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[Doctor Hades]

If the console versions of Dragon's Dogma are running with an uncapped framerate that is targeting 30 fps then it is going to be a stutter-fest on PS5 then since it has a basic implementation of VRR that only works from 48 to 60 fps (48 to 60 FPS). I will be playing this on PC anyway but I hope for everyone else's sake that the game has an option to cap it to 30 fps and that it is properly framepaced because otherwise it is not going to be a good experience in my opinion.

 

[Teh Chosen Juan]

lol you do realize i have gaf gold so i have seen each of your 4 edits to this post in realtime.

whoa. easy bro. save some pussy for the rest of us!

 

[Teh Chosen Juan]

If the console versions of Dragon's Dogma are running with an uncapped framerate that is targeting 30 fps then it is going to be a stutter-fest on PS5 then since it has a basic implementation of VRR that only works from 48 to 60 fps (48 to 60 FPS). I will be playing this on PC anyway but I hope for everyone else's sake that the game has an option to cap it to 30 fps and that it is properly framepaced because otherwise it is not going to be a good experience in my opinion.

well then shouldn't console folks with both just get it on series x? stepped away from PC gaming a few years ago (when the latest consoles came out) and just haven't brought myself to getting another one. so i'm thinking i'll get this bitch on series x and hope the vrr does a little to smooth things out.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

It'll all vanish once reviews are good.
It's a dull witted thing to ask 60 fps in all games on consoles.

It "vanishes" only because reviewers suck, being as fake as possible just trying to appease fanboys and publishers by giving out review scores they don't deserve instead of docking games for these kind of lame brain dev decisions.

The only fake gamers are the people saying 31 fps is desireable ...that makes zero sense..you want there to be bad frame pacing?!

Why is it you 30 fps warriors never want to take the sensible approach to having 2 modes, fidelity and performance? Actually it should be 3 modes by also having an optional unlocked fidelity mode for future back compatibility.

Anyone happy with 30 UNLOCKED is a fucking clown

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

well then shouldn't console folks with both just get it on series x? stepped away from PC gaming a few years ago (when the latest consoles came out) and just haven't brought myself to getting another one. so i'm thinking i'll get this bitch on series x and hope the vrr does a little to smooth things out.

Unlocked in the 30 fps range is still too low for VRR even on Series X...where have you been the last few years to not know this

 

[yamaci17]

Unlocked in the 30 fps range is still too low for VRR even on Series X...where have you been the last few years to not know this

not with lfc

120 hz + lfc = infinite coverage between 1 and 120 fps

technical explanation:

Low framerate compensation (LFC), allows AMD FreeSync technology to work when the framerate falls below the minimum refresh rate of the display. When the framerate drops below the minimum refresh rate of the display, frames are duplicated and displayed multiple times so that they can sync to a refresh rate that is within the displays refresh rate range. For example, a display with a 60 – 144Hz refresh rate, would be able to sync the frames of a game running at 40 FPS, by doubling them so that the display could sync and run at 80 Hz. A display with LFC effectively results in the removal of the minimum refresh rate boundary. All displays in the AMD FreeSync Premium and FreeSync Premium Pro tier are certified to meet mandatory LFC requirements.

actual example of how it works (triple lfc sync)

 

[Bojji]

Unlocked in the 30 fps range is still too low for VRR even on Series X...where have you been the last few years to not know this

not with lfc

120 hz + lfc = infinite coverage between 1 and 120 fps

technical explanation:

Low framerate compensation (LFC), allows AMD FreeSync technology to work when the framerate falls below the minimum refresh rate of the display. When the framerate drops below the minimum refresh rate of the display, frames are duplicated and displayed multiple times so that they can sync to a refresh rate that is within the displays refresh rate range. For example, a display with a 60 – 144Hz refresh rate, would be able to sync the frames of a game running at 40 FPS, by doubling them so that the display could sync and run at 80 Hz. A display with LFC effectively results in the removal of the minimum refresh rate boundary. All displays in the AMD FreeSync Premium and FreeSync Premium Pro tier are certified to meet mandatory LFC requirements.

actual example of how it works (triple lfc sync)

Exactly. This is what my tv gets from 3080ti, 33 fps turns into 66hz, 28fps into 56hz etc. and when framertate becomes "decent" (over 45) tv gets 1:1 fps/hz



Xbox works the same way, unlocked 30fps will be much better on it than on PS5.

 

[yamaci17]

Exactly. This is what my tv gets from 3080ti, 33 fps turns into 66hz, 28fps into 56hz etc. and when framertate becomes "decent" (over 45) tv gets 1:1 fps/hz



Xbox works the same way, unlocked 30fps will be much better on it than on PS5.

just for a note, I manipulated my screen's LFC behaviour by raising min. refresh rate with CRU

for example my monitor's default range is 48-144, and unmodified behaviour sees 36 fps tripled to 72 hz
I raised 48 min. refresh rate to 90 to make it 80-144. as a result, screen now has to to triple the refresh rate

benefits

- you get less gamma curve changes (some screens have worse gamma at lower refresh rates)
- less VRR flicker (if this doesn't happen it wouldnt apply to you)
- potentially better input lag
- potentially better cursor feel since most games process input based on the physical refresh rate

it is not that worth it if you don't need the first two benefits

though driver got funky so i returned back to regular range. so i dont recommend it. (but had to explain why i specifically have gotten 3x refresh rate in that example. i will recapture a similar video with normal driver behaviour)

 

[Bojji]

just for a note, I manipulated my screen's LFC behaviour by raising min. refresh rate with CRU

for example my monitor's default range is 48-144, and unmodified behaviour sees 36 fps tripled to 72 hz
I raised 48 min. refresh rate to 90 to make it 80-144. as a result, screen now has to to triple the refresh rate

benefits

- you get less gamma curve changes (some screens have worse gamma at lower refresh rates)
- less VRR flicker (if this doesn't happen it wouldnt apply to you)
- potentially better input lag
- potentially better cursor feel since most games process input based on the physical refresh rate

it is not that worth it if you don't need the first two benefits

though driver got funky so i returned back to regular range. so i dont recommend it. (but had to explain why i specifically have gotten 3x refresh rate in that example. i will recapture a similar video with normal driver behaviour)

Goof stuff, maybe I will try it one day, for LG minimum is set to 40 but nvidia is still doing LFC at this point. I only notice vrr/gamma issues on loading screens.

I use CRU to remove garbage 4096x2160 resolution that fucks up many things, I don't get why it isn't done automatically at this point.

 

[SkyHighTrees]

PS5 dropped the ball with this VRR limitation and the HDMI bandwidth. 442 sucks instead of 444

 

[Bojji]

PS5 dropped the ball with this VRR limitation and the HDMI bandwidth. 442 sucks instead of 444

TBH I don't see much difference, 4:2:2 is not that bad (like 4:2:0).

I use my PS5 in PC mode so I can actually benefit from 4:4:4 (RGB) but remember that most people use game modes on their tvs and for some (stupid as fuck) reason game modes on most tvs operate with 4:2:2 picture no matter what console is outputting.

 

[SkyHighTrees]

TBH I don't see much difference, 4:2:2 is not that bad (like 4:2:0).

I use my PS5 in PC mode so I can actually benefit from 4:4:4 (RGB) but remember that most people use game modes on their tvs and for some (stupid as fuck) reason game modes on most tvs operate with 4:2:2 picture no matter what console is outputting.

True. I use PC MODE too, but when playing on the 120hz container, It goes 422, contrary to Xbox and PC

 

[Teh Chosen Juan]

Unlocked in the 30 fps range is still too low for VRR even on Series X...where have you been the last few years to not know this

haha dude i know that. i'm hoping that unlocked it will push over 40fps. which, my nerdy friend, IS in the the range for VRR on series x. (it's got more TFLOPS!!!!!! RAW POWER!!!!!!) now come at me with terms like "cpu bottleneck" and try clowning me again.

 

[Reckheim]

don't be so hard on your self.

 

[JordiENP]

 

[TheShocker]

The character creator is out for all platforms. At least in looking at character models they seem super detailed. Tons of customization. Tried it on PS5 and XSX. On an LG C2 running the inputs on PC mode. I use the same settings for PQ on both inputs.

Couldn’t really tell any difference in IQ between consoles.

Not that it means much, but maybe a compatible experience either way.

 

[cripterion]

It "vanishes" only because reviewers suck, being as fake as possible just trying to appease fanboys and publishers by giving out review scores they don't deserve instead of docking games for these kind of lame brain dev decisions.

The only fake gamers are the people saying 31 fps is desireable ...that makes zero sense..you want there to be bad frame pacing?!

Why is it you 30 fps warriors never want to take the sensible approach to having 2 modes, fidelity and performance? Actually it should be 3 modes by also having an optional unlocked fidelity mode for future back compatibility.

Anyone happy with 30 UNLOCKED is a fucking clown

It won't vanish though, no one should be satisfied with 25 fps during combat.

 

[SkyHighTrees]

haha dude i know that. i'm hoping that unlocked it will push over 40fps. which, my nerdy friend, IS in the the range for VRR on series x. (it's got more TFLOPS!!!!!! RAW POWER!!!!!!) now come at me with terms like "cpu bottleneck" and try clowning me again.

Dis trash

 

[Boneless]

It might just not be his type of game, but Max is really doing his best not saying that the game is mediocre:


In the first 5 mins:
"this game plays like an early 2000's MMO"
"the good news I can echo one thing, this game is 100% what I thought it was going to be, which is kinda fun"
Sidequests "pretty fun"
Dialogue: "a bit better than what was present in the previous game", "it's relatively cool"
"dark souls 1 sluggish" "it's not specifically bad"

 

[Kacho]

It might just not be his type of game, but Max is really doing his best not saying that the game is mediocre:


In the first 5 mins:
"this game plays like an early 2000's MMO"
"the good news I can echo one thing, this game is 100% what I thought it was going to be, which is kinda fun"
Sidequests "pretty fun"
Dialogue: "a bit better than what was present in the previous game", "it's relatively cool"
"dark souls 1 sluggish" "it's not specifically bad"

“It feels sluggish. I have to the play the game with a different framerate.”

He says he thinks it will do very well. Stresses that it doesn’t hold your hand, which is expected if you played the first.

 

[ChiefDada]

My guess is NXG has a PC review code.

 

[rofif]

This thread is pathetic af.
I don't want modes, I don't mind 30fps. I just want to play the version mastered by the devs as best as possible. Should be nothing wrong with that.
Sometimes they don't know what they are doing lol. 30fp this gen has been mostly atrocious but some 30fps games this gen are good without that huge input lag like demons souls 30fps mode.
It being unlocked though is not good of course but potentially it's still better than if they vsynced 30fps to hell and back and it was laggy and delayed
edit: to those saying that modes don't hurt. They do. Most of the time if game got modes, they are undercooked. Especially 30fps modes.

 

[Quezacolt]

This thread is pathetic af.
I don't want modes, I don't mind 30fps. I just want to play the version mastered by the devs as best as possible. Should be nothing wrong with that.
Sometimes they don't know what they are doing lol. 30fp this gen has been mostly atrocious but some 30fps games this gen are good without that huge input lag like demons souls 30fps mode.
It being unlocked though is not good of course but potentially it's still better than if they vsynced 30fps to hell and back and it was laggy and delayed
edit: to those saying that modes don't hurt. They do. Most of the time if game got modes, they are undercooked. Especially 30fps modes.

I don't mind having modes, but its true that 30fps this gen has been awful for the most part. I had no isses playing ps4 and even switch games at 30fps, but ps5 games? They feel awful.
Demon's souls remake, cyberpunk, and many others. It's like devs forgot how to make 30fps not be god awful.
Square has actually handled this well. Playing ff16 and ff7 rebirth on graphics mode, and they felt smooth to me.

 

[Bojji]

This thread is pathetic af.
I don't want modes, I don't mind 30fps. I just want to play the version mastered by the devs as best as possible. Should be nothing wrong with that.
Sometimes they don't know what they are doing lol. 30fp this gen has been mostly atrocious but some 30fps games this gen are good without that huge input lag like demons souls 30fps mode.
It being unlocked though is not good of course but potentially it's still better than if they vsynced 30fps to hell and back and it was laggy and delayed
edit: to those saying that modes don't hurt. They do. Most of the time if game got modes, they are undercooked. Especially 30fps modes.

I don't mind having modes, but its true that 30fps this gen has been awful for the most part. I had no isses playing ps4 and even switch games at 30fps, but ps5 games? They feel awful.
Demon's souls remake, cyberpunk, and many others. It's like devs forgot how to make 30fps not be god awful.
Square has actually handled this well. Playing ff16 and ff7 rebirth on graphics mode, and they felt smooth to me.

Input lag has been neglected by console developers for a long time, many of them still don't give a shit. Even some 60fps games are HEAVY to control. Image stuttering in 30fps games is one thing but high input lag COMPLETLY kills the experience on the spot.

On PC nvidia and AMD have options to improve input lag, plus players can lock framerate few fps below display refresh rate, turn off vsync etc.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

This thread is pathetic af.
I don't want modes, I don't mind 30fps. I just want to play the version mastered by the devs as best as possible. Should be nothing wrong with that.
Sometimes they don't know what they are doing lol. 30fp this gen has been mostly atrocious but some 30fps games this gen are good without that huge input lag like demons souls 30fps mode.
It being unlocked though is not good of course but potentially it's still better than if they vsynced 30fps to hell and back and it was laggy and delayed
edit: to those saying that modes don't hurt. They do. Most of the time if game got modes, they are undercooked. Especially 30fps modes.

True but that's only when devs don't care about the 30 fps mode. When they do care we get games like Spiderman 2, Forbidden West (may not have been great at launch but today it's a "great" 30 fps mode), and FF7 Remake. Not sure why anyone would want to argue against modes because ultimately that's vital in terms of future proofing a game via backwards compatibility. Without a mode being capped at 60 or at the very least being unlocked, these games will be forever stuck at 30 fps.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

It might just not be his type of game, but Max is really doing his best not saying that the game is mediocre:


In the first 5 mins:
"this game plays like an early 2000's MMO"
"the good news I can echo one thing, this game is 100% what I thought it was going to be, which is kinda fun"
Sidequests "pretty fun"
Dialogue: "a bit better than what was present in the previous game", "it's relatively cool"
"dark souls 1 sluggish" "it's not specifically bad"

That puts the deathnell into this for me. If he's saying it's sluggish that means that it's going to feel bad at 30 fps on ps5. I'm sure it'll be much better on PC at 60 though. What a damn shame. They had ONE job! DD1 on console has always been SO held back by 30 fps and prior to all this disappointing news I was sure DD2 would be 60 on PS5! How wrong I was! Can't believe it honestly but I should've seen this coming from a developer that couldn't even give fans of DD1 a patch for 60 fps on PS5. Some devs don't care about framerate and as a result don't really care about console gamers I guess.

These types of games play soooo much better at 60 fps then 30! Third person, action rpg where precision and movement is paramount while simultaneously having to juggle between inventory/spells/aiming ...this is the type of thing that's making this gen so disappointing for me. Games like this and Starfield that look nice buy aren't cutting edge have no excuse not to have a 60 fps mode.

 

[rofif]

True but that's only when devs don't care about the 30 fps mode. When they do care we get games like Spiderman 2, Forbidden West (may not have been great at launch but today it's a "great" 30 fps mode), and FF7 Remake. Not sure why anyone would want to argue against modes because ultimately that's vital in terms of future proofing a game via backwards compatibility. Without a mode being capped at 60 or at the very least being unlocked, these games will be forever stuck at 30 fps.

Yea these are good 30fps examples I agree

 

[Bojji]

 

[jorgejjvr]

Guess that's a skip for me then

 

[Shtef]

Exactly. This is what my tv gets from 3080ti, 33 fps turns into 66hz, 28fps into 56hz etc. and when framertate becomes "decent" (over 45) tv gets 1:1 fps/hz



Xbox works the same way, unlocked 30fps will be much better on it than on PS5.

How are you getting real fps numbers on lg tv? When i turn on freesync and vrr for my xbox and gsync for pc i can only see 120fps, it doesnt matter what fps is game running.

 

[22:22:22]

I played through Elden Ring almost twice with uncapped FR on SS. No issue. Much better than a set 30 cap.

 

[Bojji]

How are you getting real fps numbers on lg tv? When i turn on freesync and vrr for my xbox and gsync for pc i can only see 120fps, it doesnt matter what fps is game running.

On Xbox it might be ok (for 60fps games) but on pc something is wrong clearly. When game is between 45-120fps you should see correct readings on tv "hud".

Make sure you have this selected because many games are borderless and gsync by default is turned off for desktop (so for window and borderless too):

 

[Pop]

It might just not be his type of game, but Max is really doing his best not saying that the game is mediocre:


In the first 5 mins:
"this game plays like an early 2000's MMO"
"the good news I can echo one thing, this game is 100% what I thought it was going to be, which is kinda fun"
Sidequests "pretty fun"
Dialogue: "a bit better than what was present in the previous game", "it's relatively cool"
"dark souls 1 sluggish" "it's not specifically bad"

He also played the shitty unlocked 30fps console port

His thoughts were he very much enjoyed what he played. But will need to play on PC

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Better than 12 FPS or whatever the original was on PS3.

 

[yamaci17]

On Xbox it might be ok (for 60fps games) but on pc something is wrong clearly. When game is between 45-120fps you should see correct readings on tv "hud".

Make sure you have this selected because many games are borderless and gsync by default is turned off for desktop (so for window and borderless too):

you don't need that second option at all aside from super niche cases

you only needed it for truly windowed games, you don't need it it for borderless windowed games. borderless windowed games are treated as fullscreen games because they really are (with flip model). With MPOs and optimizations for windowed games setting, all games can now be elevated to flip model even if they run in a window. enabling windowed option will only potentially cause problems in windowed applications that you may not want VRR to activate

almost all modern dx11 games should be using flip model in borderless fullscreen and flip model is a forced defualt with dx12. so technically all dx12 games, windowed or not, should be able to activate VRR with the 1st option

that 2nd option is just a dwm hack that worked very unreliably so we have better solutions now that does not that option anymore

w11 optimizations for windowed mode in action:

it is most likely there's a bigger problem with their configuration if they never see 120 hz change at all

 

[Fbh]

I played through Elden Ring almost twice with uncapped FR on SS. No issue. Much better than a set 30 cap.

Did you play in performance or resolution mode though?
Because this will be closer to the resolution mode of Elden Ring on SS (except slightly worse)

The performance mode in ER was usually in the 45-60fps range which isn't ideal but with VRR still looks and feels way better than what this game is offering.

 

[22:22:22]

Performance ofcourse

Even without vrr it was fine

 

[Mister Wolf]

 

[IAmRei]

Still fine, as long as stable. Im low tech gamer anyway.

 

[SoSola]

Seems like PC and PS5 Pro will be the saving grace for decent performance.

Imagining having to already upgrade from PS5 to its pro variant. Glad I quit PlayStation after 4.

Next Gen console? The PS5 has been as disappointing as the Xbox.

I'll take the combo of Elden Ring's scope,multiplayer and performance over any visual short comings vs DD2...

Dragon's Dogma 2's performance on PC will be fine. Also scope? Elden Ring's enemies are mostly static, the combat is basic and its world is dead. Multiplayer has always been trash in From Software games too. Elden Ring doesn't even compare to the first Dragon's Dogma which has some of the best boss fights in an ARPG. From the previews of Dragon's Dogma 2, Elden Ring can't even hold a candle to it.

One day you'll understand that when you play the next From Software release and you're still hacking away at a giant's toes, fighting brain dead AI or fighting a dragon with the same exact boring predictable attack pattern and reused animations still from Dark Souls 1.

 

[Skifi28]

Dragon's Dogma 2's performance on PC will be fine.

I'm sure someone, at some point said the same about jedi survivor.

 

[yamaci17]

I'm sure someone, at some point said the same about jedi survivor.

and it was fine, especially when you disabled ray tracing

game ran fine even on ancient hardware. problem with jedi survivor was insistence on forcing ray tracing on consoles



and it is also fixed on consoles too now with ray tracing out of the question



people with 1070s 1080s and 2070s will disable ray tracing and play the game fine. just like people did with jedi survivor. too bad developers have a weird insistence on forcing ray tracing on console

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I played through Elden Ring almost twice with uncapped FR on SS. No issue. Much better than a set 30 cap.

Did you miss the part of the discussion where it's unlocked but hovering around 30 fps? That's NOTHING like Elden Rings unlocked 60.

Wake up dude this is going to be miserable experience on console. Stop giving the thunbs up to games like this when you're confused to begin with about how bad the performance actually is.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Still fine, as long as stable. Im low tech gamer anyway.

It's not fucking stable though lol

What is it with some of you guys? You are in fantasy land. If you've been on Gaf in the last week you'd know it's uncapped, fluctauting around 30 which means bad frame pacing and stuttering

This is why on console devs keep releasing games like this because too many console gamers just tell themselves "everything will be alright" even when it's totally fucked.

Another commenter before you said "well Elden Ring was unlocked framerate and I played that just fine" ...DD2 framerate is nowhere near as "good" as Elden Rings on PS5 (which wasn't good to begin with but was MUCH better than the 31 fps of DD2)

 

[vkbest]

Still fine, as long as stable. Im low tech gamer anyway.

Unlocked means unstable by definition.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Man, this is not looking good, uncapped with frequent dips to sub-20something fps - even John mentioned that the technical decisions are baffling and that it should have launched with an optional perf. mode.
He particularly mentions the juddery feel the game has - couple that with an OLED TV and things will probably look like a G'damn slideshow.

This will probably play better on an XSX due to LFC being system wide compared to a PS5 where its VRR range is only 48-60fps.

The other thing he mentioned which I'm also in complete agreement with is the fact that the original PS3 game was notorious for its bad performance and instead of trying to leave that behind and actually improve things for the sequel they actually doubled down on the questionable performance.

As of right now, I see absolutely no reason of preordering it or getting this on a PS5 - this is a case of a game needing more powerful hardware when it comes to consoles (PS5 Pro) not to mention, it's gonna be at half the price by the time the Pro releases.

I don't get it, just like the other dude in the video said, this needed to have a lower resolution (it renders at 2160p) as to have it run better (obviously).

Really baffling decisions on Capcom's part IMO.

PS: fake gamer® here

 

[Bojji]

Man, this is not looking good, uncapped with frequent dips to sub-20something fps - even John mentioned that the technical decisions are baffling and that it should have launched with an optional perf. mode.
He particularly mentions the juddery feel the game has - couple that with an OLED TV and things will probably look like G'damn slideshow.

This will probably play better on an XSX due to LFC being system wide compared to a PS5 where its VRR range is only 48-60fps.

The other thing he mentioned which I'm also in complete agreement with is the fact the PS3 original game was notorious for its bad performance and instead of trying to leave that behind and actually improve things for the sequel they actually doubled down on the questionable performance.

As of right now, I see absolutely no reason of preordering it or getting this on a PS5 - this is a case of a game needing more powerful hardware when it comes to consoles (PS5 Pro) not to mention, it's gonna be at half the price by the time the Pro releases.

I don't get it, just like the other dude in the video said, this needed to have a lower resolution (it renders at 2160p) as to have it run better (obviously).

Really baffling decisions on Capcom's part IMO.

PS: fake gamer® here

It runs with CB 2160p so half of actual 4K, at least that's what they suspect and it clearly needs resolution cut for at least stable 30fps.

 

[IAmRei]

It's not fucking stable though lol

What is it with some of you guys? You are in fantasy land. If you've been on Gaf in the last week you'd know it's uncapped, fluctauting around 30 which means bad frame pacing and stuttering

This is why on console devs keep releasing games like this because too many console gamers just tell themselves "everything will be alright" even when it's totally fucked.

Another commenter before you said "well Elden Ring was unlocked framerate and I played that just fine" ...DD2 framerate is nowhere near as "good" as Elden Rings on PS5 (which wasn't good to begin with but was MUCH better than the 31 fps of DD2)

And lets wait until its launched first. And im not limited to consoles, i have pc as well.

 

[digdug2]

And lets wait until its launched first. And im not limited to consoles, i have pc as well.

There could very well be a Day One patch that addresses the shittastic performance. I can definitely hope! But then again, who knows.

 

[Skifi28]

There could very well be a Day One patch that addresses the shittastic performance. I can definitely hope! But then again, who knows.

I could live with the unlocked framerate, it's the drops to the 20s I couldn't handle and then the PC version could also be crap with stuttering or whatever else. I'll be looking closely at benchmarks before I decide where to commit.