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Dealing with a family member who has become extremely religious

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Izick said:
I think the more I read and heard from the bible, the farther away I felt from the religion. Kind of sad actually I guess.
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What do you think about the following statement made by Jesus?

"Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won't lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you'll learn to live freely and lightly."
 
Paraphrased and still a pack of lies.

Though, sometimes The Message more accurately translates despite being a paraphrase. So much of modern translation is wrapped up in tradition that is gets warped from the rather holistic tone of the original text and perspective.
 
Game Analyst said:
What do you think about the following statement made by Jesus?

"Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won't lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you'll learn to live freely and lightly."
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So is Jesus right, or is the bible right?

What if I don't hate gay people, or don't like slavery, or don't like treating women like property?

I mean, I like the idea of Jesus, because he seemed to not care about the stupid rules the old archaic bible set-up, but christians still say all that stuff is basically law to them.
 
astroturfing said:
i honestly don't even understand how religious schools for underage kids are even legal... such obvious brainwashing, to make more anti-abortion/anti-gay/anti-science/etc "soldiers" (a term they themselves often use). i mean ffs, their brains aren't even close to being fully developed yet. it should be a crime to indoctrinate them.

i feel like i'm a complete outsider in this religion-dominated world. i just don't fucking get it.
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The very act of education is indoctrination.

Many highly religious people view you as a dangerous product of public school indoctrination. Would you like it if they legislate against the types of teaching that you receive?

They outnumber you in this world, and it is much easier for them to make their views a reality than it is for you to push your view on them.

If parents wish to educate their children in a manner that leads them to be uncompetitive applicants in the job market, then, unfortunately, so be it.
 
Game Analyst said:
What do you think about the following statement made by Jesus?

"Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won't lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you'll learn to live freely and lightly."
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That's a competitive sales pitch if ever I've heard one, man.

Note the sales-angle. You could replace the word "religion" with "software" or "appliance," change a few other words following and it would be exactly the same. I'm not here to criticize your faith...I wish it were as easy for some of us to believe and be satisfied as you are, but it's not. All I'm saying is that that statement is made to recruit, not share. It's asking for a commitment.
 
Izick said:
So is Jesus right, or is the bible right?
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The Bible is Jesus' Word. So, both are right.

Izick said:
What if I don't hate gay people, or don't like slavery, or don't like treating women like property?
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Two things.

1. The context of those verses is the key to understanding each of the things you brought up.
2. God calls us to love others and hate sin. Why does he want us to hate sin? Because sin is selfishness.

Izick said:
I mean, I like the idea of Jesus, because he seemed to not care about the stupid rules the old archaic bible set-up,
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Jesus followed all 616 Old Testament laws and kept all of them. So, he did care about the Law. What He didn't like was people twisting what God said, making God's Word say something that it never said, and then those in authority making others do things God never said to do.

Izick said:
but christians still say all that stuff is basically law to them.
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Like what?
 
Izick said:
I mean, I like the idea of Jesus, because he seemed to not care about the stupid rules the old archaic bible set-up, but christians still say all that stuff is basically law to them.
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This is a great misunderstanding of Jesus. He didn't like misuse of the law but still supported every last bit of it (although he counted himself the fulfillment of much of the ceremonial things that they no longer need be practiced now) and according to scripture he will lead the slaughter of the disobedient at the end of times
 
Sirpopopop said:
The very act of education is indoctrination.

Many highly religious people view you as a dangerous product of public school indoctrination. Would you like it if they legislate against the types of teaching that you receive?

They outnumber you in this world, and it is much easier for them to make their views a reality than it is for you to push your view on them.
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Education : indoctrination :: rectangle : square
 
I feel you, OP. My wife's younger sister got married and joined a pseudo-cult (far outside of more traditional evangelical religious groups) that has all sorts of wacky beliefs. Every time we have a family reunion I have to listen to her husband go on these long diatribes about how we're all falling short of this, that, and the other.

What makes me really mad isn't that he's pushy with his wacko beliefs. It's that he's a lazy SOB. He doesn't have a job, can't provide for his wife or child, and is generally the most disagreeable person I've ever met. He's fat, lazy, and demands everyone take care of everything for him. Then when people chip in to help him he refuses to acknowledge that he received or needed the help.

Total miscreant. He would be a punk without the weird religious beliefs, but those really push him over the top into d-bag mode.
 
Tragicomedy said:
What makes me really mad isn't that he's pushy with his wacko beliefs. It's that he's a lazy. He doesn't have a job, can't provide for his wife or child, and is generally the most disagreeable person I've ever met. .
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This man might not be aware of the following Bible verse, "If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat." (2 Thessalonians 3:10)
 
Game Analyst said:
What do you mean?
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It's asking you to give yourself, not receive. Give, and ye shall receive. Buy in, and you'll be rewarded. Take a chance, and you'll get a return, I promise.

It's not demonstrating value, at least not to me, and to other people as well. People would literally have to come around to that way of thinking, and start looking at things from a different standpoint. Give, give, give. And you'll receive. Make yourself happy in this life (my way), and you'll be happy when you're dead.

It assumes a stance on an unknowable. Not a variable or a given. An unknowable. If I were to flip the script and say "Show me what life after death is like, here, now. Show me how it'll be for me if I follow you or if I don't, with proof" and the powers that be did it, then sure. That's value. Asking me to give *basically* that which is most precious to me for no tangible guarantee upon return isn't a smart pitch.

I guess what I'm asking for here is to show me the money (pardon the phrase).
 
Somewhere on the other side of the internet on an extremely religious forum there's a thread about "How to deal with someone in your family that just became non-religious"?

Really it's sorta sad. I went to a religious funeral not too long ago and it was one of the most depressing things I've ever seen. Everyone there just kept talking about Jesus and how wonderful he was and I was like "Dude has like 2-4 holidays every year for him depending on your religion, can't we talk about the deceased?"

For me, it's my wife's family. They are insanely religious and they look at me and my wife and kids and "feel sorry" for us because we left the church. Little do they know it goes both ways.
 
Log4Girlz said:
If it were my sister I would cut her out of my life...she has been corrupted.
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Log4Girlz said:
I have to agree that if someone is not actively harming someone, you shouldn't really try to change someone. You can accept them or not. I personally would not accept a close family member or friend suddenly becoming very religious unless they kept completely quiet about it. The moment they make it a big deal or try to convert me, then I cut off all relations as I believe religion is horrible.
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You sound like a complete asshole. And a hypocrite, too.
 
Hix said:
You seem to have an extremely confused concept of who/what jesus was and claimed to be.
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Game Analyst is the same as the OP's sister anyway...an extremely religious person, who even bother to put capital letters in everything related to God or Jesus. Be it their "Words", their "Law" or referring them as "He" in the middle of a sentence.
 
jgminto said:
  • After that he discusses how our planet is in the perfect point for us to be living and that if it were off even a fraction there would be no life and that it is a miracle that Earth exists
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This is such a misused misconception. The earth has an elliptical orbit. It is the furthest away from the sun when there's summer on the northern hemisphere, and closest in January.

When the sun is furthest away from the sun, it's 152,098,232 km away. When it's closest, it's 147,098,290 km.

That's a 4 999 942, or five million kilometers in difference. The earth is 12800 km in diameter. That means you can line up nearly 400,000 earths in between where the earth is at its closest and at its furthest. That's no fraction. Not only that, that's just the distance it normally changes within. We could probably move far outside of that without drastically changing the climate on the earth.

Sure, it's a cosmic coincidence that exactly this planet has the conditions it has. But the probability that one of the estimated 600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, or 600 sextillion planets in the visible universe has these conditions? A higher probability than the fact that I'll eat dinner soon.
 
Any persuasion, appeal to reason, or argument for proof of her error will likely fall on deaf ears at this point. Fanaticism, already a penchant and past time of youth, is entrenched by her religious faith. Attempts to persuade a fanatic are generally futile.

But to be there for her, counsel her and stand as an example of a good brother will lay the foundations for her change should her fanaticism ever wane. Offer advice when asked and support her on common grounds.
 
You should probably help her understand the importance of not dropping out of school...and that her musical career/interest can take a backseat till after she has finished her studies...
 
Game Analyst said:
The Bible is Jesus' Word. So, both are right.



Two things.

1. The context of those verses is the key to understanding each of the things you brought up.
2. God calls us to love others and hate sin. Why does he want us to hate sin? Because sin is selfishness.



Jesus followed all 616 Old Testament laws and kept all of them. So, he did care about the Law. What He didn't like was people twisting what God said, making God's Word say something that it never said, and then those in authority making others do things God never said to do.



Like what?
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El-0-el
 
A wedge has been placed in the relationship you have with your sister. You cannot change anyone or their beliefs. Falls upon deaf ears. Distance yourself, but remember that she is still family.
 
I think it's funny that a 15 year old thinks she knows what God's plan is.

I feel for you, OP. I know a lot of people here are giving you slack for it, but I can understand your concern. I grew up in a very negative, very hate-filled church, which permanently soured my opinion on religion. I know that there are a lot of positive, progressive churches out there too, but I would be afraid if my younger sisters (both about the same age as yours) got really involved in one of their small town churches. It's scary to think about the kind of people that may be influencing someone you care about. Judging from your experience at that church it doesn't exactly seem like the kind of environment I'd want my young siblings to be in either.

However you have to accept that you can't control who your siblings are or what they do. She's at an age where she is going to be thinking for herself and branching out into other areas. Anything you do that contradicts that is just going to strain your relationship. Teenagers like to be rebellious, as odd as it may seem for religion to be a form of rebellion. Just try to keep that kid in school.
 
It's her life to do with as she wishes. You can tell her your opinion on the matter, but you don't have the right to control her. Religion may be something she feels she needs at this point. If it's a wholesome community that will help her cope with whatever issues she may be having, then all the power to her.

I'm an atheist (or agnostic, at best), but my mom and much of my father's family are largely devout (two of my uncles are Pentecostal pastors). They're good people, and I accept them as they are. I simply try to avoid religion as a point of discussion.
 
Omegasquash said:
It's asking you to give yourself, not receive. Give, and ye shall receive. Buy in, and you'll be rewarded. Take a chance, and you'll get a return, I promise.

It's not demonstrating value, at least not to me, and to other people as well. People would literally have to come around to that way of thinking, and start looking at things from a different standpoint. Give, give, give. And you'll receive. Make yourself happy in this life (my way), and you'll be happy when you're dead.

It assumes a stance on an unknowable. Not a variable or a given. An unknowable. If I were to flip the script and say "Show me what life after death is like, here, now. Show me how it'll be for me if I follow you or if I don't, with proof" and the powers that be did it, then sure. That's value. Asking me to give *basically* that which is most precious to me for no tangible guarantee upon return isn't a smart pitch.

I guess what I'm asking for here is to show me the money (pardon the phrase).
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All Jesus asks is to have a tiny bit of faith. Do you believe that what He is asking is too hard for us to do?

Nerfgun said:
oh well I'm convinced then. well argued.

statements like this, so closed as they are to any further debate, used to be something I would rage against.

now they just make me feel tired.
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I answered how I view it. You are free to believe what ever you want to believe, and I will respect your decision. No one is forcing anyone to believe anything that they do not want to believe.

Hix said:
You seem to have an extremely confused concept of who/what jesus was and claimed to be.
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I know who He claimed to be, and believe who He claimed to be.
 
Sye d'Burns said:
Explain yourself.

If, for instance, you take the 10 commandments and the seven deadly sins, which of them isn't rooted in selfishness?
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God calls us to love others and hate sin. Why does he want us to hate sin? Because sin is selfishness.
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It was out of context. He made a post in another thread a while back arguing about how homosexuals were sinners but "good people" or something like that. Point is, empathy and acceptance of others is the last thing I think of when I see him post that. It takes a great deal of selfishness to believe that you're the only good person or people like you.
 
Game Analyst said:
This man might not be aware of the following Bible verse, "If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat." (2 Thessalonians 3:10)
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man, that's pretty terrible. i didn't know that was in the Bible, explains some things i guess... good thing i live in a country that has enacted socialist policies to help those that are unemployed and poor, instead of living in a Christian theocracy that took the Bible literally. i would have died many times over lol.

do you think it would be moral to let a person die of hunger if he won't or can't work?
 
Ah, I wasn't privy to the other thread. Thanks for clearing that up.

CrushDance said:
It was out of context. He made a post in another thread a while back arguing about how homosexuals were sinners but "good people" or something like that. Point is, empathy and acceptance of others is the last thing I think of when I see him post that. It takes a great deal of selfishness to believe that you're the only good person or people like you.
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What you're describing, in bold, sounds like pride to me. Speaking only for myself here, and addressing only the bolded, the view a person should have is that no one is without sin, so we're all in the same boat, as it were. Hence, you shouldn't look down on a fellow sinner.


astroturfing said:
man, that's pretty terrible. i didn't know that was in the Bible, explains some things i guess... good thing i live in a country that has enacted socialist policies to help those that are unemployed and poor, instead of living in a Christian theocracy that took the Bible literally. i would have died many times over lol.

do you think it would be moral to let a person die of hunger if he won't or can't work?
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There's a difference between will not work and cannot work.
 
Holy shit at this topic. You people...


ThisWreckage said:
A wedge has been placed in the relationship you have with your sister. You cannot change anyone or their beliefs. Falls upon deaf ears. Distance yourself, but remember that she is still family.
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What the flying fuck? So because his sister has different beliefs than him, he should basically stop talking to her. Wow, what GREAT advice.

Honestly OP why would you even post a topic about this? Your sister can do whatever she damn well pleases when it comes to religion. I don't think you should go out of your way to make her an Atheist like you, because then you'd be shoving your beliefs down her throat. And from what you said, she doesn't seem to be doing that to you, unless you didn't mention it. So leave her alone.
 
Sye d'Burns said:
Ah, I wasn't privy to the other thread. Thanks for clearing that up.



What you're describing, in bold, sounds like pride to me. Speaking only for myself here, and addressing only the bolded, the view a person should have is that no one is without sin, so we're all in the same boat, as it were. Hence, you shouldn't look down on a fellow sinner.




There's a difference between will not work and cannot work.
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That's the only thing I kept with me after leaving Catholicism. Equal treatment.
 
Sye d'Burns said:
There's a difference between will not work and cannot work.
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sometimes it's not so clear. reality isn't black and white.

what if someone has a chronic pain that almost makes him pass out constantly, should he be forced to work construction if there's nothing else he's qualified for? etc etc, there are a million different scenarios.
 
astroturfing said:
sometimes it's not so clear. reality isn't black and white.

what if someone has a chronic pain that almost makes him pass out constantly, should he be forced to work construction if there's nothing else he's qualified for? etc etc, there are a million different scenarios.
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Should a one legged man have to walk a mail route? Of course not. The scenario is if a person is able to work, he or she should in order to provide for his or her self. No one is saying that a person incapable of manual labor should be forced to do manual labor. Retraining.

As for the original post responsible for this derail: it sounds as though his brother-in-law has issues far beyond his faith.

Let's leave the derail alone.
 
Again, thanks for the advice. For anyone interested her church is the "Wesleyan Methodist Church". I did like the idea posted earlier in the thread about her actually reading the scriptures. I definitely wasn't a fan of the pastor and it would be good if she forms her own opinion instead of taking his.
 
Regarding just the OP, the op's sister sounds too young and inexperienced to be able to think critically about what's going on and what's being pitched to her by the church. I'd say that's a fair reason to feel concerned if you're a relative, especially if it is true that she wants to do questionable things. Like drop out of school and try to go be a musician without any backup plan or forethought.

The suggestion to have her read scriptures herself could help, though based on my own experience I would warn that the mental hack for "you can't understand my faith because you don't have it" is extremely hard to dislodge or work around and may cause a person caught in it to not take the opinions of outsiders seriously.
 
Game Analyst I may not agree with them, but I respect your beliefs. In fact, it's refreshing to see someone stick to their guns on here. Especially considering this forum (at large) seemingly despises everything you stand towards.
 
jgminto said:
So I should probably start this out by saying that I am not anti-religion. I don't believe it and I don't think it should have power but people can believe whatever they want.

This thread is about my sister. Hey if you're reading this, sis! She started at a new school this year, second term if I remember correctly. But the thing is, it's an extremely religious school. Now I didn't have a problem with this initially, she went to a catholic school previously, as did I. But now she's become extremely religious since she's gone there. She started going to Youth, attending a church in our town and seeming more and more devout each day. I assumed this was just what is popular at her school so she went along with it but now I'm not so sure.

About a week or two ago she told me that she wanted to drop out of school and work on her musical career "because it was God's plan for her." I of course told her that was a stupid idea and that she should stay in school. I don't know what she thought of my slightly hypocritical opinion, I dropped out of school last year, but she hasn't brought that up again.

She's also gotten incredibly defensive about anything remotely related to her religion, telling me that I wouldn't get it because I'm not Christian, even though I considered my self as such only a few years ago. I don't even have a problem with her being Christian but it seems she's taking it way to seriously. Oh, she also got a purity ring from her church. I don't know if she'll stick to that or not, but I did have a right old chuckle when I saw it.

And then I went to her church. Apparently her church wasn't weird like the one at her school, apparently they speak in tongues there. Can't say I really wanted to go but I was in town when she needed to be there and I thought it could be an interesting experience at least. Holy shit was it bizarre. If you took all of the beliefs I have right now and changed the opinion to the exact opposite, you'd have something that resembled what they talked about during that sermon. It was a few nights ago, so I can't really remember any exact quotes but I'll try to remember it as closely as I can

  • The pastor started with how we need to give ourselves over to God and that this world isn't right and is influenced by the Devil and we shouldn't let it corrupt our views

  • He then describes "God's plan for us" and how we shouldn't question it

  • He also goes into how disasters can happen so we will come back to God. Seems like someone loves being the centre of attention

  • After that he discusses how our planet is in the perfect point for us to be living and that if it were off even a fraction there would be no life and that it is a miracle that Earth exists

  • And to round it up he discusses how if sex outside of marriage were made illegal, it would eradicate disease, abortions, etc. I would have liked to hear how he even thought that would be possible

That's all that I can remember right now. Now maybe it's just my only basic experience with religion, but it was a real eye opener. This is what my sister is being told to believe. And while I don't want to make decisions for her, she's on her own journey and she'll have her own experiences and learn from them, I can't help but be a little concerned after hearing the stuff she's gotten so enthusiastic about.

So GAF, any tips regarding my sis? Should I do anything or just leave her be. And have you dealt with anything similar?

Also no pics, she's 15 you sick bastards!!
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Just make sure she doesn't drop out of school. The rest, will work itself out.
 
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