legacyzero
Banned
Yeah, seeing the PC version will be what's most telling. I seriously think they are saving a lot of this for the next/new gen platforms.
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#DarkSoulsDowngrade and #YOULIED \\ a.k.a You got some splainin' to do, Namco
- Thread starter Havel
- Start date
I don't buy games period for reasons like this. So, no, I have not purchased a game day one in four years. Well, Guild Wars 2. But that's it. And I went in fully expecting it not to live up to ArenaNet's ambitions.
Yeah but there were also people who liked the darkness who are now complaining that it is gone. Poor framerate is still there although I don't doubt that the game runs better now that it has been stripped from its lightning. It'd be pretty sad if it didn't.
Yes, to number 1. Number 2, it is not just ugly -- they changed the game play mechanics as well (i will not go over this shit again, read the thread). I would have waited for the PS4 or the PC versions. I would not waste $60 on a game that looks like PS2 at times.
So is this the sentiment shared by everyone in support of this?
This comment in particular I mean. Have they gotten far more courtesy than they deserve?
Now it's time to buckle down and go full lynch mob?
Even if this happens, in fact, especially if this happens, we should be blowing FROM up even more. That would be Ouya levels of bullshit, to fund your later release with early sales from ignorant customers.
DrROBschiz
Member
Ok but this is meaningless
Since we dont have a perspective on the overall majority of the feedback or what decisions were made after the fact
How the hell could we possibly know if the lighting could have been kept in or not and still satisfy performance requirements
I guess itll be a good thing if From ever decides to comment on the Last gen console development and put this to rest
zephervack
Member
My biggest hope is that this thread and campaign makes them consider adding the lightning to the PC version.
If the PC version gets the lightning, there is our answer, they couldnt get it running on consoles, the end.
If the PC is missing it, then it was clearly just false advertising, no way around it.
Serious question, if the PC version comes out and it looks exactly like PS360 but with hi-res textures/resolution, how should we react? What do people think? I am thinking this is going to be the most likely scenario -- it will not have any of the stuff in the "preview"/vertical slice build.
legacyzero
Banned
Truth be told, I was really wondering (while watching early footage of DS2,) how the old gen consoles would run these games, seeing as it looked so good. And were'nt there a lot of people complaining during the beta about performance?
I can certainly see them scaling the game back to improve that performance, whether it substantially, or not, for those consoles.
What's bullshit, is not saying so.
I tend to lean towards the optimistic in my speculation, but, honestly, a PC version with all of these graphical features game would explain all these discrepancies.
Both the final console build and the PC TGS trailer have the exact same geometry and textures. What likely happened is From designed their game engine for PC/next-gen, then had to rip out many of these features last second for performance reasons. From needs some more time to finalize all of these features for the PC version that is releasing at the end of April.
I agree.
- Delaying the PC release 6 weeks as From finalized the graphical features that didn't make the console version.
- Not showing any footage or information on the PC version during that time period.
- The immediate downgrade in visuals between trade shows in January and console footage in February.
- 60 FPS/1080p trailers/demos with all of the effects in place.
- Sconces placed throughout the entire game for the, now useless, torch.
Both the final console build and the PC TGS trailer have the exact same geometry and textures. What likely happened is From designed their game engine for PC/next-gen, then had to rip out many of these features last second for performance reasons. From needs some more time to finalize all of these features for the PC version that is releasing at the end of April.
I agree.
I will hold off until a steam sale.
Fair enough, your points are all valid.
What are you talking about?
EDIT:
Nevermind. A quick look at your post history regarding the Dark Souls 2 downgrades is all I need to see to know where you're coming from.
Yes they have. People seem to think that just because the game is good, it doesn't matter if From lies to and misleads the community.
zephervack
Member
You mean the network test?
There is plenty of videos of it in Youtube, and im sure there are playthroughs of that area in the retail on Youtube as well.
If someone can provide me with timed links to Youtube videos I can make some comparison GIFs, I dont do it because I will get spoiled if I start going through dozens of Playthroughs until I find the same section
Regardless of however good the game may be, it does not excuse From.
People defending them, stop. From lied. It's simple. All we want is them to answer, a simple paragraph, even would help, a sentence, rather than the media blackout they are doing now.
Imagine watching a Blu-ray movie in a store, on one of the TV's, then going "Ok, I'll buy that movie"
You buy it. You pop it in. The colors are washed out, the detail isn't there, it's blurry, perhaps even some artifacting. Wouldn't you be upset?
People defending them, stop. From lied. It's simple. All we want is them to answer, a simple paragraph, even would help, a sentence, rather than the media blackout they are doing now.
Imagine watching a Blu-ray movie in a store, on one of the TV's, then going "Ok, I'll buy that movie"
You buy it. You pop it in. The colors are washed out, the detail isn't there, it's blurry, perhaps even some artifacting. Wouldn't you be upset?
So we're on the same page then? We do want From to comment on these changes after all, that's a big part of what this thread is about.
And I think this is the thing the naysayers aren't understanding. No one expects the PS3 to be some super computer, but when you specifically show off builds and then change it at the last moment without saying anything, after months of twich previews and interviews, go fuck yourself. You don't deserve my business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AHSCyNUKgg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvdmN3tUbtY
Looks pretty similar to me.
did you pay 60$ for Dark Souls 1?
also, people are posting screenshots of worse of the worst, anyone can find horrific screenshots of most games that are this big.
Like for instance, look at this picture of Uncharted 2, supposedly one of the best console games graphically
I think that are freaking out about the torch mechanics are also kind of silly. Torches can be super helpful in certain areas.
I understand that you guys are upset that the game doesn't look as pretty as advertised. That sucks, but the massive hyperbole in this thread is ridiculous. The game looks stellar in certain parts, and if you are a souls fan, then you will most likely like this game.
So if you get the superior upgraded PC version as a result of all this it makes everything okay.
Yeah, thanks for confirming my suspicions about some of you.
sublimit
Banned
XANDER CAGE
Member
You know, I've been thinking about the Whopper analogy. To be honest, it does make sense, if this was you experience with the Whopper:
There's a local Burger King near you that not many people know about that does AMAZING burgers. Like these patties are some kind of crazy Kobe beef fast food magic. They recently got more popular thanks to their version of the Whopper. The manager of this Burger King is kind of shady and apparently
runs a bunch of pyramid schemes on the side, but you know the line cooks are talented people so you put up with it.
Well, now they're advertising a new Whopper, Whopper 2. Whopper 2 is basically the Whopper, but they're going nuts talking about how good the new bun is. The old bun wasn't bad, but it certainly wasn't exceptional. It did its job: delivering the patty. The manager of this Burger King and a few of the line cooks have been doing a press tour showing off Whopper 2 and the bun looks amazing. The line cooks keep saying that the new bun is really important to Whopper 2. A few people have gotten to try the bun at a restaurant franchising trade show and have confirmed that god damn, the patty is still good and the bun is great too.
The day is almost here. Whopper 2 is about to come out, but a few food critics and people who managed to find a burger early are saying that the bun isn't there anymore. The burger is still good, but this bun they've been hyping up is just gone. As a matter of fact, the bun they're using kinda looks the same - if not worse - than the original bun. You go to the BK to see what the fuss is about. You order the Whopper 2 and damn, that patty is still so good. You could eat these all day. However, your suspicions are confirmed: the bun really is gone.
You go to the counter to ask the manager what the problem is, but he's not there. The line cooks won't answer you. You can see empty boxes of the new, better bun leaning against the wall in the kitchen, but the one in your hand definitely isn't one. Confused, you turn to some other customers. "Who cares, dude? The burger is still good!" A bunch of people yell. One table is full of people on their phones tweeting at the manager that the new bun sucks. Every time you ask someone if they know why the bun was taken off at the last minute, people arrive to tell you that the patty is still good and ask why you hate Burger King. Why did you come to Burger King, asshole? You know they lie about buns all the time. It's not a big deal. The patty is still good.
There's a local Burger King near you that not many people know about that does AMAZING burgers. Like these patties are some kind of crazy Kobe beef fast food magic. They recently got more popular thanks to their version of the Whopper. The manager of this Burger King is kind of shady and apparently
runs a bunch of pyramid schemes on the side, but you know the line cooks are talented people so you put up with it.
Well, now they're advertising a new Whopper, Whopper 2. Whopper 2 is basically the Whopper, but they're going nuts talking about how good the new bun is. The old bun wasn't bad, but it certainly wasn't exceptional. It did its job: delivering the patty. The manager of this Burger King and a few of the line cooks have been doing a press tour showing off Whopper 2 and the bun looks amazing. The line cooks keep saying that the new bun is really important to Whopper 2. A few people have gotten to try the bun at a restaurant franchising trade show and have confirmed that god damn, the patty is still good and the bun is great too.
The day is almost here. Whopper 2 is about to come out, but a few food critics and people who managed to find a burger early are saying that the bun isn't there anymore. The burger is still good, but this bun they've been hyping up is just gone. As a matter of fact, the bun they're using kinda looks the same - if not worse - than the original bun. You go to the BK to see what the fuss is about. You order the Whopper 2 and damn, that patty is still so good. You could eat these all day. However, your suspicions are confirmed: the bun really is gone.
You go to the counter to ask the manager what the problem is, but he's not there. The line cooks won't answer you. You can see empty boxes of the new, better bun leaning against the wall in the kitchen, but the one in your hand definitely isn't one. Confused, you turn to some other customers. "Who cares, dude? The burger is still good!" A bunch of people yell. One table is full of people on their phones tweeting at the manager that the new bun sucks. Every time you ask someone if they know why the bun was taken off at the last minute, people arrive to tell you that the patty is still good and ask why you hate Burger King. Why did you come to Burger King, asshole? You know they lie about buns all the time. It's not a big deal. The patty is still good.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
Correct
...however, there's another rule that would/should come into effect as well:
Which would end with bans for most of the driveby shitposters who aren't even attempting to make a case. The sheer amount of people still not understanding what the campaign is about or making oversimplified posts amounting to "fuck you, play the game and shut up" is saddening. I know you're better than that, GAF.
legacyzero
Banned
Therein lies the problem. Promise -> Optimize -> Release is not something that happens very often, except lately. People are pissed because that process line is missing one crucial bullet.
Promise -> Optimize -> FUCKING TELL EVERYONE -> Release
I think once (if) people like TotalBiscuit (as much as I dislike the guy) get's a hold of it, we'll start seeing the truth. Won't be long now.
I don't think we should go "full lynch mob" (I don't think the person you quoted thinks that either), but it needs to be clear that the ball is in their court. Some people seem to think that we should notice the changes and be silent about them, which (in my opinion) is giving FROM/Namco way more courtesy than they deserve. They should be able to talk about their products honestly.
DrROBschiz
Member
From should have just made this a Next Gen title from the get go
This last gen cash in business is messy
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Indeed. I don't even know why we're giving these guys so much attention when they're not even trying to pay attention to what's going on.
Explain the good looking demo versions running fine on PS3 at TGS and press events.
Yep. We're the variety that pushes the companies to make the best products instead of sit idly and take whatever they throw at us
Whatever dude your comment sounds like you're out for blood. Do you own the game? Or is the PC version you are worried about?
Of course. But at the end of the day you were the one that purchased the Blu-Ray without doing any research.
The only people I have a problem with are the people who say "I wouldn't have purchased DS2 if I knew about these issues". These issues are relatively minor and would be obvious to someone if they just waited a few hours before rushing out and buying the game. Crap like the PS3 Skyrim issues are completely unacceptable, but this? If this is unacceptable to you, then don't buy games without reading impressions, viewing retail videos, or renting it first.
Feel free to complain, you have every right to. And you should. But I'm very apathetic to those who make ridiculous claims.
MHWilliams
Member
DrROBschiz
Member
Yeah me too
Someone did post a gif of the Mirror Knight fight from an apparent PS3 Demo....
But it was a demo. I mean .... the Beta was MUCH closer and I am SURE the focus of development was kn the PC version and that one clearly had the spotlight.
The whole argument is messy.
blitzcloud
Banned
did you pay 60$ for Dark Souls 1?
also, people are posting screenshots of worse of the worst, anyone can find horrific screenshots of most games that are this big.
Like for instance, look at this picture of Uncharted 2, supposedly one of the best console games graphically
I think that are freaking out about the torch mechanics are also kind of silly. Torches can be super helpful in certain areas.
I understand that you guys are upset that the game doesn't look as pretty as advertised. That sucks, but the massive hyperbole in this thread is ridiculous. The game looks stellar in certain parts, and if you are a souls fan, then you will most likely like this game.
Bad example of a map buddy.
that level was on rails with multiple environments. Can't ask for more.
Exactly.
"Hey, dedicated passionate fan base, the PS3/360 versions of the game have a different lighting method unlike that which has been shown in previous footage. And some redesigned assets. Otherwise, the content of Dark Souls 2 remains unchanged."
It isn't required, but it'd be courteous. And now, after launch having lied to people, they do need to say something about it.
I intended to pick up the PS3 version, because it looked so good (graphically) in addition to having Dark Souls' gameplay. It seemed like a AAA treatment of the franchise. Now I'm waiting for the PC version, but From's attitude to this is turning me off.
Indeed. I don't even know why we're giving these guys so much attention when they're not even trying to pay attention to what's going on.
Explain the good looking demo versions running fine on PS3 at TGS and press events.
Indeed. We're the variety that pushes the companies to make the best products instead of sit idly and take whatever they throw at us
you know that this is exactly what they are going to say, if they even say something.
"We had to downgrade the graphical quality to make certain that the framerate was stable in certain areas"
DrROBschiz
Member
Indeed. I don't even know why we're giving these guys so much attention when they're not even trying to pay attention to what's going on.
Explain the good looking demo versions running fine on PS3 at TGS and press events.
Yep. We're the variety that pushes the companies to make the best products instead of sit idly and take whatever they throw at us
We need proof the TGS Demo was on a PS3
And even then it was a damn demo
Beta is a much better measuring stick and while there seems to be a downgrade from the Beta at least it would have been apparent that adjustments had to be made to satisfy performance.
Especially if you were one of the people to experience performance issues during the Beta
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
It's not our fault that the same areas From showed in the reveal and consequent demos look that bad in the retail game.
The thing is, From just showed us that we can't trust the direct-to-consumer events either.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
He's still missing the point, the fact of the matter is devs communicate when cutbacks have to be made and give greater than a few weeks for news to get out before the end product ends up in consumers' hands.
This would be fine if this thread was just about E3.
XANDER CAGE
Member
well they cocked that right up didn't they?
Raven77
Member
At this point, by FROM and Namco not saying anything, they are admitting guilt.
Enough people have blasted their twitter accounts and enough news outlets are finally picking up on this that they have definitely heard about the controversy. What do we expect them to say "We deceived you. Sorry"?
If they have no ethical reason to explain what happened, then they will say nothing at all. And guess what, so far its been nothing but silence...
Enough people have blasted their twitter accounts and enough news outlets are finally picking up on this that they have definitely heard about the controversy. What do we expect them to say "We deceived you. Sorry"?
If they have no ethical reason to explain what happened, then they will say nothing at all. And guess what, so far its been nothing but silence...
Most companies don't demo E3 "bullshit" builds right up to release -- which is what FROM did essentially.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
dark10x confirmed to us that he played the game on PS3.
Then From shouldn't have kept using old, much better looking footage to advertise the game.
DrROBschiz
Member
Even if the PC version delivers?
Its the damn lead platform and the last gens are basically a port. Its similar to playing Titanfall on 360 man
Except even the consumer events were demoing the lighting gameplay mechanics and improved effects/textures.
Yes. However, people did research, and did read reviews. The Network test from last year, had these graphics, as did the demos shown before release. As does the trailer shown on the games own page.
There was no way to know, in advance, this would happen. That is what upset people. If From had said, two weeks before release "Ok yeah guys, here is what the game really looks like", this thread would NOT EXIST.
But to say absolutely nothing? That is why people are upset.
DrROBschiz
Member
IF the footage is REAL and represents and ACTUAL version of the game
Like say the PC version... how is it deceptive again?
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