• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Dear Criterion - Burnout Paradise, my beef.

plagiarize said:
alright. one last time. what criterion wanted to do was force people to play the game differently. what they wanted to do was force people to learn the paradise. you can't force people to do those things if you leave in a retry option.
Click to expand...

Sure you can. If they had a restart option in there, I'd still be playing the game, and I'd be trying to complete all the challenges, which requires "exploring" the city.
 
The Faceless Master said:
irony!
Click to expand...
eh? i think you read my post wrong. i totally understand your point of view. i just think the incessant whining about it is pointless given Criterion's stance. you seem to have just accepted that the game isn't for you and move on, based on your post earlier in the thread.
 
plagiarize said:
alright. one last time. what criterion wanted to do was force people to play the game differently. what they wanted to do was force people to learn the paradise. you can't force people to do those things if you leave in a retry option.
Click to expand...
Exactly, once you've learned the city from doing some events and races you've got it down. You won't need to retry anything because you know the city and you know how to maneuver around it to make it so you do win the races.
 
plagiarize said:
if the burning routes were a fraction as difficult as the burning laps of past burnout games i'd probably agree with you, but they are much much easier. they usually take me 1 to 3 tries to beat, and very quickly you learn about how much leeway you have for mistakes. plus, you are always rewarded with a new car as a result... and i'm pretty sure that you can clear your B license without doing a single one. you'll still unlock new cars as you go through events.

only someone who needs to 100% the game to feel like they got their money's worth, or has to focus on one event at a time is really going to find it a problem.
Click to expand...

EVERY burning route unlocks a car. Not doing them is stupid.

And its not that the burning routes are that hard, its that fucking up in the last 30 seconds and having to drive across the map the start all over again is annoying as hell.
 
plagiarize said:
alright. one last time. what criterion wanted to do was force people to play the game differently. what they wanted to do was force people to learn the paradise. you can't force people to do those things if you leave in a retry option.
Click to expand...

Worst reason ever. You know how you get better at racing? By repetition and that's exactly what they take from me. I could refine my route every time I try but but instead we have this shit.
 
i'm amazed at how the retry option will make people magically not discover the city.

Aladuf said:
Not buying this game because of a lack of a retry option is crazy. First off, the races in this game are really not that hard, I've beaten the game twice and I can literally count on two hands how many times I've lost a race in the SP portion of the game. And the fact that there's 120 events in the game, it kinda helps if you do lose a race so pretty much wherever you wind up after losing the race you can just find the next intersection and start up another race or different event.

After playing so much Paradise lately I decided to give Revenge a try last week... it was so shitty compared to Paradise (imo), I had to sell it right away.
Click to expand...

the game being easy, unlike other burnouts seems like another good reason not to buy the game.

i guess it's confirmed that they wanted to water down and casualize the game even more, to appease to the LCD.
 
TheGreatDave said:
Sure you can. If they had a restart option in there, I'd still be playing the game, and I'd be trying to complete all the challenges, which requires "exploring" the city.
Click to expand...
they didn't want people to play the game linearly focussing on one event at a time. they felt that you wouldn't learn the city if retry was in there. we can debate all day about whether or not that's a smart decision and whether or not you'd learn the city anyway. i never tell someone who hates that it isn't there that they are wrong to... i just argue against what i see is a flawed notion that if the option was there it would make everyone happy.

i mean, sure, if paradise 2 has the option i'll probably play it just like paradise knowing that i had more fun that way, but it'll still take the edge off of the races for me. all i'm ever trying to explain to people in these threads is two things.

1. why some of us like that the option isn't there (and i state AGAIN that i get why people hate that the option is gone).

2. that whether or not you like the decision that Criterion feel very strongly about it and have stood by it at every opportunity and aren't going to change it.

that's all i'm trying to get across here. some people can't understand why some of us like it, so i'm trying to explain to them how that can be, not convert them into fans of the game... and at the same time i'm trying to show people that complaining about this is a waste of time. if criterion were unaware how many people were upset about it and open to patching in retry, it wouldn't be a waste of time complaining about it, but they're fully aware and happy to stand by their design decisions even as it costs them sales, so there's really little point to keep bringing this up.

i'll be honest, some of my frustrations on the issue this thread isn't guilty of and that pent up frustrations is probably coming out to a degree. every burnout paradise thread people roll out their tired complaints. we can't talk about this game without the people that don't like the lack of a retry option shitting up every thread.

that isn't something this thread is guilty of, because it's purely about that issue, but you have to appreciate that a lot of us are bored with hearing the same complaints over and over again. those of us still playing the game 8 months on really don't care, and thought we might be able to have a nice conversation about the bike pack without the same crap coming up. so yeah, we're probably all a bit blunt by now.
 
plagiarize said:
they didn't want people to play the game linearly focussing on one event at a time. they felt that you wouldn't learn the city if retry was in there. we can debate all day about whether or not that's a smart decision and whether or not you'd learn the city anyway. i never tell someone who hates that it isn't there that they are wrong to... i just argue against what i see is a flawed notion that if the option was there it would make everyone happy.

i mean, sure, if paradise 2 has the option i'll probably play it just like paradise knowing that i had more fun that way, but it'll still take the edge off of the races for me. all i'm ever trying to explain to people in these threads is two things.

1. why some of us like that the option isn't there (and i state AGAIN that i get why people hate that the option is gone).

2. that whether or not you like the decision that Criterion feel very strongly about it and have stood by it at every opportunity and aren't going to change it.

that's all i'm trying to get across here. some people can't understand why some of us like it, so i'm trying to explain to them how that can be, not convert them into fans of the game... and at the same time i'm trying to show people that complaining about this is a waste of time. if criterion were unaware how many people were upset about it and open to patching in retry, it wouldn't be a waste of time complaining about it, but they're fully aware and happy to stand by their design decisions even as it costs them sales, so there's really little point to keep bringing this up.

i'll be honest, some of my frustrations on the issue this thread isn't guilty of and that pent up frustrations is probably coming out to a degree. every burnout paradise thread people roll out their tired complaints. we can't talk about this game without the people that don't like the lack of a retry option shitting up every thread.

that isn't something this thread is guilty of, because it's purely about that issue, but you have to appreciate that a lot of us are bored with hearing the same complaints over and over again. those of us still playing the game 8 months on really don't care, and thought we might be able to have a nice conversation about the bike pack without the same crap coming up. so yeah, we're probably all a bit blunt by now.
Click to expand...
point 1 confuses me.

do you just not have the self control to not use retry?

will the option being there burn at your soul when you lose a race and compel you to retry?

are you having a great time with your sweet revenge on people who bring up the same complaints into every paradise thread by jumping into a complaint thread and cluttering it up with your weak justifications?
 
plagiarize said:
they didn't want people to play the game linearly focussing on one event at a time. they felt that you wouldn't learn the city if retry was in there. we can debate all day about whether or not that's a smart decision and whether or not you'd learn the city anyway. i never tell someone who hates that it isn't there that they are wrong to... i just argue against what i see is a flawed notion that if the option was there it would make everyone happy.
Click to expand...

How can an option make somebody unhappy? That's my problem with it. There's no reason not to have it there; make it a cheat code if you have to, but don't expect me to change the way I play games just because you decide your "new" way is better.
 
The Faceless Master said:
point 1 confuses me.

do you just not have the self control to not use retry?

will the option being there burn at your soul when you lose a race and compel you to retry?

are you having a great time with your sweet revenge on people who bring up the same complaints into every paradise thread by jumping into a complaint thread and cluttering it up with your weak justifications?
Click to expand...
let me explain point 1 to you again.

i would never have played paradise the way i do if criterion hadn't pushed me into trying it. i enjoyed playing paradise the way they made me try more than i enjoyed retrying one event over and over until beating it. if the retry option was there, i'd have played it like i played every burnout... going one event at a time, retrying until i beat it.

you've never been forced to try something or do something a way other than you normally would and found that you liked it?

i wouldn't be unhappy with paradise if it had had a retry all along... but i'd never have started playing it the way i play it now, and i wouldn't like it as much.

and as i've said many times before, like limited saves in a horror game rather than save whenever, NOT having the option of retry adds more tension, and i like a bit of edge of my seat racing thrills in a burnout game. being able to choose not to use quicksave or retry isn't the same as knowing you can't choose to do those things psychologically.

this is all just my personal opinion of the game. i already fully understand why it's such a deal breaker for some people... but since you seem to think no one could possibly benefit from the option not being there, i'm trying to show you how i myself personally did benefit from it.

you can still want the option, but i find the whole line of argument that no one would lose out on anything were it there a bit insulting because i know i would.
 
You do know that if you are on a 'challenge' and you crash a couple times and realize you won't beat it, just hit the brakes and sit still for 2 seconds and its quits it...it will save you time on the drive back...
 
Gbeav said:
I do see your point but I'm not going to learn the entire map so I can do races back and forth in an area so large.
Click to expand...

i also wouldnt mind the retry option, but that isnt the biggest problem with learning the map. i'm sure its been said lots-o-times before, but i hate getting lost during a race, or having to look away from my car at all to see where i need to go.

this didnt become a problem for me until way later in the game...like around A license or so. the cars become so fast it gets too hard for me to manage all the navigation stuff and race and not crash at the same time. i imagine this game would be off the fucking chain if i knew the city well enough not to need these navigation points.
 
bistromathics said:
i also wouldnt mind the retry option, but that isnt the biggest problem with learning the map. i'm sure its been said lots-o-times before, but i hate getting lost during a race, or having to look away from my car at all to see where i need to go.

this didnt become a problem for me until way later in the game...like around A license or so. the cars become so fast it gets too hard for me to manage all the navigation stuff and race and not crash at the same time. i imagine this game would be off the fucking chain if i knew the city well enough not to need these navigation points.
Click to expand...

I have very poor spatial reasoning so I tend to turn too fucking early (because I can't see the junction/turn coming) and crash into a wall. Very frustrating. What's worse is that I always seem to screw up just at the last turn. Sonofabitch.
 
The only issue with the lack of a retry is having to drive out west in an event and having to go back. Other then that, there is little issue with the lack of a retry, especially since it is such a massive game with so many events. Toward the end it might be more of a problem, but you'll have very fast cars by then.
 
Having to go back all the way to the starting point after you lose a race in a racing game will go down as one of the dumbest design choices in vg history.
 
raziel said:
Having to go back all the way to the starting point after you lose a race in a racing game will go down as one of the dumbest design choices in vg history.
Click to expand...

If there was a restart option people wouldn't learn the city routes, which is key to having fun in that game.

If anything, they should add a waypoint system: allow the player to select a destination and tie that into the game's built in nav system. That'd help.
 
I find the lack of a real crash mode far more unforgivable than the no replay option. I'd really have liked them to put BOTH in, but given a choice, the crash mode was entirely unique of Burnout games. No other game in the world off the top of my head has a mode where your objective is to make the biggest traffic accident possible at high speed. Everyone adores crash mode. And you ditch it so your game can be another me-too sandbox offering? Meh.
 
OP, your LTTP $30 doesn't mean shit to Criterion. If you refuse to buy one of the best games of this generation at half price because it doesn't include a "retry" option, then that's your loss not theirs. I think the developers have gone above and beyond in adding free content and keeping their game fresh and interesting. The amount of replay value for casual/hardcore or single/multiplayer fun is just overwhelming.

If you don't consider driving around an open world where you can jump, flip, crash, drift, wreck traffic, etc as "fun" then you shouldn't be playing the game.

Sure there are times when having the option to "retry" might be nice, but it also would break the immersiveness of the Burnout Paradise world and cause loading times: two things I'd rather avoid. I stopped playing "Revenge" because of load times when retrying.
 
~Devil Trigger~ said:
I only beef with this game

is that @ whatever speed, i tap the breaks and the car turns 360 degrees!!!

piss my the fuck off, till this day i cant remember when i have actually drifted in Paradise, which i did alot of in other Burnout titles.
Click to expand...
you do know there are two brakes in the game, right? one is for drifting and one is for hard turns like what you describe.

I have put more into this game than any of the previous Burnouts so I think I enjoyed their decision. I do not miss the long load times waiting for a full race to load and then again for when I hit "retry" when I miss winning by a few seconds.
 
Eccocid said:
I understand you and i think free roaming is so boring. I would prefer a menu based race system where i can choose race tracks and start from here. IT just hassle to drive everywhere for events. I mean it feels like a boring interactive userinterface. Why would i want to spend time for picking up a race ? And city is quite dull visually imo. I miss good old race tracks with laps.
Click to expand...

IAWTP, I just want to race. Select a vehicle, paint, Automatic or manual, then race.
 
OG_Original Gamer said:
IAWTP, I just want to race. Select a vehicle, paint, Automatic or manual, then race.
Click to expand...
then there are plenty of good racing games that offer such things. if you haven't played Grid yet, i highly recommend it. motorstorm 2 is out soon and should be a blast also.

there are plenty of titles out there catering for you. give one a try!
 
OG_Original Gamer said:
IAWTP, I just want to race. Select a vehicle, paint, Automatic or manual, then race.
Click to expand...

Need For Speed: Underground 2 had this,
and it was free roaming.

You had the option of choosing to drive there to do the race, or just starting it up. :P
I myself, like having the option, but Burnout Paradise is too good to pass up.
 
JESUS CHRIST. THERE IS NO FUCKING RETRY OPTION. THERE WILL NEVER BE A FUCKING RETRY OPTION. JUST LET IT THE FUCK GO.

If you want a retry option, you are playing the game wrong. And if you're not interested in playing the game right, the game isn't for you. It's not like there's a dearth of racers -- just play something else.
 
BobJustBob said:
JESUS CHRIST. THERE IS NO FUCKING RETRY OPTION. THERE WILL NEVER BE A FUCKING RETRY OPTION. JUST LET IT THE FUCK GO.

If you want a retry option, you are playing the game wrong. And if you're not interested in playing the game right, the game isn't for you. It's not like there's a dearth of racers -- just play something else.
Click to expand...


This is what I wanted to say. We get it, theres no retry. If you dont like it, dont play it. Its as simple as that.
 
This is the videogame equivalent of the religion debate; neverending and always unsatisfying. In the glorious future, schools across the world will discuss Burnout Paradise in debate classes.
 
BobJustBob said:
JESUS CHRIST. THERE IS NO FUCKING RETRY OPTION. THERE WILL NEVER BE A FUCKING RETRY OPTION. JUST LET IT THE FUCK GO.

If you want a retry option, you are playing the game wrong. And if you're not interested in playing the game right, the game isn't for you. It's not like there's a dearth of racers -- just play something else.
Click to expand...
that's exactly what i've been saying all along. they don't want my money.

however, some people seem to think that criterion somehow DESERVES my money despite them obviously not wanting it. that's the bizarre part.
 
The Faceless Master said:
that's exactly what i've been saying all along. they don't want my money.

however, some people seem to think that criterion somehow DESERVES my money despite them obviously not wanting it. that's the bizarre part.
Click to expand...
hey, we don't disagree on that at all. it is bizarre. i'm happy to say to someone 'it's not for you, and there's nothing wrong with that'... but just as we get people trying to convince you that you should buy it as is, you get people indignant that Criterion dare not add the feature they want so that they can enjoy the game.

that's also bizarre to me. if you don't like the game, move on, as you seem to have. don't be all WHY DIDN'T YOU MAKE A GAME THAT APPEALS TO ME CRITERION WHY? HOW DARE YOU! DO YOU NOT WANT MONEY? and all that.

people on GAF have a very sales focussed attitude and the thought that a developer is knowingly turning away sales in order to maintain what they see as the integrity of their title just doesn't compute in a lot of gaffer's minds who seem to think that game design is solely just about making money.

it's nice to know that there are some developers out there that see making money as a happy side effect rather than the whole goal of a project.
 
MutFox said:
Need For Speed: Underground 2 had this,
and it was free roaming.

You had the option of choosing to drive there to do the race, or just starting it up. :P
Click to expand...

Exactly and it worked well.
 
I'll never gate the hate of backtracking in open games like that with tons of stuff to look for. If you don't want to explore the city, what's the point of playing Burnout Paradise?
 
just got off playing

the handling is SERIOUSLY pissing me off, keeping from putting this on my 2008 GOTY list, not having fun when i can win races cuz of this bullshit. I put in at least 150 Hours in takedown & Revenge, and i never thought controls would be a problem in a future Burnout game....

Anybody got tips on how the hell you take a turn? drift? with spinning out of control or crashing into a wall?
 
~Devil Trigger~ said:
just got off playing

the handling is SERIOUSLY pissing me off, keeping from putting this on my 2008 GOTY list, not having fun when i can win races cuz of this bullshit. I put in at least 150 Hours in takedown & Revenge, and i never thought controls would be a problem in a future Burnout game....

Anybody got tips on how the hell you take a turn? drift? with spinning out of control or crashing into a wall?
Click to expand...
You have to be doing something wrong, cause I nail most of my turns with 90% success rate without losing much speed. The other 10% I get blindsided by cars that coming off the screen. Usually, it's a quick tap on the brake to start a drift, and hold on to dear life while controlling the car in a controlled fishtail maneuver.

Oh, and I'm assuming you are using cars with decent handling, because I have never figured out how to handle some of the slower, more aggressive cars on corners without taking massive speed reduction.
 
Some of you guys need to buy the game.. then bitch about it. You can't bitch about something you don't own :/ I for one would have been pissed if all they did was make Burnout Revenge with HD graphics. They took a chance and tried something new.. that's how you innovate.. you take chances. And all you really need to know is the general direction of where your going. The game tells you turn right and left when you need to.. you don't really have to look at the map at all while racing.
 
McLovin said:
Some of you guys need to buy the game.. then bitch about it. You can't bitch about something you don't own :/ I for one would have been pissed if all they did was make Burnout Revenge with HD graphics. They took a chance and tried something new.. that's how you innovate.. you take chances. And all you really need to know is the general direction of where your going. The game tells you turn right and left when you need to.. you don't really have to look at the map at all while racing.
Click to expand...

I rented it, got my B license then sent it back for the next title in my Q. They would have had me with a sale at day one with a retry and crash option.

Again, to each and every person defending this game... would you still have bought the game if it had a retry option?
 
OldJadedGamer said:
I rented it, got my B license then sent it back for the next title in my Q. They would have had me with a sale at day one with a retry and crash option.

Again, to each and every person defending this game... would you still have bought the game if it had a retry option?
Click to expand...
Yes. But I highly doubt I would have played 60+ hours. It would had been no different than Revenge on 360, and I would have never finished the game.
 
game is missing a few things that would make it perfect. A retry option, waypoint markers and (maybe) a quick jump to event start.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Is there any open world racing games like test drive unlimited or burnout paradise with sprawling single player and exploration?
30
976
ReBurn replied
Dear Publishers (Health of the Industry - 2026)
2
90
991
archangelmorph replied
POSTAL: Bullet Paradise Announcement Trailer
Trailer 
19
559
Kupfer replied
Stunt Paradise 2 - Official Demo Launch Trailer
Trailer Indie 
1
178
IbizaPocholo replied
Dear Sony
2
54
1K
yurinka replied
Top Bottom