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College Football 2017 Offseason: We're Not a Football School Anyway
- Thread starter Monroeski
- Start date
https://twitter.com/patrickdeavours/status/864843386209144832
vid at link
"Coach, how anxious is you and your program looking to be over the NCAA.."
"naaaah"
Coach walks away to the tune of "Eye of the Tiger"
vid at link
"Coach, how anxious is you and your program looking to be over the NCAA.."
"naaaah"
Coach walks away to the tune of "Eye of the Tiger"
perfectchaos007
Member
http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...aylor-football-players-files-title-ix-lawsuit
How the fuck is Baylor still allowed to have a football program!?
How the fuck is Baylor still allowed to have a football program!?
The same way Penn State is
Yeah, I am probably the most conservative poster here now that Enron is gone, but not happy Rutgers is playing Liberty.
Yeah, this is completely awful and every one in that administration deserves to be in jail.
I used to be conservative if that counts.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Caleb Brantley charges dropped
It's that third and fourth point that really convince me.
This list is horrible
Speaking only on the Bama players, Hurts is too low (he's a QB for Alabama, he's almost automatically top 8), and Bo is too high (he's gonna be splitting carries too much to really have a chance at a Heisman). Other head scratchers are JT Barrett being so high, and I'd swap Darnold and Mayfield.
It's that third and fourth point that really convince me.
This list is horrible
Top 17 Heisman Candidates said:
Speaking only on the Bama players, Hurts is too low (he's a QB for Alabama, he's almost automatically top 8), and Bo is too high (he's gonna be splitting carries too much to really have a chance at a Heisman). Other head scratchers are JT Barrett being so high, and I'd swap Darnold and Mayfield.
I'm surprised Hurts is on the list at all.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Right?! He's so bad. Tua missing the cut is a travesty.
Bo shouldn't be on the list. Too likely to split carries and, unfortunately, miss significant time die to injury. Hurts shouldn't be on the list either, but his inclusion doesn't surprise me.
MugiwaraCole
Member
(Do people seriously think Hurts shouldn't be on the list at all? Lol)
Yes? He was carried by Bama's defense last year, and has shown no ability to consistently make mid to long-range passes. It looks like he may have found his touch on the deep ball during spring practice, but until that happens--consistently--in live action, that doesn't mean shit.
Who?
MugiwaraCole
Member
Jesus Christ. Lmfao. They're projecting for the next season. If you had a gun to your head and had to predict the likeliest players to make a run for the Heisman, the reigning SEC OPTY who was a true freshman that plays for Alabama and showed signs of being on track for improvement during the spring would be on that list. Period.
Kid has maybe the best season of any true freshman QB ever and he's completely chopped liver all of a sudden.
Saying he shouldn't be on some sort of Heisman short list is the same as saying he's "chopped liver"? Jesus Christ.
The kid had a fantastic 2016 season, but you can't overlook the serious flaws his game had last year.
MugiwaraCole
Member
I can't remember where I read it, or how far they went back (probably just a decade or two), but his season was seriously better than any true freshman QB not named Terrell Pryor. He's not the best ever for his age, but there are very few at the position that were better than him at 18.
And QB's have a greater chance at making humongous strides their sophomore seasons (following either a TF or redshirt start) than they do of completely hitting a wall. (Feel like the stat breakdown on that was somewhere on sbnation. Meh, can't remember). He's gonna be fine. Can't help feeling if 3 or 4 very bad drops in the title game don't happen and the Tide win, a lot of this hyperbole on how bad he is wouldn't even be happening. It's insane.
No one's overlooking them. But you're overstating them, and ignoring the conditions they happened under. True freshman. On a team that competes for the title every year and had arguably the best defense in the sport's history, and therefore didn't take as many opportunities as they could've to let him develop live on the field since they could ride their strengths to a natty. He's clearly got the talent. Whether or not he puts it's all together remains to be seen, but there aren't 15 players in the country that should be projected to have better odds at the award than he will this season. Nigga could fall flat on his face week 1, but from where we're standing now, that probably isn't the smart bet.
perfectchaos007
Member
Even though we went 5-7, the Texas freshman QB from last season put up much better numbers than Hurts
Players who had a better freshman season:
Sam Bradford
Johnny Manziel
Jamies Winston
In the last 10 years at least.
And that's just off the top of my head.
Just to be clear here, your argument that he's the greatest true freshman QB ever is that somebody wrote that he's at best the second greatest true freshman QB ever?
MugiwaraCole
Member
More total passing yards? Sure (barely, but as he did it playing 3 less games, fair). Other than that, a quick google search (and acknowledgement of the fact Hurts contributes on the ground a ton too) would reveal that's not actually what happened.
I said true freshman. That redshirt helps a ton. Learn to read, man. Sheesh.
Where'd I say he was the best true freshman ever? Being the best =/= having the best season at the position for his age. He kinda went 14-1 and scored a go ahead TD in a national championship game. Holieway actually won the title game, which would arguably make his campaign better.
These things don't happen in a vacuum. Making his play from last season the only factor for why he shouldn't be on a Heisman hopeful list seems silly. If that was the case, that knock one of y'all had against Bo for splitting carries this year (that I agree with) would be thrown out since all we know from last season is he was a stud when he started to get the carries. If you're gonna project like that for him, you should understand why people are hopeful that an 18 year old who showed a ton of talent might prove to be a force in the upcoming season now that he's older, more experienced, and getting the lion's share of the reps instead of having to prove himself from as far back as being fourth on the depth chart.
Who exactly would be y'all's top 15 list of players to watch out for with a shot at getting the award this season?
perfectchaos007
Member
Tua is going to be Alabama's first play-making and game changing QB for sure.
I don't think I'm overstating anything:
His downfield passing stats were bad. His overall completion percentage is propped up by an 80/84 completion percentage for passes behind the line of scrimmage.
MugiwaraCole
Member
I don't think I'm overstating anything:
His downfield passing stats were bad. His overall completion percentage is propped up by an 80/84 completion percentage for passes behind the line of scrimmage.
I know the numbers. Still not getting why the only thing that matters for him is what happened last year, but everyone else gets an appropriate amount of nuance going into a new season. They're odds that are very likely based on how they played last year, the teams they play for (and how successful those squads are expected to be), how much they figure to play a part in their team's success going forward (Bo's knock is here) and how good they look now (spring ball).
That's a list of 4 things you should have going for you. At the very worst he has three (he looks to have improved a ton, he returns as a starter with a bunch of experience, and he plays for the favorite to win it all). What other factors do you think would go into those odds? I'm genuinely asking. Those are the things I'd think about when making a list like this.
:jnc
Okay then, your argument that he had "maybe the best season of any true freshman QB ever" is based on somebody that wrote that he had at best the second greatest season of any true freshman QB ever?
bucknuticus
Member
Ooooo boy looks like we got our new hot takes guy, filling in nicely for JFK during this quiet offseason
Man, you really want Hurts to have the title of "Best True Freshman QB" ever.
bucknuticus
Member
Hurts, worst 2nd year of the best true freshman qb of all time confirmed
MugiwaraCole
Member
They, uhh, didn't write that. As I just pointed out.
I don't. Because he isn't. But he did perform better than most true freshman at the position, and he did have an extremely successful season, even with his flaws. This isn't hard.
I am seriously asking, how would you craft this list and who would be on it? I'm legitimately curious.
bucknuticus
Member
MOTHER FUCKIN TUA
ALL HAIL TUA.
TUA TUA TUA TUA
ALL HAIL TUA.
TUA TUA TUA TUA
perfectchaos007
Member
I'de put that new JuCo transfer who plays QB at Auburn ahead of Hurts
edit: on the heisman candidate list not the freshman QB list
bucknuticus
Member
Also speigt/mcsorley
MugiwaraCole
Member
He should probably be on there somewhere. And definitely ahead of Hurts.
I like laughing at the Gus bus as much as anyone, but a competent QB in his offense? Hard not to project him to have a successful season, even if he spent his spring game lighting up backups and backups backups.
Hurts just wasn't a good QB last year. He didn't progress at all from week 1 to the end of the season. Part of that is on Kiffin, part is on him. But it is what it is. As a QB, a person on offense that is supposed to move the ball downfield, he did not perform well at all. He was more effective as a running threat, clearly.
Without Bama's defense giving him short fields and a ridiculous amount of NOT'S, it would have been a rough season. Put him on a team that's not Bama and tell me he's a good QB. Back Tua the Future indeed.
That said, I expect him to make a jump this year because of another year in the syatem, but based on what he did last year I wouldn't expect a ton. Tua has a legit shot of taking over by the end of the season, IMO.
Eason had 2500 yards passing last year, though his completion percentage wasn't great. Bentley at South Carolina was much more impressive to me than Hurts.
Without Bama's defense giving him short fields and a ridiculous amount of NOT'S, it would have been a rough season. Put him on a team that's not Bama and tell me he's a good QB. Back Tua the Future indeed.
That said, I expect him to make a jump this year because of another year in the syatem, but based on what he did last year I wouldn't expect a ton. Tua has a legit shot of taking over by the end of the season, IMO.
Eason had 2500 yards passing last year, though his completion percentage wasn't great. Bentley at South Carolina was much more impressive to me than Hurts.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Eason also had less YPA, a significantly worse passer rating, and doesn't contribute to the rushing game like Hurts does (this last point isn't a bad thing on Jacob's part, but it seems important to acknowledge Hurts running component).
Bentley had more YPA and a better passer rating (only just), but also wasn't near the force Hurts was on the ground. And while it's hardly either of their faults, neither led their team to within a second of being national champions. How many true freshmen QBs do you think you could've turned to and asked to drive you down the field for a TD in a title game, running or passing? (That's probably where a lot of us are disagreeing; you likely don't value QB's rushing much. Fair, though I strongly disagree, especially as it pertains to college).
The fact remains, looking at his work on the field and what he contributed to his team's success, you'd be hard pressed to name many true freshmen QB's who did better than he did, even with his late slump. I don't want this to be true; it just is. There's a reason most freshmen QB's redshirt. That Hurts was able to show us exactly why that is while still being among the best to play the position is telling.
Maybe I'm just continuing to misread your first sentence in this post, but regardless of whose hot take it technically was, the fact is you responded to criticism of your "maybe the best season of any true freshman QB ever" post by immediately naming another guy (Pryor) that had a better season and then in the next response naming a second guy (Holieway) that likely had a better season. ; )
MugiwaraCole
Member
This would be where nuance is involved.
Statistically and rating wise, Pryor had a better year, but didn't carry his team as far. Holieway actually won the title, taking his team further, but statistically, wasn't even in the same realm as Hurts.
There's an argument that his season was better than both and an argument that he was worse. Depends on what you value.
Hurts would be a heck of a running back, but he's a QB.
You're right that if someone cannot throw the ball that I don't look at them as a good QB. Eason was inaccurate but is anyone going to watch his highlights and say he can't throw as well as Hurts? One would also expect accuracy to make a big improvement going from year 1 to 2, particularly if his OL can protect him even slightly more than last season.
https://youtu.be/6F3ZWQzKlLo
Being a dual threat QB I'd expect some good runs. But really, Hurts was a single threat QB last year, or actually an extra RB on the field.
MugiwaraCole
Member
A lot of the same arguments you're applying to Eason's case for being likely to improve this season work for Hurts too. Inaccurate, but flashed the arm talent that would indicate he could be a decent passer, and did so with inconsistent pass protection (our guards were a revolving door this year). All I'm saying.
The dual-threat thing is just a personal preference, I guess. I value a QB that can run as well as pass. Hurts wasn't the greatest passer ever, but he was still better than true freshmen who get the nod tend to be on the field. Again, that's all I'm saying.
Sorry, a bit late to this, but I have seen Hunter Johnson make simply incredible throws. Is he a playoff qb right now? Hell no. He has an absurdly high ceiling, and with the right support staff can go far. That said, I agree that the team is too highly ranked and that 2017 will be a rebuilding year with a trip to the Peach Bowl.
My dark horse team for a weirdly high end-of-season ranking is App State. I think they could possibly run out their season with an 11 game streak after losing to UGA in week one.
Edit: top of page so I'll throw this out: I think Ohio State ( as much as I hate the program) could end winning it all this season depending on FSU's ability to survive in Death Valley come November..... Not sure if I can handle an entire year of BuckNuts and his avatar if they win......
that is pretty much the expectation for us this year. we have very high (for App) hopes. i wasn't a fan of the FBS move (rather win titles than bumfuck nowhere bowls) but we've been good so far.
I mean, if mre's stats that he posted earlier don't show how Hurts was awful at passing then I don't know what will. He'll likely improve because there's nowhere to go but up, but I'm not sure what his ceiling for improvement will be. He has a strong arm, but the mechanics are what seemed to be lacking. Maybe Daboll (so?) can work with him on that.
Our whole OL last year were basically turnstiles. I'm looking at our OL the same way I look at Hurts, can't be as bad as last year. Most of them are gone and tons of talent coming in, but I don't expect more than 1 or 2 of them to play.
Azwethinkweiz
Member
You may want to check Bentley's stats against the two top 75 defenses he played.
Hey I'm grading the two of them on a curve. Against each other.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Eh. I like his chances. History indicates he's likely to improve dramatically. If he makes a fraction of the jump Lamar did (someone else he outperformed when comparing their true freshman seasons), he'll be fine. FSU will be a good first test for him passing wise; I think he still finds success running, even with Derwin James spying him.
Kinda unfair given one faced far better competition than the other did lol
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