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#DEFLATEGATE: Goodell never had any balls

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cdyhybrid said:
Oh no no no, you're not getting off that easily. Even if the refs blew their responsibilities, the fact still remains that the Pats tried (and succeeded in that hypothetical case) to sneak one by them.
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Which is what every other team in the league does on a weekly basis.

It's really strange how some people have a hard on for hating the Pats, even as the league openly admits they do similar things.
 
cdyhybrid said:
Oh no no no, you're not getting off that easily. Even if the refs blew their responsibilities, the fact still remains that the Pats tried (and succeeded in that hypothetical case) to sneak one by them.
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That is pretty much what Rodgers was saying. What do you think Aaron means when he says the refs deflate them?
 
This has been a learning experience for me. I can't believe the NFL doesn't just issue balls and allows these teams to continue on with their bullshit rituals of incredibly inflating balls or using balls with wear and tear. I think its all just a load a shit, everyone should use brand new balls and just deal with it.
 
Arc said:
Hahahahaha if you can't beat em, ban em. Loser attitude right there.

And this isn't college sports, it's a business. The NFL needs the Patriots and doesn't have that kind of power.
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The NFL doesn't "need" the Patriots. The NFL doesn't need any team. If you'd said three years ago that the Seahawks would become dominant, no one would have believed you -- there was no reason to believe it. Losing the Pats from the playoffs for a few seasons would do absolutely nothing to the NFL brand.

It isn't about not being able to beat them, it's about punishing and preventing flagrant cheating. It's no different than the crack down on domestic violence. You have to take a firm stand to prevent the Patriots from cheating again and clearly money and draft picks aren't it.
 
slit said:
Fine, they were not rolled over in 07, happy?

They just got denied a perfect season. Which has to hurt even worse.
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Ik0IwTX.jpg
 
TheLostBigBoss said:
Which is what every other team in the league does on a weekly basis.

It's really strange how some people have a hard on for hating the Pats, even as the league openly admits they do similar things.
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Let me know when every other team gets caught.

Yeah, I have no idea why people would hate a team that openly flaunts their arrogance while being caught cheating.

Big-E said:
That is pretty much what Rodgers was saying. What do you think Aaron means when he says the refs deflate them?
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I know exactly what he was saying. Let me know when he's been caught using one of those balls in a game.
 
Meier said:
The NFL doesn't "need" the Patriots. The NFL doesn't need any team. If you'd said three years ago that the Seahawks would become dominant, no one would have believed you -- there was no reason to believe it. Losing the Pats from the playoffs for a few seasons would do absolutely nothing to the NFL brand.

It isn't about not being able to beat them, it's about punishing and preventing flagrant cheating. It's no different than the crack down on domestic violence. You have to take a firm stand to prevent the Patriots from cheating again and clearly money and draft picks aren't it.
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I'm going to disagree with you on the domestic violence comparison. I think that's pretty off base. You may want to rethink that.
 
Meier said:
The NFL doesn't "need" the Patriots. The NFL doesn't need any team. If you'd said three years ago that the Seahawks would become dominant, no one would have believed you -- there was no reason to believe it. Losing the Pats from the playoffs for a few seasons would do absolutely nothing to the NFL brand.

It isn't about not being able to beat them, it's about punishing and preventing flagrant cheating. It's no different than the crack down on domestic violence. You have to take a firm stand to prevent the Patriots from cheating again and clearly money and draft picks aren't it.
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That firm stand was initially banning a player for only two games and then a whole season after the video leaked to the public. That in itself is double jeopardy and the exact opposite of a firm stand. Goodell doesn't know how to make firm stands.
 
The more I think about it, the more I think the Colts are the ones that messed with the Patriots balls. Look at the stats. The deflated balls were replaced after halftime, Brady lid up the Colts and outscored them 28 - 0.

It was the Colts all along. What better way to misdirect attention then claiming to be the one that discovered the deflated balls.
 
Everyone does it!!!

Except the Pats are the ones under investigation. Other teams are not. When they get caught or investigated let us know.

When the Saints got caught with bounty gate I heard the same BS.

Suspend Belichek from the SB and all of next season. Take away their #1 pick for this coming draft.
 
Meier said:
This didn't make the difference in the Colts game, but the NFL has to punish the Patriots severely. They have a flagrant history of cheating -- ban them from the playoffs for a significant period of time (2 seasons?).

A monetary fine is absolutely pointless and does nothing. Belichick's contract surely has a bonus of some amount ($500k - $1m) to cover anything along these lines by making it to the Super Bowl, so he has incentive to cheat from a monetary perspective -- it's a net loss of nothing effectively. A draft pick is only a major need if you're a bottom of the barrel team so taking one or two of those away is again, not going to prevent them from doing this again.

You have to hit them where it hurts and that is preventing playoff football.
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I love these types of reactions...the NFL isn't going to cut off it's nose to spite it's face.

The Patriots will certainly be punished and the severity of the punishment will be based on who the NFL finds responsible for this over the next couple of days. Could be something as simple as a $25,000 fine (minimum for this offense in the rule book) or something as severe as a larger fine alongside a lost draft pick.

At the end of the day, the NFL is a business and Goodell works for the NFL owners...none of whom are ready to set the precedent that a team can be banned from playoff contention, which would significantly hurt their bottom line if it happened to them.

The networks and advertisers would also be pissed if all of the Patriots' regular season games suddenly became meaningless. Even though they're a widely hated team, they're a draw for the league...when your team plays the most hated team in the league, everyone makes sure to tune in.
 
cdyhybrid said:
Let me know when every other team gets caught.

Yeah, I have no idea why people would hate a team that openly flaunts their arrogance while being caught cheating.



I know exactly what he was saying. Let me know when he's been caught using one of those balls in a game.
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...but your argument is the attempt is just as wrong as the act.

Or did you just happen to forget?
 
cdyhybrid said:
I know exactly what he was saying. Let me know when he's been caught using one of those balls in a game.
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We are talking about the speculative scenario where the refs ok'd underinflated balls. Aaron admits that the refs deflate his balls. If the refs don't deflate Aaron's balls, he would have been caught "cheating" if balls were measured after a game. The two scenarios are the same IF it is found out that the refs ok underinflated balls by accident.
 
TheLostBigBoss said:
...but your argument is the attempt is just as wrong as the act.

Or did you just happen to forget?
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That's correct, but you can't punish them until they've actually broken a rule. The rule is that you can't alter them after the refs inspect them, not that you have to bring every ball into the inspection at the exact psi.

Big-E said:
We are talking about the speculative scenario where the refs ok'd underinflated balls. Aaron admits that the refs deflate his balls. If the refs don't deflate Aaron's balls, he would have been caught "cheating" if balls were measured after a game. The two scenarios are the same IF it is found out that the refs ok underinflated balls by accident.
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All I'm seeing here is a lot of IFs. Hypotheticals are lame and just try to distract people from the issue at hand.
 
C00kie M0nster said:
The NFL is investigating the issue first reported by a Colts' reporter. It blew up to ESPN and other news organizations once the NFL announced their investigation.
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I'm pretty sure that Brady's interception by Jackson is what actually led to it. He told the equipment staff that the football felt deflated, who then reported it to Pagano, who then reported it to Grigson, who reported it to the NFL. Kravitz just caught wind of it and reported on it--he doesn't really have anything to do with the investigation itself.
 
Did we get to the "everyone does--"

TheLostBigBoss said:
Ok, so we know in the age of Terry Bradshaw that teams would doctor the ball, should we call into question all those games and call every team a cheating sack of shit?

We know the Panthers were warming the balls on the sideline via space heater in the division rounder, an act that was specifically against the rules, and they were given a warning.

We have Bucs QB admiting to bribing NFL personal in the 2003 SB (2002 season) to scruff up the footballs so he could have a better grip.

We know Aaron Rodgers likes to push the limits of max PSI and constantly tries to get the officials to get purposely illegal balls into play as they help him throw it with his larger hands.

Pats doctored the ball in a single game blow out and everyone loses their minds.
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Oh.
 
You can't ban them from the playoffs. You can suspend the coach for a year.

Forget next year. Start with the SB. And take away their first and second round picks.

What gets me is the arrogance this coaching staff/organization has. The NFL was already dealing from terrible PR with the whole domestic violence and AP incidents and these assholes constantly and consistently cheat.
 
effzee said:
Everyone does it!!!

Except the Pats are the ones under investigation. Other teams are not. When they get caught or investigated let us know.

When the Saints got caught with bounty gate I heard the same BS.

Suspend Belichek from the SB and all of next season. Take away their #1 pick for this coming draft.
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Death penalty to those who speed!
 
As far as I understand from what's been discussed this morning on ESPN, a lot of teams do this. It's still breaking an NFL rule, but it's never been discussed before until now.

I still hope my Seahawks crush the Pats, but I don't care too much about this. Fine them, take away draft picks, and let's move on.
 
Dragon said:
I'm going to disagree with you on the domestic violence comparison. I think that's pretty off base. You may want to rethink that.
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How is it any different? I'm not talking about the actions, I'm talking about how the NFL reacts. The change after the Ray Rice debacle is a firm stand. Rice was the tipping point for better or for worse -- this should be the tipping point for the Pats. The NFL only ever cares when it becomes a PR issue, sadly. You can't have the Pats making a mockery of the rules repeatedly. It makes the NFL look weak.
 
Hank Scorpio said:
Oh I thought the Colts were using the Patriots' balls.

What advantage does the underinflated ball have to the Patriots? Smaller target to intercept? More time onn the air? Or less maybe?
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I'm still not sure on the detail of which bals each team use. I thought they supplied their own but there are now conflicting stories.

However, D'qwell Jackson intercepted Brady and thought the ball felt softer than it should, so he told the equipment staff, which told the Colts HC, who then told the Colts GM, who reported it to the NFL.
 
timetokill said:
Nobody is saying the Colts would've won otherwise. It's beside the point.

You also can't put a point value on cheating.

That said, if they were going to beat the Colts anyway, why cheat?

It's because they're compulsive cheaters. Belichick can't help it. I don't think it's even just about winning for him. It's the sheer thrill of the cheat that gets him going.
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people keep talking about a history of cheating but as ive explained, Spygate was a bit more questionable.

If Patriots get found for the deliberate alteration of the balls here I think it is more clear cut that they were trying to get away with something.
 
Could you imagine if Jackson took the ball to his sideline and compared them after that. And then handed the ref the two balls so he could compare. And then the ref throws Belichick out of the game!

That would've been awesome.
 
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We know the balls were deflated, but not if it was intentional. Even if they were deflated prior to kick off it's the fuckin refs fault for not catching it when they were weighed.

Not to mentioned on every pats drive the refs handled the ball to spot it, to bring a new one out etc.

People and their blind hatred for the Pats are making them jump to conclusions.

You can tell I'm a pats fan, and if there is video evidence or something else that clearly shows the Pats intentionally deflated the balls then fine, I'll be super mad. But until then, on to the superbowl, NFL should continue investigating and the Media should fuckin chill
 
Tawpgun said:
We know the balls were deflated, but not if it was intentional. Even if they were deflated prior to kick off it's the fuckin refs fault for not catching it when they were weighed.
Not to mentioned on every pats drive the refs handled the ball to spot it, to bring a new one out etc.

People and their blind hatred for the Pats are making them jump to conclusions.

You can tell I'm a pats fan, and if there is video evidence or something else that clearly shows the Pats intentionally deflated the balls then fine, I'll be super mad. But until then, on to the superbowl, NFL should continue investigating and the Media should fuckin chill
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Oh I see, so it's okay to cheat as long as you're not caught red handed at the time.
 
Anton Sugar said:
I'm pretty sure that Brady's interception by Jackson is what actually led to it. He told the equipment staff that the football felt deflated, who then reported it to Pagano, who then reported it to Grigson, who reported it to the NFL. Kravitz just caught wind of it and reported on it--he doesn't really have anything to do with the investigation itself.
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chuckddd said:
No. The Indy reporter was first to find out about the investigation.
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I'm obviously aware of that. My comments were in direct response to how the media has handled this up to this point.
 
Let's be honest here. The only reason this is BIG news and not some blurb in the notes section of the local newspaper is because ESPN got an exclusive for the first time in years that's not 100% sensationalized.

ESPN used to be the home for breaking sports news stories but over the past 10 years they've shifted towards commentary that has gotten worse with each passing year.

The fact is, ESPN is using their reach to make this story far bigger than it is.

The deflated balls would have given both sides an advantage. Maybe the Pats' players knew about the deflated balls, but still I doubt that such an advantage would have given them much of an upside.

I guess at this point the story should run its ESPN news cycle course, but if the network really wants to go back to reporting stories that matter they should hire better reporters and less, inexperienced player analysts.
 
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