I could be wrong, but isn't that just the CG From is famous for? Not in-game?
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Dark Souls II - First review
- Thread starter Sn4ke_911
- Start date
I could be wrong, but isn't that just the CG From is famous for? Not in-game?
...It's literally the first thing that you do when you gain control of the player. The asylum is the tutorial.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Probably didn't want to waste time reading the messages on the floor, right? ;P
Ludicrous Speed
Banned
I have a huge backlog and I don't have time to waste on games that don't explain how to play. As another example, I tried playing Don't Starve recently but I couldn't figure out what the hell I was supposed to do so I gave up. I don't have countless hours to figure out how to hunt, build a house, etc in that game. Give me some direction!
I'm playing through The Witcher 2 right now, and the developer does a good job with that. You fight a few rounds in an arena to learn the various combat techniques. Something like this is Dark Souls II would be perfect. A simple addition that will help the player immensely.
Most of the messages on the ground in the Undead Asylum tell you what the button commands do. They're conveniently placed near areas or enemies where you can try out the command.
It was the same way in Demons as well with the first area you walk through.
When the giant black box tells you to press A/X to read a message, I find it hard to say it's the game's fault someone didn't know the controls.
It was the same way in Demons as well with the first area you walk through.
When the giant black box tells you to press A/X to read a message, I find it hard to say it's the game's fault someone didn't know the controls.
Could you please tell me what happened, because as far as I know you can't interacts with NPCs unless you are the host. Maybe there are exceptions?
I found it way harder to get into TW2 than to get into DS.
DS explaines its few combat and movement mechanics right at the start and the tutorial level itself is a small-scale representation of the general flow of the game (unlocking shortcuts etc.). While I really liked TW2, I didn't like the arena-introduction all that much (the short bit in the forest was cool though).
No it doesn't?
Oh you totally can. I alt-tab all the time in between invasions.
The summoned person can aggro enemies and hide behind NPCs. This makes the enemies attack the NPC and kill them. I think this is what fuzzyreactor means.
Soodanim
Member
If reading the information placed clearly on the ground in front of you isn't enough tutorial for you to get started, then I'm afraid Dark Souls isn't the game for you.
H3avyM3tal
Banned
How you feel about something is just asillusionary as the so called negetive impact respec has on the game. Its not that you cant be pragmatic about it, its you wont.
The only negative here, is that it will affect your state of mind. It wont actually affect how you play the, since you play it like you want to. It created this issue where we all get one game, yet some see another. Objectivity is lost in the name of some half assed notion of ego.
If that is too complicated to acknowledge, then we'll get nowhere. Staying still at the same place.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Fair enough. I think one of the main appeals of something like DS is it's top to bottom obtuseness. Unravelling the mystery of how everything works is a big part of the fun. I mean, the very basics are explained as soon as you start, but the rest requires reading item lists, using the help button on stats, even going on a wiki etc. You have to work for stuff with DS, it's part of what makes it so satisfying to play and different from 90% of the other titles. Like "I put in the work, and I succeeded".
In many ways, I'm glad that DS2 is working to broaden the appeal, the Souls series is something that deserves to be played by more people. At the same time, it is a little worrying that they feel the need to (in some respects) do away with that top-down obtuseness.
Adrelariel
Neo Member
There is a larger tutorial section this time around, think of asylum but slightly longer. It has some really basic and easy enemies to get used to the controls and there are tombstones littered around that give helpful tips along the way
Source: Press preview
That's what makes me hate and love the Souls games at the same time.
I bought both previous Souls titles at release and quickly sold them out of frustration. I've only been able to enjoy them when... 1) I have a bunch of time to invest into gaming. Souls requires a lot of time to build your character up, farm and get used to the mechanics. You're not going to start it up and make much progress. 2) I've read through a few spoiler-free FAQs. Gamefaqs usually has a few that explain the basics without ruining it. 3) Realize that you're going to have to clear areas over and over. I flipped out over constantly having to go through 1-1 in Demon's. Progress is measured by unlocking shortcuts, leveling up, defeating bosses and collecting items.
Even though I beat both Souls titles, I am almost positive I'll hate Dark Souls II for the first 5 to 10 hours.
So all this is is just another "don't use it" post, only weirdly worded.
I already explained why that doesn't solve anything and why it creates new problems instead. And yes, the concepts of a game being engaging, scary etc. have a lot to do with a player's state of mind. When I know that there's respeccing available, then character creation is just not engaging for me (not specifically talking about DS2 and how it's implemented there, which we don't know yet). Simple as that. It killed the appeal of D3's character creation for many players, there is nothing to deny about it. And indeed, being able to warp out of Blighttown at the bonfire definitely would've killed much of the tension down there for me.
D Bo Chops
Member
LOL. "Countless hours" to learn how to block, roll, and swing your weapon... please.
Soodanim
Member
If I ever knew that, I completely forgot about it. That's pretty ingenious.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Even then, later tier weapons will have stat requirements that need to be met. I think they've done a good job of combatting the twinkling (is that what it was called?) from DS, at least on paper.
Robert J. Sullivan
Member
So OT is going to be Dark Souls 2 |OT| The Dark Souls of Dark Souls amirite
Deified Data
Banned
No one's going to give a shit, but my biggest reason for opposing respec has nothing to do with gameplay implications and everything to do with roleplaying.
"Roleplaying in Dark Souls? I thought it was a min/maxer e-sport?"
It's not really something I can explain to people who don't RP. I roll a character to fit an archetype, and I abide by that archetype throughout the game and solve problems in a manner befitting that archetype...if that makes sense. If I start the game as a priest for example I'm not going to use magic, socialize with unsavory characters, invade the worlds of the innocent, etc. Some might view that as being a slave to convention but I've found that it makes subsequent playthroughs more rewarding. I actually feel like From designed the game to be played this way, and encourage roleplaying in a way that most RPGs don't via the covenant system.
I don't know. Let's look at a game that took the idea of respec and just ran wild with it - Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning. A game I enjoyed quite a bit despite being easy as piss. You could respec for the first time a couple hours into the game, and afterwards you could do it with impunity. You can change from fighter to mage to thief to a combination of all three whenever your heart desires. Did it promote experimentation? Yes. But I felt it made my character transient - less of a character and more of an in-game avatar. A character who can just change their entire being at the drop of a hat isn't much of a character in my eyes.
I realize this criticism means jackshit to most of you, and that's fine. Also: "don't use it if you don't want to", which is true. I'm basically just outlining why I won't be using the feature, personally.
"Roleplaying in Dark Souls? I thought it was a min/maxer e-sport?"
It's not really something I can explain to people who don't RP. I roll a character to fit an archetype, and I abide by that archetype throughout the game and solve problems in a manner befitting that archetype...if that makes sense. If I start the game as a priest for example I'm not going to use magic, socialize with unsavory characters, invade the worlds of the innocent, etc. Some might view that as being a slave to convention but I've found that it makes subsequent playthroughs more rewarding. I actually feel like From designed the game to be played this way, and encourage roleplaying in a way that most RPGs don't via the covenant system.
I don't know. Let's look at a game that took the idea of respec and just ran wild with it - Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning. A game I enjoyed quite a bit despite being easy as piss. You could respec for the first time a couple hours into the game, and afterwards you could do it with impunity. You can change from fighter to mage to thief to a combination of all three whenever your heart desires. Did it promote experimentation? Yes. But I felt it made my character transient - less of a character and more of an in-game avatar. A character who can just change their entire being at the drop of a hat isn't much of a character in my eyes.
I realize this criticism means jackshit to most of you, and that's fine. Also: "don't use it if you don't want to", which is true. I'm basically just outlining why I won't be using the feature, personally.
FailFish. Jesus H Christ some people will just never get it.
Convenience and difficulty have nothing to do with this shit. These design decisions for DS2 are detracting from what makes Souls so meaningful and rewarding. How many video games give you that high when you finally overcome a tough boss after several attempts, eventually learning it's moves and adjusting your own strategy to succeed? How many games give you that "a-ha" moment like unlocking shortcut after shortcut to Firelink Shrine and make you so grateful for being able to traverse the seamless open world that little bit easier?
It was the consequences of every action, the dread of probable failure that made me so much more attentive to the world the more I played the original Dark Souls. Mulling over every line of PC dialog and each item description for clues on what to do and what was happening. It was rewarding too because it almost always was meaningful, even if not strictly important.
Dark Souls is not a truly difficult game. The skill cap is not all that high. The fact that the player has to want to adjust, has to want to invest more of their attention to the details and learning all the mechanics is what tuns off a lot of players because of how most games don't treat players with the respect we're due. All bosses have movesets that can be learned, the bigger the boss the more telegraphed and exposing the attacks they have. Parrying has a lenient timing window and can be employed to more easily dispatch a large number of different enemies. NPC's and players can be summoned to near enough trivialize most boss fights.
I have no problem to changes being made to the mechanics of the game. Dark Souls had it's share of flaws in that department for sure. However, i'm skeptical of how respeccing, fast travel, looting hp and mana recovery items from mobs ( on top of estus) will do anything but trivialize the game or make it easier for the sake of it.
H3avyM3tal
Banned
If you choose the hunteress in D3, no amount of respec will make you a barbarian.
You fail to make the distinction that in the Souls game, respec makes you into a different class. It doesnt take away from learning anything. If any, it makes the experiance much more diverse. And that is thinking if we can respec everytime. Which is probably wrong since there is an item at play here.
Do you mean 80's like the Demon's and Dark Souls, or 60's like most of their other stuff?
Obviously there are no real classes in the Souls games but that doesn't change the issue here. If anything, it makes the problem worse. Consider DS a game with one class if you will. What determines a character build within a class are its stats. In D3, every character within a class is basically the same thing. It's basically a temporary loadout, not a build. So in a Souls game this would be even worse since every character would basically be the same (since there is no class distinction) if there was a similar respeccing feature as in D3. Of course we'll have to see how the feature is implemented in DS2 but this was just a general explanation of why this problem has nothing to do with character classes.
I can't even... I think I'm done with you. Did you understand a single word of my post?
Okay, I'm going to spell it out with as few words as possible: There needs to be permance in DS' character creation for different builds to exist (in a meaningful way).
H3avyM3tal
Banned
How the hell is that different than now?
Oh wait, its not. Because assumptions.
Dont blame the game for your own shortcomings.
Nope
Dark Souls II |OT| Let Hope be reborn under the name Despair
considering the events I'm also considering
Dark Souls II |OT| Prepare to Casual
Lots and lots of them. Many games have awesome boss fights (Dark Souls reminds me a lot of the Kingdom Hearts series with the way you fight some of the bosses - except being actually easier than the hardest bosses in Kingdom Hearts) and the part about unlocking shortcuts fits just about any Metroidvania and then some beyond that.
Ventilaator
Banned
piratepwnsninja
Member
I can't decide which system I want to get this on. Ugh.
edit: First, I should say. I'm also getting PC whenever that comes out.
edit: First, I should say. I'm also getting PC whenever that comes out.
dark souls teaches you to a certain extent the controls, and combat mechanics...what more do you want?
You can't go wrong with that. It's the controversial issue that dominated the conversation around the game since it was revealed. Plus, it both makes lighthearted fun of the people who are complaining (i.e: me) and it also leaves the door open for the possibility of the game actually turning out (too) casual-friendly.
The Souls series is very distinct style of game; currently the only one of it's kind which I'm aware of being produced today. It's no surpise that the players who adore the series are defensive about changes which would serve to alter the fundamental design philosophy of the series. A philosophy which basically amounts to here's the game - you're on your own. People who don't dismiss the game after becoming frustrated with it's obtuse, directionless nature learn the game, it's nuances, it's plot and they're handsomely rewarded for it by triumph in the face of failure, and a story which reveals an extremely compelling and distinct tale. I understand becoming frustrated and quitting the game and dismissing it. But don't blame the game for that. It was designed to be that way. Just man up and admit that it wasn't the game for you.
I don't care for hip-hop or country western music. I've tried getting into by listening to album people have recommended to me over the years, but I've decided that those genre's of music just aren't for me. So I don't listen to them, and I certainly don't buy albums from those genre's.
What I don't do is make a thread on Dr. Dre's message board demanding that he stop making hip-hop records and instead start making heavy metal records. Because I don't like hip-hop, and would much rather they make metal. Why don't I do that? Because it's an absurd and self-absorbed thing to do.
FROM doesn't make games like Mass Effect, or Diablo III, or any other Action RPG out there. They make Dark Souls.
I don't care for hip-hop or country western music. I've tried getting into by listening to album people have recommended to me over the years, but I've decided that those genre's of music just aren't for me. So I don't listen to them, and I certainly don't buy albums from those genre's.
What I don't do is make a thread on Dr. Dre's message board demanding that he stop making hip-hop records and instead start making heavy metal records. Because I don't like hip-hop, and would much rather they make metal. Why don't I do that? Because it's an absurd and self-absorbed thing to do.
FROM doesn't make games like Mass Effect, or Diablo III, or any other Action RPG out there. They make Dark Souls.
OdysseusVA
Banned
I chuckled.
Deified Data
Banned
Still pulling for this one. You promised me, Nito! And sealed it with a jif!
Captain Jack
Banned
Dark Souls II |OT| Gotta Go Fast Travel
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
Dark Souls II |OT| Prepare To Buy
I second this.
gif. You being a jif supporter is making me change my idea.
Im joking then again the OT moving at fast pace so both can happen really
Prepare to Casual seems to be getting the most love.
zephervack
Member
I love Dark Souls and spent around 150 hours playing it, at the same time and funnily enough, I am not a bit A-RPG fan, DS just kind of grabbed my attention.
What is this respeccing everyone talking about??? Does it mean that at any point I can open the menu and juggle the experience points any time I see fit? Like, can I move 30 from stamina to Strength to use a weapon I want at any time??
What is this respeccing everyone talking about??? Does it mean that at any point I can open the menu and juggle the experience points any time I see fit? Like, can I move 30 from stamina to Strength to use a weapon I want at any time??
This is course.
No. There's a very rate consumable item that lets you do that, but it's not Diablo 3.
no, it requires a "very rare" item, and is likely just once per game cycle.
zephervack
Member
What? And people are making a big deal about that, that sounds as avoidable as the Master key, if you dont like it, dont even pick it up/choose it.
hahaha