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Dead Space Extraction coming to XBLA/PSN?
- Thread starter DMczaf
- Start date
AceBandage
Banned
BattleMonkey said:
Maybe you should check the reveal thread again.
It was basically nothing but "This game will flop."
BattleMonkey
Member
AceBandage said:
:lol
You spin me right 'round, baby
Right 'round like a record, baby
Right 'round, 'round, 'round,
You spin me right 'round, baby
Right 'round like a record, baby
Right 'round, 'round, 'round
nincompoop
Banned
You think it's odd that different people could have differing opinions regarding a game?BattleMonkey said:
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
I'd just like to let you know that you're awesome. :lolBattleMonkey said:
AceBandage
Banned
BattleMonkey said:
Maybe instead of acting like a prick, you actually research, hmm?
An excellent post from the reveal thread.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14820008&postcount=42
gofreak said:
The thing is, is clear that optic tracking is more precise than mechanical tracking. That's why arc seems to be better than WM+ for stuff like 1-1 sword, etc. But for pointer controls, if Arc relies on gyroscopes for the angle of the wand, then it will never match the wii-mote pure 300fps optical pointer.
Will it be good enough? Eh, we will see. On that Post E3 demo you showed, the pointer freaked out and disappeared whenever they did fast movements.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Mako_Drug said:
Around 2.5 hours with cutscenes. But I wouldn't bring Overkill up, it's the king of the genre and the pinnacle of replayability.
BattleMonkey
Member
AceBandage said:
Except this is basically how pretty much all Wii exclusive 3rd party game threads go *shrug*. This isn't some kind of unique situation, people always spout this and then are like "BUY THIS GAME". The circle of gaming life is complete.
AceBandage
Banned
BattleMonkey said:
Yes, some people will say buy it, regardless.
Most however, were dead set against buying Extraction.
You can believe whatever you want though, and spout that I'm "spinning" things.
Like I said before, if you guys want Wii port ups of rail shooters, more power too you.
BattleMonkey said:
Because there's no fans of Platinium games that wanted Madworld? or fans of Dead Space pushing the game?
What the hell are you saying here?
People should stop being excited about upcoming releases?
We'll do that when people stop hype stuff like the next CoD or MoH, deal?
BattleMonkey
Member
Mael said:
Perhaps if there was a point to be made out of all this?
Again this is just a game announcement of a port of a game that sold poorly that has just lead to lot of anger from folks for odd reasons when it's simply a matter of EA wanting to recoup investment. It's a simple thing but obviously lot of bitter tears are involved as well for stupid console warrior reasons.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
AceBandage said:
Really, if $15 is all it takes to stop your whining about how EA screwed over the Wii by putting a well-reviewed game on the box, I'd consider it money well spent.
Wii owners got the game first, and with an arguably superior control scheme, if it still does better on the other platforms I think even you would have to admit that the game isn't the problem.
I've had to stomach ungrateful gamers calling Eurocom a shovelware developer (they made TWINE and Nightfire FFS)for months now, I'll let my wallet to the talking from now on and let the devs know where they're appreciated.
AceBandage
Banned
BattleMonkey said:
Well, considering the bitter tears were started by grandjedi saying I was already spinning things, by saying that based on sales, it wasn't just fanboys that didn't want this game...
Again, not sure how this will spite me on anything. Maybe if I had bought and enjoyed the game, it might a little bit, but as it is, all you'll be doing is throwing your money away.
If it does 30k for every 9k the Wii release did, sure, we'll say the game wasn't the problem, but the price point. Is there anyone around here who says the game wouldn't have done better if it was launched with a reasonable price? House of the Dead 2 & 3 and its awesome price point was often discussed in Extraction threads exactly because of its price and success in part thanks to that price. I'm not sure what you're implying would be the problem if this release sells better, if not how the game was handled from the beginning, from the advertising that tried to tell people it's not a rail shooter, to the price point, to the in-game mocking of players with the game starting out with a third person like view before you realise that's another character, not you. Why would any of this spite anyone though? Will it spite you if it doesn't do better than on Wii?Sho_Nuff82 said:
BattleMonkey said:
Again I don't see the point in debating this anyway, I mean I can't see why the game would be interesting as it is to 360/ps3 gamers. I see its appeal to wii owner even less though, so to me they're doing it backward I guess.
But in the end what EA is telling all gamers is that :
DS:E was not a high budget game,
it was not worth more than 10 bucks
they're happy to have gotten more than 10 bucks from wii owners
So yeah I can see why some Wii owners could be feeling a little hurt.
Me personnally, Unless the game is magically under 10bucks new, I'm not even considering it, as i don't give a crap about dead space and I've got better games to play (on wii, ds, psp & ps3)
ShockingAlberto
Member
AceBandage is annoying, but his corollaries on the other aisle are just as annoying.
I don't know what it is about Wii exclusives that causes so many people to regress to being 12 again.
I don't know what it is about Wii exclusives that causes so many people to regress to being 12 again.
I can see your point. Maybe you don't own a Wii. However lets think about something. How many people here most likely own an HD twin and a Wii? Probably a good amount. 70%?
These same people had a chance to show their appreciation for the highly rated Wii game when it came out but they did not. So, now they want to run out and buy it at a discount as a DLC game with worse controls? ..Really?
All this does is reaffirm the "red headed step child" syndrome that the Wii gets. Wii fans may contradict themselves (and get a ton of shit for it) with odd excuses here and there but the rest of the "gaming" populace is way more skewed and obnoxious.
This generation has made me reconsider if I will even bother with the next.
These same people had a chance to show their appreciation for the highly rated Wii game when it came out but they did not. So, now they want to run out and buy it at a discount as a DLC game with worse controls? ..Really?
All this does is reaffirm the "red headed step child" syndrome that the Wii gets. Wii fans may contradict themselves (and get a ton of shit for it) with odd excuses here and there but the rest of the "gaming" populace is way more skewed and obnoxious.
This generation has made me reconsider if I will even bother with the next.
BattleMonkey
Member
Agnates said:
I think it's hard to say what EA really wanted out of the game no matter what. This was an all new developed game. House of the Dead 2&3 was not exactly a huge seller but main reason for it's success was that it basically was old games repackaged, it was a quick investment by SEGA that easily brought in some good money. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that HOTD2&3 probably made more profit than Overkill which was a completely new game and seemed to sell about the same. But what was EA really expecting, what kind of budget did they put into it?
The game no doubt was a bad idea though from the start, perhaps as a marketing tool on systems that the main series is released on it would have made more sense.
Dead Man Typing
Member
I loved it on Wii, and playing this with the Arc on PS3 makes a whole lot of sense.
I wonder if Natal will be able to do light gun games properly. Even with reticle calibration in titles like House Of The Dead Overkill, the Wii remote is painfully imprecise compared to the old Dreamcast light gun and HoTD2 on a CRT TV.
I'm confident Arc will be very accurate, based on the E3 tech demo's, simple pointing and clicking should be very easy for it to do accrately. Natal, I'm not so sure, since you don't have any piece of technology in your hands pointing at the camera. We'll have to wait and see I suppose.
As for the quality of Dead Space Extraction, it's a helluva fun ride on Wii, and I found it to be a very entertaining way to experience a story in a video game. Very well directed action, new insight into the universe of Dead Space (which I wasn't too bothered about when I played DS1) and made me appreciate it a lot more. I am a fan of light gun games, so maybe I'm not the right person to be commenting on DS:E's contributions to gaming, but my friend and I had a lot of fun playing co-op together, to the point where this is the game that made me buy a second nunchuck for my Wii, even though the second player doesn't need one. (it's a lot better with one, for weapon selection and reloading)
I wonder if Natal will be able to do light gun games properly. Even with reticle calibration in titles like House Of The Dead Overkill, the Wii remote is painfully imprecise compared to the old Dreamcast light gun and HoTD2 on a CRT TV.
I'm confident Arc will be very accurate, based on the E3 tech demo's, simple pointing and clicking should be very easy for it to do accrately. Natal, I'm not so sure, since you don't have any piece of technology in your hands pointing at the camera. We'll have to wait and see I suppose.
As for the quality of Dead Space Extraction, it's a helluva fun ride on Wii, and I found it to be a very entertaining way to experience a story in a video game. Very well directed action, new insight into the universe of Dead Space (which I wasn't too bothered about when I played DS1) and made me appreciate it a lot more. I am a fan of light gun games, so maybe I'm not the right person to be commenting on DS:E's contributions to gaming, but my friend and I had a lot of fun playing co-op together, to the point where this is the game that made me buy a second nunchuck for my Wii, even though the second player doesn't need one. (it's a lot better with one, for weapon selection and reloading)
v0yce said:
Still the inital price was over 50 bucks, it sold like shit so its value dropped like a rock.
I mean I care about this game even less seeing how little value it seems to have, I mean EA couldn't be bothered to even advertise the game.
EA did everything to not catch my interest for this game, I don't think a digital release will change much.
Heck they manufactured their own failure so I won't cry tears for that
WickedCobra03 said:
That was one of the initial complaints once the game was out. It simply wasn't worth $50 from the get go. I don't see how anyone could possibly say it was. Decent game in the end it might be but no way was it worth $50. It should have been $30 max. It arguably would have done better as well. The backlash over the game before it even came out should have told EA they had to do something to make it more appealing but they did nothing. That is ignorance on their part and why the game deserved to do poorly in the end. The fact it's being put up for $15 on the PSN/Live shows what it's worth really was in the end.
The other rail shooters that have done well weren't $50 as well. Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles is the exception and that really had more to people assuming it might be another game similar to Resident Evil 4 since RE4 did so well on both the GameCube and the Wii with the Wii controls. This is why RE
C hasn't done as well. Capcom basically screwed people over in regards to Resident Evil on the Wii and they paid for it when Darkside Chronicles came out.Sho_Nuff82
Member
Agnates said:
I'm glad you mentioned this, even though I touched on it earlier in the thread.
I've actually been a vocal proponent of smaller Wii games that have little to no chance at retail (especially the 2D ones) being put on XBLA/PSN, because they make more sense as $10-$15 DD content than $40-$50 retail games that will never be restocked.
I believe I originally suggested Muramasa and Little King's Story.
In light of the success of Mega Man 9, Trials, MvC2, Shadow Complex, and BF1943, the imminent DD-exclusive release of Hydrophobia and Perfect Dark, and now the announcement of Sonic 4 and DSE, I think developers are starting to see things my way.
The only reason this setup generally sucks for Wii owners is because of the (self-imposed) limitations of WiiWare.
DD games will reach a larger audience and have better legs as well.
HisshouBuraiKen
Member
What are the size limits on XBLA/PSN now? DSE is about 3 gigs iirc.
I just ordered a copy since it dropped below $20 on Newegg, two days before this got announced. I'm digging this trend of including games as preorder bonuses though (if that ends up coming to fruition). They aren't going to go away, and I'd much prefer a game to a costume for my guy.
v0yce said:
No that's not what I meant, my point was that DS:E hold little to NO value to begin with.
Would you argue that a game like New Super Mario Bros that can retain its value for more than 3 years don't hold their value to the point where it hold more value than most game released?
I mean let's not hide behind the belief that DS:E is some magical game that didn't find its public like so many others.
The game was clearly reviled BEFORE its release and hold little to no chance to do well in the first place, we're not even in a case like Madworld where a marketig genius could have made something out of it (a marketing genius would not have allowed the game to be released the game the way it was anyway).
And you should get MPT at 20 bucks, once it's gone it'll be forever.
Nintendo is discontinuing the game, so unless you want to get it years later at 90bucks on eBay :/
Lonely1 said:
My understanding of the wii-mote is that it does not rely solely on optical data to determine the orientation of the controller either. It only uses the optical data for yaw with respect to the sensor bar, with the internal sensors used to fill in pitch and roll. Think about it: if the optical data alone was enough for robust and accurate orientation tracking, the internal sensors would be redundant. The additional further sensors of the motion+ would be a farce - they were added, partially at least because the accelerometers of the wii-mote alone couldn't actually distinguish between linear motion and angular rotation.
Though I'd be unsurprised if arc was relying heavily or even exclusively on sensor data for orientation, I'd also be unsurprised if they were using optical data to reinforce confidence in sensor orientation data where possible. However they're doing it though, the demos at E3 which progressed over many minutes, where the orientation of the controller was being mapped to the controller onscreen...the mapping looked robust (as for cursor 'craziness' with the other demos with fast motion...I think that was just the sensitivity being turned up way high).
A small point also but re. the Wiimote's camera's sample rate, I believe it's been measured to top out at 100hz (at least according to Johnny Lee).
We will of course have to wait and see what the thing is actually like, there's unknowables there. But the argument earlier, at least from my POV was about data availability, and the data needed to do certain things. We can draw conclusions about that at this point from what's been shown, I think. Other things will factor into the quality of the experience though, sure, and those are things we'll have to wait and see about.
BuckRobotron
Member
I'll be there for it on XBLA if true. Was always curious about it given my enthusiasm for Dead Space, but then even if I picked up a Wii the original asking price for DSE was excessive. It would have been one of my first buys on the system at $20 or so, though.
gofreak said:
The pointer only uses optical information (the position and size) of the two arrays of LEDs form the sensor bar. You can move the cursor by moving the sensor bar instead, like in the head tracking demo from Lee. This is closer to a mouse than actual light gun, but it works great and its the best feature from the Wii-mote by far. The accelerometers are there for getting the trust force and the gyroscopes for tracking movement when the sensor bar is not in sight.
If you look at the videos closely, you will notice that the orientation of the want on Arc is not perfect. The tracking of the absolute position of the light ball is perfect, and this is indeed and awesome feature. But the rest of the wand, is very good, but not perfect. The 'craziness' was present when they actually were using orientation based pointing. I think that Iwata himself said that the camera was 200-300fps. But perhaps its mostly reserved for internal calculations?gofreak said:
Lonely1 said:
I think you missed my point a little. If what I recall is correct they're not determining the wii-mote's orientation purely from the optical data of the camera. They apparently use that to determine one of three axes of rotation, but the rest comes from internal sensors. Internal sensors that are waaaay more ambiguous and lossy at reporting data than those in the wand (at least until motion+ showed up). You're right that the accelerometers measure acceleration ('thrust') along 3 axes, but with direction of gravity they're used to calculate pitch and roll. Problem is though that they can't tell if the acceleration is caused by an angular rotation or a linear motion...but for the purposes of a game, where the result of either will be the same, it doesn't really matter.
So my point is that if people are sounding caution about a reliance on internal sensor data for orientation info in the case of Arc, it's nothing too dissimilar to the challenges the wii-mote faces. Again, if what I read was right and I'm recalling it correctly, the wii-mote also relies heavily on internal sensor data to determine orientation. Only one of the axes of orientation are determined from the camera data - the others come from the accelerometers. And if they mess up, it doesn't really matter how accurate the camera-based orientation is. The overall result, the overall 3D orientation of the controller, will be messed up.
But that doesn't happen too much, it seems. So I don't see reason to expect it'll happen too much with arc either.
My original point and concern about Arc capabilities are about the pointer. The pointer uses only optical information, proven by the fact that you can use it by moving the sensor bar instead. And I'm very sure that the sensor bar doesn't have any sensor in it.gofreak said:
DS:E is a on-rails fps that uses pointer aiming, not a light gun game. The Wii-mote is not perfect when emulating a light gun. I suspect that WM+ can enhance this and the Arc can act as one decently too. But as an actual 3d mouse, the Wii-mote is indeed very good and I have my doubts about arc acting like one.
Neuromancer
Member
I'd buy it but it'd be sad without a light gun.
Natal?
Natal?
ShockingAlberto said:
I think it's the fact that Nintendo fans are used to being the scrappy underdogs due to their experiences in the N64 and especially the Gamecube years. The fact that the Wii is on top makes them feel vindicated, but the treatment of the Wii by 3rd parties and the gaming media puts them back into scrappy underdog mode, even moreso since they believe the Wii deserves respect and high quality games due to being market leader.
On the other hand the HD fans have split feelings too, as they are still getting all the big 3rd party games and good press from gaming circles, but feel slighted that some silly white box with a weird controller is beating them in sales. Because of the nature of the Wii, they feel that anything it can do HD can do better, so the Wii clearly does not deserve any exclusive support except for casual lol.
In other words, both sides of the aisle are suffering from major cognitive dissonance that causes them to act irrationally.
Lonely1 said:
OK, I see now where we are. I think we were talking past each other. You are right that regardless of whether an orientation is being correctly calculated from the camera data, it still works for pointing. When the camera sees something, it may not always know if what it's seeing is coming from a linear motion or a angular rotation, but it doesn't matter, because the result of either is the same for the cursor on screen.
But with Arc, there isn't that happy property of being able to confuse linear motion with angular rotation and get the same result because of the reversal of the sensing. Hence the need for much better orientation tracking.
However, I don't know if I'd yet assume that orientation data relies solely on the Arc's sensors. There's patent stuff out there that hints at measuring the ball's orientation from camera data alone using a model of the ball's light-fall etc. measured against what the cam is seeing at a point in time. I'd be unsurprised if they were mashing in data from the camera also to try and keep the orientation data as clean as possible as much as possible.
gofreak said:
Well, there's a lot of stuff in the patent plans that didn't make to the prototype they are showing. The "best" pointer demos (the LBP and writing) only uses the absolute ball position, linear movement as you call it. From what they have showed, I'm not confident that the Arc can do abstract pointer smoothly.
Katana_Strikes
Member
Not too fussed over Extraction but that strategy games sounds really cool.