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[Paches]

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/11/14/user-interfarce-skyrims-silly-choices/

I was thinking about purchasing Skyrim recently, but have been holding off to see impressions from real people and see if there are any game breaking bugs or issues with the PC edition. A couple days had gone by and then I saw this article on RPS about the horrid UI. From the description, it sounds as if the UI was designed around using the gamepad and then ported directly over to the PC without much thought given besides remapping bindings. I have also heard people complaining about extremely poor mouse support in UI and game.

I know this trend has been going on for much longer for us PC gamers than just this instance, but I am starting to get real irritated when a huge PC franchise such as TES lacks basic UI fundamentals such as being able to use the mouse. I know the mod community for this particular franchise is very vibrant and there will probably be some kind of fix from them or perhaps even Bethesda themselves, but releasing it like this tells me that they don't really care all that much about the PC community (Not to mention the 10% quote from Howard himself, which has essentially proven to be false from extrapolated Steam data).

Are any of my fellow PC brethren becoming more uncomfortable with this fact we now have to live with?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

1. Open up spell list
2. Add spell to favorites
3. Open up favorite list
4. Press hotkey while selecting a spell from the favorites list
5. Use hotkey


WHY CAN'T I JUST HOTKEY THEM FROM THE SPELL LIST DIRECTLY? AND WHY CAN'T I USE 9 AND 0 AS HOTKEYS?

 

[djplaeskool]

Silly? Maybe, but I adjusted to it within a half hour and it hasn't been a bother beyond that.

 

[Orayn]

My roommate picked up Skyrim for PC and gave me a chance to play through the first few hours when he was at class. The UI does feel like it was made for consoles but it's really fast and really good. Even if it takes some time to get used to it, navigating primarily with WASD is very quick. I also found Skyrim's UI to be a lot cleaner, better organized, and more efficient than any mod I ever tried for Oblivion.

EDIT: The favorites list on PC should really have shortcuts on 0-9, though. That's pretty much my only gripe.

 

[No_Style]

I'll be using a gamepad, so I guess I don't feel that way. If there was no gamepad option, I'll would a stink.

 

[Durante]

The stock UI is much better than the Oblivion stock UI. It's not as good as fully modded Oblivion but it will get there (or maybe even better, since it's starting from a better base)

My biggest problem with it is only having 8 quickslots for spells, but I think you get even less than that on consoles (?)

 

[Thoraxes]

Uncomfortable? Yes.
I just kinda learned to deal with it (playing XI on PC helped ease the pain with this), but I have faith that modders will save us in the end from it.

Also I really hated the character creator because of the controls. It was a 5 minute process that took me like 30 minutes.

Also with spell bindings, why can't I just right-click over the spell I want to be assigned to my RMB and vice-versa with the left-mouse button?

Overall, I like the layout, and it's easy to navigate with keyboard, but I would really like to use my mouse more for assigning things. Hell, a radial menu for middle-clicking would be awesome for your 1-9 bindings.

EDIT: The favorites list on PC should really have shortcuts on 0-9, though. That's pretty much my only gripe.

You can do this just by pressing the number over whatever spell/item it is you want to bind while in the favorites menu. I don't know if this is by default or if I changed something in the settings though. In order to choose what magic I want in what hand, I have to do double of it using keybindings, and then choose my alternate, instead of just being able to choose.

 

[big_z]

the main problem i have with skyrim is that my mouse moves ass slow in the menus but i can turn quickly in game.

 

[epmode]

A thread for this exact article already exists.

edit: I guess I'm mistaken. Even so, here's what I was thinking of: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=451739

 

[Plasma]

I started playing it on a keyboard and mouse but before the whole tutorial/introduction area was over I had to plug in a 360 controller.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

The UI just isn't great for a PC game. I've selected the wrong thing by accident too many times and it's just slow to use in general. But it isn't so bad that it ruins the game for you unless you encounter some sort of princess and pea type scenario.

 

[Durante]

Also with spell bindings, why can't I just right-click over the spell I want to be assigned to my RMB and vice-versa with the left-mouse button?

Overall, I like the layout, and it's easy to navigate with keyboard, but I would really like to use my mouse more for assigning things. Hell, a radial menu for middle-clicking would be awesome for your 1-9 bindings.

Re-assign LMB and RMB? First thing I did.

 

[Rodney McKay]

It's fine. I only don't like the Skills menu. I know they were going for an artsy constellation based thing, but it's hard to select skills that are off at angles. I end up ping-ponging around until I finally get to the one I wanted.

I use a 360 controller, so I don't have any keyboard related experience with this game.

 

[LuchaShaq]

I bought it on pc but its great on a gamepad but I guess master race fanboy anger works better if directed at consoles.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Also with spell bindings, why can't I just right-click over the spell I want to be assigned to my RMB and vice-versa with the left-mouse button?

You can? I reassigned LMB to be left hand and RMB to be right hand, but you still assign left and right buttons with left and right click.

TBH what annoys me is how difficult it is to select spells I want if they aren't hotkeyed directly. You mention radial menus, and they would have been SUPER useful for the favorites list instead of the utterly terrible scrolling list they gave me.

 

[hamchan]

They probably don't care about the PC community and they definitely don't care about the PS3 community. So that leaves one community they do care about, the ones getting the exclusive DLC for a month.

 

[epmode]

Re-assign LMB and RMB? First thing I did.

This single change made the keyboard and mouse controls SO MUCH BETTER I can't imagine why they didn't make this the default bind.

Wait, yes I can: Bethesda didn't give much through to keyboard and mouse control.

 

[Orayn]

I bought it on pc but its great on a gamepad but I guess master race fanboy anger works better if directed at consoles.

People are annoyed because the UI has iffy mouse support, and the primary input device on PC is *gasp* the mouse. There's nothing fanboyish about that.

 

[chickdigger802]

I'll be using a gamepad, so I guess I don't feel that way. If there was no gamepad option, I'll would a stink.

Yeah...

Mass Effect 2, console game with no gamepad support! Can't even use mouse wheel to scroll through the codex...

 

[Sinatar]

EDIT: The favorites list on PC should really have shortcuts on 0-9, though. That's pretty much my only gripe.

You can assign your favorites to numbers, just highlight it and hit the number you want to assign it to.

 

[krzy123]

most modern pc ui screens are sad, especially when you look at Morrowinds. Your stats/inventory/map/spells all on a single screen. Plus you can tile/resize them as you like.

 

[Tain]

The stock UI is much better than the Oblivion stock UI.

That is for damn sure. It could definitely be better, but I like it more than I ever did Fallout NV's or Oblivion's.

 

[Technosteve]

I don't have a problem with the UI, It's pretty easy to switch in and out. Is it perfect? Nope.

 

[DTKT]

The whole "see the item in 3D" is just a bad idea.

 

[Orayn]

They probably don't care about the PC community and they definitely don't care about the PS3 community. So that leaves one community they do care about, the ones getting the exclusive DLC for a month.

If they didn't care, we wouldn't be getting a construction kit.

You can assign your favorites to numbers, just highlight it and hit the number you want to assign it to.

Seriously? Jesus.

 

[JaxJag]

It seems the "Master Race" spends more time complaining about games than playing them.

 

[Durante]

You can assign your favorites to numbers, just highlight it and hit the number you want to assign it to.

I think his problem is that it only goes up to 8. I agree, though ideally I'd want shift+(0-9) as well. Too many useful spells and I hate pausing in battle to select a different one.

 

[dimb]

I found it to be pretty unusable and finicky. Helped cement my decision to just plug a controller in.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Seriously? Jesus.

As I said. You have to assign items to favorites BEFORE you can hotkey them, for some bizarro reason. Also, the 9 and 0 keys are NOT available, you get 1 through 8 only.

 

[NBtoaster]

most modern pc ui screens are sad, especially when you look at Morrowinds. Your stats/inventory/map/spells all on a single screen. Plus you can tile/resize them as you like.

http://pc-rpg.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/morrowind-interface.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Morrowind had a terrible UI.

 

[epmode]

It seems the "Master Race" spends more time complaining about games than playing them.

This is a videogame discussion forum, friend.

That is for damn sure. It could definitely be better, but I like it more than I ever did Fallout NV's or Oblivion's.

It really is a big improvement which is why I'm so surprised to see all of these complaints. I expected far worse.

 

[Branduil]

Wait, what do LMB and RMB do by default in the PC version?

 

[Broder Salsa]

You can assign your favorites to numbers, just highlight it and hit the number you want to assign it to.

Hmmm this would have been nice to have known from the beginning. Thanks.

 

[Mrbob]

The UI was developed specifically for the 360 controller. I gave up using the key/mouse for my wired 360 controller, and it works near flawlessly. Everything, and I mean everything in the game has been adapted with the 360 controller in mind.

Shame Bethesda couldn't take the time to offer a proper keyboard/mouse interface. Something proper could be there if they put in any effort towards it.

 

[Orayn]

It seems the "Master Race" spends more time complaining about games than playing them.

Come the fuck on, man. You wouldn't like it if a console game had a UI that was mostly based around moving a cursor with the right analog stick, right? Well, some people using mouse/keyboard don't like it when their main input device, the mouse, is of limited use. That said, I loved Skyrim's UI once I adjusted to navigating with WASD.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

I don't have a problem with the UI, It's pretty easy to switch in and out. Is it perfect? Nope.

Navigating the perk trees with a mouse is an exercise in frustration. I was very happy when I realized I could navigate it with WASD (but confused as to why the arrow keys didn't work, which is what I tried first).

Wait, what do LMB and RMB do by default in the PC version?

Left mouse - right hand
Right mouse - left hand

 

[Durante]

Wait, what do LMB and RMB do by default in the PC version?

LMB is the spell in your right hand and RMB in your left. It makes a (very limited) amount of sense when you thin about it (Right = primary = LMB), but I changed it around 3 seconds into the game.

 

[Zeliard]

There are plenty of good points in there but the hyperbole is a bit much.

The mouse-clicking is the worst part. It's incredibly unresponsive and you never quite know if what you're clicking on will register.

 

[Plasma]

It seems the "Master Race" spends more time complaining about games than playing them.

Steam stats begs to differ.

 

[FStop7]

I think the interface is pretty good on PC with the 360 controller. My only beef is the poor inventory management.

 

[Thoraxes]

Re-assign LMB and RMB? First thing I did.

You can? I reassigned LMB to be left hand and RMB to be right hand, but you still assign left and right buttons with left and right click.

TBH what annoys me is how difficult it is to select spells I want if they aren't hotkeyed directly. You mention radial menus, and they would have been SUPER useful for the favorites list instead of the utterly terrible scrolling list they gave me.

My problem is that with spells, I have to dual-equip the magic in both hands in order to change my offhand. I can't just change my offhand spell easily.

 

[Alucrid]

It takes a bit of getting used but once you have it and know how to hotkey stuff and what not it's not that bad.

 

[Durante]

The UI was developed specifically for the 360 controller. I gave up using the key/mouse for my wired 360 controller, and it works near flawlessly. Everything, and I mean everything in the game has been adapted with the 360 controller in mind.

Is it true that you only get 2 quick slots on a controller though? Because then I don't see how you could play a mage effectively without pausing all the time.

My problem is that with spells, I have to dual-equip the magic in both hands in order to change my offhand. I can't just change my offhand spell easily.

I actually like the way it works, it's very easy to arrange what you want once you get used to it by just quickly hitting the hotkey twice for dual casting. Or hitting the one you want in your off hand twice and then the one for your main hand. Takes half a second or less once you're used to it.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

There are plenty of good points in there but the hyperbole is a bit much.

The mouse-clicking is the worst part. It's incredibly unresponsive and you never quite know if what you're clicking on will register.

The worst is in dialogue menus. What you click on isn't what gets selected, it's whatever is highlighted in the dialogue scroll list. I've selected the wrong option many times so far.

My problem is that with spells, I have to dual-equip the magic in both hands in order to change my offhand. I can't just change my offhand spell easily.

Yeah that is quite annoying. Not sure how they could fix that.

 

[epmode]

Is it true that you only get 2 quick slots on a controller though? Because then I don't see how you could play a mage effectively without pausing all the time.

Yes it's true and you're absolutely right. That's what made me go back to keyboard controls after trying the pad for a while. 9 hotkeys > *

The worst is in dialogue menus. What you click on isn't what gets selected, it's whatever is highlighted in the dialogue scroll list. I've selected the wrong option many times so far.

And sometimes what's highlighted isn't spoken. I run into this if I use the mousewheel to choose dialogue instead of a keyboard. Intermittent problem.

 

[hamchan]

If they didn't care, we wouldn't be getting a construction kit.

Seriously? Jesus.

Well I agree that giving modding tools is some sort of caring. Just not enough to fix any of the game's problems themselves because they know the community will do everything anyways, why bother putting in effort?

 

[Yeef]

Left mouse - right hand
Right mouse - left hand

That seems counter-intuitive.

 

[Paches]

In response to "just plug a 360 controller in", that really isn't that great of an argument or defense of the UI. I like the precision of the mouse and the large of amount of hotkeys the keyboard provides. I am still on the fence on whether or not I want to get this.

Note: I don't own a 360 controller.

 

[~Kinggi~]

For a console rpg interface it is excellent and very quick to navigate which i love, but it definitely could be better for PC.

 

[Orayn]

Well I agree that giving modding tools is some sort of caring. Just not enough to fix any of the game's problems themselves because they know the community will do everything anyways, why bother putting in effort?

Bethesda has never been very good at interfaces, simple as that. Even the PC-centric Morrowind was fantastically clunky.