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DA4 will celebrate diversity - narrative lead motives questioned after questionable tweets

I don't think anyone is against diversity. The forcing it and virtue signaling, "celebrating it", when it should just be viewed as normal everyday life is where you will be criticized.

It feels, fake when statements like such are made.
Sure I can agree to that but we know nothing about the game yet. Him feeling holyer than thou is not cause for panic and histeria. DA:I was more open about the same issue yet they didn't get much shit from it. Just because DICE fucked up dosent mean we should panic now
 
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As much as I like Thomas Sowell for skewering some sacred cows on the left he replaces them with sacred cows on the right with little engagement of recent economics of inequality. To show how untethered this kind of commentary is, consider Adolph Reed who writes on similar topics from a democratic socialist perspective.

I'm down with killing sacred cows, no matter where they come from, left, right, high above. Always, always, always go where the evidence leads.

But you raise an intersting point, because the video was meant as a cautionary tale, an antidote to the underlying rhetoric I was responding to, not an absolute endorsement of Sowell's ideas. His epistemology is sound, though, and that's his most fundamental virtue. Go where the evidence leads.

So people asserting that they somehow have the right to representation in videogames, and not just any representation, but the flattering kind, because they view themselves as members of a group of oppressed people, not just historically, but oppressed to this day, these people have a lot of explaining and a lot of proving to do before their claims can be accepted as is.
 
Historic injustice isn't the only reason for representation in media.

-Economic: With demographic change there is demand for more diverse characters
-Citizenship: A general sense of belonging is formed by participation in society whether that is democratic institutions or entertainment
-Understanding: If treatment of minority populations is important in a liberal society it would help to have a broader set of perspectives and experiences in media
-Acceptance: If there is widespread prejudice against some groups reflecting their perspectives could help reduce that prejudice
-Fairness: if people tend to self segregate and that leads to networking effects it won't do to assume outcomes are merely merit based. Efforts to diversify media with social pressure would then be justified


Obviously those values are in tension with others and also tied up with interests that are never pure, so yeah there's an agenda that needs some pushback where it becomes overzealous but I don' think it's a problem if you take the goal of activism to be to make you feel uncomfortable not so much to offer solutions as make us think about those issues collectively.
 
I'm all for diversity if it makes sense to the story, I'm with those who are against forcing it in or shoehorned in. It damages the story and really makes the character worse off if they're just there to pander to a miniortiy demograph. Krem and to a lesser extent Dorian that has already been pointed out are good examples of it being forced.
 
Is Dorian a good example of "forced diversity"? Seems heavily influenced by priors to me if that's supposed to be self evident. Is it the companion quest that you think was "forced". Yeah the conservative parents/society not being accepting of difference is cliched but it's a little more nuanced than that and it has little relevance to the character dialogue outside of the quest
 
Well let's take Asian-Americans from our history, then. They faced restrictions and discrimination throughout our history. Did they focus on creating these types of movements and public shaming or did they just put their heads down and earn it throughout all the restrictions and discrimination? Asian-Americans did it just like any other group on the outside of society throughout history. It's not a secret way of doing it, just hard work, education, willpower, and generations of time to change perception. Infact these movements harm their causes, its like taking
something away from your one kid for no reason and giving it to another of your kids in in front of them. Do you think your first kid is going to feel warm and fuzzy they lost their possession due to no fault of their own?

There have been many movements in America throughout history. Long-term almost none of them did more harm than good. Anti-taxation movement in the 1700s, The women's movements in the 1920s, Black people's movements from the 1950s and 60, LGBT movement in the 21 Century. They all succeeded.
 
Historic injustice isn't the only reason for representation in media.

Is your position that flattering representation is aimed at countering historical injustice?
If, say, hypothetically, in the past Asians were perceived as shy and meek, having an Asian PC that is the opposite will do some good, is that it?

Yes, fight a real cliché with a virtual counter-cliché.
That ought to work.
It's also reasonable.


-Economic: With demographic change there is demand for more diverse characters

You'd have to show that one of the decisive or even significant factors determining purchase is how relatable the PC feels to the gamer on any given arbitrary dimension, gender, sexual orientation, age, ethnicity, etc.

And if you were to show that, then you would have to explain why in areas where majorities would not recognize themselves in the PC, why on Earth would they even consider buying the game then.

And you would also have to show there's good reasons to prioritize any of these dimensions over others, lest you include them all.

-Citizenship: A general sense of belonging is formed by participation in society whether that is democratic institutions or entertainment

You'd have to show a sense of belonging [to the nation as a whole] is significantly affected by having a fictional character going about his fictional life in a fictional setting, a character you would be able to relate to in any of the arbitrary dimensions already mentioned.

-Understanding: If treatment of minority populations is important in a liberal society it would help to have a broader set of perspectives and experiences in media

Treatment of minorities is entrusted to the Law, not to videogames.

No one is stopping anyone from making their own games and using them as vehicles to shed light on any perspective. No one is. What is preposterous is this notion that some groups are owned reparations, owed something in relation to the work of others just because they are who they are.

-Acceptance: If there is widespread prejudice against some groups reflecting their perspectives could help reduce that prejudice

Yes, and we have documentaries, news articles and cover stories, also known as journalism, or even social activism, both of which are much better suited for that.

-Fairness: if people tend to self segregate and that leads to networking effects it won't do to assume outcomes are merely merit based.

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Efforts to diversify media with social pressure would then be justified

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Obviously those values are in tension with others and also tied up with interests that are never pure, so yeah there's an agenda that needs some pushback where it becomes overzealous but I don' think it's a problem if you take the goal of activism to be to make you feel uncomfortable not so much to offer solutions as make us think about those issues collectively.

Creators can do whatever they feel like. If they want to turn their games into manifestos, so be it. But if they build their games around real-life ideas and goals, then it's only fair to expect negative reactions from people who oppose those very same ideas and goals and people who, although their support those ideas and goals, find the execution lacking.

The issue of what makes me unconformable never enters my mind when discussing these topics.
It's completely irrelevant.
 
There have been many movements in America throughout history. Long-term almost none of them did more harm than good. Anti-taxation movement in the 1700s, The women's movements in the 1920s, Black people's movements from the 1950s and 60, LGBT movement in the 21 Century. They all succeeded.
Not so sure about the 20's one. Pre-movement they got to stay at home instead of working. Now they all work. Seems like an epic failure to me. :messenger_smiling_horns::messenger_squinting_tongue::messenger_winking_tongue:
 
I hope Dragon Age 4 celebrates completing the storyline it left hanging in the last game. If I recall, the bad guy absconded with some artifact and roll credits. Unless I missed some DLC or something.

If BioWare can do that bit of business, we'll be square indeed.
 
Feminist men are like the opposite of an apex predator, they would be the first to be eaten if we were actual animals living in nature. They're not even beta, they're omicron or some shit.
 
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