If it wasn't named DmC it would be brushed off as a DMC clone and ignored by would be critics. Of course the name Devil May Cry would be compared to other Devil May Cry games, that was always going to be the case for better or worse.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Criticizing DmC Dante design but accepting scalebound guy
- Thread starter blitzcloud
- Start date
If it wasn't named DmC it would be brushed off as a DMC clone and ignored by would be critics. Of course the name Devil May Cry would be compared to other Devil May Cry games, that was always going to be the case for better or worse.
blitzcloud
Banned
the originals featured quite a big change too. From Belts & Zippers to classy to shirtless&coat to cowboy.
Yeah I think some people forget how horrendous the reveal Dante looked.
I thought I had gotten more used to the character design over time. but if you go back to the reveal he looks like an anorexic frankenstein monster in an oversized jacket
My issue is that in both your OP and in your analysis above, you ignore tone and body language... which is a part of aesthetics and a big part of why the two characters you are attempting to compare are very different.
blitzcloud
Banned
yeah, for the second time... it really was a horrible thing. The weirdest thing though is how different he looked on every shot. like everything was a part of a different model build.
Fair enough. That is a good point and something I may have overlooked. I'm not a DMC player ( i mean, I haven't played the originals) so that's why even if I knew how Dante looked before I had no emotional attachment to him and the change wasn't infuriating. When I saw scalebound announcement trailer I thought: what? So this guy kinda looks like reboot dante, goes smug smiling on big monsters and pretty much goes the cool headphones way. I wondered how people would react to the design.
It seems i'm not entirely alone on this, but I wanted to know why those who favor scalebound guy and detracted Dante design think like that. As long as we don't downplay eachother arguments it's all healthy discussion.
Different times in Dante's life, I wouldn't expect him to look the same for every game in the original series.
Don't think there has been any series where the main character wore the exact same garb or looked identical, there are always small and subtle changes.
I think its a bigger change than you think it is, and character design is more intricate than one may believe. Espically considering the original received a number of changes over time, and that last one before neo Dante is probably the farthest from neo Dante.
Arc Christelle
Member
And we're done here.
Hero Prinny
Member
I'm not a fan on DmC dante cause to me he comes off as such a try hard. Both his attitude and his clothing. The guy from scalebound, we don't know shit about him but one thing I can tell from his clothing is that he's another try hard. Hope he doesn't try to act all edgy and shit though.
oh wow dmc2 dante is fucking badass!! my favorite one there(i've played 3,4 and DmC)
Dat first post.
Seriously how could you go from this..
to this
Granted, I loved the game but still the change boggles my mind.
oh wow dmc2 dante is fucking badass!! my favorite one there(i've played 3,4 and DmC)
blitzcloud
Banned
Nathan Drake (lol).
DashReindeer
Lead Community Manager, Outpost Games
What's with the lack of images in this thread? If OP is gonna insinuate that the Scalebound character is just as bad as Dino New Dante, then can we see some images that prove it?
For me, the big factor that separates the two is the shit-eating grin that DmC Dante always has on his face. I feel like the Scalebound character is a whole lot more sympathetic purely due to him not looking like an asshole all the time. Maybe it's just me, but I hated everything about new Dante from beginning to end in that game.
For me, the big factor that separates the two is the shit-eating grin that DmC Dante always has on his face. I feel like the Scalebound character is a whole lot more sympathetic purely due to him not looking like an asshole all the time. Maybe it's just me, but I hated everything about new Dante from beginning to end in that game.
But it isn't a discussion in good faith to being with. You're specifically limiting reasonable discussion by taking context such as historical precedents off the table. It comes across less as wanting to understand why DmC Dante got dumped on and more like you already know the reasons, but you want to create a scenario where the worst reasons seems widespread. Were there individuals that simply dislike DmC Dante's aesthetics while liking Scalebound guy? Possibly, but I'm not sure there is a significant number of them.
Exactly!!
Plus, Donte in DmC was a huge downgrade compared to Uncle Dante. There is no improvement whatsoever!
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Delusibeta
Banned
Dante was an established character. Scalebound guy is not.
Also, didn't Ninja Theory shit all over the old Dante designs during some presentation, in a fine example of tone-deafness?
Also, didn't Ninja Theory shit all over the old Dante designs during some presentation, in a fine example of tone-deafness?
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Because the looks angle was a strawman hung onto by those seeking to downplay more damning articulate points in order to write the history books.
Who was also poorly designed.
New Dante really does come off as a douche. I believe NT was going for a rebelouos yet somewhat cool/badass young person. That's kind of hard to do, because anytime you botch that you'll get a snot nosed young kid character who comes off very annoyingly. I feel like NT botched it because to me there was nothing enduring about the character.
DMC3/4 Dante though is written to be cool and over the top, but the games never froget that this is silly. From the DMC3 Guitar rock show to DMC4's Shakespeare play. Dante plays around while he wears cowboy boots and says dumb things like "THIS PARTY"S GETTING CRAZY.
New Dante says "FUCCCCKKKKKK YOUUUUUU".
There's just such a difference in how the characters are done and I'm sorry new Dante just comes off poorly. Though, some may find DMC 3/4 Dante to be a bit much. Different strokes.
As for Scalebound kid. The trailer showed him being enthused in pretty much everything. He's wearing beats headphones. I think we may have a very silly badass character instead of whatever the heck new Dante was.
DMC3/4 Dante though is written to be cool and over the top, but the games never froget that this is silly. From the DMC3 Guitar rock show to DMC4's Shakespeare play. Dante plays around while he wears cowboy boots and says dumb things like "THIS PARTY"S GETTING CRAZY.
New Dante says "FUCCCCKKKKKK YOUUUUUU".
There's just such a difference in how the characters are done and I'm sorry new Dante just comes off poorly. Though, some may find DMC 3/4 Dante to be a bit much. Different strokes.
As for Scalebound kid. The trailer showed him being enthused in pretty much everything. He's wearing beats headphones. I think we may have a very silly badass character instead of whatever the heck new Dante was.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
That was quick.
Not gonna lie, people claiming that old Dante was "cooler" are hilarious. But yes, they re-designed an existing character. Whether the design got better/worse, it was still going to receive tons of flack.
Donte was fine after the initial redesign where they made him not look like the smoking methhead from the TGS reveal (picture below for reference) and the character design was also at the bottom of anyone's list of criticisms if anyone did have a problem with it. Scalebound dude is fine because he isn't rebooting an already established franchise. I don't like the design very much but the game is still over a year out if it doesn't get delayed and it can be refined and will probably look better in actual gameplay as well.
Imperfected
Member
You really need to let go of this failed narrative that DmC was only disliked because of aesthetics.
No, I wasn't crazy about DmC's aesthetic choices. You know aesthetics I like even less? Sentai. I hate sentai, I think it's moronic. Guess what? Viewtiful Joe and Wonderful 101 are still better games than DmC, because in spite of having super-deformed sentai characters - which may as well be the aesthetic equivalent of cyanide for me - they're exceptionally well-made games.
I would probably rather have a game with DmC's aesthetics than what I've seen so far of Scalebound, but I would definitely rather have a game with Platinum's level of gameplay quality than one with DmC's.
No, I wasn't crazy about DmC's aesthetic choices. You know aesthetics I like even less? Sentai. I hate sentai, I think it's moronic. Guess what? Viewtiful Joe and Wonderful 101 are still better games than DmC, because in spite of having super-deformed sentai characters - which may as well be the aesthetic equivalent of cyanide for me - they're exceptionally well-made games.
I would probably rather have a game with DmC's aesthetics than what I've seen so far of Scalebound, but I would definitely rather have a game with Platinum's level of gameplay quality than one with DmC's.
blitzcloud
Banned
dunno, both of those grins are equally shit-eating. That's what triggered my alert when I saw the teaser. And the one you refer as shit-eating is pretty much Dante's smug smile. It's just that (imo) people exteriorize everything done wrong as if some of those choices didn't already become part of the character.
Nt shitting on Dante design wasn't wise at all, but it only further proves that people forced themselves not to like it (if they like this new guy with similar features)
Arc Christelle
Member
Rank S on that counter argument.
For the lulz, shorly before the reveal:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=407280
Yep, it's all about dat black hair. That was what everyone was worried about.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=407280
Yep, it's all about dat black hair. That was what everyone was worried about.
I'm really sorry that this trope that you hate so much is so popular and iconic.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
I guess, but I cannot unsee an adult version of Jack Frost when I see his design.
This is one of my favorite threads on GAF next to the Bayo 2 betrayalton thread.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I don't know anything about Scalebound guy but I like Kamiya and trust him to make characters I enjoy since his design philosophy usually doesn't involve taking any character incredibly seriously.
I didn't trust Ninja Theory, I still don't after DmC, I didn't really like that Dante and it's not just about design.
If you're going to call hypocrisy, maybe try to consider that there are more details and reasons for things and a childish black and white view.
I didn't trust Ninja Theory, I still don't after DmC, I didn't really like that Dante and it's not just about design.
If you're going to call hypocrisy, maybe try to consider that there are more details and reasons for things and a childish black and white view.
blitzcloud
Banned
Looks like a manly Joffrey baratheron to me.
TO be honest, from the 2 P+ games I have played (vanquish and MGR), the characters are simply there as filler. yet somehow, it manages to not matter at all because the gameplay is there to fill any gaps where you may say: "what is this bs stereotype?" It really is something you don't see normally.
Leafhopper
Banned
Guess so, but I agree with ya.
blitzcloud
Banned
I'm sorry you don't like it, but as a person that likes to draw and design quite a lot, I felt like sharing my concerns and views here.
Sometimes I wonder if DmC existed solely to help drive a movie adaption.
Capcom wanted to/talked about adapting DMC for film for many years. Somewhere down the line they decided the "classic" Dante could not be adapted to film in an acceptable way. They conjured DmC, a game permeated with a more "realistic" Dante and world to help set the grounds for a film. Mind you, DmC began development around the time Capcom announced a commitment to adapting more of their franchises to film.
Clearly these plans didn't come to fruition. But I suspect that's always been a factor.
Capcom wanted to/talked about adapting DMC for film for many years. Somewhere down the line they decided the "classic" Dante could not be adapted to film in an acceptable way. They conjured DmC, a game permeated with a more "realistic" Dante and world to help set the grounds for a film. Mind you, DmC began development around the time Capcom announced a commitment to adapting more of their franchises to film.
Clearly these plans didn't come to fruition. But I suspect that's always been a factor.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I'm fine with both.
Pretty sure the majority of reactions here were negative towards Scalebound guy anyway so not sure who this thread is aimed at.
Pretty sure the majority of reactions here were negative towards Scalebound guy anyway so not sure who this thread is aimed at.
I mean there were a fair amount of people sharing their distaste for the character design of Scalebound in the reveal thread. There were also people that liked it. It's just apples and oranges though because the character in Scalebound isn't replacing a character that's appeared in 4 mainline entries, 2 Viewtiful Joe games, Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, Marvel VS Capcom 3 and Project X Zone. That's simply why there isn't as much discourse as DmC Dante got.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
New IP from fan favorite dev vs established IP re-imagined by mixed opinion dev
Zomba13
Member
Dante was a pretty bad (imo of course) redesign that only got slightly better in game over his reveal and the original character had a striking and dramatic look with his white hair and long red coat and the new design didn't have that.
Scalebound guy doesn't look impressive, looks alright at best (like DMC Dante) but at least isn't a bad redesign. So far though nothing about Scalebound looks amazing. The dragon designs aren't great (the hydra looked cool though) and it's just a CG trailer. People are also more accepting becuase it's a new character. If Kamiya came out tomorrow and said they actually got permission to use Dante and this is a new Dante then I'm sure people would be critical of it (though his hair is closer to Dante's hair than NuDante).
Scalebound guy doesn't look impressive, looks alright at best (like DMC Dante) but at least isn't a bad redesign. So far though nothing about Scalebound looks amazing. The dragon designs aren't great (the hydra looked cool though) and it's just a CG trailer. People are also more accepting becuase it's a new character. If Kamiya came out tomorrow and said they actually got permission to use Dante and this is a new Dante then I'm sure people would be critical of it (though his hair is closer to Dante's hair than NuDante).
NumberThree
Member
Scalebound guy doesn't look like an annoying prick.
I thought DmC was a well made game, combat could have used some work but otherwise I'd rate it on the level of a DMC 3 or 4.
Anyway I wouldn't say the Scalebound character is universally accepted with open arms, I'm personally not a huge fan of the design but I'd have to see more of him and the game and hopefully some minor changes to his look overall.
This just made me realize how large his forehead really is. You could cook 3, maybe 4 strips of bacon on it on a really hot day!