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Death Battle: Son Goku vs. Superman 2

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A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
I'm sorry man those are laughable. lol "fighting genius" is redirecting the destructo disk and being able to fight as a candy.
To be fair your examples were terrible as well because they were largely unrelated to actual fighting (as well as a few of them being plain wrong). Goku is far from a grand strategic genius, but if the expert martial artists in the series believe him to be a fighting genius, then the characterisation is there to support that. Goku rarely relies on huge blasts to defeat opponents and often has some level of analysis, control or mastery in his performances. This was seen a lot more in early Dragon Ball, where techniques were more prominent, but it pops up later too. He had to fight smart against Vegeta, who was stronger than him without the Kaio Ken, and again when it was a broken down Goku plus others struggling against Giant Ape Vegeta. The same applies to his fight with Freeza (pre SS). Played rope-a-dope with full power Freeza. His fight with Cell was largely a ploy to allow Gohan to analyse him that required Goku to test a range of techniques and tactics against a more powerful opponent. As mentioned before he also recognised the drawbacks of the more powerful SS forms and instead focussed on efficiency. He defeated that light absorbing monster by demonstrating a control over his energy output that made Vegeta literally insanely jealous. He got frustrated during Gohan's fight against the Demon King not because Gohan had gotten weaker, but because he was fighting stupidly.

actually didnt Batman and Wonder Woman teach Superman martial arts? Goku just has no chance
Goku can teach Superman some martial arts in exchange for Superman teaching him how to be an actual hero.
 
To be fair your examples were terrible as well because they were largely unrelated to actual fighting (as well as a few of them being plain wrong).

How so? Making strategic decisions during a fight are pretty integral. Most of the examples I pointed out happened during the course of a fight. Just because the actual context of the example doesn't include moves being thrown doesn't mean it devalues its importance during a battle in a life or death situation. Example: The Martians are pretty powerful fighters, but it doesn't mean shit when Batman knows their weakness to fire and sets them up to be in a situation to take advantage of that fact.

Which few of my examples were wrong?
 

Raiden

Banned
Its really amazing to see how people can discuss this topic as if it were cars with specs and limits. While in fact these writers just make shit up on the go half the time.
 

Stage On

Member
actually didnt Batman and Wonder Woman teach Superman martial arts? Goku just has no chance

Depends on the version. Post Crisis Superman knew some martial arts thought he's hardly black belt level by any stretch.

New 52 Superman doesn't really know any. So the fact they where combining Post crisis and New 52 is really lame.
 

ElFly

Member
Alright firstly... let's not act like modern day Superman is some weak chump here... all the strength and durability feats that have been cited so far pertain to modern Superman, not pre-crisis. Modern Superman is still way, way too much for Goku to handle. I'm also not sure why you're basing all his abilities on a comic that came out in 1992, as though there's been nothing since to suggest Superman can outperform that... I guess it's probably because that's the only Superman comic that a DBZ diehard has any interest in... plus, in any situation where Superman fights an enemy in a populated area, the "World of Cardboard" speech applies. If a human is in range to see the fight, then the fight probably doesn't demonstrate Superman's top end.

Ah that's some copout; it's not like in the previous example of fighting all the way around the world the world is depopulated.

Ok so you are going to discount doomsday because of random reasons. Let's rise up to COIE, where at some places there are no such excuses.

I'm not saying DBZ characters can't take powerful punches... but powerful by what metric exactly? By the metric of characters squatting some hundreds of tons in 10X gravity... or powerful as in bench pressing the weight of the earth effortlessly?

I feel that the bench pressing example doesn't translate to punching power; normally it would be related, but again, you are the one arguing that regular physics don't apply here. Superman's fights don't show bench pressing planet strength, or else the planet itself would collapse when someone takes a punch and is not sent flying. That's not what we see happening in any for reals battle.

As far as I know, there's no example of a DBZ character taking a hit from someone with Superman's strength, which is exponentially greater than someone like Goku. I'm also not sure what's convincing you that Goku could dodge it either considering how much faster Superman is shown to move than anyone in DBZ. Goku probably couldn't react to Superman flying at him at top speed, let alone a punch as fast as Supes can throw it.

Again, why doesn't he do that stuff against Doomsday. Or Darkseid. I don't doubt he can do it, I doubt it'd work in a fight, particularly a fight against someone who is used to fighting stronger enemies (unlike, say, Darkseid).

It would have applied even prior to the existence of DCAU. It's inherent to Superman's character that he'll try and keep the people of Earth safe at his own expense. In a SA style Death Battle though, that concern would be removed.

At some points Superman does fight Darkseid on Apokolips. Surely those kind of limiters would be removed there. Or for example, in COIE when fighting the anti monitor. At some point Supes, in space, with no civilians around, with literally everything on the line, goes all out against the Anti Monitor, and he does almost nothing. Supergirl does exactly what you suggest. It does damage the antimonitor's body a little enough to force him to retreat, but we don't really see the world they are on damaged more than what's caused by the antimonitor's body falling.

Now, that world does weak them, but only a little. They are still super strong, super fast. The only thing we see that makes them weaker is that they can bleed. As far as we see, it is the only effect. The world is harsher, but Supergirl has no trouble picking blocks and chucking them. They are still super powerful.

So again, why, with no civilians around, with literally the existance of everything on the line, why their fight doesn't destroy at least the world they are standing on. When the super people actually pull out the very stunts you suggest, there's little colateral damage.

The answer is, they are trying to hit hard, but are not hitting really hard by any measure.

Meanwhile, when Goku and co fight, shit explodes around them. Planets literally explode under their feet. Or they have to deflect attacks to protect the planet.

They actually fly at super speeds face on against enemies. All that ends up happening is some columns fall. Now, the fortress does destroy itself after the battle, but it seems to be the antimonitor just doing it out of spite. During the battle itself, there's little damage.

You may wax theories about super strength from benching planets, but in coie, when it actually mattered, they weren't really hitting that hard as the so called planet benching would suggest. And if they didn't pull it out in COIE is because they just can't, because at several points there's no way to hold back. There are no higher-than-COIE stakes. No "death battle rules" to suggest they can perform better than that if they really wanted to. No civilians around excuses blah blah.

What we really see is that they are not that strong. Flying fast against an enemy doesn't work that well.
 
Seriously dude. It's obvious you don't read comics here. PAINFULLY obvious. Just bow out.

Ah that's some copout; it's not like in the previous example of fighting all the way around the world the world is depopulated.

Ok so you are going to discount doomsday because of random reasons. Let's rise up to COIE, where at some places there are no such excuses.

1.) Doomsday isn't slow. at all. Doomsday is just as fast as superman is and can fight at FTL speeds. Booster Gold said that Doomsday in his first appearance was faster than the goddamn Flash when he beat the shit out of the justice league. He is WAY more powerful now.

858474-doomsday_faster_than_flash.jpg

In fact, Doomsday's powerset requires him to invent literally any power set necessary to evolve past whatever managed to kill him previously. there is nothing Doomsday can't do.

1b.) I just saw this bit of stupidity

The Flash is just a human otherwise, tho. He is not super strong. I mean, he can probably punch at light speed, which is strong, but that speed doesn't really help him if he has to take the flick of the finger.

The flash is not "just a human." the mass of the flash goes up with his speed. At max speed the flash has INFINITE MASS.


you cannot destroy something of infinite mass with "a flick of the finger." you will break your finger. The only reason the entire solar system doesn't collapse into a singularity with Flash at the center is because the speed force is a plot device that prevents it. Literally every post you make says "Hi, I've never read anything about this character I'm commenting on."


2.) COIE was Pre-Crisis superman, who is explicitly banned from discussion because that one is SO powerful that trying to argue against him is useless. That's the one that tanked the big bang, could time travel under his own power, towed planets around on a chain, and sneezed galaxies into oblivion. You want to argue THAT superman's feats against Goku? impossible.

3.) The anti monitor was a universe wrecker which was the point. he was eating universes at will like Galactus, but was massively more powerful. Considering how badly the "Beerus is just as powerful as Galactus!" argument you tried to make just went, I would let this go since it's obvious you know even less about the anti monitor than you do about Galactus.

Trying to argue that superman couldn't hurt the Anti-Monitor so he must be weak is idiocy. The amount of characters you can name in comics or otherwise that are THAT powerful is in the single digits, and it doesn't include anyone in DBZ.

I feel that the bench pressing example doesn't translate to punching power; normally it would be related, but again, you are the one arguing that regular physics don't apply here. Superman's fights don't show bench pressing planet strength, or else the planet itself would collapse when someone takes a punch and is not sent flying. That's not what we see happening in any for reals battle.

superman has punching feats just as ridiculous as his bench pressing feats. He routinely punches opponents into orbit

1904403-supeslobo0uo.jpg


and hit wonderwoman so hard she went from the Sun to the Earth in seconds

2950516-1048701380-26776.jpg


Punching someone as strong as he is so hard they go 92 million miles in a couple of seconds is so far out of the range of DBZ it's pointless to try to make that discussion.

Again, why doesn't he do that stuff against Doomsday. Or Darkseid. I don't doubt he can do it, I doubt it'd work in a fight, particularly a fight against someone who is used to fighting stronger enemies (unlike, say, Darkseid).

Those two are as strong or stronger than he is. You want to put Goku up against Doomsday or Darkseid he'll lose twice as fast.

Meanwhile, when Goku and co fight, shit explodes around them. Planets literally explode under their feet. Or they have to deflect attacks to protect the planet.

Because Superman doesn't want to kill millions of people with collateral damage? This is a stupid argument.
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
How so? Making strategic decisions during a fight are pretty integral. Most of the examples I pointed out happened during the course of a fight. Just because the actual context of the example doesn't include moves being thrown doesn't mean it devalues its importance during a battle in a life or death situation. Example: The Martians are pretty powerful fighters, but it doesn't mean shit when Batman knows their weakness to fire and sets them up to be in a situation to take advantage of that fact.

Which few of my examples were wrong?
We're talking about the difference between a genius at fighting and a clever tactician/strategist in general. Look at it this way, if all of Goku's fights were in a tournament, where moral decisions or long term planning were irrelevant, none of the examples you gave would apply. As it is, pretty much every opponent he encounters makes mention of what a shit warrior he'd make, especially the other Saiyans. But that doesn't mean he can't be a genius at fighting, based on both the tangible examples given in this thread and on informed details, e.g. things like characters saying "his stance is impenetrable" or Beerus stating that his retention of god level power is due to his prodigious skill. So yeah, I'd strongly disagree with the notion that the character is only shown to succeed through sheer force.

As for which of your examples were wrong, I was pretty much referring to the Cell ones. Goku's plan was entirely based around him knowing that not only did Gohan have massive hidden potential, but that his son had already surpassed him during their training. Beyond the lack of clarity about just how many times someone can go into the time chamber (Goku already went in as a kid), he tried to minimise their training time to focus on emotional preparedness. Which considering what an absentee father he is was probably not a bad idea. He fights Cell first to help prepare Gohan. As for healing Cell, IDK if this is just due to his ridiculous insistence on a fair fight or if he felt that a fatigued Cell wouldn't be enough to fully unleash Gohan (like what happened with Raditz, Nappa, Freeza etc...). Teleporting Cell to King Kai's place I don't see a big problem with considering the only consequence was that King Kai was made temporarily homeless. The big mistake he made was in not fully understanding the differences between why he fights and why Gohan does, which lead to the parts where Gohan wasn't fighting back, where he tortured Cell instead of finishing him etc... none of which would have been fixed by more training.
 
I see the Superman/Wonderwoman example was already posted.

Kinda removes the need for my reply... Over to you.

Superman vs. Bizarro. (They appear to be body swapped for some reason here).

Superman (in bizarro's body) punches his opponent straight through the earth's core and out the other side into fucking china.

ECWFHp9.jpg
 
on that fight. Bat kicked supes' ass and then feigned death.

Supes had a swollen eye tho. He did take damage. From a regular guy in a robot suit powered by a lamppost -that may or may not have been sucking light from the whole city-.



His life wasn't on the line there. Again, Doomsday, World of Cardboard.

his life was on the line during the Age of Obsidian, he ran into someone with equal or more power who didn't care about collateral damage and was more savage and Superman and the rest of the JLA died as a result.
 

Slayven

Member
He is, but typically isn't written to the level of someone like lex luthor, batman, reed richards, etc. DC has "intellect levels" to quantify things- I don't know where superman is on that scale, maybe slayven does.

My understanding is that a lot of that comes from his ability to process things and think at super speed- flash can do the same thing, but typically isn't thought of as a great creative mind.

DC's intelligence scale is weird. Supposedly everyone is Batman/Lex level on Earth in the 31st century, but that doesn't really seem to be reflected in what I have read of legion.
Its early so my brain ain't firing yet, but DC super science is weird. Cause pound for pound they have more super scientist than most comic universes. But the tend to be uber specialized.

Dr. Magnus, T.O. Morrrow, and Dr.Ivo top tier AI and robotics dudes ( they can make them powerful but they can't make them Ultron Smart)

Atom is pretty dupe at physics,

Lex Luthor, Mr.Terffic, and Brainac(pick your favorite one) seems the best all around dudes.

Virl Drax is in there somewhere, but he loves being an asshole too much


Batman is smart but his talent is building on the work of others.
Superman is the most unstoppable comic super hero of all time. This was a stupid matchup.

He isn't isn't even in the top five most powerful people on the planet. Let alone universe.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
Dr. Magnus, T.O. Morrrow, and Dr.Ivo top tier AI and robotics dudes ( they can make them powerful but they can't make them Ultron Smart)

Doesn't Amazo have the potential to become a super genius? At least in the DCAU he did but I'm not sure if the comic version managed to reach that level.
 
Its really amazing to see how people can discuss this topic as if it were cars with specs and limits. While in fact these writers just make shit up on the go half the time.

Pretty much this. The real reason why Superman is so "overpowered" is because he has been handled by dozens of writers, while Goku has been handled only by Toriyama. It's so hilarious how both Superman and Goku throughout their careers have been so inconsistent over what they struggle with and what they overcome. Hell even the battle video shows this. How the fuck does Superman get blown away by Goku's punches but can just walk through his most powerful kamehameha attack?

I will admit that I agree with their premise though. Goku's core central theme is that he is a character who will overcome any limits, while Superman's core central theme is that he is a character without limits. I also agree with what many posters say in here. The reason why Superman is nowhere near as popular as Batman or Spiderman is because he is boring as shit. He is incredibly generic and is just very unrelatable to most people.
 

Aegus

Member
and hit wonderwoman so hard she went from the Sun to the Earth in seconds

2950516-1048701380-26776.jpg


Punching someone as strong as he is so hard they go 92 million miles in a couple of seconds is so far out of the range of DBZ it's pointless to try to make that discussion.

What actually impresses me more is that he was able to direct WW to the Earth in the first place. That's like hitting golf ball through the front door of a hotel to land in a hole on the 33rd floor.
 

Slayven

Member
Doesn't Amazo have the potential to become a super genius? At least in the DCAU he did but I'm not sure if the comic version managed to reach that level.

Potential yeah, but he was around numerous smart people and never showed using it. But he only ever been build with the driving programming of beating the JLA.

The only power copyer that took it to the logical extreme was Protege

Protege1.jpg
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
The only superman comic I've ever read was Red Son, is he as OP in 52 as he is in that?

Lex and him were absurdly smart in that, too.
 

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
Punching someone as strong as he is so hard they go 92 million miles in a couple of seconds is so far out of the range of DBZ it's pointless to try to make that discussion.
except that getting blasted into the sun from earth in a couple of seconds is literally how Cooler died.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I'm also laughing at the fact that people think Goku is a great character.

I'm still waiting for an answer if Maxwell Lord could solo the DB universe.
 
that is an incredibly tenuous distinction to make for someone arguing that the feat should be impossible.

No, because the discussion was who was physically stronger. A poster admitted that Superman's lifting feats were drastically past Gokus, but doubted that translated to physical striking ability.

Thus examples of superman having absurd physical striking ability.

Energy projection isn't relevant here.
 

Rektash

Member
I reallly don't get these discussions. Characters in comic books are usually as arbitrarily strong as the writers want them to be in any given specific scene. There is no consistency, no physical limitations no proper guidelines they themselves follow. Superman punching wonderwoman to earth in seconds for example is completly laughable. You know why? He'd have to punch her so hard she flies of FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Light takes more than 8 minutes to travel the distance from sun to earth. If he can bend the physical laws of the universe like that, there is literally no reason to punch anyone as he would have way more efficient solutions than that at hand. Heck if he can accelerate something beyond the speed of light, timetravel should be easy for him.

What you guys do here is comparing arbitrarily chosen imbossibilities with other arbitrarily chosen impossibilities. It makes no sense. There is no frame of reference in which you can make a proper argument. The one that comes out on top of this battle is who the writer chooses to win.
 
I'm also laughing at the fact that people think Goku is a great character.

DB has always been piccolo and gohan for me. Goku is a horrible character. Early DB has sneaky krillin, tien and roshi who were all good.

I'm still waiting for an answer if Maxwell Lord could solo the DB universe.

Probably?

DB has never really explored telepathic powers in any great detail. No one's trained to rebuff such attacks that we've seen anyway
 
I've always had a sense that Goku had to work harder for his powers while Superman just sort of has his. Superman simply doesn't have the discipline that Goku has. Goku's dedication has also made him a much smarter fighter than Superman and he'd find a way to win.

I'd image Goku would grab Superman, transport him to a distant planet without a yellow sun, and beat him like a drum.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
DB has always been piccolo and gohan for me. Goku is a horrible character. Early DB has sneaky krillin, tien and roshi who were all good.

Probably?

DB has never really explored telepathic powers in any great detail. No one's trained to rebuff such attacks that we've seen anyway

Pretty much. Vegeta is also pretty good especially from his transformation from being an arrogant dick to a somewhat more humbled guy though it seemed Toriyama is keen on turning him back into a dick again.

Also I thought there were plenty of telepathy in early DB and DBZ.

I've always had a sense that Goku had to work harder for his powers while Superman just sort of has his. Superman simply doesn't have the discipline that Goku has. Goku's dedication has also made him a much smarter fighter than Superman and he'd find a way to win.

I'd image Goku would grab Superman, transport him to a distant planet without a yellow sun, and beat him like a drum.

Supes always has a discipline though. There's a reason for why the "world of cardboard speech" exists.
 
DB has always been piccolo and gohan for me. Goku is a horrible character. Early DB has sneaky krillin, tien and roshi who were all good.



Probably?

DB has never really explored telepathic powers in any great detail. No one's trained to rebuff such attacks that we've seen anyway

Actually Majin Vegeta completely resisted Babidi's mind control.

In fact, Vegeta voluntarily let himself be mind controlled so he could gain the Majin power up. At that point, under Babidi's control he completely resisted all orders and instructions and still had full control over himself despite the Majin powerup.
 
I always looked at it like this, if the two were equal in power and strength, then it will come down to skill. Goku is an MMA fighter and Superman is a soldier of sorts. In a combat match, the MMA fighter should win on paper, even if the soldier is better in all other aspects. One trains solely for fighting and the other doesn't even train to save the world.

Superman shouldn't be able to technically compete with Goku but Supes is hella broken so it doesn't matter.

Its really ridiculous. No contest, superman gets owned.
 

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
No, because the discussion was who was physically stronger. A poster admitted that Superman's lifting feats were drastically past Gokus, but doubted that translated to physical striking ability.

Thus examples of superman having absurd physical striking ability.

Energy projection isn't relevant here.
energy projection is tied to physical strength in dragonball, you are not seperate things. Goku gravity trained on the way to namek and was most certainly not tossing around his earth-level power in ki.

Furthermore Cooler didn't die from the blast that knocked him into the sun in seconds, he caught it and was pushing it back and hit the sun before he could stop it fully. So Cooler was able to tank the equivalent force that knocked wonderwoman out and cooler ain't shit.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
why are people assuming supes never train? holy shit lol

dude trained with Bats, Wondy, fucking Mongul, and even had mental training with J'onn!
 
I've always had a sense that Goku had to work harder for his powers while Superman just sort of has his. Superman simply doesn't have the discipline that Goku has. Goku's dedication has also made him a much smarter fighter than Superman and he'd find a way to win.

If you read stuff like "for the man who has everything" or "world war three", you'd see supes has tons of discipline. he needs it.

Also, superman has trained in tons of martial arts to make himself better even though he doesn't need to. Goku hasn't learnt anything new since DB began apart from ki techniques.

I'd image Goku would grab Superman, transport him to a distant planet without a yellow sun, and beat him like a drum.

Supes will last more then enough time to finish a fight even when away from a yellow star.

Also Goku would never do this. Fighting is his life so why would he ever make a fight easier?
 
I've always had a sense that Goku had to work harder for his powers while Superman just sort of has his. Superman simply doesn't have the discipline that Goku has. Goku's dedication has also made him a much smarter fighter than Superman and he'd find a way to win.

I'd image Goku would grab Superman, transport him to a distant planet without a yellow sun, and beat him like a drum.

Most of the time Superman is shown to be able to control his powers after practicing bit by bit growing up, which is why he's able to be so precise instead of crushing people's hands with a firm handshake.

And your example is ridiculous. You're assuming Goku would
a) somehow find out Superman's dependence on the sun
b) be able to somehow find a universe with a red sun
c) be able to hold on to superman long enough to imagine getting there
d) be able to beat superman before his cells were drained of solar energy
 
energy projection is tied to physical strength in dragonball, you are not seperate things. Goku gravity trained on the way to namek and was most certainly not tossing around his earth-level power in ki.

Furthermore Cooler didn't die from the blast that knocked him into the sun in seconds, he caught it and was pushing it back and hit the sun before he could stop it fully. So Cooler was able to tank the equivalent force that knocked wonderwoman out and cooler ain't shit.


Goku has routinely struggled with weight as an adult that superman would have laughed off as a toddler.

10X earth gravity? 100X? Superman bench presses the weight of the planet for days on end and hangs out in black holes.

Physically the two aren't comparable.
 
Actually Majin Vegeta completely resisted Babidi's mind control.

In fact, Vegeta voluntarily let himself be mind controlled so he could gain the Majin power up. At that point, under Babidi's control he completely resisted all orders and instructions and still had full control over himself despite the Majin powerup.

Wasn't that magic? I vaguely recall it only works on people with evil in their hearts?
 

Slayven

Member
Am I the only one that read Final Nigh? In it the sun gets eaten. And Superman was able to go a week before his power started dropping. A week of utter chaos on earth mind you, not like he was chilling in the crib

Final_Night_1.jpg
 
Am I the only one that read Final Nigh? In it the sun gets eaten. And Superman was able to go a week before his power started dropping. A week of utter chaos on earth mind you, not like he was chilling in the crib

Final_Night_1.jpg

was that the parallax(hal) one after zero hour?
 

Heroman

Banned
No, because the discussion was who was physically stronger. A poster admitted that Superman's lifting feats were drastically past Gokus, but doubted that translated to physical striking ability.

Thus examples of superman having absurd physical striking ability.

Energy projection isn't relevant here.

This goku strongest physical striking feat
4537183-2340008903-45338.gif

It a incredibly dense planet with 10 time the gravity of earth which would mean it would 10 times more mass than Earth. It would take a ton of power to do that attack. It was also done by one of weaker version of goku to.
 
Yeah he "redeemed" himself and started the road to his time as the Spectre

Also laid the ground work for Superman Blue and Ion

It's a shame really, coast city destruction to zero hour was probably the most interesting hal's ever been (snarking ollie in JLA Y1 aside), but I guess there really wasn't anywhere else to go with him being that powerful without any limitations.
 

ElFly

Member
Punching people into orbit and punching wonder woman back into earth only make the problem more obvious.

Those are not feats of strength; either superman would behead the victims of his orbit punching -this obvs does not happen- or there is something else at work.

Wonder Woman's crater -which appears a page later- is only a few meters wide. Cars around her are just wrecked around her, not pulverized; either she was punched at a few dozens of kilometers per second -in which case, she had a loooong time, as in several days, to imagine batman smiling smugly at her-, or the travel time was a few seconds, let's say 10, in which case, the crater should be stadium sized, and there'd be no cars around.

Since none of those options are true, something else happened. What exactly? The popular theory is Tactile Telekinesis. He is not really punching people. He is just pushing them around at arbitrary speeds, but those speeds do not take when they actually hit something else. What would happen if Goku were to be orbit punched to the sun and back? Goku would just stand up touching his chin saying "weird, that didn't hurt as much as it should have".

Goku on the other hand, does punch people. He doesn't punch people into orbit, true, but that is because if he did the victim would be horrible exploded.

3.) The anti monitor was a universe wrecker which was the point. he was eating universes at will like Galactus, but was massively more powerful. Considering how badly the "Beerus is just as powerful as Galactus!" argument you tried to make just went, I would let this go since it's obvious you know even less about the anti monitor than you do about Galactus.

The argument is not about how powerful the antimonitor is. The argument is "when the monitor and super girl duke it out, why doesn't the space fortress they are fighting in explode". If you see the damage around them, just a few walls collapse. They are both probably super resilient, but the environment around them is not, and their fight doesn't destroy it, and it is not even a planet sized place. Conclusion, they are not hitting hard. As the wonder woman punching example shows.

The same thing happens with Superman (or Bizarro's body) punching the other one through earth. The force needed would be massive, the entry crater would look way bigger. And Superman's body would go only so deep given he is not incredibly dense. Again, they are not punching each other, superman is just pushing the other one. Which is still strong, just not as strong as you are assuming to be.
 

Slayven

Member
It's a shame really, coast city destruction to zero hour was probably the most interesting hal's ever been (snarking ollie in JLA Y1 aside), but I guess there really wasn't anywhere else to go with him being that powerful without any limitations.

Don't tell Johns that.
 

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
Goku has routinely struggled with weight as an adult that superman would have laughed off as a toddler.

10X earth gravity? 100X? Superman bench presses the weight of the planet for days on end and hangs out in black holes.

Physically the two aren't comparable.
so you are backing away from your initial claim that being knocked to the sun is incomparable to anything that happens in DBZ?

and yes, dragonball is terribly inconsistent, but that doesn't mean the feats that did happen didnt. Goku will punch a mountain into dust and then struggle with 10 tons of weight on his arm, but that doesn't mean he didn't punch the mountain into dust. Furthermore DBZ just flat out doesn't have a setting where silly superscience could allow goku to train by benchpressing planets.
 
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