy a ticket online through Kuwait Airways in 2013, but could not select Israel as his passport-issuer.

"It is our duty to ensure that the transportation system is free of discrimination. Period," U.S. Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx said in September.

"Any airline that wishes to operate in the U.S. should know that we will not tolerate discrimination of any kind in our skies."

The Department of Transportation said it rejected Kuwait Airways's justification for refusing the transaction.

The airline said it did not sell a ticket to Gatt in compliance with Kuwaiti law, which forbids doing business with Israel or Israelis.

It said it wasn't discriminatory because it sells tickets to anyone regardless of race or nationality, provided they have a passport valid in Kuwait.

Jeffrey Lovitky, a lawyer representing Gatt, said Kuwait Airways' move to cease the New York-London service failed to address the issue.

"It is unfortunate they have done this instead of accepting Mr. Gatt as a passenger," he told CNN. "We would've preferred that Kuwait Airways relinquishes its continuing boycott of Israeli citizens."

Lovitky points out that the flights could resume if a petition filed by the airline in November requesting a Federal Court of Appeals review of the case finds in its favor.

Always wondered how the international laws of the skies work when it comes to stuff like this.

 

[bionic77]

That is real scummy from that airline.

Hope they get slammed.

 

[Magni]

That is real scummy from that airline.

Hope they get slammed.

The airline said it did not sell a ticket to Gatt in compliance with Kuwaiti law, which forbids doing business with Israel or Israelis.

I'd say that's worse. Unless I'm mistaken it's actually quite common in the Muslim world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Israel

 

[adamsappel]

And yet US airlines kick Muslim passengers off airplanes all the time. And after they've wasted time and money getting on the flight, too.

 

[Cookie18]

If this is the law in their home country what are they supposed to do though? I'm pretty sure it'd be worse for them if they couldn't operate out of Kuwait than the US.

 

[Buzzman]

I don't like Israel as a country, but the anti-semitism displayed by the arab/muslim world is horrendous and disgraceful. "b-b-but the evil jews man!!"

 

[industrian]

I'd say that's worse. Unless I'm mistaken it's actually quite common in the Muslim world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Israel

Countries that block Israeli passports often also block anyone from entering their country if they have an Israeli stamp in their passport. It's fun when countries act like children having a temper tantrum.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

I don't like Israel as a country, but the anti-semitism displayed by the arab/muslim world is horrendous and disgraceful. "b-b-but the evil jews man!!"

It's a two way street from my experiences.

 

[danm999]

Countries that block Israeli passports often also block anyone from entering their country if they have an Israeli stamp in their passport. It's fun when countries act like children having a temper tantrum.

Yep this happened to a friend of mine and it can be annoying as shit.

 

[goomba]

Countries that block Israeli passports often also block anyone from entering their country if they have an Israeli stamp in their passport. It's fun when countries act like children having a temper tantrum.

would it still be discrimination if it was an islamic state stamp in their passport?

 

[ElTorro]

I don't like Israel as a country, but the anti-semitism displayed by the arab/muslim world is horrendous and disgraceful. "b-b-but the evil jews man!!"

Yeah. Conspiracy theories about the Jews or Zionism and the resulting anti-Jewish/anti-Israeli bigotry is a very wide-spread problem.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

If this is the law in their home country what are they supposed to do though? I'm pretty sure it'd be worse for them if they couldn't operate out of Kuwait than the US.

Well, it's an airline with international flights. I don't know what the laws entail in that situation, but you would think an international business would keep an international customer base in mind. I don't think anyone is expecting a flight form Kuwait to Israel, but banning an Israeli from a flight from London to New York?

 

[ElTorro]

would it still be discrimination if it was an islamic state stamp in their passport?

Are you suggesting that Israel and the so-called Islamic State are comparable, or am I misreading you?

 

[ZiZ]

how is this any worse than the muslim family who had Visa's and already bought tickets but weren't allowed to board the plane from london to the US?

 

[industrian]

would it still be discrimination if it was an islamic state stamp in their passport?

By "an islamic state" you mean a recognised country with islam as it's main religion:

If someone has stamps from muslim countries in their passports it may lead to some interesting questions by Israeli immigration officials. But to my knowledge there are no set laws blocking someone from entry to Israel under these circumstances.

Or if by "an islamic state" you mean ISIS then I think you should seriously ask yourself if they and Israel are really analogous.

 

[Syriel]

how is this any worse than the muslim family who had Visa's and already bought tickets but weren't allowed to board the plane from london to the US?

If you're referring to the story from two days ago, it is not true that family had visas to enter the US. They were traveling under the visa wavier program and were reportedly denied entry when they checked in for the flight.

When a country says someone is not eligible to enter (aka no valid visa) no airline will allow them to travel because it would then be the airline's responsibility to return the person to the point of origin.

That is a bit different than a commercial airline refusing to transport someone who does have valid travel authorization on the basis of national origin.

 

[ntropy]

how is this any worse than the muslim family who had Visa's and already bought tickets but weren't allowed to board the plane from london to the US?

who said it was worse?

 

[ponpo]

By "an islamic state" you mean a recognised country with islam as it's main religion:

If someone has stamps from muslim countries in their passports it may lead to some interesting questions by Israeli immigration officials. But to my knowledge there are no set laws blocking someone from entry to Israel under these circumstances.

Or if by "an islamic state" you mean ISIS then I think you should seriously ask yourself if they and Israel are really analogous.

As far as I've read it's actually the El Al airline staff that will do most of the questioning. Customs seems to be easier, oddly.

 

[goomba]

By "an islamic state" you mean a recognised country with islam as it's main religion:

If someone has stamps from muslim countries in their passports it may lead to some interesting questions by Israeli immigration officials. But to my knowledge there are no set laws blocking someone from entry to Israel under these circumstances.

Or if by "an islamic state" you mean ISIS then I think you should seriously ask yourself if they and Israel are really analogous.

ISIS changed their name to " The Islamic State". I do think there are parallels to Israel aka "The Jewish State" in that they were both rooted in terrorism.

The militant paramilitary Zionist group Irgun bombed the living screaming hell out of Mandatory Palestine through the 1930s and 40s to such an extent that such ordinarily Jew-friendly personages as Winston Churchill, Hannah Arendt, and Albert Einstein denounced them as terrorists.

http://takimag.com/article/modern_israels_terrorist_roots_jim_goad/print#ixzz3ukabUqJh

If the islamic state does become established and they ever issue passport stamps, I just wonder if they would be an exception to the discrimination issue being discussed here.

 

[ntropy]

ISIS changed their name to " The Islamic State". I do think there are parallels to Israel aka "The Jewish State" in that they were both rooted in terrorism.

the Jewish State is rooted in terrorism? omg lol

 

[ElTorro]

ISIS changed their name to " The Islamic State". I do think there are parallels to Israel aka "The Jewish State" in that they were both rooted in terrorism.

What a stupid thing to say. Firstly, Irgun did not found the Israeli state. Secondly, if the so-called Islamic State converts itself into an almost 70-year-old liberal democracy instead of having inhuman and illiberal theocracy at its core, we might begin to have a rundamentary basis for comparing it to Israel.

 

[industrian]

When a country says someone is not eligible to enter (aka no valid visa) no airline will allow them to travel because it would then be the airline's responsibility to return the person to the point of origin.

For the same reason, airlines will refuse to give you a boarding pass if you go on a one-way ticket without having a suitable visa/right to stay, return flight, or itinerary.

I've seen people (business travellers mainly) have to sign contracts that disclaims any responsibility for the airline to take them back to their point of origin. If you do need to fly without a return ticket/visa/itinerary, then the only thing you can really do is print out a copy of a bank balance showing adequate funds and then hoping for the best.

ISIS changed their name to " The Islamic State". I do think there are parallels to Israel aka "The Jewish State" in that they were both rooted in terrorism.

If the islamic state does become established and they ever issue passport stamps, I just wonder if they would be an exception to the discrimination issue being discussed here.

Did he get banned for this drivel? If so, my thanks go to the moderator who did so.

 

[deathkiller]

While not very common right now, Mossad agents have a long history of killing/kidnapping people on foreign countries so I don't blame them for imposing restrictions on anyone that has been in Israel. I think that the last famous case was this in 2007:
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...-iran-nuclear-scientists-report-says-1.411945

 

[MisterFalcon]

While not very common right now, Mossad agents have a long history of killing/kidnapping people on foreign countries so I don't blame them for imposing restrictions on anyone that has been in Israel. I think that the last famous case was this in 2007:
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...-iran-nuclear-scientists-report-says-1.411945

If banning all 8,3 million Israelis to keep the 1200 Mossad employees out (0,01%) is OK then you should agree with Trump banning all Muslims.

 

[nephilimdj]

This is kinda weird really, I get the discrimination aspect but arnt internationals already under strict laws enforced because of sanctions?
You can go to jail for joking that your 1000 bucks spending money was given to you by a Iranian.

Kuwait airlines justification seems as legit as USA sanction laws.

 

[industrian]

While not very common right now, Mossad agents have a long history of killing/kidnapping people on foreign countries so I don't blame them for imposing restrictions on anyone that has been in Israel. I think that the last famous case was this in 2007:
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...-iran-nuclear-scientists-report-says-1.411945

Any immigration restrictions against Israeli citizens or visitors to Israel are purely done out of political/religious spite against Israel.

Or maybe you just think that these secret agents are stupid enough to travel with Israeli documents. If that was the case then why do they need these fugazi Irish, New Zealand, Australian, and British passports?

 

[Striek]

Political sanctions don't seem evil or scummy to me. This isn't discrimination against a person or peoples, but a nation of dubious history and tangled relations.

Its a political move from the U.S dept as well. Thats the way the world works guys.

 

[chaobreaker]

I'd say that's worse. Unless I'm mistaken it's actually quite common in the Muslim world https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Israel

Holy shit, you can't enter like 90% of the countries in the Middle East if you got a Israeli passport. Some won't let you in if you basically ever formally traveled to Isreal before.

 

[deathkiller]

Any immigration restrictions against Israeli citizens or visitors to Israel are purely done out of political/religious spite against Israel.

Or maybe you just think that these secret agents are stupid enough to travel with Israeli documents. If that was the case then why do they need these fugazi Irish, New Zealand, Australian, and British passports?

Of course Mossad agents use fake passports from other countries themselves but hitman trained by them aren't necessarily Israeli, this wont stop them but might reduce slightly their operational capabilities since they have to hide more things. Is this fair for the immense majority of the Israelis that have nothing to do with this? Of course not, but the explanation is not just "they are racists". At least not more than USA restrictions on Cuba.

 

[ivysaur12]

What a dumb practice, and what a dumb set of laws in the about Israeli passports.

 

[Jumeira]

It's not right to treat all Israelis like this but I can understand a nations sanctions against them due to Israel human rights abuse of the Palestinian citizens. I assume if your an American Jew they'd have no problem boarding them onto the flight.

 

[Ecotic]

Israel is just not a legitimate country in the eyes of the Middle East and North Africa. That's a totally fair position to have, Kuwait Airways will just have to suffer a little from not doing business in parts of America.

 

[ntropy]

Israel is just not a legitimate country in the eyes of the Middle East and North Africa. That's a totally fair position to have, Kuwait Airways will just have to suffer a little from not doing business in parts of America.

this is beyond whether Israel is a legitimate country.

 

[MisterFalcon]

It's not right to treat all Israelis like this but I can understand a nations sanctions against them due to Israel human rights abuse of the Palestinian citizens.

I don't think it's any sympathy for Palestinians that is driving Kuwait here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_expulsion_from_Kuwait

That Arab boycott of Jewing products also predates the state of Israel by 3 years.

 

[Roc]

Did not know about the Israeli stamps being denied entry into other countries. And apparently there are quite a few of them. That is damn silly.

 

[sirap]

And yet US airlines kick Muslim passengers off airplanes all the time. And after they've wasted time and money getting on the flight, too.

Bruh, there's not enough information for us to come to any conclusions.

 

[Ecotic]

this is beyond whether Israel is a legitimate country.

Can you explain a bit?

 

[orochi91]

These seem like the result of sanctions against the State of Israel and Israeli citizens, by the government of Kuwait.

It's reminiscent of US sanctions on Iran, where there are bans on Iranian goods/businesses and passports.

 

[MisterFalcon]

These seem like the result of sanctions against the State of Israel and Israeli citizens, by the government of Kuwait.

It's reminiscent of US sanctions on Iran, where there are bans on Iranian goods/businesses and passports.

All Iranian citizens are banned from the US ? Well, learn something new every day !

Spoiler

http://iran.usembassy.gov/visas/niv-iranians.html

 

[Victarion]

"Any airline that wishes to operate in the U.S. should know that we will not tolerate discrimination of any kind in our skies."

Oh for fuck's sake.

Any immigration restrictions against Israeli citizens or visitors to Israel are purely done out of political/religious spite against Israel.

Or maybe you just think that these secret agents are stupid enough to travel with Israeli documents. If that was the case then why do they need these fugazi Irish, New Zealand, Australian, and British passports?

Also any immigration restrictions against Iranian citizens or visitors to Iran are purely done out of political/religious spite against Iran by US, right?

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/08/house-visa-waiver-program-bill-restrictions

By an overwhelming bipartisan majority, the House of Representatives passed legislation intended to strengthen the visa waiver program in the aftermath of attacks in Paris and San Bernardino, California.

The legislation, which was approved by a vote of 407-19, would prevent any foreign national who has visited Iraq, Iran, Syria or the Sudan in the past five years from entering the US without a visa.

A guy travels to Saudi Arabia and brings his Pakistani born spouse with him to US and carry out a mass shooting. Congress then votes to restrict not Saudis or Pakistanis, but Iranians and anyone who travels to Iran. Branding Iran as a state sponsor of terrorism. Now every Iranian-Europeans with a dual nationality and European tourists and business person who travel to Iran have to obtain a visa to enter US.

Now tell me that this move is anything other than political spite against Iran. Trying to undermine Iranian economy and tourism industry which is booming after the nuclear agreement.

What gives rights to US to brand Iran as a terrorist state but not gives rights to Middle Eastern nations to brand Israel the same?

 

[Henke]

It's not right to treat all Israelis like this but I can understand a nations sanctions against them due to Israel human rights abuse of the Palestinian citizens. I assume if your an American Jew they'd have no problem boarding them onto the flight.

I'm just glad that as a Brittish citizen that my country has zero history of human rights abuses against any middle eastern people this century. I'd feel even more proud if I were an American too.

 

[Monocle]

Did you know that all Israelis consume Dihydrogen Monoxide, a potentially fatal substance implicated in most drowning deaths? These people's bodies are literally weaponized. Watch out, everyone!

I find it disgusting that all prior attempts to outlaw Dihydrogen Monoxide have been met with unbridled mockery by so-called "informed" people.

 

[Jumeira]

I don't think it's any sympathy for Palestinians that is driving Kuwait here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_expulsion_from_Kuwait

That Arab boycott of Jewing products also predates the state of Israel by 3 years.

Thanks for this, very interesting. I was going by contemporary relations which is much better now.

I'm just glad that as a Brittish citizen that my country has zero history of human rights abuses against any middle eastern people this century. I'd feel even more proud if I were an American too.

If we use your standard for abuses then no one has the right to point fingers, true, we all have history, especially us. But that doesn't free nations today for thier continued inhumane treatment of a region and its people. The appaling treatment of paletinians and land grabbing is happening right now, and Israel should rightfully be pressured to stop it.

 

[Slightly Live]

this is beyond whether Israel is a legitimate country.

It is literally about recognising whether Israel is a country or not and the repercussions of that decision.

 

[Walshicus]

the Jewish State is rooted in terrorism? omg lol

Well, to be fair the creation of Israel *was* preceded by a fair amount of Jewish terrorism.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

As a Kuwaiti I say it's stupid and uncalled for. Even people who work in the airline itself think it's stupid. But you have to remember that this airline is owned by the government and they can impose whatever policy they can on it, so it cannot be helped even if the airline disagrees.

 

[Henke]

If we use your standard for abuses then no one has the right to point fingers, true, we all have history, especially us. But that doesn't free nations today for thier continued inhumane treatment of a region and its people. The appaling treatment of paletinians and land grabbing is happening right now, and Israel should rightfully be pressured to stop it.

So if there was a boycott against Europe and America for their treatment of Iraq and Afghanistan (and now Syria) you'd be behind that one just as strongly then? Just making sure. And for what it's worth, having seen footage of the aforementioned I'd sure rather live in the West Bank.

 

[SpoonyBard]

If only Saddam had been allowed to keep Kuwait. So many things would be better

 

[Jumeira]

So if there was a boycott against Europe and America for their treatment of Iraq and Afghanistan (and now Syria) you'd be behind that one just as strongly then? Just making sure. And for what it's worth, having seen footage of the aforementioned I'd sure rather live in the West Bank.

Key point is current engagemwnt. Were not carpet bombing disproportionately, stealing land nor are we fencing off and caging people within those regions. Theres a whole world of difference in our conduct. And of course if we were as brutal we should be held accountable and have those elements within our system brought to justice. Boycott is the last resort of all those fail.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

If only Saddam had been allowed to keep Kuwait. So many things would be better

You do realize a lot of innocent Kuwaitis died during that conflict right ? You shouldn't wish ill on innocent people who had nothing to do with this because of the actions of our stupid government.