Stone Ocean
Member
Feel free to provide proof to prove it wrong.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
#DarkSoulsDowngrade and #YOULIED \\ a.k.a You got some splainin' to do, Namco
- Thread starter Havel
- Start date
DrROBschiz
Member
Have the differences between 360 and PS3 been cataloged?
I would imagine they are mostly the same outside of the mentioned framerate/tearing differences
zephervack
Member
I hope they put the lightning back, Im not expecting the graphics of the Reveal anymore, no one actually played that version, only exists in the IGN preview video.
But the TGS and January version show that lightning.
Thats all I want to hear, that they couldnt put it on the consoles but remains intact in the PC version, even if its just the lightning.
pretty done
Member
Yea let me go buy a capture card brb
I dunno, PS3 version here. It looked closer to the top screenshot but obviously not that good. Framerate is pretty bad throughout the whole fight, especially when he summons someone in.
jacksepticeye
Member
I hate seeing people try to dismiss it (not just on GAF) so frivolously and then others not even acknowledging it at all just because the game is still good or because it's Dark Souls and it shouldn't be talked about negatively.
It's fine to still love the game and enjoy the shit out of it in its current form, I know I am. I adore the Souls games but it doesn't mean I can't accept that there's a very obvious downgrade and that it's bullshit
The worst part is still seeing Fromsoft use the footage of the old build to promote the game even after coming out and looking nothing like that. It's selling the game as something it's not.
Regardless of how much merit you put into that is up to you but it's still bullshit
It's fine to still love the game and enjoy the shit out of it in its current form, I know I am. I adore the Souls games but it doesn't mean I can't accept that there's a very obvious downgrade and that it's bullshit
The worst part is still seeing Fromsoft use the footage of the old build to promote the game even after coming out and looking nothing like that. It's selling the game as something it's not.
Regardless of how much merit you put into that is up to you but it's still bullshit
Maybe the ps2/xbox generation Splinter Cells. But Ubisoft is one of the few devs that actually differentiate between consoles and PCs. Doesn't matter when they were specifically showing off the PS3 version on PS3s.
To be fair all you have to do is show any footage/screenshot from the dozens of other people who've streamed the game already.
Can anyone link me to a gameplay video from the console release for the area in picture 5 and 6?
The more I watch the 60 FPS/1080p TGS trailer the more I think Bandai has just been showing off the PC version the entire time. There is also some tertiary evidence that these effects will make it into the final PC release.
I will go down picture by picture. I've downsampled the footage to 720p so the page doesn't become impossible to load.
Picture 1
- Same geometry/textures as the console release.
- Darker lighting.
- Looks like much higher-resolution textures and possibly more emphasis on the normal maps than the console version (speculative).
- Specular Highlights and Normal Maps less pronounced than the demo version, different geometry textures as well. Supports the theory that the demo build was a completely separate vertical slice from the actual game.
Picture 2
- Love the atmosphere created by the darkness and through the use of the torch.
- Same geometry/textures as the console release.
Picture 3
- This trailer really shows off the particle effects. Are they this impressive in the console version?
- Same geometry/textures as the console release.
Picture 4
- Where is the aliasing? I didn't notice any in the entire trailer.
- Specular highlights on the blade (probably in the console version as well).
- Now that is the level of detail in Dark Souls that I have come to expect.
Picture 5
- Gorgeous.
- In the console release, the lighting in this area is more toned down and almost has a green hue.
Picture 6
- Two pictures here.
- More particle effects.
- Fog effect is completely different from the console version.
You can see a video of the fight here. The screenshots are a bit misleading because one is during a lightning strike (when the shadows are exaggerated) and the other is not. The final version doesn't look as nice as the demo version, but it's still not nearly as bad as I thought it would be.
Oddly enough, the worst difference for me is the knight himself.
CadetMahoney
Member
zephervack
Member
A cellphone picture would suffice, we can see if the green/grey hue is gone as well as the shadowing on walls.
It would be greatly appreciated.
I see. It all makes sense now.
I won't be taking part in your campaign but could I suggest something?
#YOULIED - I get it. It's suppose to be like YOU DIED.
Doesn't make it sound any less annoying or cringe worthy. It's also a direct attack. Are you guys attacking Namco? Or are you trying to get answers from them?
It's a compressed screenshot if you can call that fishy. (Surely from a video feed?) You can see the difference in shadows and the likes however so it serves its purpose IMO.
jim2point0
Banned
Because the game is good. Because it's obvious that the consoles would never be powerful enough to actually run the footage they showed. It's totally fine that they touted their amazing lighting all the time but never actually INTENDED to use it. Nobody actually cares about graphics in video games anyways. In my opinion, developers should create unrealistic demos and bullshots as a standard practice. Just to get people hyped up about the game. Then give us hot garbage when the game is actually released. Doesn't matter because the game is fun.
cascardian
Member
Well, reading over my post again, I apologise for coming on a bit strong. I don't want to discourage discussion. It is simply disappointing to see the same talking points, which have already been dismantled to death, brought up again and again and often in a drive-by fashion.
As for your post, you were basically telling people that they were wasting their time, which is both their prerogative and is not actually a waste, as it has already managed to achieve some things and there is no way you can reasonably say the complainants have no ground to stand on. The arguments are there in complete clarity, one simply has to read them. You also basically said it was silly that people are able to compartmentalise, which is just... strange, given that our brains are perfectly capable of this and that it is a vital ability for a fully functioning adult. I'm sorry if I'm misrepresenting your stance, but that's what I got from your posts. Feel free to criticise and clarify.
It just seemed to me that you had hard time comprehending that people are actually willing to stand up for a cause tied to a product, regardless of whether they actually enjoy the product itself or not. One can enjoy a product without agreeing with a company's conduct regarding it. Reading the comments of the detractors here, it almost seems like people make this out to be rocket science, which it is definitely not.
We're all consumers here, and 'whining' about it is simply a very effective way to make our concerns heard. Whether this fits other people's sensibilities or not is irrelevant. You can just ignore it and move on if it doesn't interest you. It seems to me like you're still thinking this thing won't achieve anything of note. Although it would not constitute a surprise, I guess, it would still be an achievement if we were to induce some sort of reaction. As I've said before, even mere awareness is a success. A reaction, heck, some form of admittance would be enormous. It's a building the culture we want gaming to have kind of thing, and one has to acknowledge that this happens only in baby steps.
At the same time, we are not obligated to turn this into a general crusade against all instances of false advertising. To expect that is what I personally would actually deem silly. We're interested in Dark Souls II in here and congregate our efforts into this thread. If people want to turn this into a general movement, so be it, but this thread is about Dark Souls II and nothing else--as indicated by the title.
DrROBschiz
Member
No one is dismissing it.
I think people are just realistically chalking it up to hardware limitations
That said there are varying levels of debate about whether the PS3 demos/versions shown close to release.... there is a lot of back and forth and lack of facts here.
What I do expect is the PC version to be what it was originally expected to be minus whatever gameplay tweaks they have made in regards to Beta feedback (torch mechanics etc..)
I see. It all makes sense now.
I won't be taking part in your campaign but could I suggest something?
#YOULIED - I get it. It's suppose to be like YOU DIED.
Doesn't make it sound any less annoying or cringe worthy. It's also a direct attack. Are you guys attacking Namco? Or are you trying to get answers from them?
With that I completely agree with, and already stated I didn't like it before the thread was made. Not up to me though.
I just want to see (or at least read) more about the PC version and know why they changed it. I'm not mad, I'm curious.
Thanks, edited my post to reflect that the TGS trailer had the same geometry/textures as retail.
sublimit
Banned
I think it's very reasonable that some fans demand an answer but on the other hand i don't think we can force FS or Namco to give us an answer if they don't want to.I don't think they would be comfortable to start a "conversation" with fans especially right upon the game's launch.
I see. It all makes sense now.
I won't be taking part in your campaign but could I suggest something?
#YOULIED - I get it. It's suppose to be like YOU DIED.
Doesn't make it sound any less annoying or cringe worthy. It's also a direct attack. Are you guys attacking Namco? Or are you trying to get answers from them?
They'll have to give answers sooner or later. Then can do it now, with fans making 'punny' references to their games, or later when it's during some internet lawsuit.
They haven't said a word regarding it. And, frankly, that's disgusting. I personally have no problem with calling them out on their lies, and allowing them to deal with it. They've gotten far more courtesy than they deserve already.
Polioliolio
Member
Glad to see the thread still going.
Any official word yet?
Feeling a little better about the evidence that the PC version will retain the lighting and whatnot.. Still not fair for the console guys though.. and a little communication would have solved everything.
Any official word yet?
Feeling a little better about the evidence that the PC version will retain the lighting and whatnot.. Still not fair for the console guys though.. and a little communication would have solved everything.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Reviews should totally have pulled this up. And the complete lack of cute corgis and a machine gun. Smh at gaming jurnalosm.
Raven77
Member
Sorry I'm at work so I can't go directly to the sites but google "dark souls 2 impressions february 2014". You will find many many impressions from various game networks with screenshots, etc. It looked mostly like the "better" stuff that FROM put out. This was just about a month ago.
Also, changing all these art assets would take a LOT of time. This means that when they let people play the game back in late 2013 they must have willingly let them play the better looking version, all the while knowing that the art assets, layouts, levels, etc. were being changed for the final release. You can't rebuild a game in 4 months. I see no other explanation but a blatant bait-and-switch.
That or you would have to say that FROM managed to completely change all of the levels in a extremely short time, WHILE retexturing them. Quite the feat...
I... think you've set your expectations for this campaign a bit too high. :lol
Stone Ocean
Member
Yeah, that looks much better than the screen makes it out to be.
Still not close to what was shown before though.
DrROBschiz
Member
Well dude
They likely chalked it up to the difference between PC/Console
Thats what I did in my head well before release. I actually anticipated a decent gap and only bought the PS3 version because I just couldn't wait another month and a half.
DrROBschiz
Member
Seems unlikely
Couldn't the differences be chalked up the changing the configuration of the graphics? Much like adjusting various effects on a PC game?
CuckFupertino
Banned
So you're telling me if you knew they changed the lighting system beforehand, you would not have bought the game?
You're telling me you want a refund because the game doesn't look quite as pretty as it did in previews?
If that's what you're telling me, then tell me.
Raven77
Member
I really think you need to just watch the gifs. The castle is different on the bridge scene, literally geometrically different. Pillars are different, stair wells, vases, entire rooms are missing tons of objects like desks, wall torches, etc.
It is not just lighting, it is not just "pc effects". It is rebuilt.
ThatGayWolf
Member
QFE
Really?
Because a tweet would suffice. "Yeah, we had to make some downgrades, sorry" or "We are sorry if we mislead anyone that the console versions would have PC assets" or something.
Really my only expectation is that they admit "Yeah, we messed up". The fact that they have been radio silent about it makes it evident that they know they messed up, but instead they just haven't said anything about it. That's where I'm annoyed. They decided to take advantage of misleading publicity. Ok. They decided to severly downgrade the console versions. Ok. They decided not to say anything about it, before, during or after the release. And, now, they don't even have a decency to apologize to a fan base that views them with complete adoration.
Every day they ignore it the situation becomes worse.
EDIT:
Oh, I didn't realize you bolded the 'internet lawsuit' thing. I didn't mean this campaign, just that it'll grow into worse publicity. I have no desire to travel down that route, at all. They produced a good game. People just want answers, and whilst they aren't owed them, I think From should be compliant.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
I see DrROBschiz is leading the From Defense Force.
Apparently expecting to get the game the company advertises is now considered "entitlement".
But they are stupid. Maybe that's harsh, but you should know by now that games rarely look as good as the screenshots and preview builds at events. Sure, voice your opinion, there's nothing wrong with that. But it's on you for buying a game before reading/seeing retail impressions. Especially when there's no need. This game isn't rare; it's not sold out.
If you can't wait the few hours to check impressions then that's on you. Especially if something like lighting will tip you one way or another.
DrROBschiz
Member
Lol
Whatever man
Game is easily worth it even in the reduced form that I EXPECTED to get from these old ass consoles.
Cant believe you guys but the discussion really cant go significantly in either direction until we see that PC version or until FROM comments
Whatever man
Game is easily worth it even in the reduced form that I EXPECTED to get from these old ass consoles.
Cant believe you guys but the discussion really cant go significantly in either direction until we see that PC version or until FROM comments
So you just spent ages debating people in this thread and you STILL think we somehow think the overall game sucks?
I didn't buy it. Was waiting for PC. The torch mechanic, if done right, would have added a whole new layer to the game. Having to choose light or fight would've been a nice wrinkle. So yes, the "graphics" had me interested again, as I wouldn't of had any if, and has, turned in to Dark Souls 1.5.
This isn't about who bought what, this about people being able to buy something advertised as something it's not, something better. I just want accountability.
Raven77
Member
Just because you had low expectations doesn't mean that a company selling you one thing, and giving you another thing is ethically right. They lied to consumers. No way around that fact.
That isn't the argument though. The only gameplay-related argument that people are consistently making is the unfortunate loss of the darkness to both the gameplay and atmosphere.
No one is arguing that Dark Souls II is a bad game, just diminished in overall graphical quality from what was advertised.
I can't believe you expected the game to look worse than that it did during the playable beta that ran on these actual old ass consoles.
I remember seeing a lot of people complaining during the beta that it was too dark and had poor framerate.
I remember hearing that a lot during Operation Rainfall, and I mean a lot.
"You people act so entitled wanting a company to release games! They gave you Mario, now shut up already". (real quote)
You really just have to ignore those that are against you and stick with what you want or believe because there will always be people telling you they disagree and even labeling you as crazy or extreme.
Zomba13
Member
After Dark Souls 1 on PC I don't believe FROM will manage a super good looking and well running PC version that has better lighting than the console version.
I don't care if they say the PC is the lead platform or if they say it will look better. This is FROM. The company that made the rendering resolution of Dark Souls locked at 720p or something stupid and needed a modder to literally save the game.
I expect the PC version to be exactly the same as the console version but with the option for resolution (as in rendering resolution) and maybe better textures or texture filtering. IT will have the same lighting and geometry as the console version. It won't look like the screenshots on steam or GMG or the website or the box that show the better lighting.
I see DrROBschiz is leading the From Defense Force.
Apparently expecting to get the game the company advertises is now considered "entitlement".
Ironically, I think most of the people pushing for an acknowledgment would also identify as fanboys/fangirls of the Souls series.
Yep, but we won't get comments until we make noise. I'm mainly following this thread to see what the companies have to say.
They advertised the game as better than it was on PS3 hardware. That's them lying. None of the reviews are reporting this, and are in fact calling us crazy along with half the replies in here. So what you're saying is you've never bought a game day one?
DrROBschiz
Member
No
But its crazy to me that people feel duped when every multiplatform game with a PC/Nextgen version has similar gaps.
Unfortunately there is the debate surrounding the BETA/Preview builds that have yet to be commented on by FROM or resolved and thats a shame.
It does seem clear that the Beta was more graphically intensive from the previous posts (but not by such a huge margin) but its also clear that the Beta had several issues with framerate and even the full game still has some.
I find it hard to believe that anyone feels surprised by this given the lead up to it. I suppose if you had a super clean playthrough of the Beta it might stick out to you more but that wasn't universally the case by a long shot
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
I see DrROBschiz is leading the From Defense Force.
Apparently expecting to get the game the company advertises is now considered "entitlement".
Isn't the F word a bannable offense on GAF?
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll