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David Jaffe sets Twitter on fire after calling Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom “bland and old looking”

OK.... I stood in line for the switch at a toys r us with 40 other people when it came out. Graphically this is exactly like botw.
I'd say it looks a bit better than BotW. To me, what's important is the amount of polish, content, game mechanics, world interactivity and level design.

I mean look at the Horizon games, they're beautiful, but all the work went in to making the game look good, but it plays like every other Ubi game and open world game we've had for more than a decade.
 

Marvel14

Banned
It's the gameplay stupid.

When I was 6 i though videogames were graphics, at 10, I thought graphics were the most important thing, at 16 I thought they were important but not enough to make a game good or great. By 24 I realised a game could have so so graphics as long as the gameplay was superlative and it would still be great.

I'm so glad I matured.

Oh and TOTK graphics are good. Not PS4 level but great for the hardware they're on.
 
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bender

What time is it?
It's the gameplay stupid.

When I was 6 i though videogames were graphics, at 10, I thought graphics were the most important thing, at 16 I thought they were important but not enough to make a game good or great. By 24 I realised a game could have so so graphics as long as the gameplay was superlative and it would still be great.

I'm so glad I matured.

Oh and TOTK graphics are good. Not PS4 level but great for the hardware they're on.

You are well ahead of the curve.
 

sloppyjoe_gamer

Gold Member
My apologies about your eyesight.

This is on my 65 in Bravia OLED....my eyesight is just fine and i bet his is too.

oKOSkV3.jpg
 

cormack12

Gold Member
He's obviously got a point. Whereas with Links Awakening you can really appreciate the art (despite the blur banding), I don't feel BOTW or ToTK (from what I've seen) are 'beautiful' either in art style or despite technical shortcomings, just inm the same way I don't consider Genchin or Persona 'beautiful'. The switch already struggled with XC. Link's Awakening was great, Animal Crossing is great, Mario Odyssey is a bit up and down but still miles better.

While we can appreciate the technical accomplishment of this game running on the switch, Witcher 3 is what the benchmark is graphically for a first party still. Sure, it's doing a lot more with physics under the hood but is it really enough? We compromise using the creation engine of course but not to this extent.

The simple fact is that while the Switch translates well to their core soft art franchises, if they are going to expand their other IPs in breadth and scope it's not fair to expect those fans to be happy with 'best efforts despoite the hardware'. If they want to deliver those experiences then they have to provide the hardware to run them. Commit to one or the other. It's not fair to say well, this is all we can get out the truly awful hardware so you're going to have to be happy with it. No one is expecting Forbidden West visuals or RDR2 but there is a baseline that art style doesn't mask.

The argument is not should we be impressed that the Switch has ToTK running on it, the argument is shouldn't Nintendo be providing hardware that allows the devs to make a game that appears it came post 2014 and not have to sacrifice basic graphic settings in order to get it to work.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
The argument is not should we be impressed that the Switch has ToTK running on it, the argument is shouldn't Nintendo be providing hardware that allows the devs to make a game that appears it came post 2014 and not have to sacrifice basic graphic settings in order to get it to work.
Especially for $70 on their bread and butter game they know people will buckle over. In the same gen. Not even a next-gen tax excuse.
 

near

Gold Member
I haven't read any TotK reviews, but if they haven't honed in on the game's graphical fidelity or lack thereof, it doesn't surprise me, for a number of reasons. While Jaffe has a point, and it is a discussion worth having, I really don't think there is much to cover.

Nintendo games are generally very polished mechanically, and often have an art direction that compliments hardware limitations, that has simply been the case for a few generations now. It's also very hard to dissect the budget ceiling given to a lot of their projects for that very reason. So in most cases it is easy to assume that a game like Redfall cost more to make than TotK, and thus subject to more scrutiny in terms of performance and visual integrity, when in fact that might not be true or fair at all.

Also, no one watches a film on their phone and complains about resolution. People who play on the Switch just know the scope of how good a game will ultimately look, but when a game like TotK comes out, that has a beautiful art direction, and feels vibrant for the most part, there is very little to complain about.
 
Blocked since you think making fun of any race, or saying on a podcast that game breaking glitches in a game are a way to get black people into the cast of characters. Or that cancel culture is at play because I, as an individual, think making light of ethnicity for a punchline is a step too far.

Enjoy though.
Wow, that's a lot of stuff I didn't say, imply or even know what the hell you're talking about, but go ahead and cancel, I mean block, me.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
Comparing Pokemon S&V with Zelda... This man should put out at least one game worth something 😂

Literally all reviews are giving it credit for the exact opposite: Being a technical marvel in all aspects, it even looks better than BOTW with way more on screen at once.

Someone finds him a job or something, please...

Remind me again the last time Jaffe made anything worth caring about.
He hasn't in my book, first GOW is barely a functional game in many aspects, if that game releases today it would be smashed into hell as soon as it shows up, far from an all time classic, far from playable for any average gamer and not even because of difficulty, it's just a dated design full of collision bugs. He has no right to say a thing about other's work when his isn't on par to anything good. His game didn't survive a single gen and it came at the end of it, it tells you everything.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
Guess what? The world doesn't care that much about graphics. See GTAV, Minecraft, CoD, The Sims, PUBG, WoW, LoL, DotA, CS, Pokemon, Mario Kart, Fortnite...
Well, Sony fans seem to care a lot... Their priorities are: Graphics > Story (can be switched) > Tech tech tech >>>>>>>>>>> anything else >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gameplay (yet optional).

Curiously enough they only care when excluding PC.

This guy criticizing Switch graphics because they're not like PS5, oh no!
 

davidjaffe

The Fucking MAN.
I'll talk about it on my streaming show later today. I'm amazed people think I was saying something controversial. I make it clear I really like the game and am playing the shit out of it. I'm just saying the visuals are fine but in some places they are downright ugly by today's standards (including switch standards) and I was just mentioning it's weird we're not seeing more chat about it.

But people took at as me 'looking for clicks' (on what?!? A twitter post?!?! Who cares-) and me beating up Nintendo. So dumb.
 
Well, Sony fans seem to care a lot... Their priorities are: Graphics > Story (can be switched) > Tech tech tech >>>>>>>>>>> anything else >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gameplay (yet optional).

Curiously enough they only care when excluding PC.

This guy criticizing Switch graphics because they're not like PS5, oh no!
Sony fans are happy with pretty games with limited functionality, so they see things with a superficial lens most of the time. As long as it look gud, they all happeh.

You'd think more so-called experienced gamers would be up in arms about Horizon's lack of interactive gameplay elements, but they're happy with a game looking current gen while playing last gen.
 

Luigi Mario

Member
He hasn't in my book, first GOW is barely a functional game in many aspects, if that game releases today it would be smashed into hell as soon as it shows up, far from an all time classic, far from playable for any average gamer and not even because of difficulty, it's just a dated design full of collision bugs. He has no right to say a thing about other's work when his isn't on par to anything good. His game didn't survive a single gen and it came at the end of it, it tells you everything.
Well, Sony fans seem to care a lot... Their priorities are: Graphics > Story (can be switched) > Tech tech tech >>>>>>>>>>> anything else >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gameplay (yet optional).
Curiously enough they only care when excluding PC.
This guy criticizing Switch graphics because they're not like PS5, oh no!

Imagine being this bootyblasted over a relatively tame Twitter opinion of a has-been.
 
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Days like these...

Have a Blessed Day
He's obviously got a point. Whereas with Links Awakening you can really appreciate the art (despite the blur banding), I don't feel BOTW or ToTK (from what I've seen) are 'beautiful' either in art style or despite technical shortcomings, just inm the same way I don't consider Genchin or Persona 'beautiful'. The switch already struggled with XC. Link's Awakening was great, Animal Crossing is great, Mario Odyssey is a bit up and down but still miles better.

While we can appreciate the technical accomplishment of this game running on the switch, Witcher 3 is what the benchmark is graphically for a first party still. Sure, it's doing a lot more with physics under the hood but is it really enough? We compromise using the creation engine of course but not to this extent.

The simple fact is that while the Switch translates well to their core soft art franchises, if they are going to expand their other IPs in breadth and scope it's not fair to expect those fans to be happy with 'best efforts despoite the hardware'. If they want to deliver those experiences then they have to provide the hardware to run them. Commit to one or the other. It's not fair to say well, this is all we can get out the truly awful hardware so you're going to have to be happy with it. No one is expecting Forbidden West visuals or RDR2 but there is a baseline that art style doesn't mask.

The argument is not should we be impressed that the Switch has ToTK running on it, the argument is shouldn't Nintendo be providing hardware that allows the devs to make a game that appears it came post 2014 and not have to sacrifice basic graphic settings in order to get it to work.
You don't get to control the argument. TotK looks good for the hardware it's on. Cope more.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Especially for $70 on their bread and butter game they know people will buckle over. In the same gen. Not even a next-gen tax excuse.
It's funny that people have brought up Rockstar in this thread saying Rockstar could do better graphics in the PS3 era because they have a lot more devs. Well, Rockstar didnt pass the costs down to the consumer. They charged us $60 for GTAV and RDR2 and will charge $70 for their next game.

For $70, Nintendo couldve hired all the help they needed to improve graphics if they were able to. Clearly their handheld is not capable enough which again is very funny because whenever I call it a handheld in sales thread, people get upset and insist on referring to it as a console.
 

nemiroff

Gold Member
I have a RTX4090 as my daily driver and I still enjoy the game a lot. Sometimes I even like how it looks.. at least its art..
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Why is it shocking? PS5 games get praised even when they're just PS4 games with extra bells and whistles.
This is true. There was a thread here yesterday about how Ratchet is arguably the best looking game on the PS5 despite releasing two years ago during the launch window. We are almost 3 years in, and games are releasing looking like PS4 games, worse PLAYING like PS4 games, and devs are handing out 88s and 95s with gay abandon. Standards have become so low and expectations from next gen games are so low that no one really knows what to expect from PS5 games.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
It's funny that people have brought up Rockstar in this thread saying Rockstar could do better graphics in the PS3 era because they have a lot more devs. Well, Rockstar didnt pass the costs down to the consumer. They charged us $60 for GTAV and RDR2 and will charge $70 for their next game.

For $70, Nintendo couldve hired all the help they needed to improve graphics if they were able to. Clearly their handheld is not capable enough which again is very funny because whenever I call it a handheld in sales thread, people get upset and insist on referring to it as a console.
It literally is a handheld. It uses mobile processors like handhelds. I could hook up my Vita to the TV, that does not make it a console. It's PR blurred lines reserved for mental gymnastics.
 
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RoboFu

One of the green rats
Now show it in motion with the atrocious shimmering due to aliasing.

Today on Hyperbolic Posting Views or HPV...


a·tro·cious

adjective

  1. horrifyingly wicked.
    "atrocious cruelties"
    • of a very poor quality; extremely bad or unpleasant.
      "he attempted an atrocious imitation of my English accent"
 
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sloppyjoe_gamer

Gold Member
Now show it in motion with the atrocious shimmering due to aliasing.

If you're 100% focused on graphics being the main thing that you look for and base your enjoyment of a title on, then sure. It's really not something that everyone focuses on while playing.

Even PS5 games that are critically acclaimed have their issues if you look hard enough. I just don't see the point if the game overall is enjoyable.
 
It's ok for what is has to work with, but sweet lawdy jesus I'd love the BotW art direction with a beefier machine. It's a serious bummer we may never get something like that again from Nintendo.
 

BlackTron

Member
He's right, we do like to judge graphics differently based on system, it's like a conspiracy. Nobody even complained when Super Mario Land 2's graphics were bland and old looking compared to contemporary games on other systems, like Super Mario Bros. 3. In fact, Mario Land 2's score wasn't affected by this at all. Nintendo gets a free pass every time, I tell you!
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
If you're 100% focused on graphics being the main thing that you look for and base your enjoyment of a title on, then sure. It's really not something that everyone focuses on while playing.

Even PS5 games that are critically acclaimed have their issues if you look hard enough. I just don't see the point if the game overall is enjoyable.
It is just that when you do have 6 years between titles and you have a lot of the core of the game done you can tweak and change but you are not starting from scratch there are some things that can be improved for a 10/10 sequel to a 10/10 game that builds upon that quite a bit.

Look at the screenshot davidjaffe davidjaffe posted, do you see the texture tiling on the water surface? Not talking about real-time GI here, but with some minimal impact to the graphics devs the texture artists should be able to hide this more.
 
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For $70, Nintendo couldve hired all the help they needed to improve graphics if they were able to. Clearly their handheld is not capable enough which again is very funny because whenever I call it a handheld in sales thread, people get upset and insist on referring to it as a console.

Imho….

Switch 2 should be a handheld that you can dock to your TV

They should simultaneously release a Switch 2 “Pro” that is docked only, with a separate controller packed in (no handheld) and much more powerful and release both at the same time

Switch 2 - $299

Switch 2 Pro - $499

Basically I want a switch that has a much bigger difference in docked vs handheld power and for them to take full advantage of 4k60 for docked
 

zcaa0g

Banned
If you're 100% focused on graphics being the main thing that you look for and base your enjoyment of a title on, then sure. It's really not something that everyone focuses on while playing.

Even PS5 games that are critically acclaimed have their issues if you look hard enough. I just don't see the point if the game overall is enjoyable.


It's not so much the graphics per se as we knew what we were getting, it's the fidelity. I just find the shimmering when in motion quite distracting.
 

zcaa0g

Banned
Today on Hyperbolic Posting Views or HPV...


a·tro·cious

adjective

  1. horrifyingly wicked.
    "atrocious cruelties"
    • of a very poor quality; extremely bad or unpleasant.
      "he attempted an atrocious imitation of my English accent"

Atrocious response.
 

Neff

Member
- Says 'gameplay is the most important thing in games and graphics don't matter' but brings up graphical issues in a game which is OVERFLOWING with fresh, novel, varied gameplay anyway
- Attempts to force a hypothetical argument into the mouths of people who are keeping their fucking mouths shut, thank you
- Cherry picks a shit shot from a shit-looking area

What an unbelievably pathetic prick
 

Nydius

Member
Standards have become so low and expectations from next gen games are so low that no one really knows what to expect from PS5 games.
SlimySnake straight spitting facts.

Outside of the rare gem like R&C Rift Apart or Horizon FW: Burning Shores, I really don’t know what to make of this generation. It’s still mostly cross-gen and the “next gen only” games we keep getting on both platforms play worse than cross-gen titles (looking at you, Gotham Knights, Forspoken, and Redfall).

This generation really feels like it’s little more than an extension of the PS4 Pro, Xbox One X, except with native SSDs. Meanwhile over on PC it’s just a mess of unoptimized nonsense.
 

GrayDock

Member
Although I think the visuals are OK for the HW/scope of the game, the problem for me is the immersion break. ZTotK is so good that you get 'in the zone', the holy grail of the entertainment, a lot, but then, the frame rate drops, a npc pops in while you're walking toward them, rocks, trees, npcs, campfires, and enemies slowly appear when you glide... Those moments, that aren't rare, breaks the immersion, which, for me, make all those 10/10 reviews baffling.... It's an awesome game, goty for sure, but it isn't perfect.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
Imho….

Switch 2 should be a handheld that you can dock to your TV

They should simultaneously release a Switch 2 “Pro” that is docked only, with a separate controller packed in (no handheld) and much more powerful and release both at the same time

Switch 2 - $299

Switch 2 Pro - $499

Basically I want a switch that has a much bigger difference in docked vs handheld power and for them to take full advantage of 4k60 for docked
I was just talking to my friend about it the other day. Nintendo doesnt get that all their hardcore fans are now in their mid to late 30s if not older and can easily afford to pay $399 or $499 for a switch pro. They fucked up big time by not releasing a pro console. Easy money wasted there. I am not even a nintendo fan and i wouldve gladly paid $399 for a switch pro. maybe even $499. Not because i want it, but simply because i can afford to.

And yeah, they need to follow Phil's lead and release two SKUs at launch. They already have a handheld only switch lite that cant be docked. Technically they are already releasing two skus. No point handicapping one version because of the handheld TDP limit.
 

darrylgorn

Member
I think most sensible people agree with him on the graphics point. I mean, you really can sum up the look as BOTW with yellow trees.

But to me, what's far more egregious is the button mapping scheme. It's just embarrassingly stupid control design and should knock the score down at least two points.
 
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RoboFu

One of the green rats
I was just talking to my friend about it the other day. Nintendo doesnt get that all their hardcore fans are now in their mid to late 30s if not older and can easily afford to pay $399 or $499 for a switch pro. They fucked up big time by not releasing a pro console. Easy money wasted there. I am not even a nintendo fan and i wouldve gladly paid $399 for a switch pro. maybe even $499. Not because i want it, but simply because i can afford to.

And yeah, they need to follow Phil's lead and release two SKUs at launch. They already have a handheld only switch lite that cant be docked. Technically they are already releasing two skus. No point handicapping one version because of the handheld TDP limit.
I wouldn't say that. Kids love the switch. bieng portable is a huge deal in that demographic. PS and XBox and losing that demographic to tablets. Its why its the best selling console of all time. Why would they want ot cater to a few old people an d not the other 100 million switch owners?
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
I wouldn't say that. Kids love the switch. bieng portable is a huge deal in that demographic. PS and XBox and losing that demographic to tablets. Its why its the best selling console of all time. Why would they want ot cater to a few old people an d not the other 100 million switch owners?
Kids are the main demographic, but the hardcore nintendo fanboys are people who roam these forums. The PS4 Pro had a ratio of 20%. Id say 20% when you are sellng 100 million units is a sizeable chunk. Especially if they could sell it for a profit.
 
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