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[Dragon]

Forgive my ignorance (I'm legitimately asking for a critical response here), but by saying that man on man violence is different than man on women violence in video games, is there not a judgement of equality here?

Obviously I'm not saying that it's okay to beat up women! I think it's worth taking into account that we're judging this based on real world expectations. Violence in any form in the real world is harrowing. Violence in the video game world (for better or for worse) usually drives the narrative forward.

By acknowledging a difference between man on man and man on women violence in video games, it seems as though defendants are trying to protect women based on what they believe is wrong.

So really, what I'm asking is: are women actually offended by this trophy?

The guy mentioning that there's an ocean of difference is just plain wrong in this instance. We're talking about mythological creatures in a video game. A video game series that awarded players with a QTE of having sex with Aphrodite in the last game. To me that's way more 'misogynistic' than killing a Fury.

Referencing Wikipedia for more about the Furies I came across this gem: "When the Titan Cronus castrated his father Uranus and threw his genitalia into the sea, the Erinyes emerged from the drops of blood, while Aphrodite was born from the crests of seafoam"

Please people put this in fucking context, Greek mythology is fucking absurd and awesome on many levels. This level of inconsistency and blatant disregard for reality is the real problem here.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

That's dumb. The character is obviously gendered.

A female God is nowhere near the same thing as a mortal woman. Look up what a fury is and tell me it should be treated the same as a human female. Especially when its coming at you trying to kill you. Again, you're totally discounting the context of the situation.

Think of it this way. Imagine that you were watching the news and a news story popped up about a man who killed his house cat because it scratched him in the face. You'd probably think of him as a monster. Now imagine you are watching the news and a tiger escaped from your local zoo and attacked a man. In the fight the man had to find a way to kill the tiger. Would you see him as the same monster as the guy who killed his house cat? Probably not. In one siutation a man is fending for his life against a predator far bigger and stronger then him, so you take the context of the situation differently. But they're still both cats at the end of the day, its just that one is far more dangerous so you don't cast the same judgement.

 

[Eidan]

A female God is nowhere near the same thing as a mortal woman. Look up what a fury is and tell me it should be treated the same as a human female. Especially when its coming at you trying to kill you. Again, you're totally discounting the context of the situation.

I'm not discounting anything. I haven't even taken a stance on anything but that your statement that the Fury is not a woman is bullshit, and that I don't see why anyone would care if the name of the achievement was changed.

 

[Artemisia]

So really, what I'm asking is: are women actually offended by this trophy?

No, of course not. Every single person that complained was just looking for a reason to find the phrase 'bros before hos' distasteful. That uppity PC brigade is at it again! Shame on the developers for deciding to change the name!

 

[T.M. MacReady]

This thread is just going in circles now.

Now that the game is out, we should shift the discussion to the fact that its pretty damn good. Forget this sensationalist nonsense.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I'm not discounting anything. I haven't even taken a stance on anything but that your statement that the Fury is not a woman is bullshit, and that I don't see why anyone would care if the name of the achievement was changed.

Women don't have giant wings. Yes it takes the form of a woman, but a fury is not a woman. Just as God is depicted as a male but is not actually a man. If you honestly cannot tell the difference then I don't know
what to tell you.

And people just think its stupid and pointless that people are changing things when

A) Its not actually a woman.

B) It was just a stupid joke.

C) Most people that are offended don't even know why they're offended but are telling other people that they should be offended too.

 

[Jean Valjean]

At least watch a video of the scene and its context before passing judgement. Please.

What the hell? There are people complaining without having watched the video first?!

Video of the scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3L2de3ucLg

 

[Eidan]

Women don't have giant wings. Yes it takes the form of a woman, but a fury is not a woman. Just as God is depicted as a male but is not actually a man. If you honestly cannot tell the difference then I don't know what to tell you.

While watching the first Tropes vs. Women video, did you sit there, shaking your head and grinding your teeth, because she was making a big deal about Krystal's outfit?

"She's not even a woman! She's a fox-person! JESUS!"

 

[Not Spaceghost]

There's an ocean of difference between man-on-man violence and man-on-woman violence. I'm going to stop arguing with you people if you can't even grasp that.

Why don't you just call it what it is, human on god violence. You're the one that is making this into an issue that it clearly isn't.

 

[Tears For Fears]

This new generation of men.....

 

[Forceatowulf]

It's really not, though. Saints Row 3 is cartoonish, jokey and silly as hell. None of those words describe this imagery:

Beat this game yesterday. That woman totally deserved what she got by the way. Every piece of it. Fuck her tears. And that trophy has nothing to do with this scene by the way....

Man, monster, God or Woman, Kratos has never been one to discriminate. Everyone who gets in is way eventually gets the pipe. I've always liked that about him.

And GoW is pretty god damn silly/cartoonish to me, bruh...

 

[StevePharma]

Yeah you seemed really upset when Kratos killed Athena. I remember your posts about that very thing.

Or poor BBW Clotho and her multiple boobies. She was even more woman than most women! The boldest of all misogynistic actions Kratos could do.

Bunch of BBW racists up in this board.

 

[AlimNassor]

Some of you don't seem to understand that it's not the presence of female enemies or their numbers that's the problem. Saints Row, Metal Gear Solid 4, tons of high profiles games had females enemies and that's okay. The problem resides in the depiction of the violence done against these enemies. When a game throws at you women to kill and does so casually without any specific attention or graphical intensity, that's okay. But the picture above of Kratos graphically brutalizing a woman, with a headshot of her crying face, is fucking disturbing and should be disturbing to everyone in their right mind. Whether she's an enemy or she "deserved" it or not is irrelevant.

Why is it a problem because she's a woman? He does the same shit to men and animals. It's sexist and offensive to assume Women are so weak as to always require protection. Women don't need to be protected by strong men. They are plenty capable of fighting and being killed. I see that image and I see another brutal kill scene typical of GoW.

 

[StevePharma]

Why is it a problem because she's a woman? He does the same shit to men and animals. It's sexist and offensive to assume Women are so weak as to always require protection. Women don't need to be protected by strong men. They are plenty capable of fighting and being killed. I see that image and I see another brutal kill scene typical of GoW.

I remembered brutalizing Persephone pretty hard in GoW Chains of Olympus too

looks waaaaay cuter than that stupid Fury.

However nobody cared back then because then it seemed people weren't acting all that high horse about entertainment like they seem to do now.

 

[params7]

I wonder what repercussions this might have in any future GoW titles, now that the spotlight of Feminism/PC is on it. Think we might have seen the last of the sex games.

 

[Larsen B]

However nobody cared back then because then it seemed people weren't acting all that high horse about entertainment like they seem to do now.

That people now critically respond to issues of gender and sexism in games is a good thing, even if you don't like the noise at the moment.

 

[Eidan]

Just a side note, but I'd really love a game where Kratos finally just gets his shit fucked up. Seeing him tear through every mythological character and creature like he's Greek Goku is dull.

 

[StevePharma]

Just a side note, but I'd really love a game where Kratos finally just gets his shit fucked up. Seeing him tear through every mythological character and creature like he's Greek Goku is dull.

He gets fucked up pretty good in GoW 2. He also gets impaled in GoW 1 and dies more than once. Pretty fucked up if you ask me

 

[Grimm Fandango]

What the hell? There are people complaining without having watched the video first?!

Video of the scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3L2de3ucLg

I'm not that surprised at all really. What a lame ass "controversy".

 

[T.M. MacReady]

He gets fucked up pretty good in GoW 2. He also gets impaled in GoW 1 and dies more than once. Pretty fucked up if you ask me

it wont be good enough until he's killed by a woman and the achievement for it is called "Chicks before Dicks".

Only then will equality be achieved.

 

[Darklord]

It's really not, though. Saints Row 3 is cartoonish, jokey and silly as hell. None of those words describe this imagery:

How is that any worse than:

Or

 

[StevePharma]

How is that any worse than:
*awesome fake violence pics*
Or

*power fantasy extreme pics*

It's not. I bet people would think it was awesome if Kratos teamed up with someone like Theseus and the female in question was Ἱππολύτη (Hyppolyte, the Amazonian daughter of Ares).

There are many many women brutalized in GoW. I just remembered Erinys in Ghost of Sparta as well, all the sisters of Fate, Athena, and so on... This one is nothing special

 

[-tetsuo-]

Some of you don't seem to understand that it's not the presence of female enemies or their numbers that's the problem. Saints Row, Metal Gear Solid 4, tons of high profiles games had females enemies and that's okay. The problem resides in the depiction of the violence done against these enemies. When a game throws at you women to kill and does so casually without any specific attention or graphical intensity, that's okay. But the picture above of Kratos graphically brutalizing a woman, with a headshot of her crying face, is fucking disturbing and should be disturbing to everyone in their right mind. Whether she's an enemy or she "deserved" it or not is irrelevant.

I have been trying to tell people this. These women don't deserve all this violence. I see Poseiden crawling away for his life whimpering as Kratos gouges his eyes out? No problem. He is a MAN. Not only can take it, but he deserves it.

 

[StevePharma]

I have been trying to tell people this. These women don't deserve all this violence. I see Poseiden crawling away for his life whimpering as Kratos gouges his eyes out? No problem. He is a MAN. Not only can take it, but he deserves it.

It's getting late here so I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not....

The Erinyes were Furies, Avengers, Punishers, [insert other Marvel name lol]. They deserve it as much as Poseidon.

coming back to my previous post, how would you feel if the woman in question was an Amazon queen or Hyppolyte specifically? Would they not deserve it?

 

[AuthenticM]

How do you guys feel about this scene from God of War 3 ? Does it bother you, make you uncomfortable or are you completely indifferent ?

 

[M.D]

How is that any worse than:


Or

I always wanted to know where did this picture came from? I'm talking about the actual picture and not the scene. It's often used in God of War related articles, but for some reason it looks like shit compared to the actual graphics in GOW3

 

[Diablo Rosso]

I always wanted to know where did this picture came from? I'm talking about the actual picture and not the scene. It's often used in God of War related articles, but for some reason it looks like shit compared to the actual graphics in GOW3

The demo?

 

[M.D]

The demo?

Nope.
I know there was a big improvement in the final build, but the demo did not look like that.

This is an image from the demo from E3 2009

You can clearly see the difference, those models and details are amazing.
That picture is just so weird, it actually annoys me every time I see it lol

 

[SolidSnakex]

How do you guys feel about this scene from God of War 3 ? Does it bother you, make you uncomfortable or are you completely indifferent ?

People have noted that it bothered them just like it bothers them any time Kratos kills someone that's innocent. There was a puzzle in GoW1 where Kratos burns a man alive to complete a puzzle. It's why the demo scene from Ascension stuck out because he actually pushes a person out the way when they're about the be impaled by a spear.

 

[flatearthpandas]

While watching the first Tropes vs. Women video, did you sit there, shaking your head and grinding your teeth, because she was making a big deal about Krystal's outfit?

"She's not even a woman! She's a fox-person! JESUS!"

I finally got around to watching the first Tropes vs. Women video. Can't believe there was such a controversy with that. I thought the video was fair and fairly well made. Unless the controversy was around how irritating her French was, I don't get it.

To the point though, I thought that video had a pretty relevant point for this entire thread right meah.

 

[Eidan]

I finally got around to watching the first Tropes vs. Women video. Can't believe there was such a controversy with that. I thought the video was fair and fairly well made. Unless the controversy was around how irritating her French was, I don't get it.

To the point though, I thought that video had a pretty relevant point for this entire thread right meah.

There really is nothing controversial about it. I think the big reason it faces such a strong backlash is because some people think you say something i sexist, that you're saying the creator and the audience are somehow bad. Which isn't the case at all. That's the only reason I can explain the vitriol that the videos receive.

 

[Lowlander2]

I wonder what repercussions this might have in any future GoW titles, now that the spotlight of Feminism/PC is on it. Think we might have seen the last of the sex games.

GOOD. Those need to go. They're not very respectful or in good taste, and by this point, they just aren't that "exciting" either. The first sex game was laughable, a pure novelty, especially since you never get to see the action. The only slice of eroticism is the audio, which...

Personally, you have to do better than that.

 

[params7]

GOOD. Those need to go. They're not very respectful or in good taste, and by this point, they just aren't that "exciting" either. The first sex game was laughable, a pure novelty, especially since you never get to see the action. The only slice of eroticism is the audio, which...

Personally, you have to do better than that.

lol @ you preaching what is respectful and in good taste through games like God of fucking War. Ripping off guts and faces off Male God's ok, but any No-No to all sex and violence against women. They must be protected! One of the reasons why the whole feminism movement in videogames is a joke overall.

 

[Lowlander2]

lol @ you preaching what is respectful and in good taste through games like God of fucking War. Ripping off guts and faces off Male God's ok, but any No-No to all sex and violence against women. They must be protected! One of the reasons why the whole feminism movement in videogames is a joke overall.

You misunderstand. Either sex or violence against women is fine in context. In hindsight, this trophy-changing business is silly, and I had no problem fighting Medusas and harpies and the Sisters of Fate and even Athena or whoever. Because, you see, Kratos is a natural born killer, and for better or worse, he rarely discriminates against his targets.

Context is everything. The sex minigames fall in this regard. The first one was really shoehorned and felt like it only served novelty purposes. Tell me: were you actually turned on when you got to play a QTE to make a vase fall over? By now, the sex minigames just feel like rudimentary and ham-fisted inclusions made only to keep the status quo. They're not funny, they're not hot, they have no relevance to the plot. At this point, it feels like we're keeping them around...just so we can keep them around.

Sex, in any work, is usually used to mark a big turning point in two characters' relationships, or even just to develop one character, but if you're not using it for that, you should make damn sure that it's actually arousing. The ones in God of War are neither. Their allure has since faded. I'd rather just see more choppy-stabby action by this point.

And, well, not even that, given how long in the tooth this series has become.

 

[params7]

You misunderstand. Either sex or violence against women is fine in context. In hindsight, this trophy-changing business is silly, and I had no problem fighting Medusas and harpies and the Sisters of Fate and even Athena or whoever. Because, you see, Kratos is a natural born killer, and for better or worse, he rarely discriminates against his targets.

Context is everything. The sex minigames fall in this regard. The first one was really shoehorned and felt like it only served novelty purposes. Tell me: were you actually turned on when you got to play a QTE to make a vase fall over? By now, the sex minigames just feel like rudimentary and ham-fisted inclusions made only to keep the status quo. They're not funny, they're not hot, they have no relevance to the plot. At this point, it feels like we're keeping them around...just so we can keep them around.

Sex, in any work, is usually used to mark a big turning point in two characters' relationships, or even just to develop one character, but if you're not using it for that, you should make damn sure that it's actually arousing. The ones in God of War are neither. Their allure has since faded. I'd rather just see more choppy-stabby action by this point.

And, well, not even that, given how long in the tooth this series has become.

Well pretty much agree with all that. The sex games did feel tacked on, my point was that though if done right, where its actually somewhat arousing with good acting/direction, shouldn't feel out of place or 'disrespectful' in franchises like GoW. Whether it stems from personal relationships, orgies or fetishes. Game is rated M so only adults should be playing it anyways.

 

[Radec]

Wow, this is still going on?

 

[Zoe]

Wow, I had only heard about this in passing. I didn't know that people were flat out wrong about the scene.

Have any journalists owned up to the mistake?

 

[Patapwn]

As someone who has actually played and beat the game, the criticism makes no sense. The game gives full context for why the fury is a complete fucking douche that deserves to die in horrible ways. Hell, the character deserved much worse actually. More sympathetic characters have received a worse beating in past games, but I guess the fact that this particular one has a feminine body makes it not okay. For people holding the banner of 'dats sexism!!1' it's amazing how their position imploded into itself leaving them exposed as the real sexists.