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[Chorazin]

I just cannot imagine sitting at a desk and playing a PC game these days, it's such a solitary thing. I'd much rather sit on my couch beside my lady and play something, where she can watch if she wants and we can talk while I play. Or I'll play something on my DS/iPad/iPhone while we watch TV.

Yes, I understand I could connect a gaming PC to my HDTV and use a controller, but then what's the point of doing that VS just playing on my consoles?

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Problem is, I think most core gamers will just end up quitting and finding a new hobby.

That won't happen. The millions upon millions upon millions of "core" gamers aren't just going to disappear into the ether. If there is a market out there (which there is), they will be catered to some form or another. We "core" gamers are spoiled rotten. Month after month after month there is at least one amazing game catered specifically to us. In previous generations a long time ago there would be a handful of worthwhile games every year, let alone month. Go compare the SNES lineup from 1993 to the Xbox 360 lineup from 2010.

 

[MoFuzz]

I just cannot imagine sitting at a desk and playing a PC game these days, it's such a solitary thing. I'd much rather sit on my couch beside my lady and play something, where she can watch if she wants and we can talk while I play. Or I'll play something on my DS/iPad/iPhone while we watch TV.

Yes, I understand I could connect a gaming PC to my HDTV and use a controller, but then what's the point of doing that VS just playing on my consoles?

Increased visual fidelity, multi-tasking capability and the freedom of an open platform are all pretty significant benefits.

 

[Opiate]

see? this is what i'm talking about. i understand that the sign was posted on the door a long time ago that it was just ok to troll console gamers by the ultimate "RED NAME" himself. yeah, his forum, his rules. fine. but it doesn't mean that you have to do it just because you can. that section that i quoted is condescending as hell. and don't hit me with the "oh if you know what i'm talking about it must be a gimmick" line. usually statements like this require some sort of proof, right?

why do gamers, after years of getting shitted on by society, feel the need to break down our own family? it's gotten annoying and distracting. if this is what GAF is going to be going forward then just say so and ban the console gamers. because no matter how much i spend on PC gaming rig (680 bucks and i'm not done) i'm never going to think it's cool to shit on the rest of the gaming populace.

oh wow. 2 paragraphs? well. that's something, lol.

First, let me state that this is decidedly a two way street. Most of the "hate" from console gamers is less obvious, though: rather than openly state a distaste for PC Gaming, many will just forget PC Gaming simply exists. Games will be listed as PS3/360 when there is also a PC version: gamers will talk about the "superior" version of a game -- and offer detailed analysis of the PS3 version and 360 version, but simply do not include the PC version even when it is obviously the most impressive. Console gamers often tend to have very little idea about what is popular on PC. Many franchises (easy example: Defense of the Ancients) are literally unknown to many console gamers -- even here on GAF -- despite the fact that DotA is significantly more popular than Halo.

My personal pet peeve: when PS3/360 gamers deride the Wii for its old technology and poor graphics, when PC Gamers could say precisely the same thing about the PS3/360. Again, it's as if PS3/360 gamers forget the PC even exists when making such criticisms.

These are all just examples. I can go on, if needed. Regardless, I have another point to make here: PC Gaming is, in many ways, the obvious pinnacle of GAF values in gaming. If you value:

1) Constant Technological advancement and evolution
2) Superior Visual fidelity / graphics
3) Flourishing Independant development and innovation
4) Highly evolved online infrastructure

Then the PC is, by definition, the pinnacle of all these concerns. Now, you don't personally have to care about the above qualities -- I'm saying they tend to be the qualities that GAF, as a "core" gaming community, embraces. It's why the Wii and Kinect are so derided. It's why portables are so disproportionately less popular on GAF than they are in the general populace. It does not mean those people who prefer these other products are wrong, they just have different values than GAF tends to ascribe (do you highly value portability? Ease of use? Then perhaps a DS or Kinect is best for you).

What I listed above are, in short, the values that GAF tends to prefer. If you happen to prefer these values then the PC is by definition a superior platform, and the PS3, 360, Wii, DS, etc. are inferior. If you value other things -- like ease of use, portability, simplicity, or perhaps even comfort -- then the PC may be inferior for you. For instance, Obviously the PC is inferior to the DS if your primary value is portability.

So one last time, for emphasis: I'm not saying those other values are bad or wrong. I'm just saying that they aren't the values that most GAF members -- even console users -- tend to prefer. Given typical GAF values, the PC is the superior platform by virtually any measurement.

 

[iam220]

To those saying the PC has always been a better platform: Have you forgotten the doldrums of about half the 00's? Broken games shipped in an age where patching was NOT an automated process (including classics that deserved better like Vampire: Bloodlines). Online play was messy and decentralized. Games were often poorly optimized. The "indie" scene was reduced to a handful of solid freeware titles and a massive swelling of horrible Gamemaker/MMF games (though the best of those very same creators grew up and are the leaders of the current indie breakthrough). The reason so many "core" gamers turned away from the PC was because it was an era where it often felt like hardware and software manufacturers on that side were uninterested in pleasing consumers. With online play no longer the realm of the PC, it was a lot easier for people to move away from the wreck that the PC industry became. Some amazing games released to be sure, but remember: this was a time when PC games were openly criticized for basically covering only three or four genres repeatedly.

Before Valve came along with Steam (which sucked at first, by the way) and the best of the indie scene figured out how to make great games (some great enough to make a huge mark, i.e. Braid, Minecraft, etc.), it was hard as a gaming enthusiast to imagine exclusively playing PC games.

That's when the pc was at its weakest, no doubt, but still the better platform. If not for any other reason other than it was an open platform. It was more of a pain in the ass compared to now but we had some awesome exclusive games, pc was still king of online play, the graphics gap was HUGE (before the 360 hit) and of course there were mods.

but then what's the point of doing that VS just playing on my consoles?

Uh, Where to begin?

 

[Cheech]

To answer the OP, sure.

My Xbox 360 went from my daily games device to a casual shitbox. I play my Kinect exercise game on it, and play Kinect Sports/etc. with my family. That's it.

However, for actual games, I went back to PC a few months ago. The gulf in quality just got too wide for my taste, and publishers too greedy. The only real game I've played the entire month of January is the $25 copy of Dragon Age Origins I picked up via a Steam sale. In the meantime, two of my friends spent $120+ each this week alone on gaming. LBP2 special edition, DCUO, etc...

Thanks to Steam and other DD sales, I picked up enough games over Christmas to last me months. "Day 1" $60 purchases really lose their luster when I am sitting on a pile of AAA games like The Witcher that I picked up for $5.

Graphical fidelity and smooth framerates made me jump, but the insane DD sales on PC are what completely killed console gaming for me.

 

[djtiesto]

I've gone back to playing a lot on the PC because there's a lot of great games at cheap prices that I missed the first time around that I want to play (mostly indies and classic games), and the consoles have been lacking on the types of games I want to play.

 

[Metalmurphy]

This point in a generation always happens for me, has very little to do with the fact that console makers have added all this extra functionality. The only difference is, as you said, that usually we'd have the specs of the next machine by this point. Except that's irrelevant as it's not exactly like we can play games on tech specs. We'll certainly be waiting longer for the next machines.. but the global financial climate is as much to blame as anything for that. "Family entertainment devices" are a symptom, not the cause.

So yeah... as each gen goes on and PCs get orders of magnitude more powerful than consoles I naturally find myself gravitating back to the PC (as the extra fidelity becomes worth more to me than the overall hassle of PC gaming). That's got nothing to do with "family entertainment devices" though.

My situation is the same. Although this generation I actually went back earlier then usual thanks to a very successful poker game xD

 

[Opiate]

That is all theory though. What's to say that MS would have spent the money developing first party titles if Kinect didn't exist? What's to say the bump in system sales doesn't drive the development of core first party or third party titles that didn't exist before Kinect? You should worry less about where money would have gone if Kinect had not existed (see how ridiculous that sounds) and instead concentrate on playing games. If you can't find enough games to love across 3 platforms you have too much time.

Absolutely, although again, it's a theory supported by evidence and logic: logic, because it makes sense that effort spent on Y is effort that could have been spent on X; evidence, because we can actually see the dearth of "core" properties" in the upcoming year from Microsoft.

A "theory" is something that has evidiencial and/or circumanstantial support, but cannot be proven absolutely. I am not saying I can prove that Microsoft would still be directing more of their attention toward "core" gamers if not for Kinect. I'm saying evidence suggests that they would be. That's not absolute, but you won't go far in life insisting that everything be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt before you draw conclusions.

 

[Cheech]

You need to play a genre that was completely designed around it. Play some crazy sim or strategy game. It's a great experience that isn't possible with a controller.

True, but on the flip side of the coin, I NEED certain games like Dead Space and Dead Rising 2 to work out of the box with a game pad on PC. Most of the newer ones work great, but some don't and it's frustrating. I have my PC hooked up both to a traditional desk/monitor/KB/M setup, and also my home theater projector/megawatt sound system/La Z Boy. I would much rather game on the latter with a controller in hand.

 

[CitizenCope]

I just cannot imagine sitting at a desk and playing a PC game these days, it's such a solitary thing. I'd much rather sit on my couch beside my lady and play something, where she can watch if she wants and we can talk while I play. Or I'll play something on my DS/iPad/iPhone while we watch TV.

Yes, I understand I could connect a gaming PC to my HDTV and use a controller, but then what's the point of doing that VS just playing on my consoles?

Same. I had a breif stint of pc gaming years ago but can never see myself going back.

 

[apana]

If all of the big three manufacturers adopt the Wii concept, and we are rolling with the same dated hardware for 10+ years and focus and assets continues to be thrown at motion controlled mini games and dance games, then yes, PC will eventually be the best and/or only option for most core gamers.

Problem is, I think most core gamers will just end up quitting and finding a new hobby.

Core gamers that fuel the industry aren't from the enthusiast GAF crowd. The industry defines them as males who like violent or "epic" games. They aren't going anywhere.

 

[Chorazin]

Uh, Where to begin?

Ok, please begin. How is playing a PC on an HDTV better than a console on an HDTV. Here's my living room: 42" 1080p HDTV, no coffee table to put a mouse/keyboard on, loveseat to sit on about 8 feet away from the TV. I have an iPad on a small end table to my right.

Go.

 

[CitizenCope]

Ok, please begin. How is playing a PC on an HDTV better than a console on an HD TV. Here's my living room: 42" 1080p HDTV, no coffee table to put a mouse/keyboard on, loveseat to sit on about 8 feet away from the TV. I have an iPad on a small end table to my right.

Go.

Dude! Don't!
You're falling into their trap. They will always be better than us. We must accept this.

 

[ghst]

Ok, please begin. How is playing a PC on an HDTV better than a console on an HDTV.

1) a PC will make use of the "HD" part.

 

[Jtrizzy]

I'm not completely dissatisfied with my consoles, but I'm definitely disappointed with the general image quality and performance of games.
Whenever I play a blurry sub-HD aliased sub 30fps game, I would rather be playing the PC version (if not for some other reasons like friends on console or comfy couch).
It might be shallow to be a graphics whore, but PC got me used to clean IQ and stable performance, so I have higher expectations for my console experiences.

This is how im feeling. I'm building a pc mostly just to play multi plat games, and Dolphin. Wii doesn't look so hot on my new plasma, and I can only imagine how great pc games will look on it. So im pretty much doing it as a graphics whore for games that I already play on console.

 

[see5harp]

Absolutely, although again, it's a theory supported by evidence and logic: logic, because it makes sense that effort spent on Y is effort that could have been spent on X; evidence, because we can actually see the dearth of "core" properties" in the upcoming year from Microsoft.

A "theory" is something that has evidiencial and/or circumanstantial support, but cannot be proven absolutely. I am not saying I can prove that Microsoft would still be directing more of their attention toward "core" gamers if not for Kinect. I'm saying evidence suggests that they would be. That's not absolute, but you won't go far in life insisting that everything be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt before you draw conclusions.

It does make sense logically. I just don't agree with abandoning the 360 because they are targeting families with Kinect. All I am saying is that I'm not in panic mode or getting all salty because Kinect exists. I am not going to bitch about the lack of games when I still haven't played every quality game out there. I am not a slave to new release lists and generally spend more money on XBLA than I do on retail titles on PS3 or 360.

 

[iam220]

Dude! Don't!
You're falling into their trap. They will always be better than us. We must accept this.

hahaha

Chorazin, do you really not know? Or do you just not care about the higher frame rate, aa, af, mod-ability, steam etc etc etc

 

[plagiarize]

Ok, please begin. How is playing a PC on an HDTV better than a console on an HDTV. Here's my living room: 42" 1080p HDTV, no coffee table to put a mouse/keyboard on, loveseat to sit on about 8 feet away from the TV. I have an iPad on a small end table to my right.

Go.

you can play the same game with better graphics (and sound with the right equipment (and better load times (and without having to put the disk in))) using that 360 or PS3 or Wii controller.

 

[SonOfABeep]

1) a PC will make use of the "HD" part.

brilliant trolling

Do people keep two PCs in their house? One for gaming in the living room and one for work/etc elsewhere?

Cause I just can't see keeping an everyday type use PC in the living room hooked up to the TV all the time. Especially with a plasma set that shit burns in for web browsing or balancing the checkbook or whatever.

And Carting around the computer, cables, mouse/kb/etc. from one room to another to play a game kinda sucks.

I'll move my laptop to watch street fighter streams but not just to play a game. I'll stay at the desk. Plus I can't get surround sound because my receiver isn't HDMI (got a good deal on a slightly older onkyo in 2007) and my laptop only outputs HDMI, so I run it through the TV and only get two channels.

I recently bought this
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WMEHYG/?tag=neogaf0e-20

To help with some of the problems I have with PC gaming - it has an analog type stick on it for movement but still allows some keyboard functions and full mouse aiming. I'm eager to try it on fallout new vegas on PC. The keypad mapping in that game was pretty bad but I HATE movement in 3D with a keyboard.

 

[Lasthope106]

brilliant trolling

Do people keep two PCs in their house? One for gaming in the living room and one for work/etc elsewhere?

Cause I just can't see keeping an everyday type use PC in the living room hooked up to the TV all the time. Especially with a plasma set that shit burns in for web browsing or balancing the checkbook or whatever.

And Carting around the computer, cables, mouse/kb/etc. from one room to another to play a game kinda sucks.

I'll move my laptop to watch street fighter streams but not just to play a game. I'll stay at the desk.

I recently bought this
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WMEHYG/?tag=neogaf0e-20

To help with some of the problems I have with PC gaming - it has an analog type stick on it for movement but still allows some keyboard functions and full mouse aiming. I'm eager to try it on fallout new vegas on PC. The keypad mapping in that game was pretty bad but I HATE movement in 3D with a keyboard.

Stating the truth is not trolling.

 

[Minsc]

Ok, please begin. How is playing a PC on an HDTV better than a console on an HDTV. Here's my living room: 42" 1080p HDTV, no coffee table to put a mouse/keyboard on, loveseat to sit on about 8 feet away from the TV. I have an iPad on a small end table to my right.

Go.

You can use the iPad in combination with the PC to make it even more awesome (control it completely / launch games / movies on the HDTV)! Your iPad does nothing with the consoles. I win.

 

[SonOfABeep]

Stating the truth is not trolling.

Stating that console games do not run in HD as a rule is not the truth. The minority of titles run at resolutions below 720p. His statement was inaccurate and made purely to poke at the lesser console players.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Stating the truth is not trolling.

Depends on the line you draw for "HD." Is it 1920x1080? Then modern consoles barely do HD. Is it 1680x1080? Then modern consoles are sort of HD. Is it 1440x900? Then sure, modern consoles are "HD."

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

No one has actually abandoned me in the console space. I've been provided with amazing games every month and that hasn't stopped.

I only play PC/Mac games for Valve and Blizzard, so that's not a huge monopoly or anything.

I like playing games like WoW on PC, but there are so many things I'd rather be playing on console.

One thing I hate about PC gaming is constantly fiddling with my video settings to maximize both visuals and frame rate, and that is partly why I love console gaming. No fiddling with settings, no dealing with incompatibility.

You can just play with lower settings if you want and still get better-than-console graphics, messing around with nHancer/whatever isn't mandatory or anything.

 

[SonOfABeep]

Depends on the line you draw for "HD." Is it 1920x1080? Then modern consoles barely do HD. Is it 1680x1080? Then modern consoles are sort of HD. Is it 1440x900? Then sure, modern consoles are "HD."

I think 720p is a fair standard for the time that these systems were released. (2005/2006)

1080p tvs were getting cheaper then, certainly, but they weren't the norm.

 

[Chorazin]

hahaha

Chorazin, do you really not know? Or do you just not care about the higher frame rate, aa, af, mod-ability, steam etc etc etc

you can play the same game with better graphics (and sound with the right equipment (and better load times (and without having to put the disk in))) using that 360 or PS3 or Wii controller.

I'm just not buying the sale guys. I'm not really sure how much better a PC game vs a Console game is going to look with that setup. A good game on either will look good, but $600 more for a computer good? I don't think I'm graphic whore enough for that. As for sound, I've never had a problem with how console games sound on my home theater.

Load times are pretty good with the game installed to the PS3 or 360's HDD. It's a rare occasion where load times would bother me.

As for Steam and mods: Amazon gets the console games on release date, when I get home from work the game is right there, and new games from Amazon are often a few dollars off plus more credit from Amazon, making them nearly on par with Steam price. Plus, I often sell games to other GAFers, friends, or Amazon, which makes new games cheaper. I can't really do that on Steam. Mods are very cool, and I wish consoles could do that, but in reality I'm not sure A: I'd actually go out and find them and B: I'd go back and play a game after I beat it just for mods.

Steam sales are awesome, but every Steam sale thread I see is just a bunch of people "saving" money on games they might never play, and say "More for my backlog!" with some odd collector's glee. I'd be the same way, hell, I rarely have time to finish the games I buy full price.

I just don't think I'm a PC gamer guy.

 

[Dan Yo]

Core gamers that fuel the industry aren't from the enthusiast GAF crowd. The industry defines them as males who like violent or "epic" games. They aren't going anywhere.

MS isn't funding anything new except for Halo and Gears these days. What is already proven. All of the rest of their focus is on Kinect games.

I'm actually one of those males who enjoys violent, epic games. If the industry boils down to Halo, Gears, and CoD, and all I have to work with is 1 or 2 big releases like that per year, then yes, I will become bored and move on. Or at least game a heck of a lot less than I am used to.

 

[SonOfABeep]

Some games have bigger differences than others.

Fallout New Vegas for example is a world of difference on PC due to performance, textures, mods, etc.

Now something like Bioshock you're probably not gonna see a huge difference other than framerate/resolution/Anti Aliasing and stuff.

And then there's ports like Mass Effect where they've been overhauled and made so much better on PC that I wouldn't go back to the console version ever. Or Left 4 Dead 2 where the PC content is free while MS makes them charge for it on console. Or Dragon Age's control differences on Console.

I really don't think it's a PC always better than Console thing. Some are better on one, some on others. Just have to decide which features/system you want.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I'm just not buying the sale guys. I'm not really sure how much better a PC game vs a Console game is going to look with that setup. A good game on either will look good, but $600 more for a computer good? I don't think I'm graphic whore enough for that. As for sound, I've never had a problem with how console games sound on my home theater.

I just listed a $366 computer which will be a great computer and will look better or run better or both than consoles at games. And that was with 15 minutes of checking and not being at all aware of what the part sweet spots are right now.

Steam sales are awesome, but every Steam sale thread I see is just a bunch of people "saving" money on games they might never play, and say "More for my backlog!" with some odd collector's glee. I'd be the same way, hell, I rarely have time to finish the games I buy full price.

You can afford to do that when you get games at 90% off.

Do people keep two PCs in their house? One for gaming in the living room and one for work/etc elsewhere?

I have maybe four or five working laptops and a desktop.

 

[tok]

Ok, please begin. How is playing a PC on an HDTV better than a console on an HDTV. Here's my living room: 42" 1080p HDTV, no coffee table to put a mouse/keyboard on, loveseat to sit on about 8 feet away from the TV. I have an iPad on a small end table to my right.

Go.

Seems you might be the very definition of the thread title... A casual gamer with a run of the mill casual gamer setup. You don't notice lacking console textures or inferior controls for FPS's, and the main thing in the way of better gaming is an issue with your decor.

 

[.la1n]

I never left PC gaming. I also agree that I think it a lot to do with Blizzard / Valve as to why their might be a sudden migration. I really really doubt it's because of Kinect / Move or whatever else.

This thread is silly.

 

[Chorazin]

Seems you might be the very definition of the thread title... A casual gamer with a run of the mill casual gamer setup. You don't notice lacking console textures or inferior controls for FPS's, and the main thing in the way of better gaming is an issue with your decor.

HAHAHAHA, seriously? I listed my living room setup not to talk about the decor, but I get a real reason why adding an HDTV to that setup is going to make it a markedly better experience than just playing the consoles I have. EDIT: I already have a nettop PC attached to my HDTV for Hulu/Xfinity/downloaded movies, so I'd be replacing a non-gaming PC, for full disclosure.

If "casual" gamer now means "console" gamer to a PC gamer no matter what games they play, that's a whole new level to the PC Master Race stereotype.

 

[SonOfABeep]

I never left PC gaming. I also agree that I think it a lot to do with Blizzard / Valve as to why their might be a sudden migration. I really really doubt it's because of Kinect / Move or whatever else.

This thread is silly.

Agree. There's loads of great PC content out there to draw people to the platform. Some kind of mass "kinect exodus" isn't an excuse the platform needs to explain any success it has.

 

[Owzers]

I don't feel left behind though, 2011 is going to have a tonnnnn of games and i don't feel the need to spend $800 + monitor to build a pc right NOW when i have a ps3/360/wii/psp/ds/old laptop rocking an ATI Mobility X1400 for casual gaming along with a 150 game backlog and very few pc exclusives that i'm missing out on.

I'm going to ride this generation out, even though the sub hd/bad framerate thing is annoying. If i bail out of anything next gen it will be Microsoft consoles, presuming Sony doesn't charge for online play.

 

[JoeBoy101]

brilliant trolling

Do people keep two PCs in their house? One for gaming in the living room and one for work/etc elsewhere?

Cause I just can't see keeping an everyday type use PC in the living room hooked up to the TV all the time. Especially with a plasma set that shit burns in for web browsing or balancing the checkbook or whatever.

And Carting around the computer, cables, mouse/kb/etc. from one room to another to play a game kinda sucks.

I'll move my laptop to watch street fighter streams but not just to play a game. I'll stay at the desk. Plus I can't get surround sound because my receiver isn't HDMI (got a good deal on a slightly older onkyo in 2007) and my laptop only outputs HDMI, so I run it through the TV and only get two channels.

I recently bought this
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000WMEHYG/?tag=neogaf0e-20

To help with some of the problems I have with PC gaming - it has an analog type stick on it for movement but still allows some keyboard functions and full mouse aiming. I'm eager to try it on fallout new vegas on PC. The keypad mapping in that game was pretty bad but I HATE movement in 3D with a keyboard.

Jesus, dude. This is so fallacious I don't know where to begin. You say you have no room for a mouse/kb setup for playing games on your PC there? Fine.

Xbox 360 Wireless Controller for the PC /w Receiver

Now you have a 360 pad for the gaming. But don't want to have the PC standing up next to your entertainment setup? Fine.

Apevia HTPC Media Case

Now you have a PC that looks right in place on your entertainment stand next to your cable box and Blu-Ray player. Don't have a Blu-Ray player yet? Fine.

Lite On 4X BD-ROM Drive - $49.99

Now you don't even need to get a PS3 or a dedicated Blu-Ray player if you don't want to. Afraid you'll lose some functionality not having a KB/M around to post silly posts on GAF? Fine.

Phantom Black Mini Wireless Keyboard/Mouse

Mini wireless keyboard that floats over lapboard with wireless mouse.

So, exactly what is the substantive issue preventing your enjoying comfy-couch PC gaming other than bias and possibly cost. All told with a decent HTPC and all these ingredients, $800. And that's getting far more functionality than a console with far greater graphics.

 

[poppabk]

Do people keep two PCs in their house? One for gaming in the living room and one for work/etc elsewhere?

No I don't do that. I have a PC hooked up to my TV in the living room for DVR, Hulu, Netflix, Boxee, bluray and other media duties which happens to also run games at a reasonable level, in 3D if I so wish. I also have a laptop that is used for work and web browsing etc that can also run games.

 

[Unregistered007]

Keep dreaming, 1.9 million xbox360 snagged in Dec 2010 /thread close.

No one is going back to expensive PC gaming.

 

[Drkirby]

If PC games were on disc, instead of digital, I would probably be a PC gamer.

Since (primarily) only console games come on disc, I am a console gamer.

PC games in my eyes have never had resell value, even before the advent of DRM. So having somthing like Steam where I can't sell my games back is no problem for me, in fact, I somewhat like how I am stuck with a game forever.

 

[SonOfABeep]

Jesus, dude. This is so fallacious I don't know where to begin. You say you have no room for a mouse/kb setup for playing games on your PC there? Fine.


Now you have a 360 pad for the gaming. But don't want to have the PC standing up next to your entertainment setup? Fine.


Afraid you'll lose some functionality not having a KB/M around to post silly posts on GAF? Fine.

Mini wireless keyboard that floats over lapboard with wireless mouse.

That still involves buying an entirely new PC setup, which is not on the books for this year at least.

Guess i'll just have to slum it with my console sometimes, pc sometimes setup.

 

[iam220]

I just don't think I'm a PC gamer guy.

Sounds like you made a significant dollar investment into consoles already. So $600 on top of that might not be worth it for you especially if you only plan to play multi-platform games on it. Your refusal to use a keyboard and mouse pretty much eliminates multi-player fps and rts games which is a significant chunk of the PC game market. You'd still see benefits to switching to the PC platform even beyond the ones mentioned here, though given your current situation (as you describe it), you wouldn't benefit as much from a pc as some of the more hardcore gamers here on gaf.

 

[JoeBoy101]

That still involves buying an entirely new PC setup, which is not on the books for this year at least.

Guess i'll just have to slum it with my console sometimes, pc sometimes setup.

And cost is a fair consideration. I'm not begrudging that, but just saying that if you can do a decent console setup (TV size, surround sound, etc.), the only thing stopping you from doing PC is some extra money. May seem like too much now, but given we're only halfway into this console cycle, give it another year or so, and those comparison shots between game versions are going to get even more brutal.

 

[iam220]

No one is going back to expensive PC gaming.

So how many xboxes did you buy this generation?

 

[Chorazin]

Sounds like you made a significant dollar investment into consoles already. So $600 on top of that might not be worth it for you especially if you only plan to play multi-platform games on it. Your refusal to use a keyboard and mouse pretty much eliminates multi-player fps and rts games which is a significant chunk of the PC game market. You'd still see benefits to switching to the PC platform even beyond the ones mentioned here, though given your current situation (as you describe it), you wouldn't benefit as much from a pc as some of the more hardcore gamers here on gaf.

Thank you for the rational reply. And it's not so much a refusal to use a mouse and keyboard, I just don't see how one can comfortably use it on your lap, unless you're using a trackpad/keyboard combo, and those generally suck.

 

[speedpop]

I have a laptop.

 

[MoFuzz]

I'm just not buying the sale guys. I'm not really sure how much better a PC game vs a Console game is going to look with that setup. A good game on either will look good, but $600 more for a computer good? I don't think I'm graphic whore enough for that. As for sound, I've never had a problem with how console games sound on my home theater.

Load times are pretty good with the game installed to the PS3 or 360's HDD. It's a rare occasion where load times would bot

Mods are very cool, and I wish consoles could do that, but in reality I'm not sure A: I'd actually go out and find them and B: I'd go back and play a game after I beat it just for mods.

Steam sales are awesome, but every Steam sale thread I see is just a bunch of people "saving" money on games they might never play, and say "More for my backlog!" with some odd collector's glee. I'd be the same way, hell, I rarely have time to finish the games I buy full price.

I just don't think I'm a PC gamer guy.

So you ask for us to point out how a PC can look better than a console running on the same display, and then you cop out with "consoles look good enough for me anyways."

Nice.

The mere capability to play games at a higher resolution makes the visuals objectively better than consoles. Also, the inability or unwillingness to create a solution for a HDTV/home theater setup is not the fault of the platform. The tools are there for you to make the setup that works for you, whether it be a little set top box that takes up as much space a console, a laptop connected via HDMI or a massive tower case than englufs your entertainment shelf, it's up to you. That's one of the strengths of an open format. PC gaming is not just a "$600 desktop". It's whatever you want to make it. Anyways, even if we were go by that example, if you have a semi recent tower from the past few years, all that's needed for it to game would be a video card which can range from $50 to $300 even at the $100 range, the GPU power will handily beat what a 360 or PS3 can output.

From your comment on mods, you make it sound like something than can only be done after a game is completed the first time through just to fiddle with. In reality, the mods and modding community come up with fixes, patches, tweaks, expansions, maps, visual overhauls, and all sorts of shit. Sometimes, just sometimes, when the planets align, they can even forge a new game entirely out of it which ends up being an entirely separate entity. See Valve's games or the aforementioned DotA as an example.

Honestly, people were whining earlier about why we have to have this kind of discussion regularly on here and why it is that the PC crowd gets so riled up and comes across as condescending; It's really pure fucking ignorance from people who haven't the first clue as to the strengths of the platform that gets it going. If a small fraction of people fact checked their own bullshit, maybe this wouldn't have to be rehashed so constantly.

 

[speedpop]

Honestly, people were whining earlier about why we have to have this kind of discussion regularly on here and why it is that the PC crowd gets so riled up and comes across as condescending; It's really pure fucking ignorance from people who haven't the first clue as to the strengths of the platform that gets it going. If a small fraction of people fact checked their own bullshit, maybe this wouldn't have to be rehashed so constantly.

Pretty much it. It's more a battle against the ignorance that PC-centric gamers crusade against; we do it because not only do we feel justified in our cause, but it's fun to launch boulders at headless chooks.

Another thing to mention is throughout the years that I have been here on GAF, we've gone through muted PC gaming discussion, to the PC gaming is dead, to some sense of renaissance of PC gaming (when the heart of that matter has always been pumping blood regardless - it's just that true to the essence of PC gaming, it's always touted innovation)

 

[iam220]

I also understand that not everybody thinks throwing back a few beers and tweaking a machine for hours is remotely what they'd want to spend their time doing. For most people who would ever touch a game, the PC demanded far too much of them outside of playing actual games. And it was so bad in that period that even the die-hard shooter fans abandoned the platform during that time, because they were there for the games, not the bullshit. I sincerely think that if things were different, this CoD boom never would have happened on consoles. But anyone who would have been a PC gamer growing up just grew up with the Xbox instead.

I would not mix beers with tweaking.

Come to think of it, it was much worse in the pre-00's esp since the hardware was still very expensive and 56k modem made patching such a pain in the ass ..

 

[iam220]

And it's not so much a refusal to use a mouse and keyboard, I just don't see how one can comfortably use it on your lap, unless you're using a trackpad/keyboard combo, and those generally suck.

Yeah, I haven't really found a way to use it comfortably on my couch, same with a steering wheel and my flight sticks. I prefer gaming on a desktop anyway for most games. (and I work all day on a desktop as well, heh)

I did play amnesia with a kb/m from a couch, put the keyboard on my lap and my mouse on the couch cushion to my right. It wasn't too bad and certainly worked for amnesia, but if I was playing a fast paced fps/rts it would not suffice at all.

 

[Chorazin]

So you ask for us to point out how a PC can look better than a console running on the same display, and then you cop out with "consoles look good enough for me anyways."

Nice.

The mere capability to play games at a higher resolution makes the visuals objectively better than consoles. Also, the inability or unwillingness to create a solution for a HDTV/home theater setup is not the fault of the platform. The tools are there for you to make the setup that works for you, whether it be a little set top box that takes up as much space a console, a laptop connected via HDMI or a massive tower case than englufs your entertainment shelf, it's up to you. That's one of the strengths of an open format. PC gaming is not just a "$600 desktop". It's whatever you want to make it. Anyways, even if we were go by that example, if you have a semi recent tower from the past few years, all that's needed for it to game would be a video card which can range from $50 to $300 even at the $100 range, the GPU power will handily beat what a 360 or PS3 can output.

I'm simply saying that, graphics wise, I'm just not sure that I'm going to see such a massive increase in graphics for my home theater setup for the price, even if it's $300. Maybe if I was sitting at a desk two feet from a monitor, I'd really see the improvement. That's a lot of money for me over my 360 and PS3. Maybe it's not for you, but it is for me just for a graphics improvment.

From your comment on mods, you make it sound like something than can only be done after a game is completed the first time through just to fiddle with. In reality, the mods and modding community come up with fixes, patches, tweaks, expansions, maps, visual overhauls, and all sorts of shit. Sometimes, just sometimes, when the planets align, they can even forge a new game entirely out of it which ends up being an entirely separate entity. See Valve's games or the aforementioned DotA as an example.

I understand all that, perhaps I understated my opinion of mods; mods are cool.

Honestly, people were whining earlier about why we have to have this kind of discussion regularly on here and why it is that the PC crowd gets so riled up and comes across as condescending; It's really pure fucking ignorance from people who haven't the first clue as to the strengths of the platform that gets it going. If a small fraction of people fact checked their own bullshit, maybe this wouldn't have to be rehashed so constantly.

And the reason why people, like myself, are ignorant about the platform is because when they post in threads like this with an honest desire to know why they should spend money on a PC, is they get treated like crap by at least one person that's probably actually enthusiastic about spreading the word of PC and does it in a bad way, and we get defensive in return.

I think this thread helped me to understand that I'm just not a PC guy, so I'll just bow out from here.