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[Gordon Shumway]

Well at least he recognizes he's a weak, pathetic clown.

 

[Arkeband]

(joke ruined by people clearly being in the room with him)

 

[CopperPuppy]

I don't see the problem here and I cant stand the guy.

Not everyone is well adjusted, and a lot of religious folk are followers because they need that counter balance to a deep seeded problem.

Pence knows himself better than anyone I imagine, so if the guy feels this is necessary, then it's necessary. He could have self control issues.


That said, more fuel for the scathing fire that is, "Why the hell is he in Congress, let alone the vice president to begin with "

LOL, man, GAF never disappoints.

Imagine asking your buddy to go grab a beer and his reply is, "Whoa, back up, are there gonna be women at this bar? My wife is out of town bro you know I can't be doing that unless she is there to chaperone. Maybe next time."

That's psychotic.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Literally afraid of being around women.

This is weird.

Is it?

 

[Phoenix RISING]

When I was a kid, my Christian church liked to preach about how interracial relationships were dangerous. More recently it's about how gay relationships are evil.

Standard practice among Christians definitely shouldn't preclude criticism.

Sure. I'm a fan of criticism. I've got ano advanced degree in it (English).

But this strikes me as getting angry at the sky being blue or the grass being green. "Religious people doing religious things? BURN THEM!"

A more balanced approach from from The Atlantic:

These comments show that the Pences have a distinctively conservative approach toward family, sex, and gender. This is by no means the way that all Christians, or even all evangelical Christians like the Pences, navigate married life. But traditional religious people from other backgrounds may practice something similar. Many Orthodox Jews follow the laws of yichud, which prohibit unmarried men and women from being alone in a closed room together. Some Muslim men and women also refuse to be together alone if they’re not married. These practices all have different histories and origins, but they’re rooted in the same belief: The sanctity of marriage should be protected, and sexual immorality should be guarded against at all costs.

That idea might seem disorienting to more socially progressive Americans. For one thing, it shows a deep awareness of gender and sexuality: The implication is that temptations to flirt or cheat are present in everyday interactions.

The second paragraph certainly describes this thread. I'm an advocate for the first.

I should also add that the outrage toward Mike Pence is telling, because the the original piece was about KAREN. You might call Karen on internalized sexism, but then you also do a disservice to her own agency, a factor that feminists are still wrestling with when it comes to women exhibiting behaviors contrary to that which we would call progressive.

So, proper criticism would begin with addressing why Karen "enables" or "condones" the practice of unsupervised/chaperoned opposite-sex interactions, along with the millions of women on Earth who do the same and expect such from their husbands. Ideally, the answer will be something better than they secretly hate their own existences.

I mean, if you're interested in a conversation more intellectually stimulating than "**** religion."

 

[Derwind]

<snip>
I mean, if you're interested in a conversation more intellectually stimulating than "**** religion."

Again, it'd be fine thing to do at home but if you bring your habits in your private life to the office of the Vice President of the United States, that's a problem.

If his rule on conducting himself with his colleagues is that he can only trust himself around one set of staffers and not the others, then we have a problem as that does affect his ability to do his job.

And is that the type of person we want as VP, is that the standard to which we hold this office.

This is a thread about Pence but the office of the presidency is also a world-wide disgrace at this time.

This adminstration is embarrassing at so many levels.

 

[kaching]

Again, this seems more like he's not trying to give off the appearance of being on a date, out of respect for his wife, not that he's struggling with an uncontrollable sex addiction.

Why should he worry about the "appearance" of a date if he's a professional doing his job and his wife in turn respects his professionalism and trusts him? If there's no sign of weakness on his part, what's the rational reason for operating this way?

 

[Nerokis]

1. He must meet with colleagues in a professional capacity alone sometimes, more than just brief exchanges but meeting as well. How can he take a position of authority like he has if he feels compromised anytime he is alone with a colleague of the opposite gender? Can he not really trust himself to the extent he needs to extend his ground rules to his professional life?

2. Although debatable at times, the US is the leader of the free world and a nation that upholds separation of church and state, that the legislative body will be seperate from religion and will not favour any religion. So, if Pence, who is VP, one of the highest offices you can reach in the US government is so religiously compromised that he can not meet colleagues in a private capacity, how can we be sure he is not so compromised to legislate properly?

3. Sexism should hold no place in any governing office, ever. His accessibility to his colleagues are heavily skewed to his male staffers, in a historically male dominated establishment, this is extremely unacceptable. Keep your rules and your religion out of the office, otherwise you should not have run for office if you were so compromised in the first place to fairly do your duty.

4. This is a horrible and regressive example for a growing generation, we already have a serial rapist that was legitimized as President, this is just another strike at this administration on how they view women. As a potential infidelity and a succubus, absolutely no fucking accountability for their own urges. It's not hard to operate as a decent human being towards others, its not, I don't care how married this man is, he shouldn't bring his marital issues to an office helping run an establishment that oversees the lives of 300 million lives.

1). This is an exaggeration. In 2002, Mike Pence told The Hill that he doesn't dine alone with women who aren't his wife, nor goes to events featuring alcohol without her; this doesn't necessarily translate into "uncomfortable being alone with a woman in all situations," and in fact, him feeling uncomfortable doesn't have to be the point of the aforementioned rules at all.

2). This is not how it works. The implication of the 'separation between church and state' principle (which does not have just one interpretation, it should be said) is not that public officials themselves need to be 100% secular in their world views. Religion has had a role in public debate as long as the US has been a thing, and while there is a debate to be had about the precise role religion should have, this "religiously compromised" concept you're presenting is absolutely bizarre, a nonstarter, and doesn't evoke good things. Remember, one of Obama's most famous moments was singing Amazing Grace in a speech. Good luck getting religion out of the decision-making of our public officials, especially the more traditional/conservative ones.

Also, we didn't need the 2002 anecdote to know Mike Pence is super religious.

3). We don't know the precise parameters of the Don't Dine Alone with a Woman Who Isn't Karen and Don't Drink Without Karen rules, the rush to assume his work has been affected in some dramatic manner is unwarranted, and a lot of people would argue that there should be some room to express one's personal beliefs at a job.

4). Well, much as we did when we were the "growing generation," it is natural that one will interact with older, more old-fashioned people as one develops. I doubt the revelations in the Washington Post article will distort the development of our children. Also, as is often the case with even some of the creakiest of traditions, it's not like there's nothing positive to taken from the Karen rules. The association between conscious, personal rules and self-discipline; the emphasis on adhering to the boundaries established within a relationship; the acknowledgment that all of us are vulnerable to irrational emotions, and shouldn't pretend we're invincible; etc., etc.

For me, this intense reaction to one individual's personal (not particularly uncommon, fairly innocuous) approach to his relationship is kinda fascinating. My approach lies almost on the opposite side of the spectrum to Mike Pence's (although I hope I do a good job implementing some aspects of it, like the consideration and discipline), but I don't mind that there are couples like him and his wife around.

 

[Lyn]

If his rule on conducting himself with his colleagues is that he can only trust himself around one set of staffers and not the others, then we have a problem as that does affect his ability to do his job.

Yet, from the original Hill article that all of this is based on, it is apparent he is not trusting of himself around staffers of either sex. Right after the mention of him not dining alone with women, he goes on to say he frequently turns down offers for drinks with male colleagues as well because he doesn't want to send the wrong message nor end up in uncertain situations.

He seems to be conservative when it comes to social matters with both sexes. Articles just seem to keep skipping over that last part.

It is certainly valid to discuss how this affects his job, but overall I feel people are taking much of this out of context, especially when going so far as to suggest this means he is a potential rapist. He seems to just be wary of various social situations that could lead to trouble, including some with men.

 

[Derwind]

1). This is an exaggeration. In 2002, Mike Pence told The Hill that he doesn't dine alone with women who aren't his wife, nor goes to events featuring alcohol without her; this doesn't necessarily translate into "uncomfortable being alone with a woman in all situations," and in fact, him feeling uncomfortable doesn't have to be the point of the aforementioned rules at all.

Regardless of when he said it, the idea that his life has drastically changed since then is the same bullshit we got with Trump.

People don't change as much as you think, certainly not people who've built a life and career around being religiously fanatic to women and other minorities.

2). This is not how it works. The implication of the 'separation between church and state' principle (which does not have just one interpretation, it should be said) is not that public officials themselves need to be 100% secular in their world views. Religion has had a role in public debate as long as the US has been a thing, and while there is a debate to be had about the precise role religion should have, this "religiously compromised" concept you're presenting is absolutely bizarre, a nonstarter, and doesn't evoke good things. Remember, one of Obama's most famous moments was singing Amazing Grace in a speech. Good luck getting religion out of the decision-making of our public officials, especially the more traditional/conservative ones.

Seperation between church and state cites that it's about not favouring any religion or practices over another. Thus creating a wall legislatively from religion.

What Pence does at home is his own business. No one cares but if it is brought in to his duties governing the country, then it's a problem.

If this is a steadfast rule he possibly brings to the office, it paints all his actions in a light of being compromised.

Just because one religion is broadly represented in the US doesn't mean it should be allowed to affect the law of the land.


Edit; Further more, a decent human being shouldn't have to make elaborate rules for themselves around other people as a sort of protective measure. Either you conduct yourself as a damn adult or you exile yourself from public life.

 

[highrider]

It's probably some religious thing. He is possibly the most uptight looking older guy I've ever seen. Usually you get more idgaf as you age but you can just see the tension in dude's eyes.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Tolerance for intolerance isn't really a valid argument y'all.

 

[Reversed]

VP Frollo.

 

[Days like these...]

I can't stand sanctimonious Christians. I hate how they parade their piousness for the world to see. Fine, he doesn't want to have dinner with other women ok but if its work related he should make an exception.

 

[windz]

Girls are scary okay.

 

[innervision961]

So, for the fact that this administration projects more than AMC, are we to assume that Pence is fuckin behind his wife's back then? I mean SOMEONE has to out Bill Clinton himself since they talked so much trash about Bill's infidelity. I had thought Trumps rapiness was it but here we are.

 

[Yoritomo]

This is standard practice for Mormons

 

[entremet]

Last week I went drinking with six women while my wife was at home. She didn't mind, because this is 2017 and we're not insane people.

Actually Pence could do this. It's the 1:1 situations he avoids.

I am Christian, so I'm familiar with variations of this "rule". I obviously don't follow it. I personally think it's way too dogmatic.

Even looking at the founder of the religion, he had quite of few interactions with women in the Gospels and many times 1:1 only. But the retort is that he wasn't married. Yet it was pretty scandalous in those more conservative times, where rabbis didn't usually associate with women they were not related to.

Kinda ironic looking at it lol.

 

[Puppet Shadow]

1)My approach lies almost on the opposite side of the spectrum to Mike Pence's (although I hope I do a good job implementing some aspects of it, like the consideration and discipline), but I don't mind that there are couples like him and his wife around.

If couple can't trust each other, they really shouldn't be together.

 

[dallow_bg]

This is standard practice for Mormons

Yup.
Missionaries won't even see a female at their house if there's not a male present.

 

[crisdecuba]

No. Because it is straight up discrimination. Period.

People are equal in this country. No one's personal belief should be tolerated if they discriminate against another.

One may practice their faith, but everyone has the right to call them out on discriminating practices of that faith.

Wait what? How was what I said agreeing with discrimination? I straight up argued AGAINST discrimination.

 

[Not]

This is a thing. My religious brother in law said he won't get in an elevator or similarly small space with a woman who isn't his wife (if it's just the two of them).

Be afraid of those Jazebel women types if you can't make decisions for them

It's dehumanization, whether they realize it or not

 

[Condom]

I don't see how this is an issue, seems like a (self-restricting) personal belief.

 

[crisdecuba]

I don't see how this is an issue, seems like a (self-restricting) personal belief.

It's an issue when you apply it in the workplace. For example, it gives men access to you as a superior that women wouldnt get.

 

[EatinOlives]

"I refuse to interact with women unless it's in a sexual capacity" is some 1700s-ass deeply sexist puritanical bullshit.

Pence is a goddamn psycho, as are the people defending this shit.

 

[distantmantra]

I don't see how this is an issue, seems like a (self-restricting) personal belief.

It's sexist and dehumanizing as shit. Cause you know, every single woman wants to have sex with you. That's their only purpose on this planet.

 

[CazTGG]

.

 

[kyser73]

He's practicing a form of asceticism with this behaviour, which is fairly common for lots of conservative religionists. Given that the Abrahamic faiths are all patriarchal in word, form and practice I think the sexism is a given.

I get why it's how they choose to live their lives, but I find it really sad that their outlook dehumanises women and men - reducing what it means to be either to a base level - women as tempting property & men as little more than lustful beasts of the field.

 

[Darksol]

I work in a school where there's maybe three men, myself included. If I followed this ridiculous practice I'd have to spend my days hiding in the broom closet, lest I accidentally seduce someone.

What an arrogant practice to live by: to assume that everyone with a different set of genitals is just existing in your world to tempt you into infidelity.

 

[jellies_two]

So the new defense from The alt-right snowflakes is that what's wrong with refusing to be alone with a woman other than your wife because they can accuse you of sexual assault with nothing more than their own words.
I picked this up from a minor league provacteur Kurt schlichter who if attacked, says "this is what liberals want to do to us" but then writes articles like "bomb until it glows".