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[Aureon]

I don't know. A lot of the game's balance seems accidental, and one of the main reasons why the game had such a large backlash during EA is that the devs focused on more minor balance issues rather than some rather substantial structural issues, like the screwed up difficulty curve or tedious/boring "fail state".

They're really obsessed with class&trinket balance, while everything else is basically untouched over months.

 

[jblank83]

The amount of grinding is just... I really like the game but it can be so tedious, to the point that I kind of don't want to play it.

I turned off most of the gameplay options because they just seem like a way to maximize the amount of grinding you have to do to de-stress/rehab/cure characters.

 

[Rhaknar]

You guys are bumming me out lol.



Edit: just found this comment from a dev while lookimg for difficulty spike discussions on google:

"Don't get attached to heroes early on - let the broken ones fall to the way side, and concentrate on building up some estate wealth. Winning a quest isn't how Darkest Dungeon measures success..."

Basicall he's saying to do loot runs lol

 

[K.Jack]

HOLY FUCK how did I not know that you can 'lock in' positive quirks via the Sanitarium??? Wtf have I been doing with my life. I might just start over lol

Also, the game actually feels more "fair", since I turned off Standard Enemy Crits. I'll turn it back on, when they address why enemies crit so often, for so fucking much. It's just unnatural right now. Working as intended? I dunno.

 

[Rhaknar]

HOLY FUCK how did I not know that you can 'lock in' positive quirks via the Sanitarium??? Wtf have I been doing with my life. I might just start over lol

Also, the game actually feels more "fair", since I turned off Standard Enemy Crits. I'll turn it back on, when they address why enemies crit so often, for so fucking much. It's just unnatural right now. Working as intended? I dunno.

I wonder if the game should have those options turned off by default, and you could use them if you wanted, like xcom did.

I know its silly but them being the default makes me feel dirty for turning them off.

 

[DrArchon]

Just did two more long champion runs. Really getting annoyed at the frequency of enemy crits. Had one of those hook hand swine crit for 20 damage 3 times in a row, despite my MaA constantly giving my team huge bonuses to dodge, not to mention what seemed like an abnormally large number of crits from the giants in the weald, again with the dodge buffs from my MaA.

I'm looking at the gameplay options and it says that by default enemy crits will scale with their damage, like player characters, but you can turn that option off so they do max damage all the time. Am I reading this wrong or will that make the game way harder? The prevalence and power of enemy crits is something that I really don't want to deal with too much longer if I don't have to.

Got 3 ancestor items though, so that was nice . Managed to keep everyone from dying too, even though my MaA and Abom both got afflicted on the second run. Also got a page from a journal entry or something. Never seen it before, despite being almost 99 weeks in. Does it do anything, or is it just flavor?

 

[Rhaknar]

I read that as they will do max damage, non-crit.

So if their damage is like 10-20, they will do 20 but not crit for 40

 

[jblank83]

I read that as they will do max damage, non-crit.

So if their damage is like 10-20, they will do 20 but not crit for 40

Correct

With option off they do max damage on a crit. They do not do max damage all the time, rather they do something within their range, e.g. 10-20.

 

[DrArchon]

Correct

With option off they do max damage on a crit. They do not do max damage all the time, rather they do something within their range, e.g. 10-20.

Oh man, that sounds way better to deal with. I'll try that out for sure. Will they still critical as often though? That extra stress is almost just as bad sometimes.

 

[Rhaknar]

You guys are selling me on "cheating", aka using the options, at least the crit one. That plus the loot runs might bring back the joy

 

[jblank83]

Will they still critical as often though?

Yes

 

[DrArchon]

Yes

Damn. Oh well, maybe it won't be so bad if the damage isn't absurd.

 

[Nothus]

Damn. Oh well, maybe it won't be so bad if the damage isn't absurd.

I imagine you won't have the stress effect on your players either, it will literally just be a normal attack that does 20 damage (for example).

I really don't know if I can bring myself to do loot runs with fodder characters. I would much rather level them up a bit, maybe to the higher echelons of rank 2, and then attempt some long 2 camp apprentice missions and earn some money that way.
The way I'm playing the game right now every mission is fun and carries an element of risk. Sure it's frustrating as hell sometimes but I still keep coming back for more because the missions where everything goes well are such a payoff.
Somehow I feel like loot runs would drain all the fun out of it.

 

[Rhaknar]

I imagine you won't have the stress effect on your players either, it will literally just be a normal attack that does 20 damage (for example).

I really don't know if I can bring myself to do loot runs with fodder characters. I would much rather level them up a bit, maybe to the higher echelons of rank 2, and then attempt some long 2 camp apprentice missions and earn some money that way.
The way I'm playing the game right now every mission is fun and carries an element of risk. Sure it's frustrating as hell sometimes but I still keep coming back for more because the missions where everything goes well are such a payoff.
Somehow I feel like loot runs would drain all the fun out of it.

are you doing champion runs? because thats where it broke for me. Veteran stuff was great imo. Im actually digging these loot runs, its different from what ive been doing so far in the game (I never let the light run out for example)

 

[kionedrik]

What really bothers me is that the difficulty options seemed fine till the champion areas. Crits happened once in a while and the big numbers weren't a deterrent of the fun, it was part of the challenge.
Level 5+ stuff frequency of crits is just ludicrous and I wonder if they did some hidden (not shown in patch notes) number tweaking in the latest hotfix as I don't remember it being this ridiculous before. Capping the damage seems like a band-aid and not a fix, you will still get critted non-stop but at least it won't be for 50+ every single time. Stress will still be a bitch to deal with though...

 

[Nothus]

are you doing champion runs? because thats where it broke for me. Veteran stuff was great imo. Im actually digging these loot runs, its different from what ive been doing so far in the game (I never let the light run out for example)

I've done a few yes. I currently have about 6 characters that are level 6.
I'm trying to gradually bring a few more characters to max level by taking a team of 2 or 3 level 6 guys with some level 5's to hopefully try and make things easier, but last night was nothing but frustration as I had to abandon every champion quest I tried and I lost one of my level 5 characters in the process.
I think it might partially be my own fault for not having a well balanced roster though. I've tended to lean towards the brute strength classes and don't have too many with DoT effects. I wish I had more grave robbers and plague doctors in my squad now because DoT actually seems to be the most effective way to take down the tougher mobs and bosses.

 

[OKK]

Aw yeah. Just finished the last two levels with my first try. Amazing feeling right now! Especially the end boss was _so_good_ that it hurts. Pretty much the whole time I had an idiotic smile on my face

Enemies always went first (I made sure to pay atention lol), I missed more than I hit, normal enemies just pulling out crits left and right. Thats not RNG anymore, thats just cheating, and its not fun. My Vestal died and I had to pull out, it was pointless to continue, and it was just a short one too.

No, the game doesn't cheat. You have all the information visible so that you can see where your party fails in a mission. I would say ~ 90% of the time you can complete Champion dungeon without losing a hero. For example last few days I have been grinding seeker characters to max level. All in all I maxed out probably twelve characters without losing a single one.

Few tips:
- At start clear only short Champion dungeons with your lvl 5 heroes. For long runs prefer lvl 6 heroes since the dungeons can be quite large and thus more challenging.
- Prefer dungeons that are "clear 90% of rooms" or "clear 100% of room battles". Doing so, you will have more space in you inventory for treasures etc. I have only done a handful of missions where I need to carry mission items back to my camp. In my opinion these kind of missions are a waste of time.
- Learn what items (bandage, herb, holy water, etc.) you should use for Curios. This is crucial to know.
- Particularly the Ruins is a great place to farm jewls. Take long dungeon -> don't open chests/sacks -> clear all rooms -> put your torch level to 1-25 and go back to open these chests/sacks. Lower light = greater rewards.

Yesterday I made a mistake watching let's play video where the streamer get decimated. The annoying part was the comments how the game is "unfair" and it's "all about the luck/RNG". That's simply bullshit. It's okay to dislike the game because of the difficulty but before doing so, let's try to be self-critical. In my experience majority of the deaths and failed runs were due to my overly optimistic mindset and/or intrangience.

 

[DrArchon]

Few tips:
- At start clear only short Champion dungeons with your lvl 5 heroes. For long runs prefer lvl 6 heroes since the dungeons can be quite large and thus more challenging.

I actually found medium runs to be easier for my lvl 5 guys just because of the camping. Really helped towards managing health and stress, and some of the camping buffs are so absurd that it really lowers a lot of difficulty. Short runs left my guys super stressed at the end and needing to chew on food way more often than I'd like, which always sucked whenever a hunger prompt came up.

 

[jblank83]

I imagine you won't have the stress effect on your players either, it will literally just be a normal attack that does 20 damage (for example).

Crits do stress damage even with the modifier option unselected.

 

[Bonfires Down]

I wish that we could eventually recruit heroes that start at level 3. Getting a level 0 back to level 5 takes ages and costs so much.

 

[Coriolanus]

I wish that we could eventually recruit heroes that start at level 3. Getting a level 0 back to level 5 takes ages and costs so much.

Could be solved with a late game stage coach upgrade unlock that allowed you to recruit progressively more experienced heroes. Hrm.

 

[DrArchon]

I wish that we could eventually recruit heroes that start at level 3. Getting a level 0 back to level 5 takes ages and costs so much.

That'd be nice. Have them show up at lvl 3 with 4-5 quirks instead of 2-3, I could see that.

It'd be really helpful now that I'm only getting 1 or 2 green missions with every batch.

 

[OKK]

I actually found medium runs to be easier for my lvl 5 guys just because of the camping. Really helped towards managing health and stress, and some of the camping buffs are so absurd that it really lowers a lot of difficulty.

I can see that. Particularly Man-at-Arms has godlike camping skills. Namely Tactics (entire party gain +10 dodge and +3% crit) and Weapons Practice (all companions gain +10 dmg and +5% crit). With this class and some good trinkets it's easy to build a squad (Arbalest + Arbalest + Occultist + Man-at-Arms) in which every hero has 30% crit chance. After this even the end game bosses weren't that difficult. Also building high crit party means that you don't have to worry about stress in dungeons.

 

[Rhaknar]

No, the game doesn't cheat. You have all the information visible so that you can see where your party fails in a mission. I would say ~ 90% of the time you can complete Champion dungeon without losing a hero.

the fact that my guys get 1 shot by a random crit by a fodder mob in the first room is cleatly visible? ok dude.

and im already doing short runs and I have to bail out 2 rooms in because everybody either gets insta 1 shot critted and freaks everybody else, gets randomly surprised or a combination of both (this was before full upgrades so thats on me),

that you are even acting there isnt a sudden huge difficulty spike between veteran and champion, when 10 other people in the thread are having the same problems with crits and having to do loot runs to afford upgrades is silly.

 

[OKK]

the fact that my guys get 1 shot by a random crit by a fodder mob in the first room is cleatly visible? ok dude.

and im already doing short runs and I have to bail out 2 rooms in because everybody either gets insta 1 shot critted and freaks everybody else, gets randomly surprised or a combination of both (this was before full upgrades so thats on me)

I find it troublesome to comprehend this because like you - I also got critted by the enemy, but this was never an issue for me. Maybe because of two factors:
- I tend to surprise enemies since I preferred to have the torch level between 100-76 in Champion levels. Also I always used a trinket that increased the change of surprise.
- My team was build high speed and/or high crit.

What this means? It means that I usually killed at least one enemy before they got a change to attack. After their attack I got the upper hand because my heroes had higher speed stat. Overall all my "regular" (=non boss) battles took max 6 turns and usually the last one or two turns were mainly stunning the last enemy & healing my crew.

You said that your party gets randomly surprised by the enemy. What torch level are you using? My advice is to take enough torches so you can keep the highest light level. If it's over 75, then it's much more common that you will surprise the enemy and not the other way around.

that you are even acting there isnt a sudden huge difficulty spike between veteran and champion, when 10 other people in the thread are having the same problems with crits and having to do loot runs to afford upgrades is silly.

Pretty sure that I haven't deny that a) the game gets tougher and b) players need to grind in this game. Of course feel free to quote my old messages to show that I'm wrong.

If the game is as infuriating as you said then I advice to tweak the difficulty settings (take away the corpses etc.). In my opinion the Champion levels are almost a warm-up for the actual Darkest Dungeon part. Unlike Ruins, Weald, Warrens or Cove - the DD runs were always though as hell* because of the dungeon layout, mini-bosses and the high number of enemies that were equipped with strong attacks that inflicted damage over time. Although after the first playthrough the future runs are somewhat easier since you will know what to expect.

*Okay. One mission wasn't though, but I won't spoil it. Everyone who has completed the game knows what I'm referring

 

[Rhaknar]

oh by the way, being surprised at full torch, thats fun too

 

[The Lamonster]

Is this the type of game where you start from the beginning every session? Or does your progress persist beyond an hour or two?

Roguelikes turn me off because there is no real investment. Everything you did is wiped away all too frequently. Would I like this game? The art style intrigues me so I'm curious.

 

[DrArchon]

oh by the way, being surprised at full torch, thats fun too

Gotta scout more. I've never been surprised running into a fight that I've scouted (I'm not sure it's even possible). Bring trinkets that let you scout more, use camping skills to boost the chance even more (some are for +30-35%!), keep the torch high, etc.

Scouting is the best tool you have for dealing with tough missions. Abuse it!

 

[Rhaknar]

Is this the type of game where you start from the beginning every session? Or does your progress persist beyond an hour or two?

Roguelikes turn me off because there is no real investment. Everything you did is wiped away all too frequently. Would I like this game? The art style intrigues me so I'm curious.

no, its like rogue legacy, there is a meta upgrae system where you build up your town. There is permadeath tho, so you have to upgrade your new guys over again

 

[OKK]

oh by the way, being surprised at full torch, thats fun too

Is this common issue?

What trinkets are you using? Also what is your typical party composition?

 

[Morokh]

Tuesday's patch completely messed up my game, most of my level 4's suddently became level 5 and I can't do Veteran bosses anymore atm.
On top of that no Vestals or Occultists show up in town since then which doesn't help playing with the few low levels I still have T_T had such a good run until now ...

 

[Rhaknar]

full upgrades (thanks for the loot run tip peeps, totally solved my money issue) and no big crits option and I did my first champion short run. That was fun again, had a couple of hairy moments but nothing I felt was out of my control (I took a ton of food and tyorches lol). Felt like veteran again which is the sweet spot for me

On the crit front I actually cant remember if I was critted so I dont know how that affected it >_> I also got a ton of xp, they almost got rank 6 just from that run

 

[DrArchon]

Tuesday's patch completely messed up my game, most of my level 4's suddently became level 5 and I can't do Veteran bosses anymore atm.
On top of that no Vestals or Occultists show up in town since then which doesn't help playing with the few low levels I still have T_T had such a good run until now ...

I heard something like that happened, but I didn't notice anything in my game. Sucks to hear though. They should've only reduced the amount of XP it takes to get to lvl 6, not to lvl 5. People were only mad about grinding for XP to get people to the Darkest Dungeon faster, not to get to Champion runs faster.

 

[Rhaknar]

I heard something like that happened, but I didn't notice anything in my game. Sucks to hear though. They should've only reduced the amount of XP it takes to get to lvl 6, not to lvl 5. People were only mad about grinding for XP to get people to the Darkest Dungeon faster, not to get to Champion runs faster.

they reduced the xp to get to 6? I just got almost a full bar from a short champion run

 

[Nothus]

- My team was build high speed and/or high crit.

Just to be clear, the only way to build your team in this way is through trinkets and quirks, right? Other than buffs you apply during fights.

I just want to make sure I'm not missing something.

 

[Rhaknar]

lol collector on champion... not gonna say impossible, but with my current setup...yeah its impossible

vestal, plague doctor, leper, cruader. he just sits in the back both healing from life steal or healing from the healer minion, meanwhile the other minions just kill my guys, and i cant get to the collector because I cant kill the minions fast enough (with full upgrades). plague doctor blight just gets countered by his life steal

like come on

I ran away, it was pointless (with that setup at least), but done a few short champion runs now and it feels so much better with the crit thing turned off. Actually having fun again. Will definately come back to this after xcom, I was afraid I was getting burned out with the harshness but it feels great again (for me of course)

edit: damn just hit 50 hours, that $20 value

 

[OKK]

Just to be clear, the only way to build your team in this way is through trinkets and quirks, right? Other than buffs you apply during fights.

Yes, that's right.

My advice is to lock these positive quirks as quickly as possible, so you would never lose them. For instance Quick Reflexes (+2 speed) and Eagle Eye (+3% ranged crit) are very useful. Especially if you stack these with Trinkets (such as Eldritch Killing Incense and Bull's Eye Bandana). Add Man-at-Arms OP buffs and you will have a smooth sailing from here.

lol collector on champion... not gonna say impossible, but with my current setup...yeah its impossible

vestal, plague doctor, leper, cruader. he just sits in the back both healing from life steal or healing from the healer minion, meanwhile the other minions just kill my guys, and i cant get to the collector because I cant kill the minions fast enough (with full upgrades). plague doctor blight just gets countered by his life steal

like come on

I ran away, it was pointless (with that setup at least), but done a few short champion runs now and it feels so much better with the crit thing turned off. Actually having fun again. Will definately come back to this after xcom, I was afraid I was getting burned out with the harshness but it feels great again (for me of course)

I'm glad that you realize that in this case the game wasn't cheating or being unfair - and the the whole sticky situation was due to the choise that the player made with his party composition (i.e. the main damage dealing units can only strike to the front). This was my point earlier: People need to critically evaluate their own strategies if the game gets tough, and not the RNG factor. I haven't tested the NG+ mode, but the default difficulty level is actually quite fair.

 

[Rhaknar]

im playing without the crit multiplier, so yes, the game is cheating usually

im kidding

Spoiler

kinda

, its fine dude, you are that guy that goes "pft dark souls is easy" im the guy that says "no its hard, I just endure it and get by kinda I guess". To each its own, all I care is that Im having fun again

 

[K.Jack]

Huh, had no idea that there are trinkets designed by the Kickstarter backers. List if you want to scroll through for the ones you'd find useful.

I certainly don't have the patience to add all of them.

 

[DrArchon]

Had to retreat from a long champion run last night 3 rooms away from the ending. I was so pissed. I just finished camping for the second time and was ambushed in the night by a thrall and some fish men. Killed both of the fish on the first turn and dodged the thrall's attack, so I was feeling pretty good. Then the fucking thrall exploded on turn 2 and dealt 30+ damage to my whole party! I've never seen them blow up that quickly!

That actually felt pretty unfair.

Huh, had no idea that there are trinkets designed by the Kickstarter backers. List if you want to scroll through for the ones you'd find useful.

I certainly don't have the patience to add all of them.

Holy shit, I had no idea that was a thing. Pretty cool of them to do that for the backers, but I think I'll pass. A lot of those seem almost too good, and I'm at a pretty good point in terms of gameplay balance for me (expect for that one thrall).

Can you sell them for money? Might be a decent way to make fast cash.

 

[Begaria]

Can you sell them for money? Might be a decent way to make fast cash.

They sell for 1 gold. You can also only have one of those trinkets at a time.

Oh, and a lot of those are incredibly powerful with downsides that are downright laughable. I'm quite enjoying them

 

[sanhora]

New patch

Never Again
Characters who have the Never Again trait, now also carry a 30% Party XP buff when running dungeons. This effect does not stack.

FIXES
Tuned Back Resolve XP Thresholds: Left L6 a bit lower to reduce the 5 > 6.
Updated Localization based on community feedback
Fix Death’s Door Recovery Buffs not saving
Fixes to Tooltip Positioning for Tray Icons
Fixed On the Old Road, We Found Redemption and Strict Mode
Achievements (These should be retroactive)
Fixed area name length (mostly for Russian Localization)
Fix target spamming bug where you use an item (dog treats or holy water) to select multiple targets same or different targets with a one target skill.
Fixed crash when going to the Quest Select Screen
Fixed to Man-at-Arms Command ability not affecting CRIT like intended.
Crypts tutorial quest now gives dungeon xp to fix the case where you die in old road and have limited selection of first post tutorial quest.
Removed loot from the summons on the Necromancer, Siren, Brigand Pounder and Ectoplasm fights.

 

[explodet]

I've been doing the Level 0 hunt 'n' punt for heirlooms, and I must say I'm getting a macabre amusement out of the affliction dialogue.
Crusaders keep going all virtuous on me, though.

Those stack limits are rough. And twenty-four portraits for rank 4 skills? Youch.

 

[Begaria]

Psh, 24 portraits is nothin'. That 48 Deeds for Rank 4 weapons/armor is rough.

 

[explodet]

And 56 for rank 5?

That's harsh. I see that less a "play the game naturally" level and more a "send randos from the stagecoach into the meat grinder" level.

 

[Rhaknar]

the game feels so much better with the crit multiplier option turned off its not even funny. in my personal opinion of course

edit: what the fuck I lost all my level 6s they are all 5 again, was there a rollback or something?

 

[kionedrik]

the game feels so much better with the crit multiplier option turned off its not even funny. in my personal opinion of course

edit: what the fuck I lost all my level 6s they are all 5 again, was there a rollback or something?

they rescaled levels 0-to-5. It now takes more resolve to get to 5 and the same from 5 to 6 as before, so your guy's cumulative resolved isn't enough to reach 6.

Personally I like it more this way as I thought you could get from 0 to 4/5 too quickly.

 

[Begaria]

You know what I really appreciate about Darkest Dungeon as being one of the games I'm playing through right now? Being able to control everything with just the mouse - movement, opening curios, etc. I've got a 5 month old daughter so when she's bored of playing on her playmat, isn't ready for a nap, or wants to be held, I've been able to hold her and bounce her on my knee while playing Darkest Dungeon with just one hand.

 

[TheSadRanger]

New patch

I'm having a weird bug with this which is making some of my guys delevel. Like a a few of my legendary guys who were lvl 6 are now lvl 5.

 

[Rhaknar]

I'm having a weird bug with this which is making some of my guys delevel. Like a a few of my legendary guys who were lvl 6 are now lvl 5.

Its not a bug, all my 6s reverted to 5 because you need more xp to get to 6 now. It only took me one short champion run to make them 6 again tbh

You know what I really appreciate about Darkest Dungeon as being one of the games I'm playing through right now? Being able to control everything with just the mouse - movement, opening curios, etc. I've got a 5 month old daughter so when she's bored of playing on her playmat, isn't ready for a nap, or wants to be held, I've been able to hold her and bounce her on my knee while playing Darkest Dungeon with just one hand.

Yup, its how I play aswell