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Dark Souls 2 changes discussed, focus on removing tedium & backtracking [Fact Sheet]

Have they talked about magic users at all? Magic users should have to rely on casting 99% of the time. No they should not get to use weapons anywhere near as effectively as meele characters.

Master key isn't easy mode either. It basically allows you to sequence break without glitching the game.
 
Varna said:
Have they talked about magic users at all? Magic users should have to rely on casting 99% of the time. No they should not get to use weapons anywhere near as effectively as meele characters.

Master key isn't easy mode either. It basically allows you to sequence break without glitching the game.
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Well that will always be a problem because this game doesn't have "set in stone" classses.
 
Varna said:
Have they talked about magic users at all? Magic users should have to rely on casting 99% of the time. No they should not get to use weapons anywhere near as effectively as meele characters.

Master key isn't easy mode either. It basically allows you to sequence break without glitching the game.
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You'd have create a lot of spells for verity and different uses for different situations, and no, having six different versions of Soul Arrow with different damage output is not gonna cut it.

I wouldn't mind it though, hell I actually would prefer it if a Mage/Sorcerer playthrough felt completely fresh, I just don't think they have the time to create and balance all that.
 
Quick question: if I get the Artorias of the Abyss DLC do I have to start from the beginning or can I access it with a man I've already been playing with (not in NG)?
 
JonStark said:
When can we expect this ? shouldn't be far 2014, since it's not next gen. Moreover, they shown a boxart already...
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I'm thinking it will be out this year.

They seem to be pretty far along if they are already showing us significant amounts of gameplay.

Box art usually isn't created until nearer to release.

They have it up for preorder from Gamestop for 2013. Granted it says December the 31st, but Namco probably gave them an idea to expect it late 2013.
 
GraveHorizon said:
How about an easy mode that auto-selects Pyromancer and Master Key at the character creation screen?
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I get the pyromancer, but master key? Being able to reach Havel or Darkroot Garden or even Blighttown before doing Undead Burg isn't easy mode, it's hard mode.

As has been said already, Easy mode already exists, it's called summoning phantoms.
 
Why are people wanting to shit up my souls games?

The games thrive off a beautiful execution of dynamic user-adjustable difficulty. Having trouble getting past an area? Just soul farm, summon phantoms, maybe use a guide, and be careful. The game then becomes quite easy. Want a challenge for yourself? Then play by yourself, don't level up, and don't use a guide and just take it as it comes. Want to make the game impossible? Play like an idiot.

I don't understand why people are crying to compromise the design of the game. Stop sucking.

#elitism
 
Morrigan Targaryen said:
I get the pyromancer, but master key? Being able to reach Havel or Darkroot Garden or even Blighttown before doing Undead Burg isn't easy mode, it's hard mode.

As has been said already, Easy mode already exists, it's called summoning phantoms.
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Havel is easy, and he drops one of the best rings in the game.

Sprint through Valley of the Drakes and you can get Astora's sword and the Dragon Crest shield.
 
tokkun said:
Havel is easy, and he drops one of the best rings in the game.

Sprint through Valley of the Drakes and you can get Astora's sword and the Dragon Crest shield.
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-_- This works for an experienced player who already knows this stuff is there, and how to bypass the hard parts. It's not "easy mode" because a new player (one who'd presumably want this Easy mode in the first place and is playing for the first time) wouldn't know all this.

Stop kidding yourself. If a new player did what GraveHorizon suggested (picked "easy mode" which sets his class to Pyromancer and his gift to Master Key), he'd get OHKOed by the dragon zombie if he ever went there, then he'd get OHKOed repeatedly by Havel and he'd rage-quit because the game is too hard.
 
I loved the combat of DS but the open world / non linear nature of it really turned me off. Sounds like DS2 is going to be amazing. Can't wait!
 
Morrigan Targaryen said:
-_- This works for an experienced player who already knows this stuff is there, and how to bypass the hard parts. It's not "easy mode" because a new player (one who'd presumably want this Easy mode in the first place and is playing for the first time) wouldn't know all this.

Stop kidding yourself. If a new player did what GraveHorizon suggested (picked "easy mode" which sets his class to Pyromancer and his gift to Master Key), he'd get OHKOed by the dragon zombie if he ever went there, then he'd get OHKOed repeatedly by Havel and he'd rage-quit because the game is too hard.
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Well if we are considering new players, then why choose Pyromancer? Sorcerer is a lot easier for new players.

And anyway, you don't need to kill the zombie dragon. It is asleep until you try to take those items. Just grab the items and get killed. Havel is easier than any of the early bosses, including the tutorial boss. Just strafe and backstab. If you can't kill Havel, you are not going to get anywhere in the game in any case.
 
JonStark said:
When can we expect this ? shouldn't be far 2014, since it's not next gen. Moreover, they shown a boxart already...
Click to expand...

I'd say late 2013 / early 2014. As many already have suggested, the game seems to be pretty far in development. But everybody should keep in mind that the game was merely 1/4 complete when it was revealed late last year. So I don't know if 2013 is realistic.
 
Varna said:
Have they talked about magic users at all? Magic users should have to rely on casting 99% of the time. No they should not get to use weapons anywhere near as effectively as meele characters.

Master key isn't easy mode either. It basically allows you to sequence break without glitching the game.
Click to expand...

Magic is truly easy mode IMHO. There are a lot of parts where it really helps, and pyromancy and faith spells just aren't that good, particularly at the start, most of all cause faith don't get that many attack spells at first, and pyromancy doesn't scale damage as well.
 
ElFly said:
Magic is truly easy mode IMHO. There are a lot of parts where it really helps, and pyromancy and faith spells just aren't that good, particularly at the start, most of all cause faith don't get that many attack spells at first, and pyromancy doesn't scale damage as well.
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Huh, maxed out pyromancy is still great in NG+ and in PVP too.
 
The Lamp said:
Why are people wanting to shit up my souls games?

The games thrive off a beautiful execution of dynamic user-adjustable difficulty. Having trouble getting past an area? Just soul farm, summon phantoms, maybe use a guide, and be careful. The game then becomes quite easy. Want a challenge for yourself? Then play by yourself, don't level up, and don't use a guide and just take it as it comes. Want to make the game impossible? Play like an idiot.

I don't understand why people are crying to compromise the design of the game. Stop sucking.

#elitism
Click to expand...

"User-adjustable difficulty" is probably the worst thing about the series. It mars the games.
 
I was doing some duels in Oolacile today and I am so glad they changed the servers for DS2. Seriously the lag is ridiculous. I don't mind being lagstabbed because not many duellists fish for back stabs but running attacks and generally long weapons are terrible. You see a great sword or katana and it hits unless your twice its length away from the user.

Anyway something that is very under rated especially in PvP scene are spears. You see people with swords, greatswords, and axex but very few spears. Silver Knight spear is lethal: quick, medium damage, great move set and good length. Spears are also difficult to parry. People just don't know what to do when you have a spear in your hand lol.
 
Sullichin said:
Huh, maxed out pyromancy is still great in NG+ and in PVP too.
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Yeah sure but I am talking for the single player portion, specially for the first-timer. Magic > Pyromancy in this scenario.


As has been said already, Easy mode already exists, it's called summoning phantoms.
Click to expand...

Summoning phantoms is a crapshot and requires you to be in human mode which is not that affordable for people; if you die, bam you need to waste more humanity for another attempt.

Morrigan Targaryen said:
I get the pyromancer, but master key? Being able to reach Havel or Darkroot Garden or even Blighttown before doing Undead Burg isn't easy mode, it's hard mode.
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Master key allows you too bypass Capra Demon and take the easy way into blighttown, plus a few goodies here and there. Easy mode. Honestly there's not a point in grabbing anything else except the bombs to kill the first boss without a weapon.
 
Just to preface, I don't think there should be an easy mode.

tokkun said:
Havel is easier than any of the early bosses, including the tutorial boss. Just strafe and backstab. If you can't kill Havel, you are not going to get anywhere in the game in any case.
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*facepalm*

For you. For almost any new player Havel is going to be hard as shit. And no way is he easier than the tutorial boss. He has a ton of defense and your early weapon is in all likelihood crap, so it'll take a long time to kill him, and meanwhile he'll one shot you if you time your roll wrong.
 
I would like the game to be more (read: actually) difficult. Maybe on the NG+ they can make the enemies hardcore as all fuck, remove all the silly ways you can cheese dudes (poison arrows causing damage while the enemy doesn't give a fuck if you are far enough away, etc) and reduce the player to a glass canon. That would be nice.
 
I wanted to play sorcerer but I realised quick how ridiculous the casting animation was. So I started to play pyromancy only, no weapons only pyromancy hand haha.

I hope they make sorcerer less ridiculous in Dark Souls 2.
 
Just finished my first shield design... wonder when can we start sending them.

I also assume they won't choose it, but if we can upload it somewhere I'd love for you guys to have a look at it :)

Edit: Never mind, we can already apply. Wonder if they get uploaded somewhere so everybody can see them, or just the From Software staff...
 
I've started playing DS1 for the first time and I already see the problem there. There're not enough campfires. I've battled against a big boss, two or three minibosses and everytime I load up the game, I'm in the same place I was before. I dont want a campfire after every corner, but come on, a campfire after a boss battle? A campfire after a mid boss? I just dont want to go to the routine of killing the same skeletons once and again and again and again. The game is good fun, it's fantastic game design, except for the repetition you have to go through.

I'm glad they're aware this is a problem and they want to fix it.
 
fresquito said:
I've started playing DS1 for the first time and I already see the problem there. There're not enough campfires. I've battled against a big boss, two or three minibosses and everytime I load up the game, I'm in the same place I was before. I dont want a campfire after every corner, but come on, a campfire after a boss battle? A campfire after a mid boss? I just dont want to go to the routine of killing the same skeletons once and again and again and again. The game is good fun, it's fantastic game design, except for the repetition you have to go through.

I'm glad they're aware this is a problem and they want to fix it.
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This design philosophy actually comes from demon souls and it was intentional placed that way. There are usually short cuts after you defeated a boss that leads to a bonfire you have been to.

Its never unreasonable, you are usually 5mins away from any bonfire as long as you are familiar with the layout, thats where the repetitive part comes in to help hammer the layout into your head.

And keep your eyes out for ladders, levels, elevators that activate those short cuts.
 
fresquito said:
I've started playing DS1 for the first time and I already see the problem there. There're not enough campfires. I've battled against a big boss, two or three minibosses and everytime I load up the game, I'm in the same place I was before. I dont want a campfire after every corner, but come on, a campfire after a boss battle? A campfire after a mid boss? I just dont want to go to the routine of killing the same skeletons once and again and again and again. The game is good fun, it's fantastic game design, except for the repetition you have to go through.

I'm glad they're aware this is a problem and they want to fix it.
Click to expand...


There are already a shitload of bonfires in the games, I don't really see the need to add any more of them (the only place where I feel a bonfire is missing is the New Londo ruins, because having to take the elevator every time is a pain in the ass). Having even more bonfires would really make the game too easy.
 
ElFly said:
Magic is truly easy mode IMHO. There are a lot of parts where it really helps, and pyromancy and faith spells just aren't that good, particularly at the start, most of all cause faith don't get that many attack spells at first, and pyromancy doesn't scale damage as well.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree with this. I hadn't played with magic in DS1 until recently, when I made a character specifically for it. Once you get Great Soul Arrow (I hate the Heavy types) it becomes easy. Once you get Soul Spear and the Crystal spells, the game is a cake walk. Especially with crystal homing soulmass. And let's not forget the ways of making your spells even more powerful, like the rings, the Dusk Crown, and Power Within, not to mention the ones with more noticeable negative effects like half health catalysts. If you learn to time your spells and get good at rolling, you can pump up intelligence and become a true glass cannon. Some of the catalysts even have passable R2 attacks, too.
 
I wish they'd add different enemy placements on levels. Make it midway through a level and accidentally ninja flip off a cliff? Need to rush back to claim your souls? Fine, but those enemies you are expecting are going to be set up a little differently.
 
tokkun said:
Havel is easier than any of the early bosses, including the tutorial boss. Just strafe and backstab. If you can't kill Havel, you are not going to get anywhere in the game in any case.
Click to expand...
No, it's not. With your initial weapon, you need around 10 backstabs do defeat him, and you can't defend his attacks, he'll one shot you even when defending. And sometimes he can do some crazy fast spins that get you when you're strafing to land a backstab.

As people said, Master Key is "easy mode" to people that know how to use it and what to get.
 
PushingButtons said:
I wish they'd add different enemy placements on levels. Make it midway through a level and accidentally ninja flip off a cliff? Need to rush back to claim your souls? Fine, but those enemies you are expecting are going to be set up a little differently.
Click to expand...

I think they should do this for NG+ and on.A big part of Dark Souls is memorization after all, and it has a pretty big speed run community.
 
Hypron said:
There are already a shitload of bonfires in the games, I don't really see the need to add any more of them (the only place where I feel a bonfire is missing is the New Londo ruins, because having to take the elevator every time is a pain in the ass). Having even more bonfires would really make the game too easy.
Click to expand...
I dont know if there're shit loads of bonfires, the place I'm in, it feels like I'm stuck in the same area forever. When I reach a new area, there's no bonfire to be found at first sight. You go exploring, you find this ugly enemy that kills you and you're back to start. After the tenth time it begins to feel like a chore. I'm all for hard games, but there's a difference between being hard and being a chore. And I don't know if this game is crossing the line, but the place I'm in, it feels like it's crossed.

The dificulty is good, repetition of the easy parts is grinding. So, I want dificulty, but not grinding.
 
fresquito said:
I dont know if there're shit loads of bonfires, the place I'm in, it feels like I'm stuck in the same area forever. When I reach a new area, there's no bonfire to be found at first sight. You go exploring, you find this ugly enemy that kills you and you're back to start. After the tenth time it begins to feel like a chore. I'm all for hard games, but there's a difference between being hard and being a chore. And I don't know if this game is crossing the line, but the place I'm in, it feels like it's crossed.

The dificulty is good, repetition of the easy parts is grinding. So, I want dificulty, but not grinding.
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What area are you referring to?
 
ctw0e said:
What area are you referring to?
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This. There are only 2 big areas in the game that I can think of that only have 1 bonfire: the catacombs and the great hollow (and even then, they both have a couple of handy shortcuts). All the other zones are either small or contain several bonfires that are fairly close to one another.
 
Hypron said:
This. There are only 2 big areas in the game that I can think of that only have 1 bonfire: the catacombs and the great hollow (and even then, they both have a couple of handy shortcuts). All the other zones are either small or contain several bonfires that are fairly close to one another.
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Catacombs has two bonfires. Sens only has one, but the one in the parish is right at the entrance
 
ctw0e said:
What area are you referring to?
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Dont know the name. It's a green castle, there's a dragon over a bridge. It's not far from start. But I've already killed a boss and two semi bosses and every time I die, I go back to the same place. And I can tell you I havent gone ahead mindlessly. So, I don't think it is my fault.
 
fresquito said:
Dont know the name. It's a green castle, there's a dragon over a bridge. It's not far from start. But I've already killed a boss and two semi bosses and every time I die, I go back to the same place. And I can tell you I havent gone ahead mindlessly. So, I don't think it is my fault.
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You can lower the ladder under bridge to directly access the bridge from the bonfire. If you are facing the dragon, it is on the right side in the middle of the bridge. Let the dragon kill the enemies on the bridge and than run forest run! Once under underneath the dragon can't reach you. Lower the ladder -> go to the bonfire -> use the ladder from now on to continue.
 
Varna said:
Have they talked about magic users at all? Magic users should have to rely on casting 99% of the time. No they should not get to use weapons anywhere near as effectively as meele characters.

Master key isn't easy mode either. It basically allows you to sequence break without glitching the game.
Click to expand...

why are you hating on my battle mage class? :(
 
I assume he's talking about the distance from the first burg bonfire to the bonfire in the parish, with the bosses being the taurus and the boar and a..black knight? I dunno. Yeah, I'd say that's the best challenge of the burg to parish area, but assuming you unlock the two shortcuts (bonfire->bridge, parish->starter area), your travel time becomes minimal.

Though, when I think on it, the only reason I found the bonfire in the parish was because I was running like hell from the skeles and just inadvertently turned right. Had I turned left and ran into the church (assuming I didn't see the elevator) I would have been miffed at having to do that run again as well (not really).
 
Knowing where they all are, I like the amount of bonfires. But I know on my first playthrough, not knowing the locations of the bonfires, I found myself getting more and more anxious the further I got in, away from my last bonfire. And then coming up to a fog gate with a relatively large amount of souls was always nerve wracking.

I love that about this series, though, and wouldn't change it. Exploration is so rewarding. Finding a shortcut or a bonfire is incredibly helpful and a celebratory event. And even finding a ring or armor/weapon I suspect I'll never use is satisfying.

In short, it certainly can be a long way between bonfires when you don't know their locations or, god forbid, you miss one - but I wouldn't have it any other way. =)
 
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