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[entremet]

Being a fan of rail shooters--Star Fox (64), Rez, Sin and Punishment 1/2--I've somehow missed this series.

I never owned a Sega Saturn until recently, although I played many of it's best games since a friend had one during its heyday and we would trade systems from time to time.

But he never owned a Panzer Dragoon game. I did play a tiny bit of Panzer Dragoon Orta, but never sunk my teeth into it. It was fun, and challenging. I couldn't get past the first level. I only played it for 15 minutes, but I do remember enjoying what I did play.

The domestic Saturn versions are very pricey now (Saturn used market in a nutshell lol) and I'm not counting the RPG at all as it's in crazy town prices, but do I need to know Japanese for the first two Saturn games? It seems Japanese versions are cheaper and my Saturn can play Japanese discs.

I don't have an original Xbox, but i still have my 360 plugged in, and from basic google searching, it seems compatible.

 

[MrChom]

I'm not counting the RPG at all as it's in crazy town prices

You bring shame upon the house of Sega. Panzer Saga is an excellent RPG, got my copy for about £40 still in the box and you will prise it FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS.

As for Panzer and Panzer Zwei they should be playable. Most of the dialogue is in "Panzer-ese" and the story is told largely through actions not words.

 

[entremet]

You bring shame upon the house of Sega. Panzer Saga is an excellent RPG, got my copy for about £40 still in the box and you will prise it FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS.

As for Panzer and Panzer Zwei they should be playable. Most of the dialogue is in "Panzer-ese" and the story is told largely through actions not words.

I'm not counting in terms of potential purchases. I can afford it, but I doubt it's worth it's asking price. Besides, that less money for other games!

 

[Inuhanyou]

Panzer Dragoon Orta. Its an OG Xbox game but its BC with 360. Get that and have yourself a good old time.

 

[dock]

Panzer Zwei is probably the best entry point, and the best game overall.

It's a shame to miss the dialogue, but IIRC there isn't too much of it in Zwei.

I didn't enjoy much of Orta at all. I don't know why, but I think the level design was off, and I really didn't like the main character. She was kept in a prison but had immaculately styled clothes and hair?

 

[Ghost_Messiah]

As someone who's played them all: Panzer Dragoon Saga and Panzer Dragoon Orta. Saga is one of the best RPGs ever made and so overlooked and underrated. You'll love it. Orta is just one amazing game with some truly emotive moments and has Panzer Dragoon 1 and a demo of Zwei unlockable in the game so it's a great place to start. Hope this helps.

 

[Heero5]

Zwei easily, but Saga is also exellent.

 

[entremet]

As someone who's played them all: Panzer Dragoon Saga and Panzer Dragoon Orta. Saga is one of the best RPGs ever made and so overlooked and underrated. You'll love it. Orta is just one amazing game with some truly emotive moments and has Panzer Dragoon 1 and a demo of Zwei unlockable in the game so it's a great place to start. Hope this helps.

I don't know if I want to spend 300 plus bucks on a game I never played lol.

 

[ss_lemonade]

I normally play games in order of release when possible, but that's just me. Orta comes with the original PD right?

Zwei is the only Saturn title I've played and boy was it an amazing title. The amount of unlockables was mindblowing for young me back then

 

[Fhtagn]

Zwei is the best of the shooter Panzer Dragoons, Orta is the prettiest.

Love this series and wish a HD collection was plausible but I doubt it makes any sense at all from a business perspective.

 

[ApharmdX]

I agree with starting on Zwei. It's a better game than the original, and has better shooter gameplay than Orta. Zwei > Saga > Orta, and throw the original in at some point.

FYI, the original is available on PC. I think I still have my copy tucked away somewhere.

Saga is expensive, but you can buy, play, and resell without losing anything. I bought my copy in a bundle of Saturn games that included that and Dragon Force for like $140, if I remember right, about 12 years ago... got $180 on resale of just Saga alone 8-9 years back. PDS really is worth playing. It's one of the best JRPGs of all time, and EASILY the best JRPG of its generation. The game is touching and unique.

 

[Ghost_Messiah]

I don't know if I want to spend 300 plus bucks on a game I never played lol.

Depends whether you're determined to play in English or don't mind a Japanese import. English versions of Saga are in the $400 range but the Japanese import is like $50.

The game truly is amazing though. It's the best game on the Saturn and one of the best games I've ever played.

 

[oneida]

I'm in the vast minority but I prefer Orta to Zwei but both games are amazing. The first game is pretty good.

 

[GuyKazama]

Orta is good, plays on 360 (in widescreen, I think), and includes the original as an unlockable. Best place to start.

 

[¡HarlequinPanic!]

going to shamefully suggest that if you end up liking the series to check out crimson dragon if there's ever a good deal on it D:

 

[Weiss]

It's difficult to get into the Saturn PD games, so I'd recommend you try to grab a copy of Panzer Dragoon Orta. They're pretty cheap online.

It's genuinely incredible, visually stunning, is filled with hours of bonus content (including the original Panzer Dragoon), and has really deep gameplay for a rail shooter.

 

[Vlaphor]

In terms of shooters, I'd say go with Orta if you can buy it, or Zwei emulated if can't find a copy of Orta

As for RPGs, buy Saga if you need to, but don't feel too bad about pirating it (if they wanted us to buy it, they'd sell it to us).

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I'm in the vast minority but I prefer Orta to Zwei but both games are amazing. The first game is pretty good.

Same.

I've played through Orta 7+ times (including twice on all six difficulties). Zwei and the original? Just a few. It's all the more surprising considering the first two games are half the length.

Something about Orta just really clicked for me.

Also OP: If you have a modded/import PS2, I suggest grabbing the Sega Ages release of Panzer Dragoon. It goes for around the same price as PD on the Saturn. This edition includes the Saturn version, as well as a new one with some graphical enhancements (a few more polygons, better textures, etc)

 

[cireza]

Honestly you should play them all in order.

Panzer Dragoon is the beginning, and introduces you to this crazy universe. On Saturn, the game is not so smooth, but it was released very close to launch. Still an amazing game and experience.

Then play Zwei, it is my favorite. It just keeps delivering, with the same outstanding universe. Smooth gameplay, branching paths, evolving dragon. Great replayability.

Panzer Dragoon Saga is an RPG, I suggest you skip it for now. It is expensive anyway. Of course, it is a great game.

Finally Panzer Dragoon Orta is also a masterpiece. Gameplay wise, it is an amazing game and adds a lot of possibilities. In terms of the universe, this game does not follow exactly the same ideas as the original trilogy. It does its own things. Still an amazing game to play. It also comes with the first game as a bonus. Not the best version to play, but its free.

Personally, I would recommend Panzer Dragoon & Panzer Dragoon Zwei on Saturn, and Panzer Dragoon Orta on OG Xbox. Play all three, in the right order.

 

[Vlaphor]

The first Panzer Dragoon is also available on PC. Two versions I think. One actually uses squares instead of triangles to do polygons and requires a specific video card to work, though that may have been emulated by now. If there is a second version, it would just use regular polygons, but I'm not totally sure if it exists. Probably looks/runs better than the Saturn version at least.

Lazy Game Reviews looked at the first version and the unusual video card (which had a port for a Sega Saturn controller) on YouTube. I'd link, but I'm phone posting.

 

[freeofgreed]

As someone who's played them all: Panzer Dragoon Saga and Panzer Dragoon Orta. Saga is one of the best RPGs ever made and so overlooked and underrated. You'll love it. Orta is just one amazing game with some truly emotive moments and has Panzer Dragoon 1 and a demo of Zwei unlockable in the game so it's a great place to start. Hope this helps.

Is it really? Pretty much everybody sings high praises for the game. The only way i could thing of this game as overlooked is because not too many people van actually play it.

 

[Vlaphor]

Is it really? Pretty much everybody sings high praises for the game. The only way i could thing of this game as overlooked is because not too many people van actually play it.

I might be a bit careful when it comes to PD Saga praise. It's a damn fine rpg with unique mechanics, but it's also kinda short. Not to disparage those who say it's the best rpg ever, but I feel that claim comes from the same place that, "Nights is the greatest game ever" comes from.

 

[dock]

Is it really? Pretty much everybody sings high praises for the game. The only way i could thing of this game as overlooked is because not too many people van actually play it.

It's a very good game, but people go a little crazy with hyperbole when it comes to this game.
It's simply not worth the price people charge for it, unless you really really want it.

There are a lot of 'disc 1s' around because they gave it away as a 'demo' on a lot of magazines. I recommend picking up Disc 1 for cheap (which is 5+ hours long), and assessing the gameplay before you sink big money on it.

 

[topplehat]

I might be a bit careful when it comes to PD Saga praise. It's a damn fine rpg with unique mechanics, but it's also kinda short. Not to disparage those who say it's the best rpg ever, but I feel that claim comes from the same place that, "Nights is the greatest game ever" comes from.

I don't think being short is a negative thing and the fact that it's not padded is part of why I love it.

 

[sörine]

Zwei's the best game but the original game still has the best soundtrack.

 

[Danneee]

Orta is great and probably the one that have aged best outside of Saga.

 

[ApharmdX]

I might be a bit careful when it comes to PD Saga praise. It's a damn fine rpg with unique mechanics, but it's also kinda short. Not to disparage those who say it's the best rpg ever, but I feel that claim comes from the same place that, "Nights is the greatest game ever" comes from.

NiGHTS isn't the greatest game ever, and it was positioned as a Mario 64 competitor when it was released, which it was not. PDS is the best JRPG of that console generation. Although it's short, I don't think that statement is hyperbole. I played all of the major JRPGs of the generation, at or around release, and none were better overall games than Saga.

 

[PetulantChild]

Orta is good, plays on 360 (in widescreen, I think), and includes the original as an unlockable. Best place to start.

Will the original work on 360 compat? I remember you could play the original Ninja Gaidens on Ninja Gaiden Black normally but they wouldn't actually run if you were playing on the 360.

 

[Northeastmonk]

I would love it if we got PDS, but apparently they lost the source code for it. I'd buy a copy if I ever found it at a good price.

I'd say start with PD and move up the list. I owned Panzer Dragoon II Zwei a few years ago, but I sold it. Now it's up there in price.

 

[JonathanNemo]

NiGHTS isn't the greatest game ever, and it was positioned as a Mario 64 competitor when it was released, which it was not. PDS is the best JRPG of that console generation. Although it's short, I don't think that statement is hyperbole. I played all of the major JRPGs of the generation, at or around release, and none were better overall games than Saga.

I'm inclined to agree and I paid $120 for my copy. But your mileage may vary, if PD's world and story don't resonate with you I don't think shelling out for the RPG as your first purchase is wise.

Now seeing the current prices for Saga, $450 is a bit too much! I would actually start with Orta if you have a still functioning console that can run it, and see if you want to work backwards from there.

Orta has bunches of callbacks to Zwei and Saga. Zwei is referenced heavily by Saga. PD1 doesn't end up resolving much from a plot standpoint, but it sets up the basic conflict that the Saturn trilogy expands on big time.

However, Orta is supposed to be written from the standpoint of someone who is new to the series at large, and written by a different writer entirely though attempting to capture the same spirit as the previous. And it largely does a good job of that. Consider all the not-explained background lore in Orta a reason to pick up the Saturn trilogy later.


fwiw, I've played the PDs several times and I don't really play NiGHTS anymore. Didn't really see what was so special about the purple jester game besides the art direction.

Unpopular opinion ahoy!

Spoiler

I also thought that NiGHTS Wii was better than the original, apart from the obvious attempts to pad the gameplay to feel more like a 20 hoursy modern affair. If you cut that out, the level design feels tighter and there's fewer bugs where you can get stuck on the level geometry. The kids still control like pants, though

 

[LiK]

Orta since the previous versions are rare and expensive.

 

[IrishNinja]

lotta good answers here, Zwei is amazing but don't pass on the original! the story all connects too, which is awesome

shame they're all so expensive these days, but god i love the series - really gotta try Orta again soon

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

The first Panzer Dragoon is also available on PC. Two versions I think. One actually uses squares instead of triangles to do polygons and requires a specific video card to work, though that may have been emulated by now. If there is a second version, it would just use regular polygons, but I'm not totally sure if it exists. Probably looks/runs better than the Saturn version at least.

Lazy Game Reviews looked at the first version and the unusual video card (which had a port for a Sega Saturn controller) on YouTube. I'd link, but I'm phone posting.

Nvidia Diamond NV1 PC card, and I highly doubt it's been emulated, certainly in no good condition, as even regular Saturn emulation is pretty rough still.

I might be a bit careful when it comes to PD Saga praise. It's a damn fine rpg with unique mechanics, but it's also kinda short. Not to disparage those who say it's the best rpg ever, but I feel that claim comes from the same place that, "Nights is the greatest game ever" comes from.

Length is never a problem as long as the game gets its points across effectively with the time it has. I never really understood the "longer games are better" sentiment that's taken over like a cancer these days, but I know it certainly started in the back half of the 32-bit gen, thanks mainly to several PS1 games.

Also it and NiGHTS are two different games, and I've never heard anyone claim NiGHTS as the best game ever, just one of the best games of that gen and on Saturn. A pretty noticeable difference.

 

[bjork]

PDS is one of the few games I regret selling and would actually pay secondary market prices for now if I had the extra dough to do so. Such a great game, and one of the few I wish would get a reissue. Even without any updates to the visuals and all.

 

[evilromero]

I am pretty curious about the series, yes. Wait, was that a question for me? Never got very far into the third one on Xbox and never had enough interest to get the Saturn games on ebay back in the day (FYI they were just as pricey 15 years ago as they are today, so it's not really now).

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Orta is compatible with the 360. I know because I have it. I suck so bad at the shooter games though. Couldn't get past level 5 in the original and in Zwei, and I forgot which level I was stuck at in Orta, but yeah, if you love rail shooters give them a shot!

As someone said, Orta comes with the original Panzer Dragoon so there is that. If Zwei on the Saturn is too pricey, a Japanese version might work; you could always look up the English cut scenes on youtube? There are some, but not that many of them.

Is it really? Pretty much everybody sings high praises for the game. The only way i could thing of this game as overlooked is because not too many people van actually play it.

Yeah that's exactly it. It barely made GAF's Top Games of Gen 5 list (at the last spot, too) and it probably won't make the GAF Best RPG list either, despite being a widely acclaimed and amazing game.

PDS is the best JRPG of that console generation. Although it's short, I don't think that statement is hyperbole. I played all of the major JRPGs of the generation, at or around release, and none were better overall games than Saga.

Same and I agree 100%.

 

[RyudBoy]

If anything, play the first game for its incredible soundtrack, otherwise you can skip it and start with Zwei since it's a much better game. Orta is also very good. Saga is of course a different genre (an amazing RPG), but good luck finding a copy of the game.

Avoid Crimson Dragon at all cost.

 

[Krejlooc]

start with the first one and keep playing them in order. They tell a long story separated by hundreds of years, but they are all (excluding orta) connected deeply in the story. PD1 is basically a prologue to the series and the story will not make any sense until you've played Zwei and Saga.

Orta is weird, it's sort of like a tumor to the series. It really doesn't fit (and chronologically, its existence makes no sense because Saga completely wraps up the series).

IMO:

Saga > Zwei > Orta > PD1

Finding a way to play PD1 is surprisingly easy - it is on PC, it's on the Xbox, it's also on the japanese PS2 (and PS3 with a JPN account). Zwei and Saga are hard to find. Orta works in 360 BC, but has issues.

Saga is one of the greatest games ever made, and as far as I'm concerned, Zwei is the best rail shooter ever.

 

[Krejlooc]

I don't know if I want to spend 300 plus bucks on a game I never played lol.

you know you can turn around and sell the game after beating it for the exact same price. The thing seems to only increase in value.

 

[bjork]

I am pretty curious about the series, yes. Wait, was that a question for me? Never got very far into the third one on Xbox and never had enough interest to get the Saturn games on ebay back in the day (FYI they were just as pricey 15 years ago as they are today, so it's not really now).

Someone was charging $400 for PDS in 2000?

 

[andymcc]

Zwei is pretty much the best rail shooter ever made.

Play 1 and Zwei in order. Saga is definitely worth playing. Orta has some great boss battles and music but it isn't as good as Zwei.

 

[Krejlooc]

The music and atmosphere in this series is absolutely phenomenal. The Panzer Dragoon Trilogy is pretty much Sega at it's creative best. Quite possibly my most beloved Sega series.

Starting from the opening theme song, which goes from this grand, epic, sweeping movements to parts where it sounds and feels like you're turbulently tumbling out of the air, it's perfect for the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thQIVut1t6s

The setting is so freaking cool - it's a post apocalyptic world but the limitations of the saturn forced them to create a world that was not largely reclaimed by nature, but rather barren and scarred. The first two games only gives you glimpses of this world as you soar past vast deserts and expansive oceans, with ruins peaking out, but the nature of their plots forbids you from ever actually exploring this world. This gives the illusion that there is so much more going on at any given moment than you can see. By the time you actually get to wander the world in Panzer Dragoon Saga, you're interested in exactly what happened and why everything is so bizarre.

The minimalist and mysterious plot of PD1 left plenty of room for them to expand in the sequels. The plot for PD1 can basically be summed up in two cutscenes, one played at the very beginning of the game and one played at the end. Essentially, at the beginning, you are a scavenger who gets separated from a hunting group and is attacked by a mutant, only to be saved at the last moment by a man on a blue dragon. The blue dragon speeds off, and you watch above as it fights with a black dragon in the air. in the middle of the battle, the rider of the blue dragon is mortally wounded and the black dragon takes off. The blue dragon approaches you as its dying rider telepathically calls to you: "Please, do not let the black dragon reach the tower. My dragon knows the way. He has chosen you."

What is the black dragon? What is the tower? Why mustn't he reach it? Who is the blue dragon? Why does he choose you?

Absolutely none of those things are answered until Panzer Dragoon saga and zwei. They actually made Zwei and Saga concurrently at the same time, so their plots are very connected.

I just adore this series so much.

 

[Krejlooc]

Zwei is pretty much the best rail shooter ever made.

They were too modest. It's not one of the best 3D shooting games, it is the best 3D shooting game.

 

[Skulldead]

I'm not counting in terms of potential purchases. I can afford it, but I doubt it's worth it's asking price. Besides, that less money for other games!

buy it, beat it, then resell it. Very easy to sell...

 

[Northeastmonk]

Well it happened. It's been years and many dreams since this day. I finally found a copy at a good price and I took the plunge. Some may not know how badly I have wanted a copy of this game and some may not feel my joy over this, but this is a landmark or a milestone for myself and those I've ever enjoyed RPG video games with.

There may not be another moment like this, so I thought I'd share it. This just happened a few minutes ago.

 

[Krejlooc]

buy it, beat it, then resell it. Very easy to sell...

it's also very worth playing, and unlike any other RPG I've ever played. The closest comparison would be maybe Parasite Eve?

The battle system never gets old. It somehow feels like both an RPG and a rail shooter at the exact same time. Nobody says "it's panzer dragoon, only with RPG mechanics." It's Panzer Dragoon RPG. It feels and plays like Panzer Dragoon.

 

[v0yce]

No one ever mentions Mini. It's the only Panzer Dragoon I haven't played and have always been curious.

Is it not worth a play?

 

[Krejlooc]

Well it happened. It's been years and many dreams since this day. I finally found a copy at a good price and I took the plunge. Some may not know how badly I have wanted a copy of this game and some may not feel my joy over this, but this is a landmark or a milestone for myself and those I've ever enjoyed RPG video games with.

There may not be another moment like this, so I thought I'd share it. This just happened a few minutes ago.

Decades ago, I saw Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force III, and Magic Knight Rayearth all at Electronics Boutique and only had enough money for two. I picked up Shining Force III (amazing game) and chose MKR over PDS because I knew MKR was the last saturn game and I figured it would eventually be rarer and more sought after.

Well, I hated MKR, and refused to pay crazy prices for Saga after passing it up. Years and years fly by, and one day I'm at a garage sale and see a woman selling a bunch of very rare saturn games for dirt cheap in a box. She clearly had no idea what she was selling. There was no panzer dragoon saga, but there were copies of Burning Rangers, Shining Force III, Sega Ages, etc. all in mint condition, which I bought for a paltry sum (like under $50). I already owned all those games already, but I managed to turn those games into a straight up trade for a sealed copy of PDS on a gaming forum.

This was only like 3 or 4 years ago. All my praise for Panzer Dragoon Saga is not nostalgia, nor is it because I payed out the ass for it. It's legitimately a terrific game. I wish I could play it again with new eyes. One of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. To lust after a game for over a decade, and then to get it and have it live up to the hype is something else.

Enjoy your playthrough of the game. It's a master piece as far as I'm concerned. Possibly Sega's greatest hour.

 

[JonathanNemo]

No one ever mentions Mini. It's the only Panzer Dragoon I haven't played and have always been curious.

Is it not worth a play?

Not worth playing.

Some neat remixes of Zwei music, but it plays worse than Space Harrier.

 

[Northeastmonk]

Decades ago, I saw Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force III, and Magic Knight Rayearth all at Electronics Boutique and only had enough money for two. I picked up Shining Force III (amazing game) and chose MKR over PDS because I knew MKR was the last saturn game and I figured it would eventually be rarer and more sought after.

Well, I hated MKR, and refused to pay crazy prices for Saga after passing it up. Years and years fly by, and one day I'm at a garage sale and see a woman selling a bunch of very rare saturn games for dirt cheap in a box. She clearly had no idea what she was selling. There was no panzer dragoon saga, but there were copies of Burning Rangers, Shining Force III, Sega Ages, etc. all in mint condition, which I bought for a paltry sum (like under $50). I already owned all those games already, but I managed to turn those games into a straight up trade for a sealed copy of PDS on a gaming forum.

This was only like 3 or 4 years ago. All my praise for Panzer Dragoon Saga is not nostalgia, nor is it because I payed out the ass for it. It's legitimately a terrific game. I wish I could play it again with new eyes. One of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. To lust after a game for over a decade, and then to get it and have it live up to the hype is something else.

Enjoy your playthrough of the game. It's a master piece as far as I'm concerned. Possibly Sega's greatest hour.

Thanks and I was contemplating the price. I don't know if I'm going to get lucky. I've read where people found one here and there, but I have had zero luck. I'm worried that they're going to sit up there at $600+ someday and I don't think I would do it for that price. I thought about downloading the ISO and getting a SS ROM, but that doesn't seem right at all. If we got rid of ROMs this game would be even rarer to an extent. Owning this has more meaning to me than a lot of things.