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College Student to Jeb Bush: "Your Brother Created ISIS"
- Thread starter Deadly Cyclone
- Start date
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Fenderputty
Banned
Apparently when you were paying attention enough to write 4 bullet points you failed to notice that Jeb commented on his brother being his foreign affairs advisor.
iSIS hasn't been around that long.
To Far Away Times
Member
Jeb's probably just itching to get us in another oil war.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Fuckouttahere with that weak shit.
Invading Iraq was a disaster, but to ignore the role the current administration's hands off approach with respect to Malaki played in Iraq's destabilization is to deny reality.
nrvalleytime
Member
No - read them all. But embracing the good of your past doesn't mean repeating the errors.
And 5 is very true - ISIS (and many terrorist groups in the past) have come from power vacuums. That's an acknowledged point, and one that has repeated itself with terrorist or militant groups in history. Try discussing the point instead of laughing of it.
Did you not see the video over the weekend when Jeb said that he wouldve back the invasion of Iraq even knowing what the inevitable outcome would be?
Here's a link just in case you missed it:
https://youtu.be/O6LuvK1c10s
Fenderputty
Banned
We pulled out at the request of Iraq IIRC.
nrvalleytime
Member
Apologies - didn't know you were talking just about ISIS. And isn't it expected that you'd listen to what someone who's been there would have to say? I don't support the guy, but he's shown himself a little more progressive domestically than his brother. I'm willing to bet he's not quite that stupid.
ISIS is not some new entity that formed because of Bush. It is simply an amalgamation of a bunch of entities that existed prior.
Iraq's Government did a good job in fucking its own people over so they would form a group to fight against the fucking over. If we want to lay the blame on a particular we should be blaming every single politician who champions Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia is the real enemy
Iraq's Government did a good job in fucking its own people over so they would form a group to fight against the fucking over. If we want to lay the blame on a particular we should be blaming every single politician who champions Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia is the real enemy
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I get where she's going, but I do have a problem with her holding him responsible for what his brother did.
Now, if he doubles down on the, "my brother is my foreign policy guy" stuff, then there's a real issue.
Now, if he doubles down on the, "my brother is my foreign policy guy" stuff, then there's a real issue.
nrvalleytime
Member
I did. But that's probably true of just about any president - he mentioned he'd probably do things differently as well.
Listen - I'm not a fan of the guy. But it's very easy to criticize when hypotheticals are involved.
True. What's funny though is how quickly that change occurred - there was a horrible, horrible perception of our purpose there for years. It was an awful time to be there.
True, but where's the dumb reaction .gif in that?
You have got to be fucking kidding me.
I would not be surprised if Jeb is alone among GOP potential nominees in saying he'd be willing to invade Iraq knowing the outcome today.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
That's pretty dumb of her to mention. What good does this do?
Ganzlinger
Member
She is probably right and I don't have any sympathy for Bush.
I just feel like this isn't a fair debate to throw questions like that and to start pushing him to make a public mistake. She was provoking a shitstorm by the way she was talking. That was a malicious question the way I see it. That's why I'm not a fan of it.
nrvalleytime
Member
It's a loaded question. Agreed. Can't say I'd rather have a dictator in charge either - it's a volatile situation, and the evil you know is sometimes better than the evil you don't.
Yes. Agreed.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
... Because Jeb has been supporting W's decision to invade Iraq and waste a trillion dollars and kill hundreds of thousands of innocents?
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Let me ask again, what good does this do?
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
... That some citizens realize that the Iraq war was the dumbest fucking thing anyone has done in decades and that they disapprove strongly?
... And why are other people arguing with a 9/11 Truther? lol.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
What a blow to Jeb's public image and career, I'm sure this will directly and substantially affect his chances in the presidential campaign going forward
The one thing everyone conveniently forgets about all of this is that Iraq's postwar government is Shia. If we hadn't dismantled iraq's predominantly Sunni military leadership, the new government almost certainly would have.
brickarts295
Member
Man I got lucky I even pass that class with a C. Who ever thought of putting this as a GE requirement is out their goddamn minds.
The third one. The blame for all this shit was that land-grab treaty.
nrvalleytime
Member
Yep. History's far more convoluted than a simple straw-man who's responsible for the world's current evil.
And that's the truth. I won't vote for him, but it'll be interesting to see how he tries to do it.
Hexa
Member
I think the argument goes that if we had just left Saddam in power then everything would be hunkydory. I can't say I disagree entirely tbh. It would probably be better at least. Considering that all his boasting about nuclear weapons was because of Iran, if we had tried to return to being allies with him he probably would have relented to some extent. The only reason we became enemies in the first place was because of the idiot Saudi leadership who should have been told to go fuck themselves.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Jeb's already trying take back his comments on the invasion of Iraq. but it's too late brother, we all know how you really feel.
ISIS is the puppet arm of one side in a Religious Civil War. I cannot fault Bush when Obama, Clinton and every other modern US President is a knowing accomplice to one party in this civil war.
Iraq's government let it's religious divide dictate policy towards the other unworthy Muslims and as a result Saudi Arabia and Iran now fight a proxy war. The United States Government current and past is to blame for actively supporting one arm of Extremist Islam while saying the other side is the sponsor of terrorism while the United States itself has more often than not experienced terrorism from the arm it defends
Iraq's government let it's religious divide dictate policy towards the other unworthy Muslims and as a result Saudi Arabia and Iran now fight a proxy war. The United States Government current and past is to blame for actively supporting one arm of Extremist Islam while saying the other side is the sponsor of terrorism while the United States itself has more often than not experienced terrorism from the arm it defends
nrvalleytime
Member
Saddam also had a large history of ethical and humane violations - he was a truly horrible dictator. It served our interests to remove him, but that doesn't change how we truly despised him as a person, not to mention the leader of a country.
Saudis should always be ignored. It's rare that we agree on anything, and we should have asked what the hell was wrong with us when we did.
That's not the argument that's being used, though. Every time this pops up, it traces back to the decision to dismantle the Iraqi military. You see several posters here referring to it, and its been mentioned in several other threads in the recent past.
RustyNails
Member
No, it was born in one of the more notorious military camps in Iraq as a brainchild of Zarqawi, sometime during 2004 or 2005.
What's the matter, Jeb. No exit strategy?
Hah. What's the story behind this one.
Pretty much. But the disbandment of the Iraqi army definitely had an impact. There are tons of thousands of 30 or 40-something men with combat and leadership experience, almost all Sunni and many of them Wahhabists. The Bush administration should have seen this coming.
College Student
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
I'm going to say he would be right.
Also: that wasn't a fucking question.
"oh no! A smartass thought she was going to totally overwhelm some guy who happens to be related to a former president by posing a statement as a question!"
"hah, just kidding. "
* sends of hot space potato into space *
Carnby
Member
What's the matter, Jeb. No exit strategy?
It's amazing that this is the same man who flawlessly dodged two flying shoes.
It's less about what she said and more about how he responded.
Tevious
Member
He had a press conference that went sour and tried to leave, but the doors were locked. Then he found the way out and commented before leaving, "I was trying to escape."
You're making good points and I actually agree with you. But again she's 19 and she's talking to a nasty politician who comes from a long lineage of terrible rulers. Plus if she hadn't phrased her question that way, she wouldn't be making " headlines ". That's unfortunately the way it works ...
I don't blame her that much.
Hexa
Member
What interests exactly other than what the Saudi's wanted? I don't think it really served our interests at all. Better someone on friendly terms that you hate but keeps things stable and won't dare hurt you than allies that are better people but that are a complete fucking train wreck and are through incompetence breeding enemies that want to do damage to you.
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