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[spanks]

This odd narrative of how MS is scared to add online destruction to the single player portion is a silly excuse. There are technical reasons, but there's no outcry at MS adding destruction to Crackdown SP, just like people aren't upset Drivatars appear in Forza while racing in SP.

It was probably that, combined with the design difficulties of keeping classic agility orbs. But there are a lot of ways around that, and it really shouldn't be taking precedent over the core gameplay, which is the missions (i.e. killing dudes). For another example, perhaps destruction in a building could cause orbs to deactivate, so that you have to wait until a building is repaired to get the orb.

I mean, if Red Faction Guerrilla could do it 8 years ago, with no cloud computing and 4% (yes, 1/24!) of the RAM, sure C3 could at least try. Even if they just make it so SOME of the buildings are destructible, it could add so much to the sandbox. And again, extremely unique. Without that aspect, Crackdown 3 is just another over-the-top open world game. Like Saints Row or Agents of Mayhem, but with worse graphics and less charm. Seems like a waste to have that tech, but only use it for multiplayer.

 

[Poodlestrike]

People have some weird expectations for this game. Other than the cloud destruction it was never gonna be a technical showcase.

I thought gameplay was the big thing?

 

[Ricky_R]

From what gaf has become, it's better to stay out of any thread that isn't a PlayStation exclusive.

SONYGAF ALERT!!!

 

[Kaako]

It was probably that, combined with the design difficulties of keeping classic agility orbs. But there are a lot of ways around that, and it really shouldn't be taking precedent over the core gameplay, which is the missions (i.e. killing dudes). For another example, perhaps destruction in a building could cause orbs to deactivate, so that you have to wait until a building is repaired to get the orb.

I mean, if Red Faction Guerrilla could do it 8 years ago, with no cloud computing and 4% (yes, 1/24!) of the RAM, sure C3 could at least try. Even if they just make it so SOME of the buildings are destructible, it could add so much to the sandbox. And again, extremely unique. Without that aspect, Crackdown 3 is just another over-the-top open world game. Like Saints Row or Agents of Mayhem, but with worse graphics and less charm. Seems like a waste to have that tech, but only use it for multiplayer.

I really think that shoehorning that MS Azure platform & the power of the cloud™ royally fucked things up and made development an absolute mess. Also too many cooks in the kitchen doesn't help either. All speculation of course.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

People have some weird expectations for this game. Other than the cloud destruction it was never gonna be a technical showcase.

I thought gameplay was the big thing?

I don't think anyone was expecting a visual showcase but I don't think it's unreasonable to have expected a little more than this? The animations, lighting, textures and so on, we can't expect more there because it's celshaded and Crackdown? Doesn't make sense to me.

Besides, this is supposed to be one of their exclusive releases for winter after only Halo Wars 2 released in Feb, considering how quiet they have been with first party and this game in particular, I feel once again disappointed in them.

If it nails the gameplay and gets rave reviews in the press, I would love that, don't like criticising devs and their games but I ain't going to praise it if I don't feel it either.

 

[EvB]

I mean, if Red Faction Guerrilla could do it 8 years ago, with no cloud computing and 4% (yes, 1/24!) of the RAM, sure C3 could at least try. Even if they just make it so SOME of the buildings are destructible, it could add so much to the sandbox. .

In all fairness, they have't ruled that out.
When they said that the city was destructible AND in multiplayer only back in 2015 thy did also say that there would be some kind of level of destruction in the campaign also, but not in the way they have shown.
Hulk Ultimate Destruction allowed you to level any skyscraper, they just sunk into the ground.

I would expect something a bit more set-piecey and perhaps scripted, in the same way that the big buildings in BF4 were.

Fun Fact, The Design Director for Crackdown was the gameplay designer for Red Faction.

 

[Calabi]

Looks like Saints Row 4 to me, I can jump around collecting orbs and destroy things in a pretty similar way in that too. I've never played the original so dont really understand what so unique and great about this, but it doesnt look that great to me.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

People have some weird expectations for this game. Other than the cloud destruction it was never gonna be a technical showcase.

I thought gameplay was the big thing?

People want Uncharted animations when Crackdown is all about being a video game ass video game with quick, snappy animations to continue the flow of its over-the-top gameplay.

 

[Ehker]

People want Uncharted animations when Crackdown is all about being a video game ass video game with quick, snappy animations to continue the flow of its over-the-top gameplay.

There's some middle ground between Uncharted and this guy carrying a car with a fixed upperbody:

 

[LukasTaves]

My point was that they were touting it though, that the destruction is what they chose to show, like ALL they chose to show...years after announcement. Terrible PR if nothing else, even if they did say it was mp only.

The first Crackdown didn't even have multiplayer (beyond co-op), so showing something exclusive to multiplayer, and having it be way more awesome than anything in the actual single player is, to me, baffling.

I don't think so because when the showed the destruction it was even announced it would launch the multiplayer first with the SP coming at a later date.

Then they realized it wouldn't be a good call to release the game in pieces and decided to hold the MP to launch alongside the campaign.

 

[EvB]

Looks like Saints Row 4 to me, I can jump around collecting orbs and destroy things in a pretty similar way in that too. I've never played the original so dont really understand what so unique and great about this, but it doesnt look that great to me.

Saints Row 4 was a Pastiche of Crackdown and Prototype.
It was more Prototype than Crackdown, but the Orbs were very clearly a reference to Crackdown. Lots of games borrowed the same mechanic, so if you had never played the original game, it may have passed you by.

It was a really influential game, it practically invented the formula for fun achievements too. It was one of the first online titles to have drop in/drop out co op as well. It hit a lot of checkpoints that even modern games fail on.

 

[Dehnus]

At least use a bigger Crackdown explosion.

https://youtu.be/ZAGWF8ReWus

You can't deny Crackdown 3 looks better really that's a given. I think it looks pretty cool but the more I watch, feel like I don't want to play something so similar to old Crackdown even though that was 10 years ago. It's too close and not enough innovation but if there is more to show and it's a blast through co-op, I would still be interested.

"It is just the same in looks! And that is bad!"

"Now it is too similar and that is bad!"

Yup, this game can't please them anyway, so might as well give up. Let's just call it a day, slam a SCE brand name on it, and release it on PS4. Then suddenly you'll love it.

Still, won't give me my spitscreen multiplayer, so I couldn't give a rats arse about it either way.

 

[PanicFreak]

Looks fine to me

:shrug:

 

[Head.spawn]

There's some middle ground between Uncharted and this guy carrying a car with a fixed upperbody:

Yeah, it looks really stiff. Like someone is posing a toy doll that has limited dexterity range or something.

The old MP footages animation doesn't look as awkward as this current SP stuff.

 

[Brad Grenz]

What are the odds of Crackdown multiplayer looking anything like this? I'm super dubious, considering it launches in a few months and we've seen nothing.

Zero. That footage was prerendered.

Crackdown is a platformer. Destroying all the buildings makes no sense. You're supposed to climb them.

Then maybe they shouldn't have set from the start out to build the game completely around leveling the city.

 

[ResoRai]

Zero. That footage was prerendered.

Nah
https://youtu.be/EWANLy9TjRc

Then maybe they shouldn't have set from the start out to build the game completely around leveling the city.

They didn't, only multiplayer was expected to. Crackdown is about platforming to collect orbs and saving the city. You cant go through the story mode doing that if youre literally tearing the city down. A separate chaotic multiplayer portion though? Sure, and that was expected.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

There's some middle ground between Uncharted and this guy carrying a car with a fixed upperbody:

Yeah that's definitely fair, the animations could have been better.

 

[Ehker]

Nah
https://youtu.be/EWANLy9TjRc

Watching this clip again makes me hyped to see an update. I guess gamescom.

 

[ResoRai]

Watching this clip again makes me hyped to see an update. I guess gamescom.

Yeah same. Could be a ton of fun.

Also someone help me out here. What is it about the art style that makes it look so off? Re-watching the pre-alpha, I wouldn't say the pre-alpha looks better, but it's a bit more pleasing visually imo. Between the two versions, it's the textures and the geometry, right?

It's really bugging me because I see the same thing a bit in something I've been working on. I modeled a small low poly stadium, (which actually looks decent in Blender), but less so in Unreal Engine 4. But I've been using a cel-shade style (not like Crackdown, closer to BOTW), and when applied to the model it looks nice, better, but still kind of "low quality". A lack of detail in the model I guess? Textures not working well with the cel-shaded look?

 

[ughkingdom]

There's some middle ground between Uncharted and this guy carrying a car with a fixed upperbody:

lmao

I'm all for Crackdown 3 after seeing that footage, because I absolutely loved the whole entire shit out of the first game and played it to death. 3 looks like a proper continuation of that as opposed to the grim-dark shrug fart of a game Crackdown 2 was. It definitely could be innovating more, but the weapons look great, the city looks more fun and unique to jump around in, and the movement seems to have a nice little boost with the extra double jump/boost thing.

But yeah it would be a little nice if the animation wasn't quite that stiff and...last gen, AA lookin.

 

[00ich]

Yeah same. Could be a ton of fun.

Also someone help me out here. What is it about the art style that makes it look so off? Re-watching the pre-alpha, I wouldn't say the pre-alpha looks better, but it's a bit more pleasing visually imo. Between the two versions, it's the textures and the geometry, right?

It's really bugging me because I see the same thing a bit in something I've been working on. I modeled a small low poly stadium, (which actually looks decent in Blender), but less so in Unreal Engine 4. But I've been using a cel-shade style (not like Crackdown, closer to BOTW), and when applied to the model it looks nice, better, but still kind of "low quality". A lack of detail in the model I guess? Textures not working well with the cel-shaded look?

My guess is that you eliminate the finer lighting shades and along with it the more nuanced results of modern shader stuff like ambient occlusion or subsurface scattering and hints of convex shapes in the 2D image.

 

[TDonk]

Looks like Saints Row 4 to me, I can jump around collecting orbs and destroy things in a pretty similar way in that too. I've never played the original so dont really understand what so unique and great about this, but it doesnt look that great to me.

Guess which game came first and happens to be vastly superior?

 

[leeh]

Zero. That footage was prerendered.

I dont know where you got that from, but it certainly wasn't.

 

[StromboliProtocol]

People have some weird expectations for this game. Other than the cloud destruction it was never gonna be a technical showcase.

I thought gameplay was the big thing?

LOL

 

[cuate]

Looks meh. needs some damage models. it's too static and boring.

 

[oti]

There's some middle ground between Uncharted and this guy carrying a car with a fixed upperbody:

This animation looks pretty funny to me. In a good way.

 

[00ich]

Guess which game came first and happens to be vastly superior?

That's a hard one.
I have: first -> Crackdown and vastly superior -> Saints Row 4

This animation looks pretty funny to me. In a good way.

60$ funny?
If the multiplayer isn't truly exceptional Crackdown 3 could benefit from a lower price.

 

[Kikorin]

Worst thing to me is how much static everything looks. I understand that for design purpose (and to avoid the always online situation) they could not let you destroy the entire city, but this is incredibly static. Also in GTA or other open world you can not destroy everything, but there are a lot of things that breaks and physically fly everywhere that make all a lot more fun to see.

 

[Black Mantis]

I really think that shoehorning that MS Azure platform & the power of the cloud™ royally fucked things up and made development an absolute mess. Also too many cooks in the kitchen doesn't help either. All speculation of course.

Given that the cloud tech is the reason the game exists in the first place, I doubt it was shoe-horned in.

 

[Ushay]

I sort of agree. Build it up for the xbox,

I can't help but feel that if this bombs, they will Bury the franchise.

Bit controversial of me to say this, but given the amount of time it's been in development it should be put on ice if it doesn't do well.

It looks like a lot of fun despite the flaws it shows. My main gripe is the stiff/unfluid animations.

 

[Jeff Freecss]

Wow another innocent Xbox thread turn into Microsoft bashing thread!

Cloud is business greedy evil plan?

I really think that shoehorning that MS Azure platform & the power of the cloud™ royally fucked things up and made development an absolute mess. Also too many cooks in the kitchen doesn't help either. All speculation of course.

CHECK

Microsoft can't keep up?

i cant believe this game is running on xbox one x . if anything it looks like running on xbox 360. been in development for god knows how long and it still look like shit.

MS are really way behind in terms of gaming software development. kinda ironic for a software giant :/

CHECK

Microsoft is misleading consumers and therefore anti-consumer?

My point was that they were touting it though, that the destruction is what they chose to show, like ALL they chose to show...years after announcement. Terrible PR if nothing else, even if they did say it was mp only.

The first Crackdown didn't even have multiplayer (beyond co-op), so showing something exclusive to multiplayer, and having it be way more awesome than anything in the actual single player is, to me, baffling.

CHECK CHECK

The elusive balance of tech progress verses offline fundamentalist, casual vs pro gamers that Microsoft first party developer should have nailed because GAF has the correct answer 20 billion years ago?

To anyone wondering, I was at E3 and talked with the developers and I asked them some pretty hard questions like why the game took so long and why they took out pacific city like the original trailer showed. I also asked about the destruction in single player and the guys told me that they decided not to have that destruction in single player because the destruction needs the power of microsoft's cloud and would require the game to be always online. The developer said they didn't want to make the game always online but personally, I wouldn't mind the game being always online if it guaranteed me the destruction that they showed and I don't think other people would mind either so I feel like that is an excuse.

FYI: I played the E3 demo twice and the second time, I actually told one of the developers that they watered down the game for casuals and the one guy agreed with me. He said the fall damage was too low and that they need more complicated platforming/traversal sections because they are too easy currently. Also, I told him the game felt watered down because things like traversal were way to easy. For the E3 demo, you basically had to hold the A button down and use the analog stick to climb buildings. It definitely took the some of the challenge of traversal that the first and second crackdown had.

CHECK CHECK CHECK

Joke aside, this looks fun. A bit like Sunset Overdrive, but I think SO is more visually-pleasing. I still think the multiplayer make or break this game though. The tech is there. We just have to see how realized is it game wise.Honestly, this looks fun. A bit like Sunset Overdrive, but I think SO is more visually-pleasing. I still think the multiplayer make or break this game though. The tech is there. We just have to see how realized is it game wise.

 

[Mediking]

Ahhh... good ol' Radbrad.

 

[nOoblet16]

The good ol youtuber limited vocabulary.

As for the game, looks a little rough to me..........

"I can't tell if it's 60 frames or not", it's not.

He said he's been making gaming videos since a year before he first game's launch...that'd be 2006. He has been professionally doing this for over a decade and can't tell the difference between 30 or 60

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Crackdown was a good game in 2007 but when Crackdown 3 is out 10 years later, on more powerful hardware, with only slightly better graphics, basic character animations and only small changes to gameplay, it's a little disappointing.

It's a shame they didn't do more with the single player, even a cut down version of the destruction would have been better than non at all, as it makes the game look very basic without it. I'm guessing most of the focus is on the MP and the destruction but it's strange they still haven't shown it off properly, this close to release. Not really a positive sign, if that really is the big focus of the game.

I loved the first game and want to love this one too but so far Microsoft are not doing much to make me get excited for the game.

 

[Always-honest]

Crackdown was a good game in 2007 but when Crackdown 3 is out 10 years later, on more powerful hardware, with only slightly better graphics, basic character animations and only small changes to gameplay, it's a little disappointing.

It's a shame they didn't do more with the single player, even a cut down version of the destruction would have been better than non at all, as it makes the game look very basic without it. I'm guessing most of the focus is on the MP and the destruction but it's strange they still haven't shown it off properly, this close to release. Not really a positive sign, if that really is the big focus of the game.

I loved the first game and want to love this one too but so far Microsoft are not doing much to make me get excited for the game.

Just wait for the fucking game.... Decide then. You act like the game is out already.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Just wait for the fucking game.... Decide then. You act like the game is out already.

So being disappointed with what's been shown (or lack of it) is acting like the game is out ? Don't talk bollocks.

The marketing on this game is shit so far, it would be nice to know more about the game this close to release but when the one big feature (destruction) that sets it apart from other, similar games like Saints Row or Agents of Mayhem is still a no show, this close to launch, it doesn't give me confidence in the game.

Why so defensive though ? If you think it looks fantastic, that's cool but for me, I was hoping for a bit more.

 

[m23]

Can't wait to play this finally, it looks rough visually but the gameplay is what I've loved about crackdown. Doesn't look like it'll disappoint in that regard.

 

[Family Fry]

He said he's been making gaming videos since a year before he first game's launch...that'd be 2006. He has been professionally doing this for over a decade and can't tell the difference between 30 or 60

Oh didn't you know..?
The human eye can only see 24fps.

They already said it was 30fps, he's been making videos for 10 years but can't do some research before making a video.

 

[whatevermort]

Can't wait to play this finally, it looks rough visually but the gameplay is what I've loved about crackdown. Doesn't look like it'll disappoint in that regard.

Yup. Totally agree. The internet: full of gamers who claim that gameplay is the most important thing, until you present them with a thing that proves that they don't think gameplay is the most important thing.

 

[AmuroChan]

People have some weird expectations for this game. Other than the cloud destruction it was never gonna be a technical showcase.

I thought gameplay was the big thing?

It's not that surprising really. MS didn't do themselves any favor by launching this day and date with their new premium 4K console. So naturally people are going to associate one with the other. It also doesn't help that the #1 Xbox podcast out there has been talking up this game for months and hyping it to be a technical showcase for the Scorpio.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

It's not that surprising really. MS didn't do themselves any favor by launching this day and date with their new premium 4K console. So naturally people are going to associate one with the other. It also doesn't help that the #1 Xbox podcast out there has been talking up this game for months and hyping it to be a technical showcase for the Scorpio.

What podcast is that?

 

[RedFury]

Should have just gave it to Insomniac. I truly believe the would had done the property justices after SO. SO visually liked better in ever way imo, and they got the traversal down.

 

[AmuroChan]

What podcast is that?

Podcast Unlocked. I don't know for a fact if they are #1 or not, but they proclaim to be in the intro of each episode. Apparently they're #1 and Major Nelson's podcast is #2 based on iTunes charts.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

There's some middle ground between Uncharted and this guy carrying a car with a fixed upperbody:

Yeah. I think a lot of the animations can be chalked up to responsive control priority over animation, but that doesn't excuse stuff like this.

 

[hawk2025]

A 30fps-targetting game doesn't get to pull the "we were prioritizing responsive controls", sorry.

 

[RedFury]

A 30fps-targetting game doesn't get to pull the "we were prioritizing responsive controls", sorry.

What? It's 30fps? That's news to me. Doesn't bother me but yeah that makes the argument pointless.

 

[LordBaztion]

Should have just gave it to Insomniac. I truly believe the would had done the property justices after SO. SO visually liked better in ever way imo, and they got the traversal down.

I think they should have done Sunset 2 instead and giving them the cloud tech to enhance the mp.

I hope people are not expecting mp to look the same as that gamescon demo, they clearly said that it had increased destruction for demo purposes.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

A 30fps-targetting game doesn't get to pull the "we were prioritizing responsive controls", sorry.

You can have an arcadey game that prioritizes responsive control over animation priority that's 30fps. Frame rate is obviously a big factor, but it's not the be all end all in the conversation.

 

[Always-honest]

So being disappointed with what's been shown (or lack of it) is acting like the game is out ? Don't talk bollocks.

The marketing on this game is shit so far, it would be nice to know more about the game this close to release but when the one big feature (destruction) that sets it apart from other, similar games like Saints Row or Agents of Mayhem is still a no show, this close to launch, it doesn't give me confidence in the game.

Why so defensive though ? If you think it looks fantastic, that's cool but for me, I was hoping for a bit more.

It looks a lot like Crackdown 1 and that was a lot of fun.
I think a lot of people in this thread were practically born yesterday and have never played that game. The hate gets contagious and people think they have to ride that train.
From the people that hate what they see now, i think at least 50% are just echoing others.

The destruction is probably what will kill this game. If it's not what they promised it will be the only topic. That's totally on them though. But the rest of the game might still be a shitload of fun.

 

[blakep267]

Should have just gave it to Insomniac. I truly believe the would had done the property justices after SO. SO visually liked better in ever way imo, and they got the traversal down.

Sunset overdrive wasn't even out when this was announced