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[KHarvey16]

The rules seem to state that the ref is the soul judge of determining if a football complies with regulations. It doesn't specify anything about what happens in the event where they were wrong about an initial judgement if a team intentionally provided balls they knew shouldnt pass inspection.

Furthermore, as others have pointed out with specific quotes from the rulebook, there are enough broad rules about team and organizational behavior and not ruining the integrity of the game that very well could apply to this scenario and justify punishment.

Conduct and unfair action rules are entirely subjective, and to my mind having the referee check an underinflated ball or using any ball approved for use by a referee is not unfair. Again in my opinion the Patriots will not be punished if it turns out this is what happened.

Can you find a rule that states it is illegal to play with an underinflated ball?

You still have not answered why the other rules cited do not apply. I specifically cited Rule 17, Section 2, Article 3, Rule 17, Section 2, Article 1, and the Code of Conduct, for instance.

Because if that is what occurred what they did is not unfair.

 

[Spineker]

The Superbowl can't go ahead without a proper investigation, surely

 

[FaintColt388301]

I don't get why the refs are being brought up. They most likely didn't approve the deflated balls. They approve them at the beginning of the game and then the team has time there to play with them.

Then from there the balls are given to the personnel provided by the home team for the course of the game.

The refs could have easily been given passable balls only to have them deflated afterwards without knowing any better.

 

[Dicer]

I don't get why the refs are being brought up. They most likely didn't approve the deflated balls. They approve them at the beginning of the game and then the team has time there to play with them.

Then from there the balls are given to the personnel provided by the home team for the course of the game.

The refs could have easily been given passable balls only to have them deflated afterwards without knowing any better.

In front of a whole fucking stadium...C'mon son

 

[FuturusX]

In most sports around the world this would be an automatic disqualification from the current competition and a large fine in the very least, with suspensions for direct involvement. Their defeated opponents would be given their position in the next round.

That's the way it should be.

NFL is a joke.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Each team has their own set of balls. The Colts didn't handle Brady's balls until that INT.

But why did they wait until well after the game to check them, even after they knew something was up? You'd think that's the kind of thing that they may do at, say, halftime, before the balls would deflate on their own.

EDIT:

And you're thinking of college football. Both teams use the home team's balls, so Bellichick would have had to make sure the Colts had the one fully inflated ball on every play.

 

[cdyhybrid]

In front of a whole fucking stadium...C'mon son

Yes, because everyone is watching the ball boys.

In most sports around the world this would be an automatic disqualification from the current competition and a large fine in the very least, with suspensions for direct involvement. Their defeated opponents would be given their position in the next round.

That's the way it should be.

NFL is a joke.

Preach!

 

[FaintColt388301]

In front of a whole fucking stadium...C'mon son

Hasn't it been said that they have 45-90 minutes with the ball before turning it over to the personnel? I doubt all this happens on the field in front of the crowd and cameras.

But who am I to know. Funny how everybody is now an expert on the process of checking football weight.

 

[Tragicomedy]

The ball attendant is PAID by the team to track all approved footballs and test their pressure throughout the game. Are people honestly asking how they could deflate the balls in front of everyone? Who is watching them during the game? When has a camera ever focused on them placing the gauge on the balls and testing them?

I love the absurd attempts to transfer the blame on the refs here. The refs didn't knowingly deflate 11 footballs by 2 pounds each...

 

[Saint Gregory]

Each team has their own set of balls. The Colts didn't handle Brady's balls until that INT.

This thread gets my vote for most unintentionally lewd thread of the year.

Is it really unintended though?

 

[DarkFlow]

In most sports around the world this would be an automatic disqualification from the current competition and a large fine in the very least, with suspensions for direct involvement. Their defeated opponents would be given their position in the next round.

That's the way it should be.

NFL is a joke.

Unlike FIFA right?

 

[Dicer]

Hasn't it been said that they have 45-90 minutes with the ball before turning it over to the personnel? I doubt all this happens on the field in front of the crowd and cameras.

But who am I to know. Funny how everybody is now an expert on the process of checking football weight.

The details are online now because of this faux shitstorm..

 

[MechDX]

In front of a whole fucking stadium...C'mon son

Have you ever taken air out of a football? You basically just insert a needle into the air opening and it comes out. The ball boys hold the balls underneath towels in their arms since it was raining to keep them dry. Can easily be done and not be seen

 

[Duke Togo]

Patriots have to play the super bowl using:

A. Golf balls
B. Basketballs
C. Flaming goats head

 

[riotous]

Have you ever taken air out of a football? You basically just insert a needle into the air opening and it comes out. The ball boys hold the balls underneath towels in their arms since it was raining to keep them dry. Can easily be done and not be seen

And as Tragicomedy and others have pointed out they are supposed to be checking the pressure (throughout the game); while checking pressure it would be easy to deflate the balls.

It seems particularly suspicious that 11 of them were 2 pounds under.

The more details I read the more suspicious it seems.. but I had no clue until today the entire concept of anyone caring so much existed.

 

[Tragicomedy]

This thread gets my vote for most unintentionally lewd thread of the year.

Is it really unintended though?

No. We've been aware of Brady's deflated balls for years.

 

[PARTYNEXTDOOR]

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Still waiting for somebody to explain how this gave the Pats an unfair advantage when both teams use the same balls.

 

[riotous]

*snip*

Where is this person getting that they were "regular inflated" during the second half?

Were all the balls removed at half due to the complaint?

Wouldn't surprise me if it had no real affect on his stats either way. The main issue is conduct not the affect of the conduct IMO. A deflated ball isn't going to win the AFC championship by 30+ points.

 

[Tragicomedy]

Still waiting for somebody to explain how this gave the Pats an unfair advantage when both teams use the same balls.

For I believe the fortieth time in this thread: both teams play with a different set of balls.

They also didn't swap to regularly inflated balls at the half. Talk about a red herring. "Guys, check out unrelated statistics!"

 

[Dicer]

Have you ever taken air out of a football? You basically just insert a needle into the air opening and it comes out. The ball boys hold the balls underneath towels in their arms since it was raining to keep them dry. Can easily be done and not be seen

Sure and don't foget the air gauge so you don't over under inflate...

 

[Jonm1010]

Conduct and unfair action rules are entirely subjective, and to my mind having the referee check an underinflated ball or using any ball approved for use by a referee is not unfair. Again in my opinion the Patriots will not be punished if it turns out this is what happened.

Can you find a rule that states it is illegal to play with an underinflated ball?



Because if that is what occurred what they did is not unfair.

"It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing field."

One could make a reasonable case - coupled with any number of the broad rules that have been used to justify punishments in the past that were deemed to be violating the integrity of the game - that the patriots intentionaly failed in their responsibility to furnish playable balls in an attempt to gain an unfair advantage.

Given there is no specific rule that states the initial inspection is binding to all future inspections, I think you can make a case justifying punishing the patriots either by violating their responsibility to in good faith meet the requirements of providing footballs that comply with the regulations in place or based on the broad rules about conduct to punish the patriots. Assuming the NFL wants to.

 

[cdyhybrid]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B72XUM9IMAALwav.jpg[img][/QUOTE]

Remember everyone, it's okay to break the rules as long as it doesn't have an effect on the game!

 

[JABEE]

In most sports around the world this would be an automatic disqualification from the current competition and a large fine in the very least, with suspensions for direct involvement. Their defeated opponents would be given their position in the next round.

That's the way it should be.

NFL is a joke.

Damn straight.

 

[JABEE]

The ball attendant is PAID by the team to track all approved footballs and test their pressure throughout the game. Are people honestly asking how they could deflate the balls in front of everyone? Who is watching them during the game? When has a camera ever focused on them placing the gauge on the balls and testing them?

I love the absurd attempts to transfer the blame on the refs here. The refs didn't knowingly deflate 11 footballs by 2 pounds each...

You're a good man.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

For I believe the fortieth time in this thread: both teams play with a different set of balls.

No, that's college football. In the NFL they both use the home team's balls. The visiting team's are only used for backup.

 

[Hunter S.]

Hasn't it been said that they have 45-90 minutes with the ball before turning it over to the personnel? I doubt all this happens on the field in front of the crowd and cameras.

But who am I to know. Funny how everybody is now an expert on the process of checking football weight.

Pressure was the issue not weight. PSI or pounds per square inch. The football usually weighs 14- 15 ounces which is less than pound.

 

[Trey]

It's a shame because the Patriots have a pretty good system. I suppose every little edge counts, even if you toe the line. Can't help themselves but to cheat because the league will do shit all about it.

 

[KHarvey16]

"It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing field."

One could make a reasonable case - coupled with any number of the broad rules that have been used to justify punishments in the past that were deemed to be violating the integrity of the game - that the patriots intentionaly failed in their responsibility to furnish playable balls in an attempt to gain an unfair advantage.

Given there is no specific rule that states the initial inspection is binding to all future inspections, I think you can make a case justifying punishing the patriots either by violating their responsibility to in good faith meet the requirements of providing footballs that comply with the regulations in place or based on the broad rules about conduct to punish the patriots. Assuming the NFL wants to.

The referees determine if a ball is suitable for play. If it is, it's given to the attendants. That is saying the home team is responsible for having the attendants to hand out the approved balls on both sidelines.

 

[PARTYNEXTDOOR]

Aaron Rodgers and Eli Manning have both commented on getting overinflated footballs because they like their grip with them. Is there any press on that? Deflation and over-inflation are both against the rules, but you only see this become a topic when it's about the New England Patriots. Just give them their fine and move on with this. It had no effect on the game and statically they did better with the properly inflated balls. There's really no argument to be had here.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

No, that's college football. In the NFL they both use the home team's balls. The visiting team's are only used for backup.

Yeah no.

According to NFL rules, each team in NFL games makes 12 primary balls available for testing by the referee two hours and 15 minutes before kickoff. In addition, the home team makes 12 backup balls available. The visiting team can bring 12 backup balls in games played outdoors.

The balls are subbed in and out as possession changes.

 

[Tragicomedy]

I'll take comfort in knowing that only one team beat both Super Bowl contenders this season, by a combined 31 points.

Spoiler

We still lost one of two against the Raiders.

 

[Fletcher]

Beh

 

[FaintColt388301]

Sure and don't foget the air gauge so you don't over under inflate...

They don't need a air gauge mann. They have it all down based on time and pressure applied while deflating. They didn't think this up on game day. It was all planned and orchestrated. They hired a pro ball deflater. Check their budget.

 

[cdyhybrid]

No, that's college football. In the NFL they both use the home team's balls. The visiting team's are only used for backup.

Except that's wrong:

NFL rules require game balls to be inflated with between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds of air. Each team by rule must provide 12 “primary” footballs to the game official for testing and inspection 2 hours, 15 minutes before kickoff.

The home team also must provide 12 backup footballs, with the road team having the option of providing 12 backup balls of their own if the game is being played outdoors.

The advantage of an under-inflated football is it provides an easier grip for the quarterback and is easier for a receiver to catch. Balls could also be deflated after the official’s inspection because they are entrusted during the game to attendants hired by the home team.

During the game, each team uses the approved balls it provided when it is on offense.

http://nypost.com/2015/01/19/patriots-probed-by-nfl-for-cheating-in-afc-title-game/

 

[Tragicomedy]

No, that's college football. In the NFL they both use the home team's balls. The visiting team's are only used for backup.

Any other completely wrong info you care to add?

 

[DarkFlow]

No, that's college football. In the NFL they both use the home team's balls. The visiting team's are only used for backup.

Please look this up and come back. I'm sorry to tell you, but you're wrong.

 

[Juicy Bob]

Did this affect the outcome of the AFC title game? No.

Should the Patriots be disqualified from competing in the Super Bowl because of this? Probably not.

Does this only reaffirm that the Patriots are a bit of a dodgy bunch? Absolutely.

 

[PARTYNEXTDOOR]

Rather make the playoffs and cheat than be a trash ass eagles fan (who didn't even make the olayoff)

 

[Tragicomedy]

The referees determine if a ball is suitable for play. If it is, it's given to the attendants. That is saying the home team is responsible for having the attendants to hand out the approved balls on both sidelines.

Why are you purposefully ignoring the part where the attendant deflated 11 of 12 footballs by 2 pounds? Is that not cheating in your book because the ref previously witnessed then meeting standards?

Mental gymnastics are fun!

 

[ThatCrazyGuy]

Unlike FIFA right?

FIFA will always be more shit and corrupt than the NFL.

Why only 11 of the 12? Ballboy missed 1? Hehe

 

[cdyhybrid]

Rather make the playoffs and cheat than be a trash ass eagles fan (who didn't even make the olayoff)

You're finally accepting the cheating, we're making progress.

 

[Red Comet]

Belicheat MVP

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Yeah no.



The balls are subbed in and out as possession changes.

“The home club shall have 36 balls for outdoor games and 24 for indoor games available for testing with a pressure gauge by the referee two hours prior to the starting time of the game to meet with League requirements. Twelve (12) new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours prior to the starting time of the game. These balls are to be specially marked with the letter “k” and used exclusively for the kicking game.”

The balls are given to the refs two hours before the game. The refs are then in charge of the combined balls.

 

[KHarvey16]

Why are you purposefully ignoring the part where the attendant deflated 11 of 12 footballs by 2 pounds? Is that not cheating in your book because the ref previously witnessed then meeting standards?

Mental gymnastics are fun!

We aren't discussing a scenario in which the attendant modified the balls. We're discussing the specific case of the referees testing balls that were underinflated and allowing them to be used. Please pay attention.

 

[cdyhybrid]

The balls are given to the refs two hours before the game. The refs are then in charge of the combined balls.

See below:

Except that's wrong:



http://nypost.com/2015/01/19/patriots-probed-by-nfl-for-cheating-in-afc-title-game/

 

[thekad]

No surprise. Another asterisk.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

The balls are given to the refs two hours before the game. The refs are then in charge of the combined balls.

That's not how it works. If that was the case don't you think the NFL would have announced that and nipped this shit in the bud before it ever got started? The refs know exactly which were the Pats balls and which were the Colts balls. Each team uses their own.

 

[Tragicomedy]

The balls are given to the refs two hours before the game. The refs are then in charge of the combined balls.

No.

We aren't discussing a scenario in which the attendant modified the balls. We're discussing the specific case of the referees testing balls that were underinflated and allowing them to be used. Please pay attention.

There will always be some who try to downplay evil and try to spread the blame when it should be aimed quite specifically. You are serving that role in this thread.

 

[cdyhybrid]

KHarvey is going all-in with the Chewbacca defense.