This is why I don't read or post in political threads. Directing words like bigot or racist at people just for supporting any republican or conservative candidate or viewpoint. This makes my blood boil and I see it in every damn political thread I open. Congrats, I mad. I very mad. I'll resist sharing what I think of people like you because it would surely get me banned. Have a nice day.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
ConservativeGAF
- Thread starter Reagan's BR
- Start date
- Status
I'm not going to say I completely agree, but I do know what you're saying here with this post. It is kind of obnoxious.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Trent Strong
Banned
lol?
I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (1 Timothy 2:12)
This is what the Lord Almighty says... Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey. (1 Samuel 15:3)
Do not allow a sorceress to live. (Exodus 22:18)
Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks. (Psalm 137:9)
In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error. (Romans 1:27)
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. (Ephesians 5:22)
Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel. (1 Peter 2:
shadyspace
Banned
Conservatism in America would be fine if more conservatives were actually conservatives.
OJdaKiller
Member
I agree with you. While I don't really agree with either the left or right wing, I simply can not stand how the left attempts to make points/arguements by namecalling all in an attempt to intimidate...You're crazy, you're a racist, you're a bigot, you're a homophobe..It's all just namecalling in the end...Tough to take a party who uses this as their main tactic very seriously...
The irony is by doing that, they're being bigots themselves.
PrivateWHudson
Member
If you really want to be called racist, just mention giving power back to the states. Apparently that's code for something.
OJdaKiller
Member
As is being against potential voter fraud. That's code for not wanting poor people to vote..How about everyone having a right to an official ID used for the purposes of voting(in addition to numerous other things)? Wouldn't the problem be solved? Leaving the doors open to fraud doesn't seem to solve anything.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Does your plan involve the spending and infrastructure to track down and send every single citizen a free ID? if not than some people will slip through the cracks, and their right to vote will be infringed.
Red Blaster
Member
Because voter fraud is so rare that it effectively doesn't exist
Voter ID laws are racist garbage that Republicans use to suppress black voters
SquiddyCracker
Banned
If you're a fiscal conservative, aren't you basically a form of libertarian?
If you're a social conservative, you're not going to be applauded for your opinions on abortion/gay rights/minorities here on GAF.
OJdaKiller
Member
Well providing free IDs to people is a right in my opinion. I wouldn't say send people an ID, but make getting them super easy. Whatever the cost would be would be justified in my opinion. Lord knows we blow money on dumber stuff than helping to strengthen the validity of our elections.
PrivateWHudson
Member
Quick google search says 21 million adults without photo ID. At $5 a pop that's just a hair over $100 million to lay the whole issue to rest. Why not?
I think conservatives stay out of political threads because they are afraid of having to question their entire worldview, not because liberals are big meanie heads who are intolerant of their views. It must suck to realize your side has been on the wrong side of history on every single civil rights issue since the 1950's. Hell, every economic issue since the Great Depression as well.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I'm a real conservative.
I am not a real Conservative, though. You feel me?
I am very traditional family values, I disapprove of abortions in almost all cases, to the point that I would take away personal rights (that mothers have right now to kill their babies) to protect other personal rights (that is, to give fetuses a chance to become babies). I am all for personal freedoms where they don't interfere with my personal freedoms and where they don't also make it harder for me to raise my kids how I wish to raise them.
To that end, I am all for the legalization and taxation of Marijuana, along with the decriminalization for other drugs and their users, but not for those who make and sell the drugs.
That said, I follow the adages given by the Lord that say,
"Love they neighbor" (all for social programs that help the poor, sick, and elderly)
"Turn the other cheek" (anti-death penalty. They don't deter crime and instead make our justice system into a retaliatory one, instead of merely providing justice)
"Those who deny the hand to the sick and needy are condemned" (From the Book of Mormon, people should give incredibly liberally to help those around us. I never begrudge the man with his hand out because I cannot judge his case, whether he will use the money for succor or liquor, I did my part by not denying him"
"Set not your heart upon the riches of the world." (I grew up the poorest in my immediate community and lived the happiest as far as I could tell)
While I am a Mormon and think that marriage between a man and a woman (light the Mercury Fred signal, my bigoted views are on full display), it is not my business to legislate that, since the government recognizes straight couples for tax benefits, visitation and adoption rights, etc, they should do the same for gay couples. I would prefer that all relationships be called "civil unions" by the government, leaving the term marriage for churches, but obvious that would never catch on. Too ingrained into society and the term "marriage" has a certain status that "union" will never have. Separate but equal doesn't work in a supposedly fair society, so whatever.
I am obviously for true Universal Healthcare and long for its adoption.
I am all about slashing military budgets and getting the federal government out of things where they don't belong, but am also more than willing to raise taxes across the board to help reduce the deficit.
I am a somewhat spiteful person in the fact that I would almost not mind seeing people reap what they sow hard work and studying for wealth and security, drug use, dropping out of high school and living a capricious lifestyle for poverty and suffering, but by reading my scriptures, I know that that is simply not the Christian way to live. We can simply not allow people to get what is coming to them. We must be above greed, malice, spite, and envy and help everyone, even if they offend us thousands of times.
I am not a real Conservative, though. You feel me?
I am very traditional family values, I disapprove of abortions in almost all cases, to the point that I would take away personal rights (that mothers have right now to kill their babies) to protect other personal rights (that is, to give fetuses a chance to become babies). I am all for personal freedoms where they don't interfere with my personal freedoms and where they don't also make it harder for me to raise my kids how I wish to raise them.
To that end, I am all for the legalization and taxation of Marijuana, along with the decriminalization for other drugs and their users, but not for those who make and sell the drugs.
That said, I follow the adages given by the Lord that say,
"Love they neighbor" (all for social programs that help the poor, sick, and elderly)
"Turn the other cheek" (anti-death penalty. They don't deter crime and instead make our justice system into a retaliatory one, instead of merely providing justice)
"Those who deny the hand to the sick and needy are condemned" (From the Book of Mormon, people should give incredibly liberally to help those around us. I never begrudge the man with his hand out because I cannot judge his case, whether he will use the money for succor or liquor, I did my part by not denying him"
"Set not your heart upon the riches of the world." (I grew up the poorest in my immediate community and lived the happiest as far as I could tell)
While I am a Mormon and think that marriage between a man and a woman (light the Mercury Fred signal, my bigoted views are on full display), it is not my business to legislate that, since the government recognizes straight couples for tax benefits, visitation and adoption rights, etc, they should do the same for gay couples. I would prefer that all relationships be called "civil unions" by the government, leaving the term marriage for churches, but obvious that would never catch on. Too ingrained into society and the term "marriage" has a certain status that "union" will never have. Separate but equal doesn't work in a supposedly fair society, so whatever.
I am obviously for true Universal Healthcare and long for its adoption.
I am all about slashing military budgets and getting the federal government out of things where they don't belong, but am also more than willing to raise taxes across the board to help reduce the deficit.
I am a somewhat spiteful person in the fact that I would almost not mind seeing people reap what they sow hard work and studying for wealth and security, drug use, dropping out of high school and living a capricious lifestyle for poverty and suffering, but by reading my scriptures, I know that that is simply not the Christian way to live. We can simply not allow people to get what is coming to them. We must be above greed, malice, spite, and envy and help everyone, even if they offend us thousands of times.
These accusations are an unfortunate side effect of a nation that despite having a black president is still heavily race divided. I think the real irony is that the people who feel so persecuted being called racist are largely unconcerned with actual institutionalized racism, and don't vote or do shit to help stop it. Oblivious to the advantage they have as a comfortable white person they are appalled by the libs using scare tactics, which are used by every political party in history.
And we instead get something like voter fraud that is blown up into an enormous problem. We just have to stop this pervasive voter fraud. This is legislation I would cook up if I thought I'd lose my job for being overtly racist.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Because voter fraud is the very definition of a statistically insignificant problem. Lets say that your ID program is wildly successful and only fails to reach, say, 50,000 voters. That's still orders of magnitude more than the documented cases of voter fraud. Why spend the money and risk causing that many people to be unable to vote to try and patch a problem that has never had an effect on an election?
OJdaKiller
Member
Okay...So the problem is statistically insignificant. It's a small problem. I don't understand the logic in not wanting to solve the problem. And not only being disinterested in solving the problem, but actually, opposed to solve a problem. I don't think I'll ever understand this.
And I'm not saying voter fraud is a big issue either. It's just one of those issues that gets brought up that at this time in US history shouldn't be on the table to discuss...Just like abortion...Just like the "war on drugs", or any other sort pseudo-moral issue...I could care less about who get married..If you want to get married, go for it..Marriage sucks no matter who gets married..
It should be about ending wars immediately, improving the economy, and putting people back to work..I want defined plans and strategies outlined by any politician claiming they should be the next president. If you can't give me that, I don't really care because the rest of the stuff is fluff..Get money and jobs back in the hands of the people and everyone is better off. Stop spending cash on useless campaigns that don't benefit anyone, kill thousands of people in the process, and only further erode our national image. Reverse the deficit. I don't have the answers, but any person who claims to be presidential material certainly should have them...If you don't have them, GTFO!
PrivateWHudson
Member
Personally I don't think it's a problem, but how much is being spent arguing about it in the courts? Maybe I just don't get how someone who really wants to vote would be discouraged by having to stop by the DMV once every four years to get their free ID. They may find that it comes in handy for other things they need to do as well.
Anyway, this is why I stay out of political discussions. I make a comment backing up someone about cost, then somehow get sucked into trying to defend something that I don't know or care much about.
The parties main tactic that they take very seriously is name calling? Don't you think that's
1. A generalization
2. Impossible to measure?
Why even say something like that? It makes you no better than the people you claim generalize and jump to conclusions, don't you think that's a bit ironic?
Conservative GAF - next time you see a thread and you want to contribute, go in, construct a strong argument and try to be respectful, and maybe you'll be surprised at the results.
I've often seen gaffers who pile on a respectful conservative gaffer for no reason get "scolded" by other liberals. I reiterate, many people want discussion and want to be challenged, and if you really think your position holds weight, use it to challenge them and yourself.
How can I interpret this in any other way than "I just wanted people to hear my opinion without being challenged"? Is that really why you stay out of political threads, because you just want to drop nuggets like that without anyone asking for more detail, because you "don't know or care much about" it?
SquiddyCracker
Banned
If you are a social conservative though, you better have some really solid arguments to support your views.
Because social conservatives bear an unfair burden of proof? Why should they have to have arguments that are any better then any one elses?
Schattenjäger
Gabriel Knight
I wonder how many gaf liberals will pull a Dennis Miller and become conservatives once they get older
I'm thinking more than a few
I'm thinking more than a few
I think it's more along the lines that social conservative ideologies are often times interspersed with offensive rhetoric. Not necessarily always, but if you want to legitimately discuss that sort of thing, you need to approach the subject with caution.
For example - gay marriage. If you basically say "I think homosexuality is a sin against God and the gay agenda shouldn't be getting any support from my tax dollars" or something along those lines, you're probably skirting the line of a banning. If you want to say "I personally don't feel homosexuality is right, and I tend to want the government to reflect my personal convictions, it's in my nature" - you're not going to get banned, but you're not presenting the sort of argument that can even be discussed. I think gay rights is one of those social conservative issues that you really can't discuss with logic, and thus, is at it's core faulty.
PrivateWHudson
Member
Do you see the irony in your comments? Conservative GAF has to come in with a well structured argument that can stand up just to participate. I would have to be a complete authority on every subject to comment on anything since odds are there is at least one liberal GAFer that is an authority on the subject.
Schattenjäger;43113709 said:
I guess once you've "got yours" it is a bit easier to say "fuck you."
In seriousness, though I started very conservative, but I don't think I necessarily changed. I just realized that conservatism isn't what it says it is. It doesn't accomplish the things it says it does. I think AlteredBeast does a good job of touching on some of those values up above. I didn't stop being conservative, really. I just realized that being a "liberal" doesn't mean abandoning those values and principles at all.
In the US, Conservatism and Liberalism conflate too many issues. As a young voter I'd be willing to give the Republicans a chance with the economy, and I do agree that more governmental intervention is kind of silly at this point of economic starvation, but the moralistic absolutes that control Conservatism are against my beliefs, and in the end I think moral standards take precedent over business matters.
First - that's not actually irony, even if I agreed with your statement. Secondly, you're strawmanning me - who says you need to be a complete authority on every subject to comment on anything? If you make a statement, be prepared to be challenged on it! Do you just expect it to slide under the radar without anyone saying anything? Or would you rather people just agree? Third - dude, everyone gets challenged on opinions on this board. Everyone, I get challenged all the damn time, and if I feel as though my position is strong, I'll do my best to defend it. If I just make some comment out of my ass, and someone says 'You're wrong about x, y and z' and I -am- wrong about x y and z, well fuck - I just learned something.
This is my point. If you are being challenged legitimately, and you have nothing to really say in return because you realize your point is not a strong one, it probably means you need to re-evaluate your position on said statement, or at least look at ways of strengthening it no?
This is all nice and dandy but doesn't actually happen in most threads. You're called stupid, a bigot, racist, whatever and that's the end of the conversation.
Look at this thread. Someone says something about voter ID and you get " its a racist law against blacks." Right off the bat. Why even fucking bother.
GAF should be fun. Not a chore where you have to defend yourself against strangers because we have different opinions on things. Poligaf isn't fun.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
No, see the following post:
Schattenjäger;43113709 said:
How many people will suddenly have a heart of change when it comes to the idea that gays should have equal rights, abortion should be legalized, and the United States shouldn't play world cop?
Even if one benefits from fiscal conservatism as one gets older, I don't see how those benefits could ever be worth giving into the social conservatism that is unfortunately the Siamese twin of the former in American politics.
If someone says that it's a racist law aimed against disenfranchising blacks, ask them to back that statement up? It goes both ways.
What if they're right?
well as an American patriot, it makes my blood boil to see people who would willingly restrict the rights of citizens. if you want marriage equality and women to retain their rights you're not a social conservative, you're a decent human being.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
You take that back. PoliGAF is the best of GAF 90% of the time, and it is accidentally still awesome the other 10% of the time for different reasons.
PrivateWHudson
Member
I agree, yes. That said, sticking to the topic, liberal GAF can just pop in, make a comment, have another GAFer grab the baton and add layers to the argument, then another and so on. A Conservative here better be damn well ready to make a night of it, and will probably still lose out because eventually there will be some part of the argument that he doesn't have enough detail about, or a source for just due to the shear volume of posts coming from the other side.
I should really be arguing about how thinking someone going up to a dude in the school gym and saying I'd like to vote may be open to abuse, and wanting to fix that isn't inherently racist. Instead I'm trying to defend why Conservative GAFers just stay away from political topics because it just becomes too big of a mess.
Edit: see, and I forgot to quote kinitari, so I just end up looking like a rambling idiot.
I should really be arguing about how thinking someone going up to a dude in the school gym and saying I'd like to vote may be open to abuse, and wanting to fix that isn't inherently racist. Instead I'm trying to defend why Conservative GAFers just stay away from political topics because it just becomes too big of a mess.
Edit: see, and I forgot to quote kinitari, so I just end up looking like a rambling idiot.
Sye d'Burns
Member
Taking the conservative view of US politics on GAF is really akin to spitting in the wind. It's a fruitless endevour that leaves the conservative feeling as though they accomplished nothing. In they end, the conservative just has to walk away feeling dirty.
Joshua said:
Deny deny deny!
This paper is great and people should read it. It may be very specific, but applies to a wider denomination of issues.
soul creator
Member
whenever I read about liberal-GAF "dogpiling" with too many links and posts, and conservative-GAF feeling bothered by it, it reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur_hNt2OssY
SquiddyCracker
Banned
What goes both ways. His bullshit?
If he wants to believe that fine. I don't care. However this is an example of how GAF really is, and what liberal posters are just allowed to say.
We all want to believe that all you have to do is be clear and kind and you could debate anything...that isn't true. At all.
Look, why don't we try giving it a quick shot with voter ID?
While the ethical[i/] reason behind wanting no voter fraud is understandable, do you think that voter fraud is in anyway significant enough to impact the election process? Do you understand the argument that legislation regarding voter fraud oftentimes corresponds with the closing down of DMVs and occasionally the leaked (R) memo that says that they specifically want it to go through so as to disenfranchise a particular audience that they feel are not likely to vote for them?
Did you bother asking him why he thinks what he thinks? Did you try challenging him (that's what goes both ways btw)? Again I ask, what if he's right? Does it matter to you, do you really want to consider the possibility?
You paint a picture of a place where people are never swayed, and no one learns anything new. That's an inaccurate picture, and I can match your worries against dozens of personal and non personal anecdotes. Discussion happens, people learn and grow here.
PrivateWHudson
Member
Posting in a political thread makes me feel like that .gif of the kid that gets knocked off his stool by all of the flying book bags.
Yeah, if the kid was covered with a white text box called "unfounded statement" and the bags were covered with faces of Bill Clinton.
PrivateWHudson
Member
Since you've grabbed the baton from TheTechnomancer, I'll let someone else take it from me.
- Status