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Dealing with an existential crisis

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Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Okay, this is kind of complicated and probably also dumb, but here goes.

I was born into a religious family. I guess you could say I was fairly religious. I believed in the rules established by my religion, and was really convinced that it was the 'right' one. I did have certain questions, that I'm sure most religious people had at least one point in their lives (like "Why is our religion the right one?"), but the answer to those questions were pretty much always: STFU.

But I went about my business and just accepted it. Around the time I was 18 or 19, I came across a debate about religion on one of the very first forums I used to frequent. One of the posters was an atheist (you could probably guess which side he was arguing), and he made a bunch of excellent points about the contradictions, hypocrisies, inconsistencies and paradoxes about organized religion that I couldn't help but feel enlightened. About a week after following the debate, I was of the opinion that all organized religion is baloney, and that you don't need religion to be a moral person. Interestingly enough, I didn't have a crisis of faith at the time like you would expect to happen once finding out that nearly everything you believed in was a lie. In fact, I was quite happy with my new found belief system.

However, I didn't consider myself an atheist. I still believed in a "God", or some sort of higher power. One that was as powerful as the gods of the major religions, but not bound by the arbitrary rules created with most religions (such as pre-marital sex being a no-no). However, throughout the past several months I've come to find myself drifting more and more to the side of atheism. The problem with this is that it seems to take away any meaning life had to offer. I mean, is life really just an accident? It's one thing when your parents call you that, but for it to actually be true on a cosmic scale? The more I think about it, the more questions come up. Why are you who you are, where you are, at what point in time you are? I mean, babies that are born, just to die from tay sacch's (sp?) or something? The hundreds of thousands of people that die every year, why aren't you one of them?

Needless to say, it's gotten pretty depressing. I've been feeling a hell of a lot more paranoid about being killed. I feel a bit better than I did a little while back when all of this hit me at once, but I don't know if I'll ever be able to go back to that blissful sense of ignorance about such matters.

So now I need help to get my life back on track. If anyone has any advice, or books or whatever to help cope with this existential crisis I'd appreciate it. I'm 25 years old, I shouldn't be feeling this way, dammit! :(
 
I've been terrified of non-existence since I was like 9 years old. The idea of an eternity of nothingness gives me panic attacks like nothing else. Like you, I feel life has no meaning if it comes to an end. That said, I can't help but continue to live and do stuff like a normal person. Must be something we humans evolved to keep the species going.

I have nothing that will make you feel better. Just wanted to let you know you're not the only one who feels this way.
 
That's what life is man. All those crazy questions you have like "is life just an accident?" I believe that it is. It just happened. Life is what you make it, that's how I tend to think of it. Religious people turn to their gods to answer those big questions you listed, I guess it's their way of coping and/or explaining things because trying to answer those questions is very taxing on the mind, but to me, it's a bit of a cop out.


It's like waking up from the Matrix.

"This is it?"
"Yes, this is it, but it's the truth and people can still be happy and make what they want of their lives."


I think the most important thing to do in life is to have offspring, even above your own happiness or well-being. You only get one shot of passing yourself along.
 
Just don't worry about it man. There may be a god or not. No one can answer that question! Ask yourself this: Would you live your life differently depending on the answer?

Hint: If you can answer with "Hell no!" you're good. So answer with HELL NO DAMMIT
 
YYZ said:
I think the most important thing to do in life is to have offspring, even above your own happiness or well-being. You only get one shot of passing yourself along.

well that's just fucking stupid.
 
Where were you before you were born?? did you have a problem with where you were?

Dont stress, something cant become nothing, you will have manifestations for eternity :D
 
John Dunbar said:
well that's just fucking stupid.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
(Today, 06:00 PM)

Well damn, you got me there.



I should add to that. If you don't have children then you should leave some kind of significant legacy for people to know you by. If you've done important work or contributed positively to society then it's all good. Don't just drift on by and/or be a burden on society (a lot of people are).
 
It's a cliche, but life really means what you want it to mean. The relationships you have, the goals you accomplish and the people you help are all still real. Those mean something, even if you don't believe someone else knows about all of it, or that you'll be rewarded in an afterlife for them.
 
goomba said:
Where were you before you were born?? did you have a problem with where you were?

Dont stress, something cant become nothing, you will have manifestations for eternity :D

1. there's not going to be one
2. you didn't have a problem with it because you weren't alive. you're basically suggesting suicide here (an option i have nothing against).
 
If you're still under the assumption that meaning has to be given to you from some external source, I suppose that's why you feel that way.

All I can really say is since "meaning" is a human construct, we define it as we please. Even when it was "god" giving a supposed meaning, well, humans created gods, so we still just defined our own meaning and convinced ourselves it was external when it really wasn't.

But everyone's different I suppose. I never had the "crisis" when I went from a believer to a nonbeliever, so I guess the whole "meaning is something that is given to you!" thing never took hold for me.
 
I wouldn't use the term accident in regards to life (it wasn't because of an accident that we are in the position we are in today). "Life is emergent" is a more accurate statement, and it follows that our meanings and purposes are emergent too.
 
YYZ said:
I think the most important thing to do in life is to have offspring, even above your own happiness or well-being. You only get one shot of passing yourself along.

I'd actually disagree with this (well, somewhat). Reminds me of a quote somewhere (paraphrasing): "No one remembers who the hell Socrates' son was, but his ideas have been around for centuries".

Though I suppose if you're a person that has nothing interesting to say about anything, having kids is the easier way to leave a "legacy" :lol
 
John Dunbar said:
1. there's not going to be one
2. you didn't have a problem with it because you weren't alive. you're basically suggesting suicide here (an option i have nothing against).

No, im saying that whole idea of a permanent 'self' is an illusion, that we are all the works of one process that will go on long after we die.
 
Read The Denial of Death by Ernest Becker. Make sure you read the whole book though, because if you end up only reading the first half, you'll probably go insane. Anyway, the truth is all in there. Be strong, my friend.
 
Shorty said:
Just don't worry about it man. There may be a god or not. No one can answer that question! Ask yourself this: Would you live your life differently depending on the answer?

Hint: If you can answer with "Hell no!" you're good. So answer with HELL NO DAMMIT
This is the way I look at things.

Also, from an atheistic point of view, wouldn't life be considered more of a coincidence than an accident? Saying it's an accident kind of implies there was something that was behind it. An accident goes against a plan, so saying it was an accident implies there was a plan in the first place. Just a thought.
 
BrightYoungThing said:
This is the way I look at things.

Also, from an atheistic point of view, wouldn't life be considered more of a coincidence than an accident? Saying it's an accident kind of implies there was something that was behind it. An accident goes against a plan, so saying it was an accident implies there was a plan in the first place. Just a thought.
Coincidence works better, but people still equate it with accident.

Emergence!
 
It sounds like your dwelling on the concept of death and the idea of an accidental life not being an absolutely fortuitous one. The chances of you being you, considering all the variables all your parents potential partners all their potential mating patterns (gross) is comparable to your existence being a grain of sand in the Sahara desert. This isn't meant to make you feel insignificant but kinda fucking awesome. Yeah life maybe a tough bitch at times and kids die young good people die horribly but its better than not having a shot of it in the first place.

Sorry is this sounds cheesy but its kinda what gets me through the tough times. Just surround yourself with good, honest people, be kind and appreciate the little things and you won't need a religion or shit to make your life feel purposeful.
 
Oblivion said:
Okay, this is kind of complicated and probably also dumb, but here goes.

I was born into a religious family. I guess you could say I was fairly religious. I believed in the rules established by my religion, and was really convinced that it was the 'right' one. I did have certain questions, that I'm sure most religious people had at least one point in their lives (like "Why is our religion the right one?"), but the answer to those questions were pretty much always: STFU.

But I went about my business and just accepted it. Around the time I was 18 or 19, I came across a debate about religion on one of the very first forums I used to frequent. One of the posters was an atheist (you could probably guess which side he was arguing), and he made a bunch of excellent points about the contradictions, hypocrisies, inconsistencies and paradoxes about organized religion that I couldn't help but feel enlightened. About a week after following the debate, I was of the opinion that all organized religion is baloney, and that you don't need religion to be a moral person. Interestingly enough, I didn't have a crisis of faith at the time like you would expect to happen once finding out that nearly everything you believed in was a lie. In fact, I was quite happy with my new found belief system.

However, I didn't consider myself an atheist. I still believed in a "God", or some sort of higher power. One that was as powerful as the gods of the major religions, but not bound by the arbitrary rules created with most religions (such as pre-marital sex being a no-no). However, throughout the past several months I've come to find myself drifting more and more to the side of atheism. The problem with this is that it seems to take away any meaning life had to offer. I mean, is life really just an accident? It's one thing when your parents call you that, but for it to actually be true on a cosmic scale? The more I think about it, the more questions come up. Why are you who you are, where you are, at what point in time you are? I mean, babies that are born, just to die from tay sacch's (sp?) or something? The hundreds of thousands of people that die every year, why aren't you one of them?

Needless to say, it's gotten pretty depressing. I've been feeling a hell of a lot more paranoid about being killed. I feel a bit better than I did a little while back when all of this hit me at once, but I don't know if I'll ever be able to go back to that blissful sense of ignorance about such matters.

So now I need help to get my life back on track. If anyone has any advice, or books or whatever to help cope with this existential crisis I'd appreciate it. I'm 25 years old, I shouldn't be feeling this way, dammit! :(


You might want to start looking into something like Zen, which basically says that all that stuff is kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme (you can't affect it, so worrying is wasted energy) and ultimately unanswerable by intellectual inquiry, and that spiritual enlightenment isn't in that stuff anyway, but by existing fully in the here & now.
 
Yeah, I found it difficult to come to terms with the eternal nothingness angle to atheism - that you just die and that's it. But look at it this way: If you don't exist, you won't be around to be all disappointed.
 
I never really understood the fear of non-existence. It wasn't too bad for the 14 billion years or so before I was born, and it won't be bad for the eternity after I die.
 
Lost Fragment said:
I never really understood the fear of non-existence. It wasn't too bad for the 14 billion years or so before I was born, and it won't be bad for the eternity after I die.
doesn't you afraid of anything? :O
 
True, most people will never change anything, and will just live out their lives and then be forgotten a couple of generations later. It's not really such a terrible fate is it? Doesn't it at least comfort you that every other man will also cease to exist? It's not like you're getting shafted. I accepted it a long time ago because I don't have unrealistic views about our importance or why we exist.

I do understand and empathize with the need for a sense of meaning, but it isn't something inherent in humans; you have to create that yourself. To some people simply being in denial of eventual nonexistence is enough, but I think you can do better than that.
 
I'm of the opinion that life if totally meaningless. In nature, we're meant to further the existence of our species by way of mating. What is the point of that? I could understand if it were done to reach a goal, but there isn't one.

There isn't a heaven or hell, when you died you... Die. Simple. So what is the point of living? Of being a good or bad person? There is no point to it. No gain, no loss. If everyone on Earth were to die, there wouldn't any great calamity. No God will weep tears of blood for us. We're just here.

Society tries to make us believe that working, having money and finding love is all very important. That they are the greatest goals we could reach... Yet, these things were all created by us. Figments of our imagination made global in our race due to our inability to accept that life really means nothing.

Tell me, Gaf: Why do we live?
 
goomba said:
Where were you before you were born?? did you have a problem with where you were?

Dont stress, something cant become nothing, you will have manifestations for eternity :D

I was living in some kind of cosmic space realm before I was born but when you agree to come to this realm you loose your memories!

So in a way, we are all like Wolverine
 
I think you should indulge in some Quantum Physics and a bit in Philosophy to get your head thinking of all the possibilities of life and how it all came to be.
 
LiveFromKyoto said:
You might want to start looking into something like Zen, which basically says that all that stuff is kind of irrelevant in the grand scheme (you can't affect it, so worrying is wasted energy) and ultimately unanswerable by intellectual inquiry, and that spiritual enlightenment isn't in that stuff anyway, but by existing fully in the here & now.

This is good advice, Zen is completely compatible with being an atheist, it's actually quite wonderful and it's possible to get over the fear of non-existence and purpose-less-ness which is what people really miss from religon, "meaning" is abundant in life, we are by nature valuing creatures.
Zen won't tell you there's a heaven or a hell though, or that you personally will be reincarnated, or that there's a God who loves you, in fact it won't tell you much at all. It will sound obscure to you at first but that's for very good reasons and necessity but if you're interested it's best to discover why for yourself. Zen isn't going to make you a "moral" person either. It will teach you a great deal about Buddhism and Hinduism, giving you a completely different point of reference to judge the mores and values of your own. And "studying" it might just give you a kind of non-intellectual epiphany that will ease you of your anxiety (the only real existential thing about your situation).

Try starting with some Alan Watts media, I promise you your bullshit detector won't go off.
 
If you're having trouble with coming to terms of life ending, consider the alternative of life never ending. The concept of eternal life is a terrifying one. Imagine if you will, what would you be like one thousand years from now? One million years from now? Several trillion years from now? Would you remember language at that point? Would you have any concept of time at all, or would seconds feel like eons? Can you think of something you used to like that is now boring to you? Can you imagine an existence where everything is boring to you?

Now consider death. Or in your worst-case scenario, oblivion. Becoming nothing. No time, no thoughts, just nothing. Think, before you were born, were you ever sad you aren't born yet? Do you have any negative lingering feeling of the time before you existed? Consider when you are dead, you are not. When you are, you cannot be dead. How can you fear what you can never be?

Maybe the wording is a little off in my last sentence and maybe I'm sounding a tad too preachy. But personally, I don't fear death despite not believing in an afterlife. As I stated, the concept of an afterlife terrifies me. As far as I can tell, oblivion really isn't as bad as people make it seem.

edit: I just noticed the OP's name is Oblivion, how appropriate.
 
OP read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayfly

The thing I'm trying to say is, enjoy the life, your life, don't worry about the things you can't change, or the things you can't answer, don't waste your time searching for the "true" meaning of life. Have fun and do the things you enjoy most.
 
The thought of life being cyclical has really helped me cope with reality and helped me lead my life the way I want to. The idea of Heaven and Hell is boring to me since that means there's an end to life's journey. Reincarnation just sounds like an awesome alternative and seems at least somewhat logical (matter cannot be destroyed, only redirected). Just think about how awesome it would be if in your next life you were a king or a jedi or something crazy like that.

By the way, I'm Jewish with semi-agnostic views. Sorry if this sounds like I'm saying other religions that believe in heaven and hell are stupid.
 
Hire the existential detectives?

1325634_f5c2541d2e.jpg
 
Nothing fullfills me more than the belief that I will one day meet my creator. I want part of heaven to be about answers. This world is so miraculous, we dont even have to start with space.
 
Mana Sin said:
Tell me, Gaf: Why do we live?

There is no "why".

I'm not sure there's any way to combat feelings of insignificance. Personally, as much as I recognise that the world could be destroyed tomorrow and the universe wouldn't bat an eye, I feel that this has only served to give me a greater appreciation of the life in general. On the one hand, the Earth is a one in a billion such that it's existence is a fortunate coincidence (or mathematical likelihood, depending upon your viewpoint). On the other hand, the Earth is a one in a billion such that this makes the life upon it all that so much more amazing.

I think the honest answer is to think about it, not because there's an issue so large and unanswerable that we can't deal with it, but because there's nothing to think about it. There doesn't need to be a "why" to the world, and if this should teach us anything it's to appreciate what we have that much more.
 
YYZ said:
I should add to that. If you don't have children then you should leave some kind of significant legacy for people to know you by. If you've done important work or contributed positively to society then it's all good. Don't just drift on by and/or be a burden on society (a lot of people are).
Solidus is that you
 
I never knew that slowly becoming an atheist brought survivor's guilt along with it for some people. Interesting.
 
YYZ said:
I think the most important thing to do in life is to have offspring,
...
I should add to that. If you don't have children then you should leave some kind of significant legacy for people to know you by. If you've done important work or contributed positively to society then it's all good. Don't just drift on by and/or be a burden on society (a lot of people are).

(Almost) Anyone can procreate. A lot of children are never anything significant. A lot of children make the world a worse place. You should still shoot for something else regardless. If this was my ultimate goal in life I'd be pretty sad. :lol
 
I've always believed that religion and the concepts of God, heaven and hell were limited interpretations of people's actual experiences over countless generations.

People's understanding of 'God' is rooted firmly in their own limited perceptions. I mean 'God created man in his own image' should read as 'man created God in his own image'.

I believe in an interconnected universe where everything exists as energy (which is essentially what we are if you consider the bio-electrical energy buzzing around in our brains) which is probably something people see as spiritual garbage and I would too if I hadn't have experienced something that made me think that way.
 
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