Fuz
Banned
And that doesn't even matter.
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Denuvo wants to convince you its DRM isn’t “evil”
- Thread starter Spyxos
- Start date
hybrid_birth
Gold Member
DRM = Devils Rights Management. Seems pretty evil to me.
Griffon
Member
Yup, that's the biggest example that anti-denuvo people use, and that's because capcom's own implementation was overdone, and the issue is during a non-interactive bee attack.
As I said, blown out of proportions.
I played and finished RE8 from day one on an old-ass 2016 computer, and it was a rock solid 60fps. I'm glad I got to play it in good conditions rather than dusting off the PS4 for shitty 30fps gameplay (that or spend 500$ on a PS5 for that one game).
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Barakov
Gold Member
They're doing a piss poor job.
Simply mentioning the name "Denuvo" among some gamers is pretty much guaranteed to get you an instant, strong reaction. Just look at the comment threads underneath any Ars article covering Denuvo and you'll see plenty of complaints about the DRM-enhancing anti-piracy technology.
But Huin stressed to Ars that he sees Denuvo as a positive force for the gaming community as a whole. "Anti-piracy technologies is to the benefit of the game publishers, [but also] is of benefit to the players in that it protects the [publisher's] investment and it means the publishers can then invest in the next game," he said. "But people typically don't think enough of that."
Aside from generalized philosophical discussions over whether DRM should exist at all, by far the most substantive complaints about Denuvo's tech are about its alleged impact on game performance. Sometimes these accusations come from the crackers themselves and have to be weighed against strong denials from Denuvo and the game's developer. Other times, the accusations come from game makers, like outspoken Tekken 7 Director Katsuhiro Harada, who said in a 2018 tweet thread that the game's "anti-tamper third-party middleware" (i.e., Denuvo) was responsible for "frame rate drops" in the game.
In the case of anti-tamper, I think there is a clear statement that there is no perceptible impact on gameplay because of the way we do things.
Irdeto COO of Video Game Steeve Huin
To get around that mistrust, Huin said Irdeto is working on a program that would provide two nearly identical versions of a game to trusted media outlets: one with Denuvo protection and one without. After that program rolls out, hopefully sometime in the next few months, Huin hopes independent benchmarks will allow the tech press to "see for yourself that the performance is comparable, identical... and that would provide something that would hopefully be trusted by the community."
Denuvo wants to convince you its DRM isn’t “evil”
COO says coming benchmarks will show anti-piracy tech has no performance impact.arstechnica.com
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
It doesn't stop piracy, so paying customers get an inferior experience than people that don't pay just to satisfy some dumbass executives.
Griffon
Member
But it does stop piracy.
Most new Denuvo games don't get pirated for months (and sometimes never).
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
nobody fucking wins in this discussion
so don't bother
i agree and disagree
it's fucked
KormaChameleon
Member
willothedog
Member
I firmly believe that Denuvo DRM goes beyond reasonable measures and falls into the realm of being downright evil. Here's why:
1. Unjustifiable Restrictions: Denuvo DRM imposes unnecessary restrictions on legitimate users. It often requires an active internet connection for the sole purpose of authentication, which means that gamers with unstable or no internet connection are left unable to enjoy their legally purchased games. It's unfair to penalize paying customers for the actions of a few pirates.
2. Performance Issues: Denuvo DRM has been criticized for its negative impact on game performance. The additional layer of encryption and constant background checks consume system resources, leading to increased load times, frame rate drops, and overall diminished gameplay experience. Gamers shouldn't have to sacrifice their performance for the sake of DRM.
3. Limited Lifespan: Denuvo DRM often boasts about being "uncrackable" initially, but it's only a matter of time before hackers find ways to bypass it. Unfortunately, the presence of Denuvo DRM can outlive its usefulness, leaving paying customers stuck with a crippled version of the game long after it has been cracked. It feels like a punishment to those who actually support the developers by purchasing the game.
4. Trust Issues: The implementation of Denuvo DRM raises concerns about privacy and security. It requires deep access to the user's system, which can lead to potential vulnerabilities and compromises. The idea of third-party software having such invasive control over our devices is unsettling, especially when its effectiveness is already questionable.
5. Inconvenience for Modding and Preservation: Denuvo DRM often complicates the modding scene and preservation efforts. It hinders the ability to modify and enhance games, limiting the creativity and freedom of the gaming community. Moreover, once the DRM servers go offline or support is dropped, it becomes nearly impossible to run those games, potentially leading to the loss of cultural artefacts and gaming history.
While I understand the need for developers to protect their intellectual property, the implementation of Denuvo DRM seems to be an excessive and harmful approach. It punishes legitimate customers, compromises performance, and raises privacy concerns, all while offering temporary, rather than long-lasting, protection against piracy.
1. Unjustifiable Restrictions: Denuvo DRM imposes unnecessary restrictions on legitimate users. It often requires an active internet connection for the sole purpose of authentication, which means that gamers with unstable or no internet connection are left unable to enjoy their legally purchased games. It's unfair to penalize paying customers for the actions of a few pirates.
2. Performance Issues: Denuvo DRM has been criticized for its negative impact on game performance. The additional layer of encryption and constant background checks consume system resources, leading to increased load times, frame rate drops, and overall diminished gameplay experience. Gamers shouldn't have to sacrifice their performance for the sake of DRM.
3. Limited Lifespan: Denuvo DRM often boasts about being "uncrackable" initially, but it's only a matter of time before hackers find ways to bypass it. Unfortunately, the presence of Denuvo DRM can outlive its usefulness, leaving paying customers stuck with a crippled version of the game long after it has been cracked. It feels like a punishment to those who actually support the developers by purchasing the game.
4. Trust Issues: The implementation of Denuvo DRM raises concerns about privacy and security. It requires deep access to the user's system, which can lead to potential vulnerabilities and compromises. The idea of third-party software having such invasive control over our devices is unsettling, especially when its effectiveness is already questionable.
5. Inconvenience for Modding and Preservation: Denuvo DRM often complicates the modding scene and preservation efforts. It hinders the ability to modify and enhance games, limiting the creativity and freedom of the gaming community. Moreover, once the DRM servers go offline or support is dropped, it becomes nearly impossible to run those games, potentially leading to the loss of cultural artefacts and gaming history.
While I understand the need for developers to protect their intellectual property, the implementation of Denuvo DRM seems to be an excessive and harmful approach. It punishes legitimate customers, compromises performance, and raises privacy concerns, all while offering temporary, rather than long-lasting, protection against piracy.
night13x
Member
Imagine buying a denuvo infested game and gladly and cheerfully ask to be thrown into jail as a legit buyer.
My issue with the little D is not about the part of companies wanting to protect their IP, but the absolute performance shit it brings and as a steam deck user - proton switching will lock you out of your game that you bought legally.
Also the denuvo supporting idiots defense of "if you don't support denuvo then you must be a pirate" is outdated and stupid.
Treat customers with respect and customers will do the same in return.
My issue with the little D is not about the part of companies wanting to protect their IP, but the absolute performance shit it brings and as a steam deck user - proton switching will lock you out of your game that you bought legally.
Also the denuvo supporting idiots defense of "if you don't support denuvo then you must be a pirate" is outdated and stupid.
Treat customers with respect and customers will do the same in return.
Fluffytheterrible
Neo Member
Denuvo is a cancer on Steam
samjaza
Member
Yeah, there is a bunch of games I want to buy, but wont because of Denuvo.
I'm not going to pirate, i'll just not play those games.
And nothing of value was lost.
Agent_4Seven
Tears of Nintendo
Mitsurugi Reiji
Member
Disco Dave
Member
Denuvo should approach Alex Battaglia to make a video entitled "13 ways for lazy developers to optimise for Denuvo".
Kadve
Member
The thing about software pirates is that they are gonna pirate the software no matter what. If they cant pirate it they more likely to just ignore the game in question
In other words. Pretty sure Denuvo is not a contributor when it comes to sales. Its a negative one if anything as it impacts the people legitimately buying the game too. Not to mention all those people using pirated copies as a form of demo (anyone who remembers the Titan Quest controversy knows what im talking about).
(a similar thing also exists in the art communities. Artists going on crusades against leakers or more likely to gain less legitimately followers as you are perceived as a diva who hates your own fanbase)
In other words. Pretty sure Denuvo is not a contributor when it comes to sales. Its a negative one if anything as it impacts the people legitimately buying the game too. Not to mention all those people using pirated copies as a form of demo (anyone who remembers the Titan Quest controversy knows what im talking about).
(a similar thing also exists in the art communities. Artists going on crusades against leakers or more likely to gain less legitimately followers as you are perceived as a diva who hates your own fanbase)
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I mean, of course it's not made to be "evil". It's to prevent piracy, which is a completely reasonable thing for a publisher to want to do. The problem is when it causes a worse gaming experience for people who purchase a legitimate copy of the game than those who download a cracked illegal copy. Which I don't know if it does, but that's what I keep hearing.
winjer
Gold Member
Pirates are rarely affected by DRM. Most games are cracked as soon as they release. Some are cracked even before it unlocks for paying customers.
Of course there are a few that take a few months to be cracked. But these are the exception.
And the worst part is that pirates quite often get a better version, as they don't have to deal with online activations, limits on hardware changes, etc. Sometimes, they even get better performance.
There have been cases where DRM was so draconian, that paying customers had to resort to cracks, so they could play the game they bought.
I can't think of any other industry that actively punishes paying customers. While pirates get a better version. So yes, DRM is evil.
MrStauf
Banned
Only two denuvo games have been cracked in 2023 Hogwarts Legacy and RE4.
Only Dying light 2 was cracked last year with denuvo. F1 22 wasn't technically cracked because a unprotected .exe was leaked.
Denuvo is very effective, people who think denuvo games are cracked as soon as they are released are living in cloud cuckoo-land.
Only Dying light 2 was cracked last year with denuvo. F1 22 wasn't technically cracked because a unprotected .exe was leaked.
Denuvo is very effective, people who think denuvo games are cracked as soon as they are released are living in cloud cuckoo-land.
{insert code here}
Member
Clickbait headline.
There's plenty of evil things in the world but DRM is not one of them. Go outside and touch some grass.
There's plenty of evil things in the world but DRM is not one of them. Go outside and touch some grass.
Wildebeest
Member
Wrong. A lot of bad things just happen because they happen, and nobody is to blame. But DRM is a bad thing consciously inflicted on people just because it can be done and got away with, therefore it is true evil.
NoLootBoxDev
Member
As a solo developer, I can say those who pirate games are not my customers, they won't change that due to multiple reasons, they could be from a poor country and it is the only way to play them, they do not care about the developer's future, and many other reasons.
People who compare Cracked denuvo games vs denuvo game are idiots. Cracker dont remove denuvo they only trick it.
The reason sond cracks run better is because the devs put in denuvo and inhouse protection at the same time. Village for example there the devs fucked up.
Denuvo costs only a few % performance abd loading time if properly implemented.
Always online is much more of a cancer.
The reason sond cracks run better is because the devs put in denuvo and inhouse protection at the same time. Village for example there the devs fucked up.
Denuvo costs only a few % performance abd loading time if properly implemented.
Always online is much more of a cancer.
StereoVsn
Member
Denuvo though essentially is "always online" in a sense. You have to check in periodically so when those servers expire, a lot of games will go belly up.
Guilty_AI
Member
Pasta la Vista
Member
Agreed that Denuvo is shit, but I don't need this jackass shills opinion about anything. This guy makes the most useless gaming content.
Spyxos
Gold Member
Unfortunately, he was the only one who has addressed the issue.
Pasta la Vista
Member
The only one that addressed what issue? The article in question? Or the issue with Denuvo? Because I can gurantee you, if you are referring to the latter, he is not some pioneer "breaking ground" on why Denuvo is shit.
Spyxos
Gold Member
Currently talking about Denovo and its problems. Otherwise, I have not seen any that do not have more than a few thousand subscriptions and the videos are not really watchable or talk more about piracy than Denovo.
Pasta la Vista
Member
So this is his "reaction" video to the article in question. This guy has no ideas, opinions or content that he doesn't snipe from other sources. Totally useless hack.
ZoukGalaxy
Member
People finding justification for Denuvo are idiots, Denuvo IS a cancer, making pay honest people for a stupid and useless protection: game are still cracked (bypassed if you prefer, no one cares) and pirates still gets the best version: that's ridiculous.
Nobody cares also if it's devs fault if performance are hurted, result is the same for players. Denuvo is always online. Denuvo does not allow game preservation once the servers are offline.
I really hope one day EU or any "major politic" will look into this problem and create a law or regulate all this mess (like the USB C port or the mandatory user replaceable smartphone battery) by forcing any publishers to always offer a way to get your offline full installer of any puchased and downloaded game for people buying a game online, like with GOG, and including consoles. To be always able to reinstall your games at anytime with offline servers or not.
TL;DR: Denuvo is a pure shitshow from the same people with a different name who did SecuROM more than a decade ago.
That's an absolutely brilliant and comprehensive summary.
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Yes but in most cases Denuvo is simply not an issue. Only Pirates crying they are not getting their free game.
i d
i dont like it either nor am i defending it but people overreact a bit too much imo.People finding justification for Denuvo are idiots, Denuvo IS a cancer, making pay honest people for a stupid and useless protection: game are still cracked (bypassed if you prefer, no one cares) and pirates still gets the best version: that's ridiculous.
Nobody cares also if it's devs fault if performance are hurted, result is the same for players. Denuvo is always online. Denuvo does not allow game preservation once the servers are offline.
I really hope one day EU or any "major politic" will look into this problem and create a law or regulate all this mess (like the USB C port or the mandatory user replaceable smartphone battery) by forcing any publishers to always offer a way to get your offline full installer of any puchased and downloaded game for people buying a game online, like with GOG, and including consoles. To be always able to reinstall your games at anytime with offline servers or not.
TL;DR: Denuvo is a pure shitshow from the same people with a different name who did SecuROM more than a decade ago.
That's an absolutely brilliant and comprehensive summary.
MMaRsu
Banned
Why?
Games are selling more than they ever have. Those few thousands pirates aren't going to buy the game if it has DRM.
Games without DRM have record selling numbers.
Look at The Witcher 3, Elden Ring. No DRM to speak of.
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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
If the green idiots would be for anything, they could make a righteous deed and simply say "Denuvo makes the games run worse, people are buying more power hungry components, more e-waste, ban that shit".
Because outside of Sony BMG, have there ever was a court for copy protection against the issuer?
...and sadly the company is from Austria, which obviously makes it more difficult, since its a member state of EU senate and that would probably made quite a fuzz.
But it is evil, it's the current day Starforce actually, so super evil.
Because outside of Sony BMG, have there ever was a court for copy protection against the issuer?
...and sadly the company is from Austria, which obviously makes it more difficult, since its a member state of EU senate and that would probably made quite a fuzz.
But it is evil, it's the current day Starforce actually, so super evil.
Astray
Gold Member
It does mitigate it very heavily though. Like it or not, the PC marketplace for games has been rebuilt through DRM (1st through Valve's own DRM, and then companies like Irdeto), if there was no meaningful DRM then I guarantee you that you won't see day and date AAA game releases, let alone any AAA releases coming to PC.
Look at a game like Hogwarts Legacy, that game had a dedicated DRM hacker try their hardest to break it, and it was, but that came after WB got their full preorder window orders in (and then some). That's actually a business success for Irdeto and their Denuvo product.
Notorious game cracker has removed Denuvo from Hogwarts Legacy after just two weeks
Game cracker "Empress" has once again achieved the impossible. After a brief beta period managed through her Telegram channel, the notorious hacker has released a "cracked" version...
www.techspot.com