WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT
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Dark Souls 3 Story and Lore Discussion [Unmarked Spoilers]
- Thread starter GorillaJu
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WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT
That's a skill from dark souls 1. I think from his shield.
thelooseteeth
Member
The only time I fought him, about halfway through his life bar, he exploded into a black blob hollow inside his armor, but was contained within. It was actually extremely awesome.
The Xtortionist
Member
I think that's just some clay armor or whatever weapon skill
Yah no pretty sure that's the Havel shield ability
thelooseteeth
Member
Damn, what ability is this? I guess I just wrongly associated the two.
Edit: Okay just watched a video and since I've never been a Havel's user I didn't even know about that skill. My imaginary version of that fight was so much cooler, though. :/
So there's a trend of people connected to the royal family getting struck mute.
Lorian's Armor: Lorian, raised as a knight, is said to have been left mute and crippled by his younger brother's curse. It is also said that Lorian, in fact, wished it so.
Divine Pillars of Light: The Queen's holy maiden Gertrude was visited by an angel, who revealed this tale to her. Despite losing both her sight and voice, she was determined to record the tale. Ordinary men cannot decipher her fragmentary scrawl, nor comprehend how it became the foundation of the Angelic faith of Lothric.
Obscuring Ring: It is said that Rosaria, the mother of rebirth, was robbed of her tongue by her firstborn, and has been waiting for their return ever since.
Rosaria losing her tongue to her firstborn seems like it might have implications with Lorian's armor stating he wished to be left mute and crippled.
Gertrude is said to have lost both her sight and her voice, while Lorian is stated to have been left mute and crippled, but Lorian's eyes are covered by his helm when you fight him. Maybe he's got functioning peepers under there, maybe he doesn't. It's a mystery to everyone.
Lorian's definitely still got his tongue in spite of being mute, though. Dude gives you a real good look at it in the pre-fight cutscene. And maybe it's just a trick of the lighting, but it seems like Lorian's got black hair when he first emerges from the shadows before the fight, but by the time the mid-fight cutscene where Lothric revives him starts his hair has turned white. Might just be a graphical oddity, might be something intentional.
Also noteworthy: there's a single slug spellcaster like the ones in the Cathedral of the Deep on the rafters outside of the cage with the corpse where you receive Divine Pillars of Light.
Lorian's Armor: Lorian, raised as a knight, is said to have been left mute and crippled by his younger brother's curse. It is also said that Lorian, in fact, wished it so.
Divine Pillars of Light: The Queen's holy maiden Gertrude was visited by an angel, who revealed this tale to her. Despite losing both her sight and voice, she was determined to record the tale. Ordinary men cannot decipher her fragmentary scrawl, nor comprehend how it became the foundation of the Angelic faith of Lothric.
Obscuring Ring: It is said that Rosaria, the mother of rebirth, was robbed of her tongue by her firstborn, and has been waiting for their return ever since.
Rosaria losing her tongue to her firstborn seems like it might have implications with Lorian's armor stating he wished to be left mute and crippled.
Gertrude is said to have lost both her sight and her voice, while Lorian is stated to have been left mute and crippled, but Lorian's eyes are covered by his helm when you fight him. Maybe he's got functioning peepers under there, maybe he doesn't. It's a mystery to everyone.
Lorian's definitely still got his tongue in spite of being mute, though. Dude gives you a real good look at it in the pre-fight cutscene. And maybe it's just a trick of the lighting, but it seems like Lorian's got black hair when he first emerges from the shadows before the fight, but by the time the mid-fight cutscene where Lothric revives him starts his hair has turned white. Might just be a graphical oddity, might be something intentional.
Also noteworthy: there's a single slug spellcaster like the ones in the Cathedral of the Deep on the rafters outside of the cage with the corpse where you receive Divine Pillars of Light.
No actually, I'm pretty sure this does happen.
If you look at the sword you'll notice is broken.
Maybe that's where you get the coiled sword fragment from.
Maybe it's from the "creat your own bonfires" thing. (was that ever actually confirmed to be a thing?)
but it's hard to say if it's a good thing or not
I've never cared about the lore enough to read the studies. The games offer enough story content and suggest just the right amount of detail at face value. Not this time. It feels like there's less story here for the player like me, who doesn't really understand the significance of Anor Londo being there, this person being there, etc. You guys are talking about the children of specific bosses from Dark Souls ONE like it's important to understand Dark Souls 3. This is way too much. In Dark Souls, I was an Undead. I knew what that meant. I understood what I was in the world. I still don't have a clue what "Unkindled," means.
Are you kidding? I got goosebumps
Yeah, there's a picture of it happening, from The Know leak
I feel dumb for missing it before, especially since I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned here before, but I just now took a look at those tree things on the Wall and they're all Pilgrim Butterflies. They're all facing the peak of the main castle (they could also be facing the sun, but it seems more directed at the castle), and all the other hollows are bowing to them.
Ok, I actually read through all 14 pages (100pp), so I don't think I'm retreading over too much territory. (I'm sorry this is long, and I'll warn you that these are only my theories even though I believe they fit.)
I'm surprised there hasn't been much discussion about the princes and the Lothric bloodline in general because I found them pretty fascinating. I’m of the school that thinks the queen of Lothric is Gywynevere (this is important to a theory I’ll expand upon later) with that being damn near confirmed when you compare the descriptions of Divine Blessing from DS1 and DS3.
DS1: “Holy Water from the Goddess Gwynevere. Fully restore HP and undo irregularities.
The Goddess of Sunlight, Gwynevere, daughter of the great Lord of Sunlight Gwyn, is cherished by all as a symbol of bounty and fertility.”
DS3: “Holy water blessed by the Queen of Lothric.
Fully restores HP and cures ailments.
The Queen of Lothric, married to the former King Oceiros, was initially revered as a goddess of fertility and bounty. After giving birth to Ocelotte, her youngest, she quietly disappeared.”
We know too from the cinder that drops from the princes that the Lothric bloodline was “obsessed” with producing a worthy heir. If you read all the items relating to Lorian, you get the idea that he was a pretty powerful knight capable of beating a demon prince. Looking at his physical form during the twin prince’s boss fight, you can see that if he wasn’t crippled by his brother’s “curse” he’d be a physically imposing man. Contrast that with items relating to Lothric that describe him as, “destined to be a Lord of Cinder…despite being born into illness, a frail and shriveled child.” (the armor of prayer set) Why was it that Lothric, despite being the younger brother AND sickly, was the heir to the Lothric bloodline and expected to be a Lord of Cinder?
The rest is speculation that I think fits with the information available.
My first theory is that the “heir” the Lothric bloodline was obsessed with producing was actually an heir to the first flame or possibly Gwyn. I believe they wanted to take the power of the First Flame for themselves (their bloodline basically) much like the alternate to the end of fire ending where you kill the firekeeper when she removes the flame. Oceiros and the Lothric Kingdom had control of the Archives which are heavily implied to be Seath’s archives. He could have learned of Gwyn, the first flame, and the power of the lord souls from the knowledge there-in.
My second theory is that Lothric and Lorian are half-brothers. Lorian was around doing his thing slaying demons when a literal goddess appeared. Oceiros, again obsessed with creating a worthy “heir,” has a child of Gwyn, the first lord, at his fingertips and marries her. This to me is a possible explanation as to why Lorian is basically shunted aside despite being older and stronger than Lothric. The only problem is that Lothric is born very frail. I believe Lothric’s frailty is also the “curse” that is spoken of. There are so many expectations placed upon Lothric to be this literal (thanks to his mother, Gwynevere) deific champion that when he comes out weak and frail it’s seen as a curse. Being a dutiful son, I think Lorian somehow fused his soul to Lothric’s possibly to extend Lothric’s life.
We know Lothric is a Lord of Cinder, but how in the world can someone as frail as he is claim the power of the First Flame let alone link it? My last theory for now is that I think Lorian, unable to die because his soul is fused with Lothric’s, linked the flame in Lothric's stead. If you notice all the other Lords of Cinder are basically bestial (including Lorian), but Lothric is quite lucid. If I recall, linking the flame basically causes you to go hollow. However, Lorian can't die because his soul is linked with Lothric's so they have nothing to lose (so to speak) using him to attempt to take the power of the First Flame. If you notice the inventory picture used for the Soul of the Twin Princes, the upper left portion of it is gray--ashen. I believe this is due to Lorian perhaps being incinerated but unable to die.
I believe it’s at this point, after Lothric and Lorian's failure to usurp the flame, that Oceiros started expirementing with the dragon fusions and creating Ocelotte. I think Gwynevere stuck it out for this one last child and saw that this whole thing was madness and then nope’d out.
Please correct me if anything is too out there. I'll also write more when I think of it, because as I said, I find the Lothric bloodline interesting in this game.
I'm surprised there hasn't been much discussion about the princes and the Lothric bloodline in general because I found them pretty fascinating. I’m of the school that thinks the queen of Lothric is Gywynevere (this is important to a theory I’ll expand upon later) with that being damn near confirmed when you compare the descriptions of Divine Blessing from DS1 and DS3.
DS1: “Holy Water from the Goddess Gwynevere. Fully restore HP and undo irregularities.
The Goddess of Sunlight, Gwynevere, daughter of the great Lord of Sunlight Gwyn, is cherished by all as a symbol of bounty and fertility.”
DS3: “Holy water blessed by the Queen of Lothric.
Fully restores HP and cures ailments.
The Queen of Lothric, married to the former King Oceiros, was initially revered as a goddess of fertility and bounty. After giving birth to Ocelotte, her youngest, she quietly disappeared.”
We know too from the cinder that drops from the princes that the Lothric bloodline was “obsessed” with producing a worthy heir. If you read all the items relating to Lorian, you get the idea that he was a pretty powerful knight capable of beating a demon prince. Looking at his physical form during the twin prince’s boss fight, you can see that if he wasn’t crippled by his brother’s “curse” he’d be a physically imposing man. Contrast that with items relating to Lothric that describe him as, “destined to be a Lord of Cinder…despite being born into illness, a frail and shriveled child.” (the armor of prayer set) Why was it that Lothric, despite being the younger brother AND sickly, was the heir to the Lothric bloodline and expected to be a Lord of Cinder?
The rest is speculation that I think fits with the information available.
My first theory is that the “heir” the Lothric bloodline was obsessed with producing was actually an heir to the first flame or possibly Gwyn. I believe they wanted to take the power of the First Flame for themselves (their bloodline basically) much like the alternate to the end of fire ending where you kill the firekeeper when she removes the flame. Oceiros and the Lothric Kingdom had control of the Archives which are heavily implied to be Seath’s archives. He could have learned of Gwyn, the first flame, and the power of the lord souls from the knowledge there-in.
My second theory is that Lothric and Lorian are half-brothers. Lorian was around doing his thing slaying demons when a literal goddess appeared. Oceiros, again obsessed with creating a worthy “heir,” has a child of Gwyn, the first lord, at his fingertips and marries her. This to me is a possible explanation as to why Lorian is basically shunted aside despite being older and stronger than Lothric. The only problem is that Lothric is born very frail. I believe Lothric’s frailty is also the “curse” that is spoken of. There are so many expectations placed upon Lothric to be this literal (thanks to his mother, Gwynevere) deific champion that when he comes out weak and frail it’s seen as a curse. Being a dutiful son, I think Lorian somehow fused his soul to Lothric’s possibly to extend Lothric’s life.
We know Lothric is a Lord of Cinder, but how in the world can someone as frail as he is claim the power of the First Flame let alone link it? My last theory for now is that I think Lorian, unable to die because his soul is fused with Lothric’s, linked the flame in Lothric's stead. If you notice all the other Lords of Cinder are basically bestial (including Lorian), but Lothric is quite lucid. If I recall, linking the flame basically causes you to go hollow. However, Lorian can't die because his soul is linked with Lothric's so they have nothing to lose (so to speak) using him to attempt to take the power of the First Flame. If you notice the inventory picture used for the Soul of the Twin Princes, the upper left portion of it is gray--ashen. I believe this is due to Lorian perhaps being incinerated but unable to die.
I believe it’s at this point, after Lothric and Lorian's failure to usurp the flame, that Oceiros started expirementing with the dragon fusions and creating Ocelotte. I think Gwynevere stuck it out for this one last child and saw that this whole thing was madness and then nope’d out.
Please correct me if anything is too out there. I'll also write more when I think of it, because as I said, I find the Lothric bloodline interesting in this game.
I can get behind most of this, and I think a lot of us have started to come to similar conclusions (especially regarding Gwynevere being the Queen of Lothric) based on what we can find in the game. I just really hope that the DLC fleshes it all out more, since while this all makes sense to me, it'd help to have some more concrete evidence to back it up.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
We're there any demon souls references?
Also...what was the basic premise to demon souls? I know it didn't have anything to do with the linking of fire.
Also...what was the basic premise to demon souls? I know it didn't have anything to do with the linking of fire.
Fun little fact:
The evangelist's say "We'll cleanse the bastard's cuuuurse"
I imagine that's Lothric's curse?
5 thrones/5 (usable) archstones
Level up lady in black with eyes occluded bywax crowns
Yuria of Londor/Yuria the Witch
Karla the Witch/Yuria the Witch
Storm Ruler
Gundyr's Armor potentially a reference to Old King Doran
basic premise: Demon fog has spread across the land, go stop it / ambiguous demon bringer The Old One needs to be put back to slumber, go do it
The evangelist's say "We'll cleanse the bastard's cuuuurse"
I imagine that's Lothric's curse?
5 thrones/5 (usable) archstones
Level up lady in black with eyes occluded by
Yuria of Londor/Yuria the Witch
Karla the Witch/Yuria the Witch
Storm Ruler
Gundyr's Armor potentially a reference to Old King Doran
basic premise: Demon fog has spread across the land, go stop it / ambiguous demon bringer The Old One needs to be put back to slumber, go do it
Just beat the game and yeah it was probably the easiest/shortest souls game for me. Though i skimmed a guide to see if i missed any areas and i completely missed archdragon peak and smoldering lake. Good thing i didn't activate new game+ yet.
One question about Patches. What causes him to show up in the shrine? I never ran into and then he just suddenly appears and starts apologizing for...something he didn't do. Does he mistake the player character for someone else?
One question about Patches. What causes him to show up in the shrine? I never ran into and then he just suddenly appears and starts apologizing for...something he didn't do. Does he mistake the player character for someone else?
Empty Space
Member
I wondering since the game doesn't make it clear have all these lords linked the flame once or are they all shirking their duties now? How do these Lords have any power left if they already lit the flame once? Shouldn't they be tapped out?
Dark souls 2 on Ds1 lore: yeah, the old iron King? Yeah that's Gwyn basically. But not because he looks nothing like him and his art design is boring but trust us it's him, just read the vague as possible item description.
Dark souls 3 on ds1 lore: that IS anor Londo, that IS Izalith, that IS gwyn's move set.
Dark Souls 2 relies on DS1 lore whereas Ds3 IS Ds1 lore.
There's your difference.
Dark souls 3 on ds1 lore: that IS anor Londo, that IS Izalith, that IS gwyn's move set.
Dark Souls 2 relies on DS1 lore whereas Ds3 IS Ds1 lore.
There's your difference.
Old Iron King wasn't Gwyn. He was another king that found Gwyn soul. I think it's a big difference enough.
Remember, Gwyn did exactly the same, he found a Lord Soul. These Lord Souls keep existing even if they change hosts.
who are you talking to
you keep bringing up ds2 like there's some lorefight happening when nobody is saying anything
Lux R7
Member
That was not my personal take on the lore. I think that "finding the souls of lords in the flame" means something like "lighting up the true strenght inside them". So Gwyn's soul was his own, he just found out that his soul was strong enough to make him accomplish great things. But that's just my take. Like the Dark soul found by the pigmy is just the darkness that lies within every human being.
People were talking about why DS2 is said to have messed with Souls lore and DS3 wasnt. I'm on mobile because so I couldn't quote properly.
I'm actually reading every comment instead of scanning the thread to find things I disagree with.
My DS1 lore is a little rusty but I think they found the lord souls on the First Flame (would have to re-check that).
Also, every human has darkness inside because we are descendants of the pygmy, who found the Dark Soul.
Empty Space
Member
The lords souls are power. They imbue power upon their recipients its why Gwyn fragmented a lord soul and gave power to the Four Kings and Seath. This isn't some inner strength type deal in fact based on that very first intro cut scene the lords were not too dissimilar to basic hollows before discovering fire.
You probably went up the tower behind firelink shrine and got out through an alternante route without realizing patches locked the front door trapping you.
Lux R7
Member
Of course this is what we see, i know and i agree. I just think there is a second reading. But that's just me.
They definitely treat you like a hero in DS1. It's all a ruse, but, that's part of what makes it so good.
Empty Space
Member
There's no real indication of what an unkindled actually is which is super weird. What makes us any better at killing Lords than a really determined hollow like the first two times the player does this.
I think that they're undead born with the purpose of linking the flame.
Other undead you encounter in your game will die in peace once they've completed their missions. Siegward dies after you kill Yhorm together. Sirris dies after you've killed her crazy grandpa. Anri dies after you kill Aldrich together. Orbeck dies after he's imparted all his wisdom onto you.
However your character keeps on trucking, leading me to come to my conclusion. Other unkindled have probably failed. Champion Gundyr may be an example of this.
Lux R7
Member
Oh about this,i don't think so.
We know for certain that Gwyn had a family. Lloyd was Gwyn's uncle (and he hunted undeads). So it's not that there was nothing before the first flame. There was probably a royal family in anor londo, and also izalith and all the other realms.
MegaMelon
Member
I'm really disapointed that they dropped the Bloodborne-esque lore notes. They even showed it before release iirc.
This is what I mean:
http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Epitaphs
Clearly this game didn't get the full time it needed. It's still great but I hope with Miyazaki as president, From'll be able to take their time and achieve everything they want to in future games.
This is what I mean:
http://darksouls3.wiki.fextralife.com/Epitaphs
Clearly this game didn't get the full time it needed. It's still great but I hope with Miyazaki as president, From'll be able to take their time and achieve everything they want to in future games.
I wanted to see this too.
I don't think the game feels rushed at all. I think it's the most focused Souls game.
These were probably just scrapped.
33-Hit-Combo
Member
So, I was at the High Wall of Lothric again and noticed those guys growing in to trees resemble the butterflies an awful lot. Any one else?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=201430026&postcount=870
But these are no more than vague similarities. There's no connection between Demon's and Dark Souls, although they do share very similar themes.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
lol what, how did the game not get the time it needed?
Killer Queen
Banned
I mentioned something similar, but not about the tree hollows, instead the pilgrims that were on there way to Lothric but it's never explained why, they only show up in and around Lothric also like the Pilgrim butterflies.
Killer Queen
Banned
I haven't gotten to play through the Londor questions yet so I'm not sure if it's ever brought up. But I feel like it's not a coincidence considering the name along with the pilgrims only ever traveling to Lothric.
Pilgrims are essentially cocoons. They're supposed to go to Lothric to die and let the butterflies hatch. Though it was obvious.
Different time, different place.
Different time, different place.