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[evil solrac v3.0]

Let's see


Bart
Superboy
Wally West
Kyle Raynor (except they brought him back cause he's awesome, as should superboy and wally come back)


All of flash's kids, who had some good characters built


Dr. Fate (you know the people they keep killing who wear the helmet, even though one of the powers is "invincible")


Aquaman's dignity


who is still alive in DC? (I honestly don't know) like is allen scott, Jay Garrick, lobo?

when did Kyle die? only time I can think of is in Age of Obsidian.

Yeah I thought it would happen given how much Bart's ending in IC mirrored Wally West in CoIE.

It seems DC probably doesn't want anyone but Barry Allen be the Flash now. It's so weird because Barry and Hal Jordan were two symbols of a generational leap in DC, and now they're the holdovers from previous eras.

As someone who can't imagine Clark Kent retiring from Superman, I don't know how much I'm allowed to complain.

Bruce is human though, so retirement is a valid concept for him. Dick can be Batman, Kyle can be the senior GL, Wally the senior Flash, etc. Maybe some of these guys get older and move onto Justice Society and the Titans become Leaguers.

But back to the backroom stuff, DC is immersing its IPs in movies now. We should expect more 'iconic' characters overshadowing legacy characters for the next decade at least.

well he's the last of his kind and seems to age very slowly.

Its funny they tried to choose Hal Jordan as the new "only GL" considering when the movie green lantern came out everyone thought Jon was the GL. LOL. Jon does beat Hal though, so I can understand.

Half the time they don't seem to know what counts as iconic though. Half the people who had heard of green lantern before the movie were surprised that they saw a white guy and not jon stewart in the trailers.

who thought that? maybe you two...

 

[shadyspace]

who thought that? maybe you two...

Them and everyone else under the age of 30

 

[Parallax]

Was there some sort of mandate behind orpheus and onyx' departures? Because with them being dispatched and written out the way they were, it makes me think there's something about black members of the batman family.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Didn't they retcon her into a villain before they killed her?

Don't remember if it was a retcon exactly but yes they made her a villain, then she went back to being good but left Gotham(so disappeared)they finally bring her back in a cool way for 2 or 3 issues then immediately the New 52 takes her out of existence.
And to top it off they deaged her mother to around Nightwings age just to hammer it in.

multiple writers have been asking to use her and editorial says no.

 

[zeroshiki]

Who cares about Cassandra Cain. I want Stephanie Brown back ;_;

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Don't remember if it was a retcon exactly but yes they made her a villain, then she went back to being good but left Gotham(so disappeared)they finally bring her back in a cool way for 2 or 3 issues then immediately the New 52 takes her out of existence.
And to top it off they deaged her mother to around Nightwings age just to hammer it in.

multiple writers have been asking to use her and editorial says no.

I'm glad I never became a Cass fan, it would have been too heartbreaking.

At least Steph is coming back.

Who cares about Cassandra Cain. I want Stephanie Brown back ;_;

Good news!

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=48443

 

[Aylinato]

when did Kyle die? only time I can think of is in Age of Obsidian.



well he's the last of his kind and seems to age very slowly.





who thought that? maybe you two...

I did not, however about 100-150 people I talked to when it was coming out were like "I thought Green Lantern was black"

 

[Dram]

I liked Cassandra Cain, but the backstory about her birth always rubbed me the wrong way. If they bring her back I hope they change it.

 

[zeroshiki]

Good news!

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=48443

But it won't be the same character *pouts*

I hope she somehow gets involved with Red Robin in a non-stupid way.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

But it won't be the same character *pouts*

I hope she somehow gets involved with Red Robin in a non-stupid way.

Tim isn't the same either.

 

[zeroshiki]

Tim isn't the same either.

He's not even Tim Drake!

I hope they do Final Ultimate Infinite Crisis on Multiple Earths in a few years and erase Nu52.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I'm glad I never became a Cass fan, it would have been too heartbreaking.

Worst was even before the reboot when Bruce, Dick, Tim, Damian and Alfred all watch a movie and Bruce says something like "The family is all here"
completely ignoring his adopted daughter.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Them and everyone else under the age of 30

when the movie came out I was under 30 and I grew up with Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner and Kyle Rayner as Green Lantern. Stewart had not been a Green Lantern for many many years (he had actually Joined the Darkstars and was later crippled) then later on in the late 90s early 2000s Kyle gave him the ring.
I don't think JLA/JLU gave him as much exposure as you guys seem to think. besides John is nice but bland. he was actually more interesting when he wasn't moping about Xanshi being destroyed or when he was a Darkstar or even when he got crippled by Grayven.

 

[DominoKid]

Half the time they don't seem to know what counts as iconic though. Half the people who had heard of green lantern before the movie were surprised that they saw a white guy and not jon stewart in the trailers.

I felt cheated as hell that Jon wasnt in the movie.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

But it won't be the same character *pouts*

I hope she somehow gets involved with Red Robin in a non-stupid way.

you realize that this same thing happened to dozens of characters after CoiE right? it's nothing new and this is DC tradition. universe reboot, charcaters get reintroduced/reimagined later on. I see nothing wrong with DC waiting to bring back these characters. at least they are being consistent.

 

[freakk5]

Superboy can't die enough.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Worst was even before the reboot when Bruce, Dick, Tim, Damian and Alfred all watch a movie and Bruce says something like "The family is all here"
completely ignoring his adopted daughter.

I remember that. Nice idea but the art sucked hard.

 

[shadyspace]

when the movie came out I was under 30 and I grew up with Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner and Kyle Rayner as Green Lantern. Stewart had not been a Green Lantern for many many years (he had actually Joined the Darkstars and was later crippled) then later on in the late 90s early 2000s Kyle gave him the ring.
I don't think JLA/JLU gave him as much exposure as you guys seem to think. besides John is nice but bland. he was actually more interesting when he wasn't moping about Xanshi being destroyed or when he was a Darkstar or even when he got crippled by Grayven.

We were talking mainstream consciousness. Ask a 20 year old what GL looks like. JLU has more cache among young adults than fuckin' Ryan Reynolds does. Your entire first paragraph's irrelevancy invalidate's your second.

 

[zeroshiki]

you realize that this same thing happened to dozens of characters after CoiE right? it's nothing new and this is DC tradition. universe reboot, charcaters get reintroduced/reimagined later on. I see nothing wrong with DC waiting to bring back these characters. at least they are being consistent.

It completely alienates the people that enjoyed following those characters in that timeframe all in the name of chasing that mythical expanded audience that doesn't really exist. It worked for me because I saw it as a great way to bail out of the mainline DC universe.

And you speak as if they do it all the time. They did one reboot in the original Crisis and then some minor housekeeping in Zero Hour. After that, they had kept continuity until this new whatever it is rebooted everything.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Does Peter Parker and Mary Jane's unborn daughter count?

Let's not forget Gwen and Osborn kids, the whole gray goblins thing. They are still alive and out there, but I'm sure they have just been forgotten.

One More Day was supposed to magically fix all this, yet then in One Moment in Time its revealed that nothing actually changed, a spell to forget was cast on the world.

 

[MisterHero]

you realize that this same thing happened to dozens of characters after CoiE right? it's nothing new and this is DC tradition. universe reboot, charcaters get reintroduced/reimagined later on. I see nothing wrong with DC waiting to bring back these characters. at least they are being consistent.

DC's Silver Age- created a new universe with modern characters, allowed older characters to live elsewhere. Barry Allen and Hal Jordan are prime examples of new characters.
COIE- removed the multiverse, re-integrated characters over the Earth's entire history. Barry and Hal sacrifice themselves and let their protoges take over. Justice Leagues are formed with less known characters.
Infinite Crisis- restored a (limited?) multiverse, still same Post-Crisis continuity. Hal Jordan has returned and Barry soon after.
Flashpoint- rebooted a limited multiverse and shoehorned everything into a 5 year period. "Iconic" Justice League

Spoiler

Superfriends

is formed, ignoring the 90s-00s progress.

You're generally right, but with every reboot the reimaginings are more restricted. A line-wide reboot in Flashpoint's case is the ultimate expression of killing things out of convenience.

Don't worry though, DC's not the only guilty party. I hear a prominent Marvel continuity has a high chance of getting wiped out.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

We were talking mainstream consciousness. Ask a 20 year old what GL looks like. JLU has more cache among young adults than fuckin' Ryan Reynolds does. Your entire first paragraph's irrelevancy invalidate's your second.

that's your personal opnion and anecdotes. i'm willing to bet that no, John Stewart is not known as "THE" Green Lantern. for god's sake kyle and Hal both made appearances in JLU/JLA and Superman series. Hal had two animated movies and has been featured in video games for at least the last eight years. JLA/JLU was on the air for only three years.

 

[Vyer]

Since we're on the subject of how much we all agree that we hate Geoff Johns, the butchering he did to Kyle Rayner's character should not be forgotten. The true GL/Flash combo is Kyle/Wally goddamit.

Nah. Johns has done some good and bad stuff. His GL ended on a down note and none of his Flash stuff has been very good, though (except for his Rogues).

And most of DC treated Rayner like an idiot before Johns.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

It completely alienates the people that enjoyed following those characters in that timeframe all in the name of chasing that mythical expanded audience that doesn't really exist. It worked for me because I saw it as a great way to bail out of the mainline DC universe.

And you speak as if they do it all the time. They did one reboot in the original Crisis and then some minor housekeeping in Zero Hour. After that, they had kept continuity until this new whatever it is rebooted everything.

mister hero just answered for me but it has happened before.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Nah. Johns has done some good and bad stuff. His GL ended on a down note and none of his Flash stuff has been very good, though (except for his Rogues).

And most of DC treated Rayner like an idiot before Johns.

wait, what Flash are you talking about? when he wrote Wally Flash?

 

[zeroshiki]

And most of DC treated Rayner like an idiot before Johns.

I'll take Dream's word over anybody else in the DC Universe.

 

[MisterHero]

Nah. Johns has done some good and bad stuff. His GL ended on a down note and none of his Flash stuff has been very good, though (except for his Rogues).

And most of DC treated Rayner like an idiot before Johns.

Well Kyle was a kid and everyone hated him because of what happened to Hal. I should admit Hal's demise itself was probably a result of editorial muckery too. There are probably comic book fans that cursed Ron Marz's name every night before GL Rebirth.

Johns's Superman was good because Superman was in his own little world. Johns retconned his origin but didn't have to kill anyone or reboot the universe to do it.

Also, I just learned there was going to be an Emerald Twilight videogame.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

I'll take Dream's word over anybody else in the DC Universe.

and as it turns out everyone had to learn to overcome fear to use the rings again so NYAH!
and also, it took years for Parallax to take over Hal but Kyle fell in like five minutes so...... pretty damn sucky for a GL, just sayin'.

Well Kyle was a kid and everyone hated him because of what happened to Hal. I should admit Hal's demise itself was probably a result of editorial muckery too

not probably, it was. they even admitted in the letters pages of Green Lnatern #50 when Hal became Parallax.

 

[CorvoSol]

Couldn't happen to a better man.

Some days I really don't know who the heroes and who the villains are in Marvel anymore.

She was born. Somebody kidnapped her, faked her death and gave her to Norman Osborn. I swear I am not imagining this.

But doesn't her spirit like, talk to Peter before she's cosmically aborted?

Let's not forget Gwen and Osborn kids, the whole gray goblins thing. They are still alive and out there, but I'm sure they have just been forgotten.

One More Day was supposed to magically fix all this, yet then in One Moment in Time its revealed that nothing actually changed, a spell to forget was cast on the world.

Wait, if nothing at all was changed, does that mean Mary Jane was pregnant still?

 

[shadyspace]

that's your personal opnion and anecdotes. i'm willing to bet that no, John Stewart is not known as "THE" Green Lantern. for god's sake kyle and Hal both made appearances in JLU/JLA and Superman series. Hal had two animated movies and has been featured in video games for at least the last eight years. JLA/JLU was on the air for only three years.

Nobody watches the DC direct to video movies except fanboys. Nobody who plays any games featuring DC heroes care what incarnation of a hero is. JL/JLU penetrated the mainstream for adolescent boys in a way none of your examples even can come close to. Generic white guy versus fleshed out character that still is aired weekly on saturday morning cartoon blocks.

 

[karasu]

I grew up with Hal Jordan, but with how rich and dominant JL/JLU was he still seems out of place to me.Both him and Kyle. I don't care how many shapes that shitty ring can make.

 

[Pau]

All of my beautiful Bats and Robins. ;-;

RIP Babs, Cass, Steph, Timmy, Damian

Spoiler

I guess

.

 

[Vyer]

wait, what Flash are you talking about? when he wrote Wally Flash?

No, I meant most of the post Wally stuff. Sorry.

I'll take Dream's word over anybody else in the DC Universe.

That's, nice and all, but it doesn't change my point. Kyle's biggest claim to fame in his early years was giving us the unfortunate 'dead girlfriend in the refrigerator' meme. If anything he's become more the character that 'surpasses Hal Jordan' after Jordan came back. I've enjoyed seeing Kyle become more than just another Earth GL and something more unique in that universe.

Well Kyle was a kid and everyone hated him because of what happened to Hal. I should admit Hal's demise itself was probably a result of editorial muckery too. There are probably comic book fans that cursed Ron Marz's name every night before GL Rebirth.

Johns's Superman was good because Superman was in his own little world. Johns retconned his origin but didn't have to kill anyone or reboot the universe to do it.

Also, I just learned there was going to be an Emerald Twilight videogame.

Johns and Frank's Superman run was excellent.

I didn't know about the game either. Prob would have been a disaster, but still interesting.

 

[MisterHero]

No, I meant most of the post Wally stuff. Sorry.

That's, nice and all, but it doesn't change my point. Kyle's biggest claim to fame in his early years was giving us the unfortunate 'dead girlfriend in the refrigerator' meme. If anything he's become more the character that 'surpasses Hal Jordan' after Jordan came back. I've enjoyed seeing Kyle become more than just another Earth GL and something more unique in that universe.

Kyle already surpassed most GLs when he briefly became ION and got a badass costume. Hal Jordan surpassed Hal Jordan when he became The Spectre.

To be honest the various retcons hurt both of them.

 

[zeroshiki]

Kyle as the brash inexperienced Lantern trying to find his way was a breath of fresh air. Other than the unfortunate incident with Alex (which I admit is a pretty big "other than"), Kyle's story never ventured into the grimdark shit that was popular at the time. Following him as he got to learn his powers and the responsibility and then seeing him get into the JLA and do crazy shit to save the world like contain a supernova in safe was really fun for me to read.

Alas, it was not meant to be.

 

[PBalfredo]

DC editorial (by that I mean, Geoff Johns) should be hanged for what they've done to the original Young Justice ;_; Tim, Kon and Bart (along with Cassie, Cissie and Secret) made the greatest team ever.

the original yj was either seriously different or completely forgotten (in empress', arrowette, lagoon boy lil lobo/slobo and secrets case) after graduation day. DC is not a kind place for teen heroes

It makes me very glad Secret was happily retired at the end of YJ's run. I would of hated to see her stringed along in Teen Titans just long enough to be butchered in one way or another.

 

[Savitar]

A lot of the changes to DC in the last several years is due to Dan Dido, he's also the guy who cancelled Reboot on ABC and told the writers of Transformers: Beast Machines to not bother researching because continuity wasn't important and confusing to people. Sound familiar?

He's the guy that wanted Dick to die and seems to hate the character.
He's the guy that had Hal Jordan brought back, same with Barry Allen and basically everything regressed to how it use to be.
Cassandra and Stephanie got a raw deal and their roles tossed and put in limbo since they were not the originals.
He was the one that had Bart made the Flash, then killed off and then lied about it all being the plan all along, seriously, he said that.
Numerous creators mostly writers have left DC due to him, even some Marvel people have joked the biggest villain is currently Dan Dido.


There are other instances and basically it all comes down to him in the end. He's known to be a real ass and even said Countdown was 52 done right.

 

[Mindwipe]

Wow, got to page 2 before anyone mentioned Archie Comic's Sonic series, which basically had a line wide catastrophe to remove all characters created by Ken Penders following legal action - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Penders

Could you also cite Watchmen here? Watchmen was originally going to feature the Charlton Comics characters which DC weren't really doing much with at the time. DC corporate had a change of heart, since they'd be unusable afterwards, and Moore changed their identities (Dr Manhattan is obviously Captain Atom, Owlman is Blue Beetle etc etc). I think everyone agrees that the right decision in retrospect.

Transformers Regeneration One seems to have forgotten the existance of the Neo Knights, probably for similar reasons.

Marvelman/Miracleman's very existance is due to legal complications - being originally a route round a licensing issue for Captain Marvel, then having "Marvel" in the title.

 

[Slayven]

J'onn did later on help train him....
but can you show any examples of that happening? I miss Justice league task force.

Couldn't find many scans on him, but did find this. If E-man is clowning you? You need to give up.

Is Black Condor still around? This character has been around since the 40's I think, and killed off quite a few times.

They ahd a new one a few years ago.

Some days I really don't know who the heroes and who the villains are in Marvel anymore.

X-men haven't been about heroes and villains for a while. They been about survival.

 

[Aylinato]

Couldn't find many scans on him, but did find this. If E-man is clowning you? You need to give up.

They ahd a new one a few years ago.

X-men haven't been about heroes and villains for a while. They been about survival.

That hairy dude always got the crap kicked out of him. Elongated man was pretty cool. Did they kill off the red hatted lady?

 

[Slayven]

That hairy dude always got the crap kicked out of him. Elongated man was pretty cool. Did they kill off the red hatted lady?

Crimson Fox, DC' France's national hero. They killed both of them, they were twin sisters that shared the identity. But they made another one.

 

[Aylinato]

Crimson Fox, DC' France's national hero. They killed both of them, they were twin sisters that shared the identity. But they made another one.

 

[Slayven]

They also made another B'wana Beast. DC loves having these U-List characters pop back up to be killed or never heard from again.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Someone was seriously sick of the Beyonder, probably Bob Harras , cause he got nerfed and then his story got wrapped up and shipped off to the storage closet.

Cleary DC did not like Captain Marvel. Didnt help that Mar'Veil got a following later on as well.

 

[Slayven]

Someone was seriously sick of the Beyonder, probably Bob Harras , cause he got nerfed and then his story got wrapped up and shipped off to the storage closet.

Cleary DC did not like Captain Marvel. Didnt help that Mar'Veil got a following later on as well.

 

[captainnapalm]

Gwen Stacy. They just felt she was too perfect and her relationship with Parker was too perfect. Marriage was the only option, and they didn't feel Spider-Man was ready for that, so she got taken out.

Cue the end of the silver age and comics' innocence. I don't think they realised what a big deal that would turn out to be. Though they must have suspected because nothing like that had ever happened in comics.

 

[Aylinato]

They also made another B'wana Beast. DC loves having these U-List characters pop back up to be killed or never heard from again.

I wish elastic man had his own series, he was always an interesting character

 

[OmegaX]

I wish elastic man had his own series, he was always an interesting character

Do you mean Elongated man? Poor Ralph Dibny died at the end of 52 but he was awesome in that comic and he didn't even used his powers, just his detective skills.

 

[geomon]

Just reading this thread is pissing off my inner nerd.

 

[HK-47]

How about Richard Ryder as Nova? Killed off so that talentless hack Jeph Loeb could make a character to act as a surrogate for his dead son.

He's been making us suffer due to the death of his son for years. I can't think of one good thing he has done since it happened